Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

airsoft forum and discussion board

to add your 468x60 banner, pay ad zone 1

to remove these ads, simply sign up, log in & switch templates

Click Here for the Advanced ASF Search Tool
website template selector
Bookmark and Share

to place your ad here in Zone 3, click here
> CQB and room clearing
Rating 5 V
Guest_BattlePriest_*
post Oct 16 2003, 03:07 AM
Post #1





Guest




Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 0 (0%)
Add Feedback for Guest_BattlePriest_*


Back in my old paintball days, I played at a facility in downtown Davenport, IA. It was called Duck's Blind paintball and was an old hotel on 3rd street. 3 stories, 6 stairwells. 144 rooms, all the windows screened and boarded and all the doors removed. The only light was the light that made it in the windows through the cracks in the boards. This is where I first played paintball and where I learned to move quietly , approach corners, clear rooms, and how to acquire targets quickly. I only wish I had this kind of facility today to play airsoft in.

So This article is going to point out what I learned in this kind of environment about CQB and room clearing.

1.) Sounds

Depending on the furnishings in the building, talking to teammates can be OK or a no no. If the rooms are carpeted and there are drapes or curtains or upholstered furniture, you can get away with a little low level talking. If there are hardwood floors though, or the buildings rooms are sparsely furnished..voices travel like wildfire. Also pay close attention to heating vents. I don't know how many times my team won over others because the opposing teams talked out loud as if they were playing outdoors in the woods...thats a no no indoors..hand signals only...we knew where they were all the time.

2.) Sight alignment.

When your in a CQB environment, you need to be able to bring your sights up quickly as things happen VERY fast. However, you also need to have a clear view ahead, especially if the rooms and hallways are dimly lit. So how you hold your weapon is crucial For pistols, you want to have your weapon extended ahead, just below your eye level, your off hand cupped under the grip or at the side of your primary hand. For SMGs and small rifles you want the stock in your shoulder just a little above your armpit. The barrel nose down at about a 35-45 degree angle, to keep your forward vision clear. Both hands on the weapon. The both hands is important, its easier and faster to steady your aim with 2 hands than with 1.

3.) Approaching corners

I'm sure you've seen it..in the movies, two guys with guns..one on each side of the corner 3 feet from each other ready to jump out..doesnt that seem stupid..well it is. When you are approaching a corner or room in a hallway or into a room with no door you want to be as far away from the corner as you can as you approach. if your going to be going around the right side, then you approach the corner against the left side wall, with your sights raised just below your eyes with the gun ALWAYS pointed right at the corner. If there is reason to suspect danger from the opposite corner, such as in a room just across the hall from the one your clearing..then you have a second man doing just the same you are across from you...but several feet back. This way..they will have sight of any danger in that room before anyone in that room can see you...its all about angles... As you get even with the doorway, and you are facing the door from directly across the hall, if you still haven't seen anything, just keep going doing the exact opposite down the hall walking backwards...your cover man approaching the door just as you did...once every possible viewable angle inside the room has been seen..then you can breech...and when you do you know the only areas you should have to worry about are the small angles exact opposite the outside walls that you could not see when clearing the room, or any closets or cabinetry.

I'll write more later...any comments/critiques or corrections on this are welcome and requested.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
WTA_Delta
post Nov 7 2005, 12:07 PM
Post #2


Ming_the_Merciless


Group: user_has_broken_email
Posts: 1,278
Joined: 26-September 04
From: Wichita, Kansas
Member No.: 10,672

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 0 (0%)
Add Feedback for WTA_Delta


QUOTE (jasonnoguchi @ Nov 7 2005, 08:15 AM) *
Hi CQB fans,

I see a few talk about how to hold pistol in a CQB environment and I wish to put a little input of mine here.

I am a real world Naval Special Warfare operative specialising in ship storming... I.e, one of the tightest CQB situation ever. In the real world, we are forced to hold our pistols arm extended pointing down or up or close to chest and quickly bringing it up when contacted is because of one simple reason... RECOIL.

In contrast, if our guns have NO RECOIL and work as well (like in airsoft), the best position I would like it is a double or single hand hold, primary hand against my lips, gun and trigger finger pointed forward at all times. The pistol being an inch or so from my master eye. Both eyes open with full awareness of the environment. Even better if pistol has a reflex red dot. The moment I am contacted, a double tap goes straight to whoever I see ahead and then refocus attention onto sights for the second round of aimed shots if tango is not already neutralised. This very close stance work well when coming around corners and especially if tango is hidden very very close to the inner wall such that if your weapon enters too far ahead of you, you will not get the first shot.

