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> The ASF Off Topic Forum / the BST Area / Maturity & Post Quality lately, email sent to all members on 10/03/09
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aznriptide859
post Oct 4 2009, 06:41 PM
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Regarding BST, I actually support the fee. I don't pay it ATM, since I don't use ASF to sell that many products I have, but for such a small price, you reach such a large population of the airsoft market. If you can't even afford such a low fee, then you shouldn't be airsofting. I paid an ad fee on ASR (same fee as on ASF), but I use that a bit more since I stay on ASR more (don't start ASR flames, please).

I feel ASF should drop SOA completely, as it's confusing, unneeded, and almost unused. I checked it one day last month - there were barely 100 auctions out in the airsoft section, and less than 5 bids on all the items, which is pretty pathetic IMO. ASF's FS section gains a huge reader number every day (hell, even when I go on ASF it's usually the sale section I check first), and that should be sufficient to provide ASF with a large reader base.

Also, as a suggestion to admins, I feel like you guys should keep a clear mind to suggestions (some do, I'm addressing those that might not). I remember I actually suggested to Hydralover regarding the BST "bump thread ban", as I showed him how Arnie's system worked (it has been revamped since). I know Hydralover presented this to the mods, but a few of them, I was told, were heavily against it and were closed to suggestions/ideas. I'm not saying that this forum needs change, I'm simply saying that the mods should open their minds more; I can see this is starting to happen with a lot of the admin threads.


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admin
post Oct 4 2009, 07:01 PM
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thank you aznriptide859, let me think on some of that - you make some good points. SOA is better suited to handle transactions but you're right there is little traffic there. It's a real catch22 cause you got to have tons of listings to inspire participation but you have to have the member base to cause the listings and people are hesitant to join if there are few listings.

I'm not sure how to cause both to happen simultaneously (lots of listings and lots of participation) there, so I don't know what to do with it. I thought by causing asf members to use it, it would pickup but people refuse for reasons unknown to me. http://www.sportsonlyauction.com have you have input on why, please advise.

thanks


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Thumper69
post Oct 4 2009, 07:10 PM
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To be fair, I've had more decent deals than ones go bad on here. even now I have a gun somewhere out there from a trade. My wife didn't want to pay to get a tracking number and now I'm left dealing with it.. it happens. NOTHING we mods do will end every bump, every scammer and every trouble maker. I am on VERY good terms with ASB and if I see a scammer there I alert staff here and vice versa. I do this to help ALL airsofters. We are going to have younger members on here. I try as others do to guide them. We ourselves started somewhere. And its true of them as well. With work and changes I think we're a great site. I try to make sure that people see that ACM or cheaper guns aren't bad, they are different. And some of those guns hold up VERY well with little work.


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BushmanSniper
post Oct 4 2009, 08:49 PM
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whats up guys? havent been on in forever but figured I would give my input. I didnt leave the forum just to set that straight. I am just extremely busy with work and school....and my g36K project but anyways. I was sad to hear the off topic forum moved to elite only BUT it is almost a certain guarantee that it will cut down on the 4 year old ZOMG LOOK AT THIS YOU TUBE COMMENT/FUNNIEST JOKE FREAKIN EVAR!!! which quite frankly get boring very fast and in my honest opinion just take up bandwidth. its ok to joke around or just chat in a thread but sometimes younger members go overboard. but its expected. it is a public forum. you will always have this problem. its just time for some people to grow up. if they only came here for the OT Forum then they are here for the wrong reason. this is an AIRSOFT FORUM we are here to talk about AIRSOFT AND ITS RELATED TOPICS. it is ok for some joking though. the people that are getting mad at this are in fact the ones that are not mature. if they really want to stick around and be a elite member then props to them. I personally cannot go in the OT forum because I am not an elite member even though I have been around for a long time. just a note to admin or any other mods, maybe a person by person check can be in order. say any members that have been around for a while, but are not elite members. I don't feel like post whoring just to get into a forum so its just a suggestion :)

now onto another topic: BST

....this sh1t is getting old. people join forums to sell something and leave. they have no credibility because we don't know them. and without restrictions in the BST people can join at random. but the new style of going through steps to get it for free, or having the choice of paying to sell. this helps cut down on spammers greatly! most spammers are too lazy to go through all the steps to do it for free. and they will DEFFINETLY not pay to sell because that means less profit for them(basic economics). this falls into the same list as the OT forum. if you joined here just to sell then go put it on craigslist or ebay. if you don't like it then **** off. this is just one corner of the internet even though we are the third largest forum. there are many places to go. nobody is making you stay here. I say keep the BST the way it is. I personally don't plan on selling anything anytime soon...really don't wanna get rid of the 550 fps g36 hehe. but if I ever do decide to sell I will take the free route and post it on that other forum...


Ban Happy Mods:

they don't need to be a mod. end of story. ill fight you every step of the way on this. ill call you out on here, doesnt bother me one bit. just shows those mods like that use the internet to make up for the balls they don't have between their legs(I apologize if we have any female moderators, havent been here in forever). but thats how I see it. u wanna ban me for fighting it go ahead. admin will see both sides of it and he has the final say when it comes down to it.

if a user is posing an obvious spamming/post whoring problem then yes they should receive a temporary 24 hr ban. if they continue, 3 days. if a third offense is made admin should deal with it himself and even consider an indefinite ban on that member


new mods:

I think this is a good idea. even one for the OT forum would do a great job. even two if need be. I would almost stretch to say I would try that before making it a elite only section. but the mods overseeing it need to be open to funnies and such instead of hating the OT all together.

