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> The Crosman 1077 Platform Rifle, A sane airgun to airsoft modification discussion
mcnuggets
post May 20 2007, 05:20 PM
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**Okay everyone, I understand that talk of converting airguns to airsoft is a bit taboo on these boards. But I want to ensure that limiting the power is of the utmost importance. I don't want to injure anyone with this device.**

With that being said here's a picture of the Crosman 1077:



The airgun fires 0.177 pellets at ~625 fps and costs about $100. It runs off of CO2 and has a 12 pellet rotary magazine. It is obviously within the power limits of other overpriced airsoft rifles for the cost of a Super 9 (even cheaper if you opt for the plastic stock version). It seems like a great platform to modify into an airsoft rifle. And there's even an online community dedicated to modifying the 1077:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/246966/

There's also some accessories that can convert it from a bulk air source (like a paintball tank):

http://www.cooper-t.com/airguns.html

Now it seems a few things need to be modified before 6mm BB's can be fired from it. The magazine, the barrel and maybe the breech. The valves would also need to be adjusted to downgrade the power (or a downgraded UK version can be bought that already does most of the work). Any thoughts on this? I'd like to go over to Walmart and pick one of these up and tinker with it. It seems like it would open the doors to a more reasonably priced airsoft sniper platform that is more than capable of reaching the desired velocity without hundreds of dollars in upgrades. Hell my cheap Daisy pump pneumatic rifle gets more than most airsoft sniper rifles for a fraction of the cost. Well any thoughts on this?

This post has been edited by mcnuggets: May 20 2007, 05:21 PM
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post May 20 2007, 05:25 PM
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QUOTE (mcnuggets @ May 20 2007, 05:20 PM) *
**Okay everyone, I understand that talk of converting airguns to airsoft is a bit taboo on these boards. But I want to ensure that limiting the power is of the utmost importance. I don't want to injure anyone with this device.**

With that being said here's a picture of the Crosman 1077:

The airgun fires 0.177 pellets at ~625 fps and costs about $100. It runs off of CO2 and has a 12 pellet rotary magazine. It is obviously within the power limits of other overpriced airsoft rifles for the cost of a Super 9 (even cheaper if you opt for the plastic stock version). It seems like a great platform to modify into an airsoft rifle. And there's even an online community dedicated to modifying the 1077:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/246966/

There's also some accessories that can convert it from a bulk air source (like a paintball tank):

http://www.cooper-t.com/airguns.html

Now it seems a few things need to be modified before 6mm BB's can be fired from it. The magazine, the barrel and maybe the breech. The valves would also need to be adjusted to downgrade the power (or a downgraded UK version can be bought that already does most of the work). Any thoughts on this? I'd like to go over to Walmart and pick one of these up and tinker with it. It seems like it would open the doors to a more reasonably priced airsoft sniper platform that is more than capable of reaching the desired velocity without hundreds of dollars in upgrades. Hell my cheap Daisy pump pneumatic rifle gets more than most airsoft sniper rifles for a fraction of the cost. Well any thoughts on this?




That sounds pretty sweet. You'd have to use at least .3's, though. I think that you should go for it.
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coolduderyan07
post May 20 2007, 05:26 PM
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I think it would be a great Idea. If you can find the time to modify the outerbarrel to fit a 6mm inner barrel, then go for it. If worse comes to worst, you can manually load each bb, the breach and mag might be a bit hard to carve out for 6mm bbs.. but it would definately be worth it. As long as you adjusted the valves to reduce the power, it sound like an amazing idea. I wanted to do this with my pellet rifle aswell. I tried modding the breach to accept an airsoft inner barrel, but it was made with solid steel, and I just gave up.
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RocketPropeldCor...
post May 20 2007, 06:26 PM
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I wouldn't do it. BB guns should not be used for airsoft games. Even if you do mod them there is garrentee that it would be safe. Just leave airsoft to airsoft and BB guns to BB guns.


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yakuzaninja
post May 20 2007, 08:32 PM
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yea RPK has a point, leave airsoft to airsoft man.

its not a good idea cause there is no flawless way to do it lest your some sort of gunsmith (highly doubtful)
and for about 120 bucks more u could just buy a utg mk96.


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physhphude
post May 20 2007, 08:32 PM
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Not as easy as it sounds.

