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> A GBB DMR, Is it possible?
slickseal
post Mar 24 2013, 03:19 PM
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I have been thinking about getting a GBBR for a while now, and I was wondering if it is possible to get 250ft+ range out one without a ton of upgrading.
I am aware that GBBR's are inherently inconsistent, wich affects accuracy and that it will probably be pretty expensive to do this.
I guess my real question is, is it realistic to try and compete with all the r-hopped AEGs out there?

I've been looking at the lm4, and it seems to have a pretty consistent gas system, but it seems to have fewer aftermarket upgrades (if any) than WA based gun.

Whats your opinion?
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Guges Mk3
post Mar 24 2013, 03:33 PM
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I would not attempt it on a KWA.

And I would not attempt it if your play environment fluctuates in temperature at a seasonal level.


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sniperx2s
post Mar 24 2013, 04:20 PM
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you could tap the magazine to regulated HPA. that'll solve the consistency problem.


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Paul202
post Mar 24 2013, 05:00 PM
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QUOTE (slickseal @ Mar 24 2013, 04:19 PM) *
I have been thinking about getting a GBBR for a while now, and I was wondering if it is possible to get 250ft+ range out one without a ton of upgrading.
I am aware that GBBR's are inherently inconsistent, wich affects accuracy and that it will probably be pretty expensive to do this.
I guess my real question is, is it realistic to try and compete with all the r-hopped AEGs out there?

I've been looking at the lm4, and it seems to have a pretty consistent gas system, but it seems to have fewer aftermarket upgrades (if any) than WA based gun.

Whats your opinion?

KJW M4 w/ Cradle Airsoft TDC mod and a longer inner barrel.
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slickseal
post Mar 24 2013, 06:14 PM
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Okay, I live in Texas, so temperature is pretty much 90 and up 80% of the year.
Why not the LM$? Would a WE open bolt be a option?
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Guges Mk3
post Mar 25 2013, 07:41 AM
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QUOTE (sniperx2s @ Mar 24 2013, 04:20 PM) *
you could tap the magazine to regulated HPA. that'll solve the consistency problem.


That will kill reload...not a smart idea.


QUOTE (slickseal @ Mar 24 2013, 06:14 PM) *
Okay, I live in Texas, so temperature is pretty much 90 and up 80% of the year.
Why not the LM$? Would a WE open bolt be a option?


You said it yourself....spare parts.

WE...your going to pay for modding that.

KJW is not high on the spare/upgrade parts either.

There are many WOC's out there and the parts are more plentiful. While its not the Best platform...its the one where you can get "many" sets of parts for it. I built out a M16A3 for a client back 3 years ago and just having a 20" barrel with stock components netted a 470fps shooter with .20g bbs at 75 degree ambient temps. In 80-90 degree temps...you will hit 500fps easy.



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sniperx2s
post Mar 25 2013, 10:09 AM
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QUOTE (Guges Mk3 @ Mar 25 2013, 08:41 AM) *
That will kill reload...not a smart idea.


then mod the magazine to accept a hi cap, and run the HPA line to the gas mag.

someone with a g39 did it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sa39MjE8KI


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Guges Mk3
post Mar 25 2013, 01:36 PM
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QUOTE (sniperx2s @ Mar 25 2013, 10:09 AM) *
then mod the magazine to accept a hi cap, and run the HPA line to the gas mag.

someone with a g39 did it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sa39MjE8KI


Still very awkward for reloading and it kills the realism being tethered and it doesn't have the handy mag clamps.

However, in Texas...he is not going to have low power issues.

You should check out Gasguns.info and see what others have already done.


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sniperx2s
post Mar 25 2013, 03:09 PM
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well, its not about low power issues, its about consistency. people tap bolt action mags to HPA all the time to prevent cool down issues.

I don't see how one can get a GBBR to get super consistent FPS without tapping a mag to HPA.


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mad scientist
post Mar 26 2013, 10:12 PM
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Yes GBBR can be made into DMRs. Consistent gas sniper rifles have been around for a long time now. The problem is consistency in gas wether its bolt action or semi. This is solved via an external regulated gas source. This doesnt have to be cumbersome either. I built a KC02 modified to run off of a 12g adapter screwed into a palmer regulator all attached to the gun.

Your real question though is...is it realistic to compete with AEGs and the answer is no. GBBR are all about realism. Limited mag capacity and recoil and such. AEGs...300rnd mag possibility and no recoil. Which do you think will end up being more effective?

Also the r-hop is a gimmick...getting the patches tuned correctly takes a ton of effort for not much advantage(none really, in fact it was worse in my experience) over a flat hop with a few consistency tweaks. R-hop is a great concept but fails unless you shovel tons of tuning time into it.

This post has been edited by mad scientist: Mar 26 2013, 10:17 PM
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sniperx2s
post Mar 27 2013, 05:56 AM
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worse... in YOUR experience? Great concept but fails unless you shovel tons of tuning time into it?

that says more about the you than the R-Hop. I hope you realize that the R-Hop and the flat hop operate on the exact same concept, except that the R-Hop is a massive improvement.