I cant really think of anything else that I would like to touch on so ill come back or send admin an email and have him put it in. but ill try to come around more often. but like I said im swamped with work and school and school takes priority over everything ATM. since im on here id like to give a should out to the mods and a few members in particular that I havent talked to in forever:

Opsic66(whom I wish I had of bought the m14 from :( )
KillaPretzel
All The Mods who have done a great job of keeping this place clean
Admin/s for overseeing such a huge forum and doing it so greatly
Spudenator
Kryozen
StealthMaster(I think thats the username)
I know I forgot some ppl so don't get butthurt over it. ill add it if I remember.

well thats about all I can say for now. ill try to poke my head in from time to time and ill be back on this winter a lot.

-BushmanSniper a.k.a. SpeedDemon a.k.a. Dave


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Thatkidfromfl
post Oct 4 2009, 09:31 PM
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I applied for the Elite section before the OT section got moved there. And then the day it moved there, there were about 10 Applications...all from that one day. and the worst part is, Alot of them who applied solely for the OT section got approved before me. Now Ill admit, the OT section getting moved there made me want it more(To be an elite member that is). but I applied on september 3rd if my memory serves me correclty

About the post quality. I do not have a high post count like some other people who have been here less time than me, mainly because, alot of questions asked can only really have 1 answer, and I personally see no need to post the same thing as 4 other guys pointing out the problem or solution or opinions. So in a way, I do keep the post quality up in my opinion.

Just my 2 cents.


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goldeneye007airs...
post Oct 4 2009, 09:38 PM
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How about we go halfway, and do this.

users- Stop complaining. This forum is PERFECT for it's purpose, AIRSOFT! We don't NEED a BST, or OT forum. It's a provate forum, and admin has the right to say WHATEVER he wants to.

Staff- Stop flaming anyone for voicing their opinion. We do have some right to speech. I say just let it go, everyone.


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Fricken Hamster
post Oct 4 2009, 10:51 PM
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The name does play a huge role in your community. googling "Airsoft Forums" will bring up 2 links to this site as the first results. Googling "Airsoft Boards" will being up 2 links to this site as the second and third results. The first result is just a subforum in a huge site. Most members find sites using search engines, or by recommendation of a friend. People will stick with any decent site. Thus, this site has the biggest influx of members, most of whom will stick with this site. Among those members, you have people of varying maturity level, meaning you are bound to get trolls and contributors.

And then there's the BST. Maybe you guys did cut down on scams, and maybe you did stop those onetime alts from using your site as a focused classified ads column, but most people do not care. If you've been spammed, of course you would support any measures to reduce scamming, but most people haven't been scammed yet. People don't like to do extra work. Don't think just because someones been a member of this site for so long they would go through extra steps or pay money. This :pain: drives people away. I have a friend who wanted to sell his stuff so he could buy new gear from HK on his vacation. He hated SOA and would come bug me like 5 times a day telling me he hated SOA and the wait time. After that, he just left the site.
Maybe the changes did cut down on spam, but you are serving the minority, and when you do that, expect loss.


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QUOTE (serano @ Apr 10 2009, 07:56 AM) *
airsoft is a fashion show, the winner is the best looking, and hey if you look good then you feel good and thats what airsoft is about having fun and being with cool people

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Tux
post Oct 4 2009, 10:51 PM
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Bushmansniper:

Your idea on how things work is great and all but that "proceedural" mindset that you have is what causes some big issues sometimes. People just need to accept the punishments they get on here. I have had people post something HORRIBLE on their first offense, had them suspended and they complained about me "not following proceedures". That crap ticks me off. We, the staff of ASF, reserve the right to act accordingly to the situation. Any proceedures we put out there are general guidlines for the most common issues -- not every issue.

Now if people see that a mod may be abusing their powers they have the right AND ABILITY to bring it up with another admin/mod via PM. Going haywire and posting retaliating topics across the publicity of the forum is NOT the way to go about a greivance issue. All that does is get you banned.

Now to tie this up to the off-topic forum issue:

The environment of that forum has made things ever so complicated for mods. We have to deal with and manage a different ball field. Members in off-topic are very ... liberal about what they post. Pointless crap like "lol ok" is normal in there. So yeah, you can't blame us for wanting to go crackdown on everyone.


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Paisley Pirate
post Oct 4 2009, 10:54 PM
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Hey everyone,

Lookit,

The whole BST thing was not a "get rich quick" scheme as some have suggested... it was to weed out the riff raff that seem to have come out of the woodwork with the tough times and rip people off. Heck, I even had someone try to rip me off... it was resolved with some force multiplication that I'd rather not go into right now... multiply that by a rather large number... it got ugly. Used to be, you could trust your fellow airsofters, now, unfortunately, seems like everyone's a scammer... So, Admin tried to remedy it.

AFA other sites and "better" information... yeah... you keep telling yourselves that... I don't buy it. I've gone from neophyte to enthusiast to store owner in airsoft over the last few years... I've been inside more guns than most of you have ever seen (including you guys who have been to the "big" ops... my partner and I rebuilt a PALLET of AK's in 2 days once... You know how many guns are on a pallet???? Yeah, A LOT. I get crap answers on Arnies when I can't find answers here.

Someone mentioned a local area website having more going on... yes... our local sites go up in summer, because we serve the local area, and have more local traffic to run the local ops, meets, etc... ASF is bigger picture than that (although the local set ups can be accomplished, most groups tend to have their own local sites... so be it) so the cycle for posts, etc is different here than elsewhere.

As far as they guy saying he could find nothing on WA guns , WTF? Do you read this site? I think you are trying to cause trouble, and as Admin pointed out, there are 11 pages of WA info (including a pinned how to section in the GBB section... duh) You just made yourself look stupid to anyone with an IQ over about 20...