There is no "inner barrel" in pellet guns, pellet guns arn't made cheaply like airsoft guns. They have a solid steel barrel. No way to reem this out to the correct size, so you'll have to buy an inner barrel. hopup unit and make an outer barrel.

First major problem: hopup unit: most feed from the bottom. The 1077 uses a rotary magazine. Which means you need to create a new hopup unit, along with magazine/barrel interface to prevent from losing compression.

power: the 1077 is 8 joules. An airsoft gun barely reaches 1 joule. Big problem. I don't even know if a 1077's valve will function at one joule.

I see people complain about gearboxes. Gearboxes are a walk in the park compared to co2 valves and multishot airguns. Especially a double action airgun such as the 1077. The 1077 is Not semi-automatic, it is double action.

The valve in a co2 gun is very sensitive, change the hammer spring too light and it wont open. Make the valve spring too light and the gun dumps all the co2. You need to find the balance. The valve dosnt open easy like an airsoft pistol, it requires a spring driven hammer to strike the valve stem.

Because the 1077 is double action with a rotary magazine (basically a revolver) Reeming out the magazine won't be easy. Especially since the walls that hold the pellets is very small. You would need to fabricate your own magazine, and reduce the number of teeth on the wheel so that it cycles and indexes correctly. Without a mill, you will never be able to make this.

I see this project as nothing but an exercise in fustration. The 1077 design does not lend itself to change in calibers.

While possible, unless you have a lot of skill in machining, and working with airguns, you'll probably end up with a bag of parts.

The only possible converson from airgun to airsoft gun I see is in .22 caliber airguns. There is only .5 difference. One gun in particular, the Crosman 38c.

The gun actually does have a two piece barrel, though it's inner barrel is substantially thicker then an airsoft inner barrel. Spacers could take care of this. There is no room for a conventional hopup unit, so you'll have to make one yourself. (Rubber sleeve with BB in place. Drill a hole in the outer barrel, tap a screw to adjust hopup.)

The magazine is hardened steel, but it can be reemed out. The well to load the pellets might also need to be reemed out.

Get the barrel and magazine sorted, you need to look at reducing the power next. It shoots about 5-7 joules. The hammer spring could be softened untill the power was low enough. You might have to drill holes in the hammer to lighten it.

then you are done. You'll have a 6 shot revolver that will shoot in excess of 600 fps with the heaviest bbs you can find.

I actually have a 38t. The problem with doing this however is the 38t stopped production about 25 years ago. Anything you find now will be mint condition and very expensive, or non functioning and requiring a reseal.

The 38t is one of the most difficult guns I have worked on, quite a bit more difficult then a gearbox.
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mcnuggets
post May 20 2007, 08:47 PM
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Okay here's an idea. How about a Crosman 600 with one of those bulk magazines. Also instead of using traditional BB's you use RAP4's airfins:



This would solve the hop-up problem. THen you find some airsmith to get you a 6mm smoothbore barrel and you're set. The only problem being the 600 is out of production. But prices seem reasonable (~$120)

This post has been edited by mcnuggets: May 20 2007, 08:55 PM
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physhphude
post May 21 2007, 01:56 PM
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QUOTE (mcnuggets @ May 20 2007, 09:47 PM) *
Okay here's an idea. How about a Crosman 600 with one of those bulk magazines. Also instead of using traditional BB's you use RAP4's airfins:



This would solve the hop-up problem. THen you find some airsmith to get you a 6mm smoothbore barrel and you're set. The only problem being the 600 is out of production. But prices seem reasonable (~$120)


Good luck finding a 600 for 120. If you do let me know.
A working 600 will run you 200.

The 600 is very ammo sensitive. The airfins need to be the same length as .22 wadcutters.

You will also have to reem out the internal magazine, and feed arm.

Once you do that, the gun is still far too powerful. I don't think you understand the concept of how much more powerful airguns are than airsoft guns.

You are better off building a co2 rifle based off of a spring rifle.
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mcnuggets
post May 21 2007, 02:08 PM
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Now what if I add a regulator onto it. Run it externally like the old classic rifles if need be. Just as long as I bring the pressure down so it isn't feeding it pure CO2. That might have an effect on velocity. And, yeah, after looking around some more 600's they do seem a bit expensive. Are there any 0.22 semiautomatic (or double action) airguns out there where something like this might be possible?

You might be right about the spring gun a-nonod.gif.