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Guges Mk3
post Mar 27 2013, 08:26 AM
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QUOTE (sniperx2s @ Mar 25 2013, 03:09 PM) *
well, its not about low power issues, its about consistency. people tap bolt action mags to HPA all the time to prevent cool down issues.

I don't see how one can get a GBBR to get super consistent FPS without tapping a mag to HPA.


With the limited capacity of the GBBR mags. Cool down is not going to be an issue in Texas. Remember...he is not blasting 300 shots out in 10 seconds, its a DMR.

90 degree day with a moderately high vapor point gas, that GBBR will be consistent withing ~10 fps from first to last shot in a 50 round mag and under ~5 fps in a 30 round mag. Now if you use a low vapor point gas...sure there will be cool down, even in Texas. But, whose fault is that? The user that's who, they used the wrong gas.

This post has been edited by Guges Mk3: Mar 27 2013, 08:32 AM


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sniperx2s
post Mar 27 2013, 04:01 PM
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people don't blast out shots with bolt actions either but they still tap it to HPA.


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Adog112
post Mar 27 2013, 05:16 PM
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I think you guys misunderstand Texas weather haha. I live in the Dallas area. It was 45 degrees the other day, and will be about 80 in a few days. The weather fluctuates REGULARLY, and it gets cold here. HPA would be a huge benefit to a gas gun. Summers here EASILY hit 110+ degrees, which would make his DMR unusable here due to FPS restrictions. At my field, 450 FPS is the DMR limit. HPA would make him be able to regulate it up for cold and down for hot, and remove any consistency issues related to the gas. A tightbore and TDC mod would work great.

SOAP could offer more insight if you want to PM him, his GBBRs are unbelievably accurate, 250 ft hits regularly. He could reveal some secrets if you're nice haha.


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Guges Mk3
post Mar 28 2013, 08:40 AM
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QUOTE (Adog112 @ Mar 27 2013, 05:16 PM) *
I think you guys misunderstand Texas weather haha. I live in the Dallas area. It was 45 degrees the other day, and will be about 80 in a few days. The weather fluctuates REGULARLY, and it gets cold here. HPA would be a huge benefit to a gas gun. Summers here EASILY hit 110+ degrees, which would make his DMR unusable here due to FPS restrictions. At my field, 450 FPS is the DMR limit. HPA would make him be able to regulate it up for cold and down for hot, and remove any consistency issues related to the gas. A tightbore and TDC mod would work great.

SOAP could offer more insight if you want to PM him, his GBBRs are unbelievably accurate, 250 ft hits regularly. He could reveal some secrets if you're nice haha.



110+ plus...easy...low vapor point gas, easy to compensate.


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karmatheninja
post Mar 28 2013, 11:49 AM
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External air source would be the ideal way to go but you can get away with not doing so.
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Guges Mk3
post Mar 28 2013, 02:21 PM
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The draw back is the tether. Get it caught on something and yank it hard and wrong...your done until you get it fixed.

With a true GAS DMR, you can set mags as needed for your firing style:

He's behind thick brush? .43 with HFC122 Refrigerant.
Its getting dark? Pop in the mag with .25 tracers and activate the tracer unit.
Your mag is empty? Drop the mag and load another.

Your buddy rocking the same DMR spent all his ammo? Hand him a loaded magazine. Then make him fill one for you. a-wink.gif

Simple, realistic, and works if you set it up for the day correctly.

HPA has its place...but you can make a GBBR work and that is the point of the OP's question, right?

Now as to the definition of DMR. Some venues limit it to SA only, some venue don't allow "Adjustable" gas sources, some have no restrictions and call them snipers platforms and you have engagement rules. It will vary with where you play.


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sniperelite7
post Apr 1 2013, 01:36 AM
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I don't know what you mean about being tethered and yanking it in the wrong place. Rigs are stupidly simple and quite durable. The line and fittings are rated to withstand high psi, they are pretty much fire and forget. Urpeacekeeper on arniesairsoft had rigged his WOC m16a4 too hpa. The reloads where quick, so long as the fittings are self sealing, all you had to do was pop off the line, reload, and snap the line back on. Since this is going to be a dmr your not going to need to do a fast reload..and if your opponent is that close to you that you do need to reload that quick then you shouldn't be shooting them with a hot gun in the first place.

HPA is really the way to go, if not for consistency then for the sake of being able to tune your fps. But to each their own. Why not just make like AEG upgrading. Buy the gun and work on the barrel group, drop some .4s in and see how it performs. If is still not consistent enough then consider trying hpa.

Also, ir-hop that b*tch.

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mad scientist
post Apr 9 2013, 05:58 PM
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QUOTE (sniperx2s @ Mar 27 2013, 06:56 AM) *
worse... in YOUR experience? Great concept but fails unless you shovel tons of tuning time into it?

that says more about the you than the R-Hop. I hope you realize that the R-Hop and the flat hop operate on the exact same concept, except that the R-Hop is a massive improvement.