Jason


Wait, I thought the reason the secondary weapon was held closer to the chest is due to the tight nature of CQB. And at a moment notice often times discharging your weapon will not be effective, you will have to either transition to a knife, or use some melee weapon, fist and etc to kill the opponent.

And I am not sure if DEVGRU uses airsoft for training purposes. But it would seem to me that you would want to use real-steel firing methods for airsoft, to maximize skills moving with a firearms in a real-world environment. Having to learn and develop another firing technique that is contradictive to what is taught for real-steel would complicate the muscle memory development that training helps to cultivate.

My own prefered stance and firing method in CQB, is when moving having my pistol fully extended but pointed slightly downward, when I acquire a target align the sights up with either center mass or the head and using a double tap or single shot method. I recall reading that Delta derived shooting methods from the SAS and IDF (Israeli Defense Forces), not sure exactly what method that is, or if it has changed, but someone else can add to this dicussion would be great. On the exact method Delta uses.

From what I remember from a SEAL documentary, the shooting method they showed, was a solider with an M4 moving through a shooting course, he took down first and and second target, simulated a weapons malfunction, jam/stovepipe, and then transitioned to his secondary which was on a pistol lanyard. From the remaining targets, he fired two shots center mass, and one to the head. Not quite the method you described earlier.

Then again, I am not sure if this is a SOP for firing pistols in all environments, or if that changes for different operating areas, aircraft, ships, buildings, and etc. But if you could better clarify on the method Naval Special Warfare Operations uses that would be great.

This post has been edited by WTA_Delta: Nov 7 2005, 12:11 PM


--------------------
"I am prepared to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter" -Winston Churchill
"Train as you fight!"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jasonnoguchi
post Nov 21 2005, 09:56 AM
Post #3


ASF Citizen


Group: Member
Posts: 85
Joined: 6-October 05
Member No.: 15,778

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 0 (0%)
Add Feedback for jasonnoguchi