When I bought my last 2 "classic" guns, it was through, (you guessed it) our BST area. I have some really cool guns that are pretty little wall hangers that I wouldn't skirm with on a bet (they are too valuable) . the info in the classic area is great.

Here's my take on some of this stuff.

Airsoft as a hobby is changing. We are having more challenges getting some of the products in, and at the same time there are some really really cool things coming down the supply pipeline... The supply lines have never really gotten back to the pre-2008 Olympics levels as far as I am concerned... and they may NEVER get there... so that means that we are dealing with higher prices, more headaches getting the guns we want, and more hassle in getting them to work right if they have some (inevitable) strange issues... Right now, the database of how to make any airsoft gun you got shoot better is already in place. The mission that Admin charged ASF with lo those many years ago is accomplished... to whit, making the best repository of information regarding airsoft on the web. Done. You don't like it, or doubt me... name what you wanna know, and I'll bet I can find a thread or an article regarding it.

OK, on to the Off Topic area.... guys, I was AGAINST it in the beginning and I am AGAINST it now, and I'll continue to be so... why? Because this site is about AIRSOFT and MIL-SIM... not talking about the size of a members genitalia (or lack of it) or other immature things like that. We have a younger audience here, and it just bugs me how disrespectful, rude and stupid some of our members can be... and it seems to me that the OTF just compounds the problem. You wanna act stupid like that, go on 4chan, I hear they love you little twits over there something awful (and wrong and probably that's why you use our OTF because you can't run with the big boys there)

OK, I am being a bit acerbic, and a little tired and cranky from playing a full day of airsoft in the weeds (which was awesome, even though my team lost EVERY FRIGGIN GAME a-laugh.gif ) but I think you get the points...

Remember, ASF is not a huge "Money Making Machine" its been accused of, (I know Admin wishes it were, and I think it would be great if it were, too, because I am a CAPITALIST! and Capitalism is Good....) but you know what? I am accosted over and over again by websites wanting me to pay .99 for a song or a (gag) ring-tone... or $49.95 a year for their "Members Only" area (whether it be guns, politics or even a comedy act) so the value of supporting a fun hobby of mine like ASF for free is awesome (so you gotta jump 2 or 3 hoops, get over it...)

Maybe those are the words... Get Over It. Stuff changes, roll with it.

Paisley Pirate

PS, missed GoldenEyes comment regarding staff (I guess that includes me) flaming people for their opinions... please note, while I did note a couple of people (as have others) generally what has been stated are facts to dispute either lies, mischaracterizations, or misperceptions made by those members...

My twits comments.... well, if the twit hat fits, wear it, otherwise, well, don't. Not everyone here is a twit.. in fact 99% of the members here are AWESOME... there are a few who, well, aren't... That's the way it goes...

PP

This post has been edited by Paisley Pirate: Oct 4 2009, 10:57 PM


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apache137
post Oct 4 2009, 11:02 PM
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im just gonna chime in again and say that I really see no reason to have this thread, as these problems arent really noticeable....

my only complaint is that when an experienced or older forum member tries to set a new guy straight, the mods get overly officious at times.

or a specific incident that irked the heck outta me, when I offered what I truly believed to be a reasonable offer, I got a temp ban and was sent a pm saying that "You know you were lowballing" I forgot who it was and I hold no grudge, but that stuff is what will bring this board down faster than these "problems"

if a seller can ask whatever he wants, then cant a buyer offer whatever he wants... it shouldnt be up to mods to detirmine that ....
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aznriptide859
post Oct 4 2009, 11:11 PM
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For people who complain about ban happy mods, there are two situations:

1. The mod feels he has power, and abuses it by banning those who oppose is personal views.
2. The mod uses power to keep the forum users in check.

Honestly, most cases are the 2nd, while there may be a few that are the 1st. The mods are simply doing their job, and removing those who either are either detrimental to the forum community, or do not post/contribute anything positive or useful.

You have no idea how hard it is to be a mod. These people spend time out of their working day, when they have families, jobs, personal issues, and financial things to worry about, to help ensure a good community on ASF. I've been told this many times on ASR, and I seriously appreciate what moderators do. I do sit around the forums a lot, and at a certain time wished to be a moderator; however, I feel that I cannot commit the extra time and effort to monitor a community of over 30,000 people, and shouldn't have that much power. If you really want to be a mod, I dare you to try it - it's more work than you think, so you should appreciate what mods do for you.

The reason some are strict (which is partly why I do spend more time on ASR) is that it keeps the forums CLEAN and CIVILIZED. If no strict rules are in place, forums will become rampant. Then again it's the internet, so anything could happen. Moderators are in place to keep posts and members in check so they don't violate, if any, laws or state something offensive to other members. The forums need to stay clean and proper, and that's what a moderator's job is.

I do oppose to a few of the mods' policies, I.e. when the "Against ASR" thread popped up, a LOT of members voiced their negative opinions towards another forum. In example, ASR does not allow ANY of such talk regarding other forums, and this in a sense has kept the hostilities down at ASR. I'm not saying that ASF is inferior, but that you guys should set certain rules that do not allow "flame" threads against other forums, members, or other such internet communities.

In summary, I'm simply saying - STOP COMPLAINING. ASF is a community not just for you, but for thousands of other people - keep it clean, follow the rules that are set by mods, and learn how to interact with other members. If you don't like the rules here, don't flame - LEAVE.


