I like the for sale section as it is, Ive been using it for a little while and its fine heres my ideas on what should be changed with it and/or the website.

-Make it so people have to register as a member to view any and all threads to prevent the server over loading
-Make a seller Trust level or reputation level so buyers can view from the thread if the seller is reputable
-Make a system were people cant free bump other people's adds other the OP
-Allow the seller to edit the thread until the thread is closed because 5 days isnt very long to get pics up and such
-Make it so people cant scam others by using the same buyer pretection system as ebay where the seller has to wait a while before he can access money.
-For people with low reputation levels make the color Red, for moderate levels Yellow for good rep sellers Green
and make it only for seller/trader feedback because buyer feedback is pointless.

This post has been edited by chaddylehner: Aug 24 2010, 06:28 PM

If you are simply looking for a way to get more money, then I am going to say this isnt a good way...

If you did this, it would either cause:

1) Everyone who paid will get all the views, and most likely take up several pages of stickies that block out non-payers. This would also mean that if there were enough, someone on page 3 paid the same amount for an ad as someone on page 1.

2) People simply wouldnt want to use this BST section any more. I wouldnt blame them, there are too many free ones that are popular.

or both.

I'd personally rather have more ads from websites if you could generate cash with that. Its more beneficial to the community as well, and for their business. Look at the IAS, perfect example. I know for a fact they made a huge profit off advertising here, and I know that a ton of airsofters have new slings that they love, while it also gave cash to ASF for ad'ing cost.

With Chad's ideas, agreed.

Also, something that is on another non airsoft forum I go on, for security reasons...

Identity verification. Have it so that it's not required to be a seller, but it's just an extra net that might help.

I think it should be exactly like ASR. You can update your original post, and when everything is sold, they are deleted. No more bump-battles or reading through 3 different pages just to find out everything is sold.

#1 and as I have already said, we're not going to be deleting any topics when they are done.
#2 if someone would like to explain the ASR system, I am listening.

I do not use the PM system here. what you're saying sounds familiar but can you email it to me again please: admin / airsoftforum.com, thanks

please resend the explination as well as links to their system and instructions so I can try to model it. It sounds like a modification and I've never seen one like that for this type of forum software. I have a feeling you're talking about a VB board modification which wont work here. That may be something that I would have to hire a programmer to setup.



#1 That's pretty much exactly what people said 2 years ago when we went to a paid / free system then. We've doubled in size after charging money to list ads. We went from 20,000 people a day to over 40,000 people day. That doesn't really sound like people stopped using it to me.
#2, please name 2 airsoft website forums (free ones) that expose your for sale topics to more than 1 million visitors a month ?



No, there are quite a few of you and most of them scurried over to ASB when we went to a paid and free system here 2 years ago. Many of them also proclaimed that charging money for the ads would be "the death of ASF". As I have already said repeatedly... NOT HARDLY. In fact we've actually doubled in size since then and without any money to help pay the server bills as we grow - a free system can not work financially when you're getting more than 1 million visitors a month.



well based on the size we are now and what this is costing me - yes.... in other words, without any cash to pay the growing server bills with, no one could afford it.

Admin considering my ideas? I think they would be pretty good.

Well...here is me admitting being wrong I guess. Didnt know about that. Im assuming the smart alec remark was for emphasis, lol. Of you course your admin so you can do whatever you want...

Anyways, I am going to say I support looking for ways to get more money, but I am not sure on this one....what about charging a fixed rate on completed sales....not sure how that would be enforced though.

EDIT: The ASR system!

Its basically like SOA really...but on the same account and web address as the forum.

This post has been edited by airsoft159: Aug 24 2010, 09:42 PM

Honestly, adding more and more ways to get rid of the free seller is really going to kill off the BST. When are you going to stop? When there's a separate, free BST forum made by frustrated sellers hosted on a Forumotion?

lol

Read his last post.

He says the size of ASF doubled since people had to pay. (not as a result of having to pay...just saying having to pay didnt affect it)

Why not make it cost x amount of money to post a thread in the FS section. Kind of like ebay. This would make each member post less threads (somebody has been consistently bumping 3 threads daily...). Also, if you were to ban free bumps in the FS section, and then charger a smaller fee to bump your own topic, then that would help. However, you would have to allow sellers to edit their original post whenever, so the potential buyers get good information.

The issue with this is non paypal sellers. How do non paypal Sellers currently pay?

If you pretend everyone has paypal, it would look like this:
Gunshot starts a new thread in the FS section, costing him X amount of money.
a few days later, Gunshots post is far enough in the pages that he wants to rebump it.
Somebody posts asking a question.
Gunshot edits his original post to answer the question.
Gunshot sells Item 1 in his listing, so he edits his post and removes Item 1
Gunshot bumps his post after waiting a few days.
ETC.

Alright dude....if I get charged to bump my thread, I will leave this BST section.