No, what I have said is definitely not SOP but you need to understand that real steel tactics DIFFER from airsoft tactics. All SOPs are optimised for the equipment and situation that we most commonly face. IF you have a real steel pistol that does not recoil... would you still hold out and lock your elbows just because the ones with recoil require you to do so? Now, if you really have a pistol that does not recoil, how will you optimise its characteristics for your use?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- BattlePriest   CQB and room clearing   Oct 16 2003, 03:07 AM
- - Hollywood   Good stuff !!!   Oct 16 2003, 10:39 AM
- - admin   QUOTE Originally posted by Hollywood@Oct 16 2003, ...   Oct 16 2003, 06:32 PM
- - BattlePriest   QUOTE I disagree, why would there need to be any t...   Oct 16 2003, 07:32 PM
- - BattlePriest   My next installment: 4. Squad assignment and SOP ...   Oct 17 2003, 12:49 AM
- - zerocool5468   Thanks Battlepriest and admin, that's very goo...   Dec 23 2003, 02:47 PM
- - bravo six   Pardon me for bringing this old discussion up agai...   Feb 4 2004, 07:36 AM
- - Domskidan   QUOTE Pardon me for bringing this old discussion u...   Feb 4 2004, 05:48 PM
- - Magnum   In Manassas, VA, a new CQB Airsoft center is being...   Feb 4 2004, 08:25 PM
|- - natrium   QUOTE (Magnum @ Feb 4 2004, 08:25 PM) In ...   Dec 20 2007, 12:02 PM
- - Leprechaunrobot   Does anyone know if there are any places to play C...   Feb 26 2004, 04:59 PM
- - SexNdanger   You guys need to get your hands on some FM's l...   Feb 26 2004, 05:11 PM
- - BattlePriest   There was, then there wasnt.... or there might be....   Feb 26 2004, 05:14 PM
- - 5cent   Im not sure whether or not to expect a peply to th...   Feb 27 2004, 03:19 PM
- - TTT   I have read that they are building a CQB place in ...   May 21 2004, 01:15 PM
- - Shalashaska   What about "slicing the pie"?   Jun 5 2004, 10:00 AM
- - BiGGieNick   QUOTE Originally posted by Shalashaska@Jun 5 2004,...   Jun 5 2004, 01:02 PM
- - Omaha   QUOTE Originally posted by BattlePriest@Oct 17 200...   Jun 22 2004, 02:20 PM
- - WTA_Delta   Advancement   Nov 15 2004, 01:07 PM
- - falloutboy33   QUOTE (BattlePriest)For pistols, you want to have ...   Nov 15 2004, 01:30 PM
- - BattlePriest   QUOTE (falloutboy33)doen't most cqb school teach y...   Nov 15 2004, 02:07 PM
- - falloutboy33   QUOTE (BattlePriest)Disarming is not allowed in ai...   Nov 15 2004, 03:47 PM
- - BattlePriest   QUOTE (falloutboy33)yeah, I never did like that ru...   Nov 15 2004, 04:21 PM
- - MC.Escher   I would just like to say that all of this CQB stuf...   Nov 15 2004, 05:42 PM
- - WTA_Delta   QUOTE (Omaha) Most SWAT raids are done in lar...   Nov 16 2004, 12:16 PM
- - WTA_Delta   Pistol Position   Nov 16 2004, 12:55 PM
- - BattlePriest   QUOTE (WTA_Delta)He completely right. SWAT first t...   Nov 16 2004, 01:52 PM
- - falloutboy33   oh snap! that swat guy in the first picture is hol...   Nov 16 2004, 10:29 PM
- - WTA_Delta   SWAT Application to Airsoft   Nov 17 2004, 09:24 AM
- - WTA_Delta   Haha   Nov 17 2004, 09:27 AM
- - ThegunsofNevada   This is all very neat, but very accademic. The fac...   Nov 18 2004, 12:24 AM
- - BattlePriest   QUOTE (ThegunsofNevada)There is NOTHING more satis...   Nov 18 2004, 01:20 AM
- - ThegunsofNevada   YOU might not... Richocets werent a fact in the a...   Nov 18 2004, 08:20 PM
|- - Irishman   ***EDIT*** Irishman... I went ahead an approved y...   Feb 24 2005, 09:58 PM
- - Agent Hunk   I watched a 3 DVD special on Counter Terrorist uni...   Mar 3 2005, 04:52 PM
- - jballou   At the games I go to people have a hard enough tim...   Mar 3 2005, 07:20 PM
- - PYRONEER   You can always try telling people good tactics but...   Mar 4 2005, 11:43 AM
- - Omaga   I would like to offer a different approach to corn...   Mar 10 2005, 11:36 PM
- - Omaha   Are you referring to "slicing the pie" A...   Mar 20 2005, 03:01 PM
- - Zync   Wow, this thread has been really helpful, especial...   Apr 21 2005, 04:41 PM
- - Omaha   Well, if is just you by yourself, you approach the...   Apr 26 2005, 09:03 PM
|- - Semper   I found this topic and thought is was some good st...   Jul 4 2006, 11:27 PM
- - Comet[DELTA]   I posted this in another thread but figured this w...   May 27 2005, 11:12 PM
- - jasonnoguchi   Hi CQB fans, I see a few talk about how to hold p...   Nov 7 2005, 09:15 AM
- - WTA_Delta   QUOTE (jasonnoguchi @ Nov 7 2005, 08:15 A...   Nov 7 2005, 12:07 PM
|- - jasonnoguchi   No, what I have said is definitely not SOP but you...   Nov 21 2005, 09:56 AM
- - WTA_Delta   QUOTE (jasonnoguchi @ Nov 21 2005, 07:56 ...   Nov 21 2005, 12:21 PM
- - spacemarine5   Thought you guys might want to know, there's a...   Jun 4 2006, 09:10 AM
- - Shike   I would like to add to this discussion a bit. I...   Jun 15 2006, 01:55 AM
- - Sir Robin   Hi all. Im new to this forum, but I just read thi...   Feb 28 2008, 06:24 AM
- - (Airsoft)Defender   Work on your snap shooting.   Mar 30 2008, 08:21 PM


to add your banner to our network, click here
Reply to this topicStart new topic
4 User(s) are reading this topic (4 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


to remove these ads, simply sign up, log in & switch templates



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 24th May 2012 - 03:05 AM

ShellbackTactical.com ACMGear.com AsiaAirsoft.com YZH.hkm TrinityAirsoft.com
AirsoftRC.com AirsoftArmada.com WGCshop.com Evike.com Vote for us
to add your 180x30 banner here, pay ad zone 2

If you enjoy using this website, please please support us financially with a small donation or upgrade your account. If you can not help us financially,
then at least help us by telling a friend about us and share us on your favorite social networking website.

content copyright AirsoftForum.com 2003-2012 an Airsoft Forum, Airsoft Chat Room, Airsoft Auctions, Airsoft Reviews, and Airsoft Classified Ads Community
Get airsoft guns and more with award winning customer service at Trinity Airsoft.
to add your Text Link here, pay ad zone 3