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Tux
post Oct 5 2009, 12:07 AM
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QUOTE (aznriptide859 @ Oct 5 2009, 12:11 AM) *
For people who complain about ban happy mods, there are two situations:

1. The mod feels he has power, and abuses it by banning those who oppose is personal views.
2. The mod uses power to keep the forum users in check.

Honestly, most cases are the 2nd, while there may be a few that are the 1st. The mods are simply doing their job, and removing those who either are either detrimental to the forum community, or do not post/contribute anything positive or useful.

You have no idea how hard it is to be a mod. These people spend time out of their working day, when they have families, jobs, personal issues, and financial things to worry about, to help ensure a good community on ASF. I've been told this many times on ASR, and I seriously appreciate what moderators do. I do sit around the forums a lot, and at a certain time wished to be a moderator; however, I feel that I cannot commit the extra time and effort to monitor a community of over 30,000 people, and shouldn't have that much power. If you really want to be a mod, I dare you to try it - it's more work than you think, so you should appreciate what mods do for you.

The reason some are strict (which is partly why I do spend more time on ASR) is that it keeps the forums CLEAN and CIVILIZED. If no strict rules are in place, forums will become rampant. Then again it's the internet, so anything could happen. Moderators are in place to keep posts and members in check so they don't violate, if any, laws or state something offensive to other members. The forums need to stay clean and proper, and that's what a moderator's job is.

I do oppose to a few of the mods' policies, I.e. when the "Against ASR" thread popped up, a LOT of members voiced their negative opinions towards another forum. In example, ASR does not allow ANY of such talk regarding other forums, and this in a sense has kept the hostilities down at ASR. I'm not saying that ASF is inferior, but that you guys should set certain rules that do not allow "flame" threads against other forums, members, or other such internet communities.

In summary, I'm simply saying - STOP COMPLAINING. ASF is a community not just for you, but for thousands of other people - keep it clean, follow the rules that are set by mods, and learn how to interact with other members. If you don't like the rules here, don't flame - LEAVE.

Thank you, my friend. You actually understand. You have no idea how encouraging it is to know that someone out there in the community fathoms what it takes. You have my props.


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G:SRUSpotter
post Oct 5 2009, 12:22 AM
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Ok, so, I'm new here, but I'm an old hand on another forum (about 13,000 members). Honestly, I haven't even glanced at the OT. It's fun every once in awhile, but often, as you have said, it gets out of hand. I think doing what you have by putting it on a restricted basis where only good quality posters can access it (aka, no one who spams just to get the post count) is a great idea. That's why we removed the ranks from our other forum. People would just spam to get the next rank. So all in all, from a newbie, good decisions guys a-salute.gif


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erk
post Oct 5 2009, 07:09 AM
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Admin, You see, if you can't take criticism without trying to strike back at people, you are not going to get anywhere too fast. There is no reason to call someone a retard and swear at them because you don't agree with them. It is a free country and freedom of speech is one of the fantastic things about it.

Your people who post, no matter what you think of them, are your friends. You have broken your own anti-flame rules with this "strikeback". If the webmaster can't be mature, the people using the forums can't be expected to be mature. You need to set your standards higher, noone needs to know that you are broke and begging for money, noone needs to see your power trips while you berate a 12 year old for his opinion THAT YOU ASKED FOR.

If you want to be the leader of a forum, you should censor yourself more effectively, accentuate your positives and stick with that. This is not an heirachy, there are tons of airsoft forums to go to. Humble and foresight through dignity and self-control can go a long way. Calling your members retards makes an censored2.gif out of you and especially out of them. Your one error will count a thousand-fold over your attributes. Strength is not in how you critique but how you take your criticism.
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admin
post Oct 5 2009, 09:25 AM
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QUOTE (erk @ Oct 5 2009, 08:09 AM) *
Admin, You see, if you can't take criticism without trying to strike back at people, you are not going to get anywhere too fast. There is no reason to call someone a retard and swear at them because you don't agree with them. It is a free country and freedom of speech is one of the fantastic things about it.
thank you for the advise, I appreciate it but this forum is NOT a free country and people will not come here and insult me, this forum or its members and get away with it like its ok for them to do so especially when they don't even have their facts straight. Read my above comments again and pay close attention to how wrong the person is - they are not giving their opinions, they are flipping ill founded "facts" around as if they know what they are talking about to which they do not.

QUOTE (erk @ Oct 5 2009, 08:09 AM) *
...Your people who post, no matter what you think of them, are your friends.
If someone is flipping insults and BS around - they are not my friends and I am not tolerant of that - period and I will insult right back but more harsh. You / they are not going to come to our forums here and insult me or any other staff here because you have a bug up your censored2.gif about something and get away with it.

QUOTE (erk @ Oct 5 2009, 08:09 AM) *
...You have broken your own anti-flame rules with this "strikeback". If the webmaster can't be mature, the people using the forums can't be expected to be mature.


Is it flaming a student when the teacher or principle says, "You better knock it off right now, one more outburst of stupidity is going to get you kicked out of here right now Mister!"

Then when the student can not keep his mouth shut, and gets roasted over an open flame verbally, you call that unacceptable huh? NO, if morons are going to show up here and run their mouth - they better at least have their facts straight and do it with some respect or you can bet your censored2.gif that it will not be tolerated.

There were plenty of negative posts made in this topic initially that I DID NOT go off on because those posts were made with tact and respect. When the trouble makers decided to do it while "showing their asses" what did you expect me to do - just be their friend and allow some "free speech" around here? No, I don't think so - sorry

QUOTE (erk @ Oct 5 2009, 08:09 AM) *
...You need to set your standards higher, noone needs to know that you are broke and begging for money,
People asked why we were asking for money. People wanted to know why this website costs money and why it isn't free to operate and that it isn't just magic fairy dust that keeps it operating. If we're asking for money and operational costs and the person responsible for that can not even pay his own bills yet he keeps this forum up and alive, you think it unfair, dubious or dishonest for me to ask for help and you call yourself "my friend" ? Sounds to me like you need to go make some friends somewhere else.