Admin, I don't know what kind of agreements you have with the sponsors, or if this type of thing could even be done, but just a quick thought....what if people could buy from the sponsors without leaving ASF? While also contributing a small amount to ASF of course.

Like the ASF store (do we still have that?)

You go into, say the 'AirsoftAtlanta' subforum. Have a simplified version of AA that only lists the in stock inventory, maybe the "check box on right" and "add to cart button at the bottom" method to keep it simple. No information, no tons of pictures. Just a name that clearly shows what it is, a small picture, and a price.

Not everything they sell, but BBs for sure, and other often bought items.

Charge AA a certain amount per sale, or charge the buyer....I'd pay the extra amount if it were on ASF and contributing to ASF.

I am very tired so sorry if this doesnt make sense...Ill try to explain better tomorrow if I need to

Is there something wrong with the way the system works now?

Personally, I don't like the idea of pinned sale threads, but that's just me.

I don't mind paying a subscription to post FS threads. I don't mind that there's a SOA system that's being pushed on us. (I don't like auctions; I'd rather deal personally.) I would mind paying a per-post fee to make my posts as noticeable as others'.

Pbnation has a thing called "gold ups" which is 5 bucks for the thready to be sticky for 4 days

Even if it was 25 cents?


It doesn't bring home the bacon. Hell, it doesn't even make it home haha.

Who says it doesn't?

Dear Robert,
Honestly, find another way to make money off of the site and leave the only thing most people are here for alone... I'm starting to feel like you don't even care about members. First the whole SOA/authorized seller thing was about "protecting buyers". Now it's just flat out about money? You keep shuttling members through different processes, SOA, authorized seller, ASF auctions, now whatever the hell you're doing, it's ridiculous. Are you ever going to create a stable system that people can actually enjoy using? And honestly, this is BS. A year or so ago I go through the Elite application process. I became an "Elite" member. Later I go through the free-seller Sportsonlyauction.com process. I became an "Authorized Seller Free Elite". Now I'm stuck; I need to sell things, but I loved using ASF's off-topic sections. So now I can either pay a YEARLY rate, which is worth a pretty good portion of what I'm actually selling, just give up on accessing the "hidden forums", or go back to off-topic and not get my things sold. Why did you have to put people into such a corner like this?

It was fairly recently, following a huge sum of traffic that you said something along the lines of "ASF is all about the members." Is it? You don't quite seem to listen to us often. Let me offer you some advice that's been put forth by old ASF members for a while now.

ADD MORE BANNERS, SAVE THE FORUMS. I WOULD RATHER HAVE TO DEAL EVEN WITH POPUP ADS THEN NOT BE ABLE TO USE ALL OF ASF'S FEATURES.

I know you swore that ASF would always have as few banner ads as possible, but I don't think anyone would mind another banner if it meant NOT paying $10 a month for features that only a year or two ago were taken as a right, something that I still believe them to be.

But wait? Do you even have to? Some websites claim that you make approximately $30 a day in ad revenues. Combined with authorized seller and sponsorship fees, this raises a question; How much of member's money goes to pay off the site and how much are you pocketing yourself? You yourself told me how much ASF costs per month to run, and it's far below your supposed revenue. In addition to the other websites you own (I.e. pharmaceuticals store) I really doubt you have much cause to raise what we're paying.

By all means, correct me if I'm wrong, and with all due respect...
– Kavurcen

post script...
I know you'll feel the urge to ban me for this, or delete this post, but why don't you let it remain as it is, and not ban me (since I see no rule justifying me to do so). Instead of trying to influence member's opinions, let them see both sides of the issue and decide for themselves accordingly... somewhat similar to the principles of our country's founding, no?

This post has been edited by Kavurcen: Aug 25 2010, 01:16 AM

^So then may I ask what you are doing on ASF? Please, I doubt you've created THAT many sale threads.

Even still, I'd hate if there was advertisements all over the place.

if it were possible to make 2 rows of sale threads I think that would be great, this way you could see twice the amount sale threads

I'm on ASF because I need to sell things, but mainly since I love contribution, having logged over two years and 3000 posts of it, and want to see the airsoft community grow; ASF, a rather large, semi-international forum with large amounts of traffic and many members is a perfect viewpoint from which to observe such growth.

This post has been edited by Kavurcen: Aug 25 2010, 01:04 AM

Honestly, if the BST Changes anymore than it already has, I will most likely not be coming back.

It's really unlikely people will be willing to pay more than a few bucks. especially if it's per one listing during a small period of time. ASR has a pretty good system nailed down.

I'm gonna be honest - I think this is stupid.

First of all, prioritied sale threads will basically go to the ones with the most money, I.e. probably, at max, 15% of all airsofters. Forums scare away enough kids who aren't even willing to sucker up $10 for the yearly ad fee. You ask for more money, you drive away more people.