I must say it's frustrating to walk into Walmart and see these airguns not chambered for 6mm. A 500 fps airsoft gun we're all trying to upgrade to would be no problem. Plus most of them use extensive amounts of steel and wood unlike our Japanese cousins who attempt to cut costs through any means necessary.
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mcnuggets
post May 21 2007, 02:20 PM
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Another potential Sheridan based gun that might be worthy of conversion is the PGP.



There are so many accessories already available for it already. The top two tubes would need to be taken off, the bolt would need to be replaced. Add a longer barrel onto it it and a nice looking grip and stock and there you have it. A viable airsoft sniper rifle.
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physhphude
post May 21 2007, 03:29 PM
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What exactly are you trying to make?

A co2 sniper rifle?
This is very possible.
A good platform would be a 2240.

You would need to create your own upper reciever however.

Hm If anyone has a 6mm barrel they would like to donate I could try this out.

I think it would be able to get around 100 shots per cartridge, and also the power could be adjustable from 300-800+ fps. It wouldn't be too difficult to create a bolt action using an existing magazine, though the magazine may have to be top mounted.
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mcnuggets
post May 21 2007, 05:54 PM
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Yeah, I'm basically going for a CO2 sniper rifle. The 2240 looks promising. Sheridan parts and accessories can probably be used to customize it to a large extent. However how would a magazine be attached. A top mounted spring loaded type magazine similar to the PGP? The barrel would need to be bored out or replaced all together. The breech and the bolt might also need to be bored out. You seem like a real expert when it comes to this physh, I appreciate your advice. Do you think adapting the 2240 might be feasible?

This post has been edited by mcnuggets: May 21 2007, 05:55 PM
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mcnuggets
post May 21 2007, 06:08 PM
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www.emachineshop.com seems very promising when it comes to custom parts. Maybe I can contact Mac1 or some other online airsmith to make me a 6mm one piece barrel. I'd say that relying on airfins would be best since manufacturing a reliable hop-up would be difficult. The only difficult project destroying step would be the magazine. Even if a top mounted PGP-style (or Remington shotgun style) feeding system were made I don't know if those airfins would like be bunched up like that. I think even with airguns a feed system like that you need to use flat target pellets oppose to pointed hunting pellets.
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physhphude
post May 22 2007, 11:25 AM
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I've worked quite a bit with co2 airguns. I have a 2240 too.

A new breech would need to be machined.

An AEG magazine, such as a short mp5, short g36, or short m16, magazine could be used.

The easiest would be to have a top or side mounted magazine, becasue the overall layout of the 2240 dosn't need to be altered. But you would need to offset the scope.

So basically, you need to: modify the 2240 powerplant to produce much less power.
Machine a breech, bolt, and magazine well.

The bolt is linked to the hammer. Cocking the bolt cocks the hammer, and chambers a bb. The hopup unit. Which would be nothing more then a slit in the barrel, with an oring and shrinkwrap to seal it. And a setscrew ontop to adjust the hopup.

For the barrel assembly, just simply use an existing innerbarrel. The outerbarrel would just be some steel tubing attached to the breech.

I have a mill, lathe, etc. I just need a barrel. If I decide to do this, I'll probably buy a tightbore.

The next step would be to make it semi automatic. A semi auto gas sniper rifle doing 400+ with the heaviest bbs, .4? would be quite effective in a squad with a couple of other aegs.
Sort of a like a DMR but with over twice the effective range.
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mcnuggets
post May 22 2007, 02:59 PM
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Man I wish I had a mill and a lathe. The breech along with the magazine locking mechanism is going to be tricky to machine it would seem. I think another Sheridan based gun that might have potential is an Autococker. They're cheap, they have a ton of accessories, they can be made semiautomatic but they would just look ugly as sin in an airsoft game. The two major tasks that I forsee in using that would be a modified top block and a new bolt.
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azoneman
post May 23 2007, 01:09 PM
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With the time and money you spend on it, you could easily buy a rifle made for airsoft. FPS isn't everything.


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Hari
post May 23 2007, 02:50 PM
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QUOTE (azoneman @ May 23 2007, 08:09 PM) *
With the time and money you spend on it, you could easily buy a rifle made for airsoft. FPS isn't everything.



Agree with that, you will probably spend the same amount of money/time in something less safe for the rest of the players or for you too.

And its not sure you make it run.


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