QUOTE (erk @ Oct 5 2009, 08:09 AM) *
...noone needs to see your power trips while you berate a 12 year old for his opinion THAT YOU ASKED FOR.
I did ask for opinions, not censored2.gif. and I don't care how old a person is. they need to show some respect around here or find another forum. no one is going to come around and disrepect me or any other staff member and its not about being on a "power trip".

Obviously you're also trying to be a smart censored2.gif because the 2 or 3 people that got their hind end bit off were 18, 19, and 20. We expect slightly more out of people who claim and want to be adults. If a child is 12, we deal with them differently than a 20 year old, but nonetheless, we don't tolerate disrespect or outbursts of stupidity from them either... People need to be able to have a logical and factual conversation withing being a jackass about it or go somewhere else. And if you / they (the people that got flamed earlier) can not do that without feeling the need to insult me or talking trash, then I wont stand for it for one second.

QUOTE (erk @ Oct 5 2009, 08:09 AM) *
...If you want to be the leader of a forum, you should censor yourself more effectively, accentuate your positives and stick with that. This is not an heirachy, there are tons of airsoft forums to go to. Humble and foresight through dignity and self-control can go a long way. Calling your members retards makes an censored2.gif out of you and especially out of them. Your one error will count a thousand-fold over your attributes. Strength is not in how you critique but how you take your criticism.


Its not that I want to be a leader of anything. But as I said, people are not going to come around and talk pain.gif about this forum, the staff or me and get away with it. I don't care if it's their opinion or not. There are ways to convey negativity constructively without being a jackass about it. Now please go back and re-read my earlier comments along with "the outbursts of stupidity that they were directed at" and you may begin to see what I am saying here. If you are too close minded to see that or simply want to believe what you want to believe - then do that - but do it somewhere else. This is a community where people will respect others - especially the staff and administrators. If they don't they're going to get roasted over an open flame and they can leave or get deleted.

If you'll kindly notice - I do not run things around here, the staff and other admins do. I am the owner and webmaster of this site but I do not "run it" - I keep it operational and pay to keep it running.

Oh and you're absolutely right about one thing... This is not a "hierarchy" - it's more like a democracy. For anyone that knows me and knows what I stand for (provided they've been around to see and watch my actions), they will know that I am a good leader, a good communicator, wise and fair. But what I am not is tolerant of jackassery, nonsense and people that want to talk pain.gif.


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BushmanSniper
post Oct 5 2009, 09:49 AM
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QUOTE (Tux @ Oct 4 2009, 11:51 PM) *
Bushmansniper:

Your idea on how things work is great and all but that "proceedural" mindset that you have is what causes some big issues sometimes. People just need to accept the punishments they get on here. I have had people post something HORRIBLE on their first offense, had them suspended and they complained about me "not following proceedures". That crap ticks me off. We, the staff of ASF, reserve the right to act accordingly to the situation. Any proceedures we put out there are general guidlines for the most common issues -- not every issue.

Now if people see that a mod may be abusing their powers they have the right AND ABILITY to bring it up with another admin/mod via PM. Going haywire and posting retaliating topics across the publicity of the forum is NOT the way to go about a greivance issue. All that does is get you banned.

Now to tie this up to the off-topic forum issue:

The environment of that forum has made things ever so complicated for mods. We have to deal with and manage a different ball field. Members in off-topic are very ... liberal about what they post. Pointless crap like "lol ok" is normal in there. So yeah, you can't blame us for wanting to go crackdown on everyone.


oh by all means it depends on the situation. you cant expect to come onto the forum and berate the admin or verbally assault a member and not expect a mod ot only warn you. you will recieve some sort of ban. that itself depends on the situation like I said. 90% of the time I wont argue with a mod because it usually results in a warn level being raised. but if I know imright I will stand my ground till the end. but people are beginning to stand their ground on everythigne even stupid little sh1t. they feel since its the internet that they are invincible. I look at it like this. would you say that in person to their face? if not then why say it online? that in initself would resolve 80% of the bs on here.

QUOTE (admin @ Oct 5 2009, 10:25 AM) *
thank you for the advise, I appreciate it but this forum is NOT a free country and people will not come here and insult me, this forum or its members and get away with it like its ok for them to do so especially when they don't even have their facts straight. Read my above comments again and pay close attention to how wrong the person is - they are not giving their opinions, they are flipping ill founded "facts" around as if they know what they are talking about to which they do not.

If someone is flipping insults and BS around - they are not my friends and I am not tolerant of that - period and I will insult right back but more harsh. You / they are not going to come to our forums here and insult me or any other staff here because you have a bug up your censored2.gif about something and get away with it..


admin I really don't see how you put up with some of this stuff. someone talking like that do you and the staff need a wack from the




and this is directed to aznriptide859:

being a mod is a job in itself, that's why I never want to be one on a forum this big. ill hand it to our current mods, they are doing what needs be done to keep things in order. and they are doing a good job. people just get pissy when they cant roam freely and do what they want, but its time to get over that and move on for them. but I completely agree with you on the flaming subject, it needs to be back down quite a bit


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aznriptide859
post Oct 5 2009, 10:59 AM
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^Agreed, the whining really needs to stop. If you seriously don't like it here, leave - this forum is no place for complainers. If you want change, make it happen - consult a mod with ideas, or, if you REALLY hate ASF, make your own forum (sort of how ASB formed, but I'm not going into that).