However, for those willing to pay the fee, you will always see their ads up front, which will be extremely annoying - I'm tired as it is seeing 5-6 threads of one person's sale threads simply because he keeps bumping them up every night. You'll simply create more problems if you implement this system. Which leads me to another issue...

The bumping idea is actually pretty bad as it is (I was actually the one who suggested the taking away of bumping to Hydralover last year), as it simply rewards people who have too much free time on their hands, something the older airsofters/people with ACTUAL jobs usually do not have time for. I'm more used to the Arnie's system, where bumping isn't allowed at all unless it's for price changes or inventory updates. This allows newer posters to get their threads more out there, rather than seeing the same old, boring ads EVERY night. If a buyer wants something specific, put some effort to search for it.

EDIT: +50 to Kavurcen. In my 5 years of airsofting, ASF is the ONLY forum I've ever seen personally send emails and PMs to me requesting money, donations, or fees for whatever to run the forum. If your site is gathering as many new members and views as you claim to have, you can EASILY cover your forum costs - it doesn't take a math major to figure that out.

However, if you REALLY aren't able to support the forum for some reason, then here's a suggestion - hand it off to someone who can.

This post has been edited by aznriptide859: Aug 25 2010, 01:31 AM

Oh, Robert. You were right; the authorized seller system wasn't the death of ASF. But do you know why? Because people DIDN'T pay for ads, there was an option that us normal folks could use, applying for free auth seller status by making a sports only auction listing. Now that you're proposing taking that away, THAT is when the "I can only list here if I pay, there is no free option" factor will kick in and you'll see another exodus. TBH this is just steering closer and closer towards the "s-word".

Robert I spoke with you originally on the phone a few days ago, but here is the basic information so everyone can see exactly what I said to you and see how really easy a change could be and not destroy peoples perceptions of your site. So here we go from the begining again.

I am council member of BST Perfection Elite a club and forum thread on pbnation.com
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3431346

The club is based on positive only feedback and regulated by a council group that self patrols members feedback and only allows members with well established feedback of 30 or more half of them being sales. 1 negative or neutral and your out. The reason I bring this up first is it would be nice for members dealing here to know the person they are buying, or trading with is a trusted party that has a history of completing the sale right. As opposed to someone that just buys a authorized seller membership here.

Think about it, wouldn't you feel better buying or trading from someone that has a awesome rep and didn't buy it? We also have our own thread where we talk about current market value on selling and trading items not just paintball equipment. Its also a place to just bs with the guys the only thing we don't do is discuss selling or trading to each other I.e. I have a 2010 Planet Eclipse Ego anyone want it. Each member in addition to being listed on the current membership list, also gets a individual banner with their name to put up in their sales threads to validate real members from wanna bees that think they can pose as a legit member.

Moving on here is my original thought on revamping the BST forum here...
it works but its not generating enough income to sustain itself, so...

On Pbnation.com members have the option to buy gold ups, what these do is keep your thread posted on the top of the first page for a limited amount of time 4 days, after that 4 days your gold up disappears and you have to manually bump your thread every 8 hours with a bump box that is at the top of the page of sales thread. I don't know the specifics of the programming required to set it up but you can email John<AT>pbnation.com to have him fill you in shareware is a great thing sometimes.

I only know it keeps jackels that like to have their idiot friends post so they stay on the first page all day long, from getting ahead of everyone else and it also keeps you from being rewarded every time some random person posts up that they think your gun is hot. :a-angry:

Posts in the B/S/T section are shown in order of the last time the thread starter "bumped" their thread. Posting in a thread in the B/S/T forum does not take that thread to the top. Instead the thread starter is allowed to "bump" the thread by clicking on the bump button once every 8 hours. We instituted this feature to make the B/S/T section more fair so people couldn't continually post in their own thread to take it to the top and therefor get more exposure. :a-thumbsup: :a-yesnod:

A green bump button means it is ready to be hit.
A gray bump button means it has been hit within 8 hours and isn't ready to be clicked.

This way you are also seeing the most current active threads because the thread starter is the only one who can bump it up to the top. Dead threads where the item has been sold can't come to the top just because someone has posted in it.

I especially like the last part as it keeps people from necroposting on a thread from 3 years ago :a-shocked:
Have the bump box modified for 24 hour bumps only, this way the honest people that only bump 1 time every 24 hours as the rules require still do and the dishonest get nothing.

Now onto the gold ups the supposed killer of fair play here because the people with money will flood page upon page with pinned sales threads.... Not going to happen!!!! :a-cool:

Realistically pbnation.com has a member group that far outnumbers airsoftforum.com sorry but its true. In fact they are the worlds biggest paintball forum, but guess what paintball gear isn't the only thing being sold there. As a result its a open social network for online sales. So even with the millions of people there the first page and subsequent pages are not locked with gold ups. So you can quit using that as an excuse

What are Gold Ups?
Gold Ups are paid stickies in the BST forum. Gold Ups will stick your thread to the top of the forum for four or more days. This is the single best way to get your thread noticed by more people. It is a proven fact that a Gold Upped item will sell faster simply because more people will see it. To buy Gold Ups, just click on the Gold Ups button at the top of your B/S/T thread.