Good job captain obvious...clearly thats been MY experience. I don't know what that says about me other than I want to buy a product that works...not buy a product I need to mod further. R-hops are cut up rubber tubing...I can cut up rubber tube myself thanks. And I hope you realize all hop-ups work on the exact same concept (applying back spin). The only thing the r-hop has over the flat hop is increased range...and unless you shovel a :pain: ton of time into it...you get a huge spread increase along with that range. Maybe the r-hop is superior in ideal conditions...I didnt test it with a gun vice with a chrono string or whatever other horseshit HS5 wanted me to do when trouble shooting. In practice...when actually playing...the r-hop fails.
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MotorMouth93
post Apr 14 2013, 02:42 AM
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QUOTE (mad scientist @ Apr 9 2013, 04:58 PM) *
Good job captain obvious...clearly thats been MY experience. I don't know what that says about me other than I want to buy a product that works...not buy a product I need to mod further. R-hops are cut up rubber tubing...I can cut up rubber tube myself thanks. And I hope you realize all hop-ups work on the exact same concept (applying back spin). The only thing the r-hop has over the flat hop is increased range...and unless you shovel a pain.gif ton of time into it...you get a huge spread increase along with that range. Maybe the r-hop is superior in ideal conditions...I didnt test it with a gun vice with a chrono string or whatever other horseshit HS5 wanted me to do when trouble shooting. In practice...when actually playing...the r-hop fails.


I see loads of butt-hurt in that post. Maybe you feel bad about yourself because you are incapable of installing one properly?

Almost anybody can put together an AEG with expensive parts and have BB's come out the end when they pull the trigger. Not everyone, however, can put together an AEG and have it perform well. AEG's are not Legos, not everything is a perfect fit. If you want the best possible performance, you have to be patient and put in the time required to get it.

You, on the other hand, are still playing with Lego's. (which are awesome by the way)

This post has been edited by MotorMouth93: Apr 14 2013, 02:44 AM


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(OST)Ghost
post May 7 2013, 11:08 AM
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QUOTE (slickseal @ Mar 24 2013, 04:19 PM) *
I have been thinking about getting a GBBR for a while now, and I was wondering if it is possible to get 250ft+ range out one without a ton of upgrading.
I am aware that GBBR's are inherently inconsistent, wich affects accuracy and that it will probably be pretty expensive to do this.
I guess my real question is, is it realistic to try and compete with all the r-hopped AEGs out there?

I've been looking at the lm4, and it seems to have a pretty consistent gas system, but it seems to have fewer aftermarket upgrades (if any) than WA based gun.

Whats your opinion?


I run a DaytonaGun M16 as a DMR. I've got an extended 6.01mm TBB running into a long flash hider and obviously (being a DG) it's hooked up to HPA. I don't have any consistency issues and I can run whatever type of mag I want. So yeah, I'd say it's possible to build a GBB DMR.

Also, for those complaining about the HPA line being annoying, mine runs out of the PRS stock instead of the pistol grip. If you do it that way, you won't even notice the line and you can go prone for longer range shooting with zero issue.

This post has been edited by (OST)Ghost: May 7 2013, 11:10 AM


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jonsun81
post May 7 2013, 11:47 AM
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Hpa is the way to go for dmr simply because you need each shot to be on point and you can't achieve that if your fps is +-10-15 fps. Another way to go if you have the money is a polarstar : ). By the time you fix your gbbr to be the best it can be you could have been running a polarstar.


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Disco_Dante
post May 7 2013, 03:08 PM
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QUOTE (jonsun81 @ May 7 2013, 12:47 PM) *
Hpa is the way to go for dmr simply because you need each shot to be on point and you can't achieve that if your fps is +-10-15 fps. Another way to go if you have the money is a polarstar : ). By the time you fix your gbbr to be the best it can be you could have been running a polarstar.


Why run a polarstar when you can run a daytonagun? People buy GBBRs for the realism and recoil. Going to a polarstar from that would be a step backwards.
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jonsun81
post May 7 2013, 03:31 PM
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Ummm okay, yet you attach a hose to your mag and run a tank on your back? I just think its inconvenient to tap all your mags and have to hook up each reload. Recoil is great, but pointless in airsoft. I used an lm4 for 6 months and only play milsim. Loved it at first but soon realized that stealth was out the door with gbbr as well as reliable accuracy. No you cannot compete with finely tuned aegs and no chance against Polarstars.


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(OST)Ghost
post May 7 2013, 08:08 PM
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QUOTE (jonsun81 @ May 7 2013, 04:31 PM) *
Ummm okay, yet you attach a hose to your mag and run a tank on your back? I just think its inconvenient to tap all your mags and have to hook up each reload. Recoil is great, but pointless in airsoft. I used an lm4 for 6 months and only play milsim. Loved it at first but soon realized that stealth was out the door with gbbr as well as reliable accuracy. No you cannot compete with finely tuned aegs and no chance against Polarstars.


DaytonaGun is a little different. It runs on HPA, but the line is fed straight into the gun, like it is on a Polarstar, so you avoid the mag and tapping issues.

I own a DaytonaGun M16 DMR and love it, but for a serious DMR, I might still go with a Polarstar just for the tuning aspect it provides. That said, OP asked about a gas blowback, so I recommended a DaytonaGun earlier.

Just my input on this.

This post has been edited by (OST)Ghost: May 7 2013, 08:10 PM


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