For those who are going against mods, please realize that when you signed up for ASF, you "AGREED" to the Terms, Rules, and Conditions of this Forum. By accepting it (not necessarily reading it), you promise the community that you will abide by the rules and will agree with what the moderators do. Seriously, if you can't even read the rules, why be here?

As for the maturity of the members, it shouldn't be a requirement, but it should definitely be in affect. I don't care how old you are, but you better have been raised to treat elders and higher-ups with respect and appreciation. As said before, these people are dedicating personal time and money to ensure the functionality of this forum, which most of the members don't realize - they simply log on, read whatever, and post Professional/rant about whatever they want. This doesn't only apply to moderators, it also applies to interactions among members. In short terms, just remember the Golden Rule.


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laxweasel
post Oct 5 2009, 01:44 PM
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A piece of constructive advice.

You can go one of two ways with this forum:
1. A haven for "all" airsoft players of every age and every level of airsoft playing. Inherent in the principle of **** in equals **** out. You will have some mature players and you will have some totally immature, internet power tripping or nonsensical trolls. You won't hear complaints about heavy handed moderation but you will have a board that slowly populates itself with moronic topics and posts. Real information will be there but will take searching.
2. A haven for "intelligent" airsoft players/information. People will complain constantly about an oppressive and elitist atmosphere and heavy handed moderation. Population of the board and it's traffic will drop. The post quality will increase.

Admittedly these are extreme example of general evolution, but really it makes quite a bit of sense...you will almost always lean to one way or another. Obviously at the moment the board leans a bit more towards option 1.
The best pragmatic solution I can imagine - a reputation system/post rating system. With post rating system, you must believe that the critical mass of readers -and a reminder, readers not posters- are intelligent and mature airsoft players, and will not be "thumbs upping" irrelevant spam and "thumbs downing" attempts to rein in this idiocy. The reputation system may be better. Starting with mods/admin distributing reputation. Good, intelligent posts earn +1 reputation. At a certain level of reputation, people with enough can also start handing out reputation for posts they also see as intelligent. When done carefully this can help differentiate the critical mass of intelligent posters. Perhaps even integrate a minus or warn system, and do like youtube where the posts by people with negative reputation or negative feedback are hidden.

Just a pragmatic idea in the midst of pessimism. I try to make my posts few but educated, and that's how you would attract people to do the same.

As for the b/s/t...it is sort of the same. You cannot ELIMINATE scams this way. You need to decide whether the amount you eliminated is worth it. In addition remember that when people pay for a service they expect more, so scams of authorized sellers carry more weight, and scams involving SOA could drag another company and possible legalities into the picture. You will, however, lose lots of sellers and traffic from people who are not frequent sellers, just as ASR did. Whether that's the majority of airsofters I don't know, but I'm inclined to say yes. However since we DO allow all populations here, it doesn't help that there are many immature/unwise people who have a hard time spotting scam.

Those are my thoughts, hope they are at least a bit helpful.


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**Calling a "sniper rifle" a "sniper" makes you sound silly. Being the third person to mock them for it makes you seem silly too.**
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Eat My M4
post Oct 5 2009, 02:39 PM
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I personally love this forum for several reasons. One is that the people on here are friendly, unlike some other forums ive been too. Also, none of the moderators are tools. Sure opsic removed my sig, but it was in violation of the rules. Whenever im in chat I don't feel like I have to hold myself to a higher standard because they're in there. Ive even played xbox with some of them, and no theyre not idiots. For those of you who say admin is just in this for the money, you are horribly mistaken. If you read through ANY of the old announcment thread, you will see that it is hard to meet the server bill with this much bandwith. For anyone who says our mods her don't do a good enough job, you are also an idiot. Our mods work their asses off just so we can have a cohesive and informative board. Everyone here is welcome to their own opinion, but the people who came in herre just to flame admin and the moderators are idiots. The only reasons to make the BST the way they are is to cut down on the number of scams, and have a little extra money other then donations and sponsors, to pay the server bill. It was in all of our best intersts. Regarding the off topic forum, I believe that is best the way it is now. Keep it that way, there is no reason for people who have not contributed to the airsoft side of this forum to talk about video games and card ect.


Admin and ASF staff, keep up the good work. This is the best board on the internet because of your hard work.


-Doug


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admin
post Oct 5 2009, 02:59 PM
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good input laxweasel, I appreciate it - thanks.

"Eat my M4" - ^^ also very good input - thank you!


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Blak110
post Oct 5 2009, 03:03 PM
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QUOTE (Eat My M4 @ Oct 5 2009, 03:39 PM) *
One is that MOST OF the people on here are friendly, unlike some other forums ive been too.

Fixed, noting the obnoxious fools that have been flaming this thread and insulting the leadership...


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thanks to eege for the epic sig.
QUOTE (Kavurcen @ Feb 23 2010, 11:43 PM) *
No, I got that, but I'm just interested in how you would light someone on fire at an airsoft skirmish.
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conmanagc
post Oct 5 2009, 06:33 PM
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I think the mods and admin should look at the poll about the off-topic section. Last I checked, there were more people against moving it then there where for. You should listen to what people want.
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BushmanSniper
post Oct 5 2009, 07:00 PM
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QUOTE (conmanagc @ Oct 5 2009, 07:33 PM) *
I think the mods and admin should look at the poll about the off-topic section. Last I checked, there were more people against moving it then there where for. You should listen to what people want.

yeah but polls mean very little anymore. the people against it are mostly ones that Professional the OT section all day. very few enjoy it without abusing it


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OpSic66
post Oct 5 2009, 07:19 PM
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QUOTE (conmanagc @ Oct 5 2009, 04:33 PM) *
I think the mods and admin should look at the poll about the off-topic section. Last I checked, there were more people against moving it then there where for. You should listen to what people want.