Why buy Gold Ups?
•Gold Ups are a proven way to sell or buy gear faster here on PbNation.
•Gold Ups allow you to sell new items in the New or Used Equipment / Services Forum.
•Gold Upped items often sell for more money because more people notice it.


So if you're frugal and are content to bump your threads every 24 hours guess what? you still can, and for those that want a permanent sticky for 4 days and are willing to pay for it even better as it helps them sell and it keeps the site going.

...That is something I'm not seeing a lot of people caring about as your just thinking about yourselves and not this awesome site.

So lets see... the cheap guys still can sell for free with SOA, so quit your whining its not helping. Guys who have the extra cash in paypal can gold up.

What if I don't have paypal, its not fair to exclude me?
If you can go online, you can get your butt in gear and get a paypal account.

I'm too young to have a paypal account, or I don't have a bank account,credit card, etc.etc.
But you know someone that does don't you!!!! Pay them 2 bucks extra plus actual payment and have them help you out!!!!

Seriously the excuses people use are just that excuses,
quit making them and do something productive with yourself.

Robert the final part is something I think will generate more income and guess what... will designate the real people who care about the site growing and those who pretend to care and try to act special because they've been here for years, and think because they have a huge post count it automatically makes them special you know who you are. I like to call you site trolls as you have no other means of contact with the real world besides trying to act like your airsoft experience and tinkering makes you demi gods, instead of being graciously helpful you act like conceited children kudos to you someone smells spoiled.

Pbnation has a ASM annual supporting member For $29.99 a year. These members contribute to the site, and also get something back in turn, for starters a ASM patch next to name on posts similar to seller elite or make seller elite the avatar for asm keeps things easier that way...

Thats right, your buying a product and have something to show for it. you get 2 free gold ups that 2/3 of the asm price as gold ups could be priced at $10 each, not to mention instead of giving ungrateful people who don't contribute anything, the deals from retailers and suppliers you kindly have provided us free, they should be locked in a ASM only forum similiar to the hidden forums, that only supporting members can access. Why only ASM members? Simple why should you benefit from this site if your not willing to give anything in return. Plus the appeal of the unattainable will draw them just look at the hidden forums for proof.

Finally Robert If you want these people who act like they can't afford $30 a year even though they can afford tons of gear and guns, or a custom 1 of 1 AEG, Pistol, with real steel externals or optics to shell out the cash it comes down to greed, that's right greed or self benefit.

Hold a drawing for ASM members only every 4 months that's 3 times a year. Get the retailers or wholesalers to donate AEG,Pistol, or something thats the current flavor of the week as a result they get exposure for their business while helping the airsoft community grow but mainly its for market saturation of their name. Its the way the real world works.

Finally for all you people who say you'll leave if things change. DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU IN THE :censored2: ON THE WAY OUT!!!

This site will continue to grow look at your current growth level Robert, if these people leave good riddance as no one likes Prima Donnas! and for the guy who posted up about the other ventures Robert has going and the capitol he is or isn't making from them, who made you judge of balance in the universe last time I checked you don't run a online website trying to help others do you?

Don't bother with a response as I'm not interested in having you validate why you would feel the need to vilify and try to demean the admin here because you don't think its fair for them to actually make a living and benefit from their hard work. People like you would of made great cold war communists because you think everyone deserves the same portions, even though some work harder than others.

...I'm living on a razor thin budget but if I had the money to throw around and if I wasn't going to a private college on my own dime $25 large each year with no state assistance or scholarships, I would help this site in any way I could. I work a full 40 hours a week at a blue collar job insulating water, ammonia, electrical, gas, lines in hot engine rooms or on freezing ammonia tanks that means busted nuckles and carrying tons of materials and tools everyday just trying to support myself so I know what its like to be broke too.

Seriously People if we don't do something the site will fail, then where will you be? I'll probably still be asleep 1 hour before class instead of trying to validate reasons for you to change this site and pay for what you've gotten for free and never appreciated.

sorry if this seems like a rant, but was just giving you some ideas based off a already successful platform thats tried and true, feel free to pm me or email me if you have anything you want to say to me. I am human and am susceptible to human failings so try not to judge me too harshly. In the end I'm just trying to help and make people realize if things change and they actually benefit the users here why fight it or start saying your going to leave

#1 no - that's not a good idea. people need to see the topics to give them a reason to join or log in.
#2 I am currently working in a member feedback system
#3 no - not a good idea - but thanks for the input. This isn't a good idea because that would mean we would have to set a filter that made only posts with a certain number of characters be allowed to get posted and sometimes there are useful short posts.
#4 the 5 days was extended from a few hours for paid sellers. If you can not get pictures and final edits done to your original post in 5 days or less then you're doing something wrong.
#5 sounds like some sort of escrow system, but if we are not able to monitor all transactions (as we are not currently) then we have no idea of the many transactions - let alone trying to stop scams. We put a serious slow down on scams by going to a paid / free system, but we can not stop it completely.



