I posted this in another thread but figured this was a better place for it.

Hi CQB fans,

I see a few talk about how to hold pistol in a CQB environment and I wish to put a little input of mine here.

I am a real world Naval Special Warfare operative specialising in ship storming... I.e, one of the tightest CQB situation ever. In the real world, we are forced to hold our pistols arm extended pointing down or up or close to chest and quickly bringing it up when contacted is because of one simple reason... RECOIL.

In contrast, if our guns have NO RECOIL and work as well (like in airsoft), the best position I would like it is a double or single hand hold, primary hand against my lips, gun and trigger finger pointed forward at all times. The pistol being an inch or so from my master eye. Both eyes open with full awareness of the environment. Even better if pistol has a reflex red dot. The moment I am contacted, a double tap goes straight to whoever I see ahead and then refocus attention onto sights for the second round of aimed shots if tango is not already neutralised. This very close stance work well when coming around corners and especially if tango is hidden very very close to the inner wall such that if your weapon enters too far ahead of you, you will not get the first shot.

Jason

Wait, I thought the reason the secondary weapon was held closer to the chest is due to the tight nature of CQB. And at a moment notice often times discharging your weapon will not be effective, you will have to either transition to a knife, or use some melee weapon, fist and etc to kill the opponent.

And I am not sure if DEVGRU uses airsoft for training purposes. But it would seem to me that you would want to use real-steel firing methods for airsoft, to maximize skills moving with a firearms in a real-world environment. Having to learn and develop another firing technique that is contradictive to what is taught for real-steel would complicate the muscle memory development that training helps to cultivate.

My own prefered stance and firing method in CQB, is when moving having my pistol fully extended but pointed slightly downward, when I acquire a target align the sights up with either center mass or the head and using a double tap or single shot method. I recall reading that Delta derived shooting methods from the SAS and IDF (Israeli Defense Forces), not sure exactly what method that is, or if it has changed, but someone else can add to this dicussion would be great. On the exact method Delta uses.

From what I remember from a SEAL documentary, the shooting method they showed, was a solider with an M4 moving through a shooting course, he took down first and and second target, simulated a weapons malfunction, jam/stovepipe, and then transitioned to his secondary which was on a pistol lanyard. From the remaining targets, he fired two shots center mass, and one to the head. Not quite the method you described earlier.

Then again, I am not sure if this is a SOP for firing pistols in all environments, or if that changes for different operating areas, aircraft, ships, buildings, and etc. But if you could better clarify on the method Naval Special Warfare Operations uses that would be great.

This post has been edited by WTA_Delta: Nov 7 2005, 12:11 PM

No, what I have said is definitely not SOP but you need to understand that real steel tactics DIFFER from airsoft tactics. All SOPs are optimised for the equipment and situation that we most commonly face. IF you have a real steel pistol that does not recoil... would you still hold out and lock your elbows just because the ones with recoil require you to do so? Now, if you really have a pistol that does not recoil, how will you optimise its characteristics for your use?

I would still use the same real-steel firing technique, regradless, if it was laser tag, or airsoft. Since I use real-steel I don't want the two to mesh or become confusing, especially since I am not trained hard enough that my muscle memory/discpline won't intermix. To remedy that problem, I just stick to one, real-steel, thus reducing confusion.

Thought you guys might want to know, there's a great CQB place opening in Denver called the Paintball, Airsoft, and Reball Center (PARC). It's pretty cool.

I would like to add to this discussion a bit.

In regards to cornering and changing hands. Do you guys change your hands completely when cornering? Or do you simply change shoulders? I prefer simply switching the stock over to the other shoulder. It is a bit awkward at first but try it! It really works when you need a quick changeover! Especially when a sling is involved. I usually switch hands when in the field using some cover, but in CQC, you need a quick changeover.

Feedback wanted!

note: I have posted on this before, but now that everyone is together...

I found this topic and thought is was some good stuff, and that the newer people of the forum may like to read it.

It's a great place, My favorite game is attack and defend embassy, especially when I'm attacking.


Natrium

This post has been edited by natrium: Dec 20 2007, 12:04 PM

Hi all.

Im new to this forum, but I just read this topic and I think that you might find some usfull info on my site:
www.cqb-team.com

Work on your snap shooting.