QUOTE (BushmanSniper @ Oct 5 2009, 05:00 PM) *
yeah but polls mean very little anymore. the people against it are mostly ones that Professional the OT section all day. very few enjoy it without abusing it


Agreed. The problem with the poll is, It's a biased opinion. People who frequent the OT, General, and Poll sections will vote on it. The people who use other sections, or even the entire site, may be completely indifferent about the OT being there or not.

Without a truly unbiased opinion on the OT section, and the knowledge of the fact that 90+% of the staff is against it being here. Coupled with the issues the OT section has created for the site, it's staff, and the user base of ASF. There really is only 1 point of the OT being on this site. That reason is "For the users of ASF".

Personally, to me it's like a car with an extra ashtray. Some people just gotta have the feature, while the majority of folks, just throws the cigarette butt out the window anyways.



QUOTE (Jewlz @ Oct 5 2009, 04:17 PM) *
This is ridiculous. Anyone who you agree with you say " good input" Anyone who doesn't you say ":censored2: you"

You have to listen to both sides. I think you should just not post in this thread, and see what people are saying.

You seem a bit perturbed about what is going on. To be honest with you it seems that EMM4 wasn't agreeing with Admin much at all, but more of a social commentary post. As for Laxweasel, I didn't see him agree with anything, but just make an open comment.

If you have a grudge with admin, I suggest you either take it to PM's, Emails, Or Phone calls with him.
His behavior towards users that without a doubt by my own reading, "fired first" in the nonsensical I need to talk smack tone. Admin was merely "flaming back". Since this is HIS website, I feel he has all the right in the world to do so. It's funny that when someone screws up and a moderator (or admin) calls them on it. They cry foul. Yet when the rules are plainly written, and the users agree upon them when joining the site. No one seems too upset about those rules, until they violate them, and get caught.

The way of "well it's not illegal unless your caught" way of life might be appealing to you. You can and will (with time) get caught when violating rules. As was already stated, the whining needs to stop. It's the age old argument and statement. You have to pay to play (in one sort of another). This includes following the rules.


For the rest of the folks here considering commenting in this thread:
I will NOT tolerate users openly being rude to staff, or other users. If you think you need to flame, name call, or just open start talking smack. I will be more then happy to provide an attitude adjustment if needed.

This post has been edited by OpSic66: Oct 5 2009, 07:30 PM


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BushmanSniper
post Oct 5 2009, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE (OpSic66 @ Oct 5 2009, 08:19 PM) *
For the rest of the folks here considering commenting in this thread:
I will NOT tolerate users openly being rude to staff, or other users. If you think you need to flame, name call, or just open start talking smack. I will be more then happy to provide an attitude adjustment if needed.


made me smile. a-grin.gif

that reaper avy isnt just there for looks


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Thumper69
post Oct 6 2009, 08:42 PM
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First I'd like to thank those of you that have chimed in here. PP himself helped me develop the skills I use as a Mod so props to him, and when he says he's been in more different guns than most.. well since for a year or two I'd buy, have him tune it, and sell it (at a loss) He's not just whistling Dixie.


And guys this is a rough job. Now no it isn't a paying gig. But it IS a rough job. When I first joined ASF years ago I thought that being a mod was easy, Then I became one. And wow. Then I became a ML2 and I have to say.

This IS a headache somedays, but to be honest. I've gotten PMs from members just saying thank you for taking the time to talk to them, and THAT makes it ALL worth it. To know that simply helping them makes that much difference.. How on earth can I complain? Sure Admin makes mistakes, as do we all. And some of out staff can get a bit ban happy. however I know that there have been cases where we almost all voted ban, so maybe in that manner I'm part of that. But those cases are rare. And to be fair many of the reports I get are junk, but a few are people trying to help make this site run smoother, and even if it gets to be a pain... it's worth it.


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bat21win
post Oct 6 2009, 09:48 PM
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QUOTE (aznriptide859 @ Oct 4 2009, 11:11 PM) *
For people who complain about ban happy mods, there are two situations:

1. The mod feels he has power, and abuses it by banning those who oppose is personal views.
2. The mod uses power to keep the forum users in check.

Honestly, most cases are the 2nd, while there may be a few that are the 1st. The mods are simply doing their job, and removing those who either are either detrimental to the forum community, or do not post/contribute anything positive or useful.

You have no idea how hard it is to be a mod. These people spend time out of their working day, when they have families, jobs, personal issues, and financial things to worry about, to help ensure a good community on ASF. I've been told this many times on ASR, and I seriously appreciate what moderators do. I do sit around the forums a lot, and at a certain time wished to be a moderator; however, I feel that I cannot commit the extra time and effort to monitor a community of over 30,000 people, and shouldn't have that much power. If you really want to be a mod, I dare you to try it - it's more work than you think, so you should appreciate what mods do for you.

The reason some are strict (which is partly why I do spend more time on ASR) is that it keeps the forums CLEAN and CIVILIZED. If no strict rules are in place, forums will become rampant. Then again it's the internet, so anything could happen. Moderators are in place to keep posts and members in check so they don't violate, if any, laws or state something offensive to other members. The forums need to stay clean and proper, and that's what a moderator's job is.