As I have said 3 times now, if someone would care to explain the ASR system in detail with some links for verification and understanding, I can look at that option....
And as for your other comments, I am not sure on this "pay for pinned topics" idea either hence the reason I started this discussion about it in the first place. I really do care what you guys think and I am trying to find a middle ground for everyone to be happy. In order to charge per completed sale as you have suggested, that would require buyers and sellers to police themselves and force one another to use the http://sportsonlyauction.com website for each and every transaction. This is a forum here - not an ecommerce or shopping cart system.



No - not a good idea. firstly there is no way to monitor or police the transaction and thus the reasons for trying to get you guys to use the SportsOnlyAuction.com (SOA) website. Additionally, we are not trying to cause "each member post less threads" - would good would that do ? None - not a good idea but thanks for the input. Also - no, we're not going to "ban free bumps" or "charge a fee to bump your own topic: NO - neither of those are are good ideas IMO, but thanks for the comments.

people without a paypal account don't pay us, but we still allow members to sell here for free if they are willing to help us and use the SOA website. As for how they send money to the sellers when they buy something without a paypal account, I suspect they use money orders.

concerning your comment about pretenting everyone has a paypal and account and your example... No - but thank you for the comments. Editing an original post to following the conversation is and has always been the very worst way to follow a discussion in a forum system which is why we do not allow people to edit their first post after a few hours. Additionally, we are building a library of completed items for future reference, we are not going to remove or delete them once they are sold

Don't worry, I think that's a lame idea too and its not going to happen here.



Our sponsor pay $59 a month to be able to have external links in their signatures, rotate their banners, post ads and stuff like that as explained on the info page: http://www.airsoftforum.com/airsoft-sponsors/

As far as buying from the sponsors without leaving ASF - no that wont work either because when you buy from them - you become THEIR customer - not ours. That can not work on a number of levels and for many reasons but that's for the input. The only way that is remotely possible would be for Sponsors, advertisers and sellers to list their items on the SOA website and or create a free storefront there... and when an item sells, we charge a small fee for the transaction. But #1 we're not charging fees over there because I can't seem to get people to use that website as it is. and #2 most of the Sponsors, sellers and advertisers prefer to run the transactions through their own shopping cart systems.



We do but it is a huge flop so I have removed it for the time being... the ASF store has been tried a few times and #1 its difficult to maintain. #2 people don't want to use it for some reason, and #3 it is going to eventually evolve into a place to buy t-shirts, bumper stickers, decals and stuff like that - not airsoft guns, gear or accessories.



There is nothing really "wrong with" the current BST forums except for the fact that we need to raise more capitol to grow this website and I am simply looking at ways to do this without hurting anyone. I am trying to improve things here - not hurt the website.



Ok first - you are now removed from the "Authorized Seller - Free" member group. Your close mindedness and attitude it pissing me off. You are not trying to do anything helpful except start some sort of mutiny. You want members to see "both sides of the issue"? How about lets start with the fact that this website is very upside down in terms of what it makes monetarily and the number of visitors / server resources it eats up. I am simply looking at ways to improve this. If you think its wrong to actually generate money from providing a service - then perhaps you should go to one of those other free websites with all the banners and pop ups that's you'd so much like to see.

I don't have to justify a fu.cking think you or anyone else. I volunteer information about myself, this website and other things that I am into because I believe in honesty and I believe in caring about each other and for you to suggest otherwise is just plain stupidity. Had you only been around a few weeks, I could cut you some slack on that as you probably wouldn't know. But being here as long as you have and you still think little of me for all the things I have done - then go fu,ck yourself.

You have been here a long time, you have hundreds if not thousands of items sold, all the while refusing to contribute to few dollars back into the system - so it's people like you who piss me off.

Here you are actually making money with our free system here and you are the loudest. Dude, what's up with that? if you only had a few FS topics or posts and you really didn't have any money - that would be one thing, but clearly you have LOADS OF AIRSOFT GEAR and if you can afford all that - you can certainly afford $5 or $10 to help the website that has been helping you all these years.

Do I have other websites? certainly. Am I getting rich? No. From all the website that I have setup and manage, I am making less than $1,500 a month from all of them... I am also without a job and struggling to make ends meet just like everyone else. I have a wife (who also does not work) and 3 small children under the age of 5 to take care of. I have about 30 websites, some of them make a few bucks but most do not. It is everything I can do so stay alive, take care of my family and keep this system hog of an Airsoft website alive. I've been self employed since 1994 and the economy sucks so work and money has been very low for me and my family the last several years. If you consider $1,500 a month in income from a handful of websites, then also consider over $650 in server fees each month, $600 a month for rent, $300 a month for electric, water, cell phone bill, car insurance, gas, food, and misc - I am barely hanging in there. So go fu.ck yourself if you think I am taking advantage of you or anyone else around here.

You're asking me to continue providing something for you so that you don't have to pay for it?
How about you provide something for me so I don't have to pay, how does that sound?

How about together (as a community) we help each other so that the burden is no so overwhelming for any one person individually? How about you allow me and the staff here to create a website that is not only self sustaining but actually capable of producing some sort of income for myself and THEM (yes I plan to also compensate our moderators too one day when I can) ...without your insults and accusations from stupid a.ss immature children like yourself who don't have one clue what it takes to survive in this world let alone trying to maintain and manage a very large website / airsoft community.

#2 I am not going to ban or delete you (just yet), but it is damn tempting with your provoking me and your s.hitty attitude. I see you have a 50% warning on your member account and I suppose I should have checked that prior to adding you back to the free seller group the other day.

#3 if you "are only here to buy and sell" (take advantage of us for free) - then go. We need helpful and useful members here who contribute and help out... Not members who simply want to milk the system for everything they can possibly get out of it without helping one dime such as what you appear to be doing.

#4 Your comment: ""I'm starting to feel like you don't even care about members. First the whole SOA/authorized seller thing was about "protecting buyers". Now it's just flat out about money? You keep shuttling members through different processes, SOA, authorized seller, ASF auctions, now whatever the hell you're doing, it's ridiculous. """

...YOU SIR, ARE A FUC.KING IDIOT! I am "this close" to not just banning you, but deleting all of your posts, topics and entire member account. You had better start using your brain instead of your mouth. You have about 2 seconds to comply.

#5 by asking members to either pay or use the SOA website in order to post "for sale topics" here, yes this did cut down on members scamming each other contrary to your retarded statement above. And yes I do care about members here and anyone with half a brain or who has been around here for a little while can clearly know this so I don't know if you're just brain dead or trying to be argumentative.

#6 it takes money to sustain a serious website. Otherwise why don't we just shut it down now and setup a "free web" or a free forum somewhere like many of you have tried and let's see how far that works - shall we? If you have no idea what you're talking about - you need to just keep your mouth shut otherwise you allow people to see what an Ftard you are. How many times do I have to tell you that a single server costs about $150-$200 a month and we have 3 of them and are about to need a 4th one very soon. So if you think its wrong or of poor moral character for me to try and figure out how to have the website sustain itself - then yes there is a problem around here - but it's you.

And as to your retarded comment about ""...You keep shuttling members through different processes, SOA, authorized seller, ASF auctions, now whatever the hell you're doing, it's ridiculous....""

Airsoft Auctions is a ridiculous idea?
allowing people to continue selling here for free is a ridiculous idea?
creating paid member account options to help offset the server costs are ridiculous ideas?

You forgot a few... Airsoft Gallery, Airsoft Reviews, Airsoft raffle, the war-related game room / arcade system, the ASF radio...

These were attempts at bringing things around that you guys would appreciate you stupid _____ (fill in the blank for the best insult I can think of).

If your post was intended to piss me off, you succeed. If your post was intended to show everyone else how dumb you are, I think you succeed at that too. With retarded comments like the ones you just made, its no wonder why you have a 50% warning from our staff and moderators on your account... One more outburst of stupidity or retardation or provoking me or any other member (or what ever it is you're trying to do) and you are gone my friend, I don't care if you are only 14 years old. You have no right to talk to me this way. We don't need members like this around here.

What he's doing here is what I'd like to know as well (besides take advantage of or milking a system that he has no plans of contributing to positively). ...And no - we're not going to be adding advertisements and pop ups all over the place.

- no not possible as far as I know.



If you love to sell things and if you really do want to contribute here in a positive way, then you can easily afford to help us out with a few dollars each month instead of bitc.hing about it the loudest when you are not paying a dime.

Don't worry, I am not going to be making any radical changes without positive support from the majority of the members.

We are not going to be charging per topic - that's just plain dumb. For the 4th time, if someone would like to explain the ASR system in detail, we can consider their system

Also keep in mind that we (airsoftforum.com) passed up ASR a few months ago in terms of who is the larger (better) website according to traffic stats. If however, they have a BST system that works, let's look at it and model what they are doing if it works so well.



bumping your FS topic is not a dumb or bad idea if it is done properly. It allows the topic to be moved back to the front of the list after a certain amount of time has lapsed. +50 to Kavurcen for what? for being "this close" to be a horses a.ss and about to have his account deleted? If I don't ask for your financial support, how else am I suppose to continue to provide this website? Most of you are certainly not going to volunteer or donate on your own accord. God forbid you have to actually help pay for something you're using.