I do oppose to a few of the mods' policies, I.e. when the "Against ASR" thread popped up, a LOT of members voiced their negative opinions towards another forum. In example, ASR does not allow ANY of such talk regarding other forums, and this in a sense has kept the hostilities down at ASR. I'm not saying that ASF is inferior, but that you guys should set certain rules that do not allow "flame" threads against other forums, members, or other such internet communities.

In summary, I'm simply saying - STOP COMPLAINING. ASF is a community not just for you, but for thousands of other people - keep it clean, follow the rules that are set by mods, and learn how to interact with other members. If you don't like the rules here, don't flame - LEAVE.

I finally had to step down as an administrator after the constant stress started getting to me. I would work all day, go to school at night, and then come home to find an ASF inbox full of reports. The irritating thing was that half of these so-called crises that seemed to pop up once a week were just middle-school level drama.

But honestly, I always hated banning people or giving out warnings. I usually try to go with my gut feeling. If I'm sure that someone is starting drama to get a rise out of me (believe it or not, there are members that try this kinda crap, I have a whole list of names), then I'll slap a heavy suspension on w/o a second though. But if think it was an honest mistake I'm probably not going to do anything but send a PM letting them know about the rule.

And last I checked, threads that bashed other forums were not allowed. Ditto on member bashing. If there's a issue to be resolved, it can be done in private. I used to delete threads like that.


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Meety Peety
post Oct 7 2009, 08:31 PM
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This thread Rapidly went off course on page one. A lot of you aren't even addressing this issues presented in the original post, but rather coming here to complain about whatever happens to be bothering you at the time and as usual, attacking admin just for the sake of drama. It really boggles my mind why anyone would actually want to partake in this annoying crap, but a lot of you come here over and over posting the same junk every time admin posts. You guys need to understand that admin does own this website, but the staff as a whole votes on major issues and changes. While we rarely agree 100% on any given issue, the majority of staff votes are what implement changes.. thus if you have a problem with something, take it up with all of us, not just admin. Attacking him like this only makes you look ignorant and disrespectful, especially when looking at the situation from a third party perspective.

QUOTE (lazyshark @ Oct 4 2009, 10:45 AM) *
I have surfed the GBB pistols board many times and have not seen a single thread on Western Arms.

...there is no information on upgrading unique guns. Rather, there is an abundance of generic information and troubleshooting for cheapo AEGs, Knock Off WE Guns and threads like "What's the best gun I can buy for X money?"

I lol'd when I read this. You must not have searched at all.. if you close your eyes it isn't our fault that you can't see. Regardless, you aren't going to find some mystical forum of GBB gurus that sit down and share their secrects with you lol. Why? because we make a lot of money building custom guns for clients. Our trade secrects are ours, they are the sole reason we are able to provide the service we do - VERY few of us are ever going to write a "tell-all" about it. I'm one of maybe 3-5 people that I know of who will occassionally make a full public write up on a specific "trade secret".. but a good rule of thumb is that if you're someone who will benefit from it, you're probably someone who knows where to find it. Theres only a handful of people who are well known for building GBBs and 95% of them will tell you the same thing I just did if you PM them and ask them for specific information. Now don't get me wrong, theres a ton of common knowledge questions to be answered out there.. but anyone can give you the general information you need to simply fix a gun or throw upgrades at it.. all you have to do is take 5 minutes out of your life to post a thread asking what you want to know. Bottom line is that it sounds to me like you had a couple of generic WA questions, but were too lazy to post them.


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QUOTE ( Romeo_Delta @ Mar 19 2010, 09:05 PM) *
Also, this is a forum. You aren't entitled freedom.
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TyGuy94920
post Oct 8 2009, 01:15 PM
Post #69


Dawdge^(-1)
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I'm not sure exactly who or where to post this, so I'm going to add it here

Yes, I was one of the people who asked for elite status to get into the off-topic forum, and I had it, untill today

I think I got demoted somehow, and now I can't post a reply

I can get into the forum, and read the topics, but can't post

Was there another update that I wasn't aware of?

This post has been edited by TyGuy94920: Oct 8 2009, 01:16 PM


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p4ndora
post Oct 8 2009, 04:07 PM
Post #70


ASF's "takes it too far" guy


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The OT section is now Read-only for non-elite members. I don't know why you got demoted. You could PM hydralover, Vietec, or Meety Peety, to name a few.


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JackCarver1
post Oct 8 2009, 04:44 PM
Post #71


ASF Citizen


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I think that we should have a section for non airsoft related talk, not a place were everybody can just post random things, but a place were you can post non airsoft related things, but not just purely random things like it was before. I think the "The Most Off Topic Thread Ever" should be deleted. I mean c'mon, it's a airsoft forum. Just have a section for non related airsoft things that don't count in your post count. It should be well moderated and it shouldn't be like it was before were people go off topic on every thread that is made in it.

Just my crappy 2 cents. a-laugh.gif

-Jack


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Meety Peety
post Oct 9 2009, 09:23 PM
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I enjoy long walks on the beach.. with a 1911.


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QUOTE (TyGuy94920 @ Oct 8 2009, 11:15 AM) *
I'm not sure exactly who or where to post this, so I'm going to add it here

Yes, I was one of the people who asked for elite status to get into the off-topic forum, and I had it, untill today

I think I got demoted somehow, and now I can't post a reply

I can get into the forum, and read the topics, but can't post

Was there another update that I wasn't aware of?

Did you read your "application"? I did.. but it wasn't an application at all. Just because the OT is now in the Elite section doesn't mean that the Elite section is going to go downhill. You are still expected to post with maturity and quality. If you would like to discuss this further, feel free to PM me.


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QUOTE ( Romeo_Delta @ Mar 19 2010, 09:05 PM) *
Also, this is a forum. You aren't entitled freedom.
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