Yes this forum averages about 600-700 new members a month, but this is a free website - we are not charging those people money to join so I don't know what you're talking about. Only a very few people are actually paying for "Authorized Seller", and "Elite" member accounts.

And lastly, yes I agree with you that allowing members to pin /unpin their own topics could be a problem over time and these are the very reasons I have created a discussion about it here now. As I have said though, if the price is high enough a few people will pay it and that extra money will definitely help. I know there are many people that would gladly pay $30 a year to never have to bump their FS topics.

If there are many more people who can not pay for that, then so what? those people can continue to post their FS topics and bump them as they are currently doing.



#1 So your suggesting that only "normal folks" are the ones who are not paying for a service you're using?
#2 You're also assuming that placing slightly more restrictions on sellers (either making them pay or making them use SOA) did not reduce the scams and improve the quality of posts in the BST forums.
#3 Our traffic is large enough now that I could actually make everyone pay and that would not destroy ASF either. You can either believe me or you can continue to think that I have no idea what I'm doing here. Either way is fine, but I assure you a 14 year old punk like you doesn't know sh.it about who I am or what I am doing here so please be advised: one more outburst of stupid comments by you is not going to be a good thing for you so keep it up and watch what happens

This post has been edited by admin: Aug 25 2010, 01:41 PM

In all honesty I would just make everyone pay to post. How much money does SOA generate? Is it more than just having everyone pay $10 a year? People should realize that $10 a year is less than 3 cents a day. If you end up selling that mag or red dot in your closet, you pay for the cost to list the 10 guns you own and make hundreds of dollars. I have paid the seller fee twice now and as much as I would love the system to be free, it is $10. Less than a bag of bbs, less than an event charge, less than a trip to the movies. If you really need the extra income, look into paid only authorized sellers.

http://sportsonlyauction.com (SOA) actually does not charge any fees what so ever so we don't earn a dime from buyers or sellers over there. I have been trying for a few years to really get that website off the ground so that we could charge a fair fee to make it worth while and sustain itself., but it has been an uphill battle. I actually need to do something about SOA and soon because I can not continue to afford the growth of all these websites with little cash flow. I may be turning the fees back on over on SOA if I can get the traffic and listings up over there. If I can not, I may be forced to sell that website to someone who can afford it.

As far as "making everyone pay to post here in the BST", believe me that thought has crossed my mind but its a fine moral judgment line between trying to survive and being able to provide a free service to the less fortunate in order to benefit the airsoft community. Sure, I could easily sell out and just charge everyone, but then we'd be no different than many other websites. This is one of the reasons I do struggle so much. It's not about the money and its not about trying to get rich (contrary to what some di.ckheads think ^^). This website is about continuing to provide an outstanding and amazing airsoft website to everyone - not just those that can pay.

Thank you for the logic and reasoning. You make perfect sense to me, I don't know what some people's problem is :-)

Robert I see you ninja edited my post which if fine as it seems you trimmed off the fat and left the meat
Since people should lead by example not just words, on friday I will be making a donation, nothing extravagant but something to show I care if I can donate anyone can

This post has been edited by Xander Bolanos: Aug 25 2010, 02:20 PM

I didn't really alter any of your content or context, I mostly broke it up for better readability - you made some really good points and I didn't want them to go over-looked.. Thanks for the well - thought out comments, I sent an email to to john at pbnation and I am going to take a serious look at your many suggestions

In my opinion, SOA is a failed project. You keep trying to push the use of SOA by allowing free ads here, as opposed to paying for a yearly service (which I do). But, there's a reason why users like forum-based sales rather than auction-type sales - because it works better. With such a large community, almost EVERY airsoft forum I've ever been on has a classified section that is simply a "subforum" of the whole site. There is no need for SOA, as brutal as that may sound - I never go on it, and I know plenty of people here who never go on it.

Since no one has explained the ASR system (as I'm on there the most), I'll gladly oblige.

First, ASR has a similar payment system you do - $10 per year for unlimited ads, or $1 per ad. Most choose the unlimited option simply because it's more economical. However there are no alternatives - if you don't pay, you don't post ads. Of course this decreases traffic - not sure by how much, but I see a LOT of ads on ASR.

Secondly, sales are split into sections - AEG's, spring guns, parts, gear, etc, similar to Arnie's, ASB, GGI, and tons of other forums. Admin, if you want to improve something, IMPROVE ON THIS. Splitting the sale forums into general "type of sale" subforums may not be the most changing of moves, but it'll organize the forum at least a bit, allowing people to browse only a subforum if that's what they're looking for (I.e., I'll only browse for gear, GBB's, and AEG parts if I want to, and don't have to sift through the thousands of useless AEG ads).

The rest is basically different from any other forum-based ad method, which I don't 100% agree on. First, people post ads as normal, but pictures are uploaded directly to the site (no img links, but how the server supports it I don't know) as well as other info to, say, if a buyer directly wants to buy a product/ad he can and just paypal the seller. Buyers are allowed to edit their ad after time passes to update prices and inventory, but THE ITEMS DON'T GET BUMPED UP TO THE TOP OF THE LIST. They stay in their original posting date location, something I don't 100% agree on - I'm perfectly fine with the bumping of threads if the price/content has significantly changed, such as Arnie's. Replies are not allowed - messages are directly sent to the buyer via email. This eliminates thread crapping and useless comments altogether, since there is the ad to see, and NOTHING ELSE. Messages can be sent to the seller via a PM system (that, for some reason, is separate from the normal forum PM system).

Admin,
This is the only parts of your post that I care to reply to. With my post I didn't intend to offend or aggravate you in any way, and I apologize for doing so. I just want to say, if I didn't care about this forum I wouldn't have anything to do with it. But to be honest, I've dedicated a lot of time to it, and I'd like to see the BST become as great as the rest of the forum.

Also, as far as the ad banner concept goes... Popup ads were a bit of hyperbole. What I meant was adding maybe one or two more small banners to ASF forum pages. Most members (myself included) don't mind banner much because, due to their nature of being airsoft-related and the fact that many retailers offer discounts and other benefits to ASF users, see them not as advertisements but as guides to new retailers and conveniently-placed links.
All that I am saying is that I'd rather you add more banners because, not only would they likely bring in more revenue for the website and for yourself, but it would keep ASF in relatively the same state.


@ Admin/riptide... I don't believe 100% that SOA was a failed project. I think it was a step forward for ASF to integrate an ASR-style sale format. In fact, ASR sales are, simply put, a streamlined version of SOA integrated directly into the ASR website. To be completely honest, merging the existing SOA software into ASF (with a different theme to match) and an either unlimited-posting or per-ad system via paypal or credit card would be pretty much the ideal system. That way people just listing small items can choose to only pay a $1 fee for their single ad, or people like The Vainguard who list regularly can use the $10/year unlimited option which would be much more sensible for them. That way both people who sell guns casually and those who process nearly as much kit as a retailer both have a place in the system.

trust me I know what you're saying and I don't mind you're "being brutal"... another thing you left out is the fact that many people like to post one massive sales thread with loads of items listed - they can not do that on SOA - each item has to be listed separately. the only three reasons I keep pushing it are:

1. I need to some how provide a way for people to sell here on ASF for free and still create value for paid asf members. allowing people to post FS topics on here for free in exchange for using soa is one of the only ways I could think of. ..It's a "you help us, we help you" sort of thing... If anyone has another better idea on how I can allow people to sell for free here in addition to also being able to charge others for selling, please explain beacuse I thought the SOA thing was more than fair. Its a super easy website to use - far easier than ebay and another way to expose your items to an entirely different audience - so who knows...

2. another reason I continue to push http://sportsonlyauction.com (SOA) is because it is a far safer way to handle money transactions than on a forum via PM or email - hands down. there are much more safety measures in place and you can argue til your blue in the face but a website designed to handle money transactions is clearly better than a forum system that is not.

3. eventually if I could get people to use SOA (be it asf people or a whole new group of people from google or else where), yes, at some point I would like to turn the fees on and charge a few cents per listing over there.

I wouldn't say SOA is a failed project because I haven't given up on it totally yet, but I am beginning to lean in that direction if something doesn't change with it pretty soon. I have been spending a lot of time on SEO stuff for that website the last few days. If there is not marked improvement in the next few weeks, then yes it will have to go bye-bye cause I can't keep paying for the dedicated server it's on

Thanks for the heads up on ASR... and yes, I don't see a problem with organizing the FS topics into categories. In fact, I think I'll create a poll for that here in just a few minutes.

I feel the free-option is nice, though if you want guaranteed income, make it pay only, as it is on ASR (or so some have suggested). I'm not for this all the way, but I'm sure it'll provide you at least a more steady income for paying forum costs.

As for security, that's an issue with dealing on ANY forum - a seller/buyer NEEDS to know etiquette/rules of selling/buying before even going on the forum. If you don't know this, you probably shouldn't sell/buy. Most people keep here a good rep with sending payments/items on time, but even so (and with SOA), the only forum I've ever been scammed on is - drum roll - ASF.

lol.. well I agree with you on all accounts or both of your paragraphs. I just don't think I can go to an all paid system right now to force all sellers to pay. Ask me again when we're doing a million visitors a day - then that may be another story, but I owe it to the airsoft community to be able to provide a free platform to them. When I'm living under a bridge, I may have to re-think my logic but for now, it needs to stay free for some and paid for those than can.

now that the smoke has cleared from this heated debate on whether or not to allow certain members to pin / unpin their topics, please check the new topic to vote on the issue or continue the discussion:

http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/Sellers-...FS-t194059.html