Heckler & Koch, Inc. v. Johnson Yang
Heckler & Koch, Inc. et al v. Kenneth Chang
Heckler & Koch, Inc. v. Thomas Li
Heckler & Koch, Inc. et al v. Airsplat
Heckler & Koch, Inc. v. Dong Ying Manufacturing, Inc. et al
Heckler & Koch, Inc. et al v. Evike.com, Inc.
Heckler & Koch, Inc. v. Team S.D., Inc.
Heckler & Koch, Inc. v. Airsoft G.I.
Heckler & Koch, Inc. v. Airsoft Atlanta, Inc.
Heckler & Koch, Inc. v. BT Paintball Designs, Inc.
Heckler & Koch, Inc. v. Tippman Sports LLC et al
Heckler & Koch, Inc. v. Precision Airsoft, LLC
Heckler & Koch, Inc. v. Gamo USA, Inc. dba Aftermath Airsoft

Courtesy of TheSmokingMan from ASR




KingKrispy21

I am not suprised at all.. All these companys getting in a fuss about simple trades..

I can understand copying the actual firearm design but thats just retarded..

What I can't swallow is the potentially huge consequences of this.. HK is attempting to sue every company save Umarex (the only licensed HK airsoft gun distributor).
either that, or prohibiting the importation of all HK replicas to foreign companies (US included)


Im pretty mad :/


KingKrispy21

They'll find a way to get around it.

glad my G36 just shipped and will be here soon =)

Yea I was talking to one of the guys at airsoftatlanta about this last week. He told me that their boss sent a letter to hk to the tune of "EFF you hk". Worst comes to worst we'll just have to get our hks from hong kong like we do with our glocks.

Isn't this old news?

On a side note, how much extra would it cost to get HK licensing? Say, generic mp5 is $100 without licensed HK trades, how much extra would trades cost?

Dang, I always liked HK because they didn't do s*** like this. Honestly how can they sue people like AirsoftGi, all they do is sell the items.

HK is missing the boat, you don't license to one small company and push the cost onto the consumer you license to ALL company's and collect a little bit from every freaking sale while not putting your license holding partners in a position where they have an extra cost that hurts them competitively. Seriously stupid strategy H&K are using, unless this lawsuit thing is to settle the situation with a licensing agreement that brings them more revenue from all parties. if they allowed themselves to get locked into an exclusive contract with anyone when they held the legal high ground they are retards and I am suddenly a SIG and FN fan.

They should've licensed a company that made actual good products. Like Olympic Arms did.

Bye bye G36s and MP5s...

meh, I got my USP, so I'm not concerned.

Its Ebay too, my Star G36 keeps getting taken off because it has real HK trades.

They have been doing that for a while. It's old news there.

Agreed, that would be the smart thing to do - it would even make them more money.

I think I read something about H&K earlier...

OH found it
An open letter to the gun community from HK’s marketing department: In a world of compromises, some people put the bullets in the magazine backwards…But it doesn’t matter, because our gun is on the cover of the Rainbow Six video games. Look how cool that SEAL coming out of the water looks… If you buy a $2,000 SOCOM, you will be that cool of an operator too. And chicks will dig you.

At HK, we stuck a piston on an AR15, just like a bunch of other companies have done, dating back to about 1969. However ours is better, because we refuse to sell it to civilians. Because you suck, and we hate you.

Our XM8 is the greatest rifle ever developed. It may melt, and it doesn’t fit any accessories known to man, but that is your fault. If you were a real operator, you would love it. Once again, look at Rainbow Six, that G36 sure is cool isn’t it? Yeah, you know you want one.And by the way, check out our new HK45. We decided that humans don’t need to release the magazine with their thumbs. If you were a really manly teutonic operator, you would be able to reach the controls. Plus we’ve fired 100,000,000 rounds through one with zero malfunctions, and that was while it was buried in a lake of molten lava, on the moon. If you don’t believe us, it is because you aren’t a real operator.

By the way, our cheap, mass-produced, stamped sheet metal guns like the G3 and MP5 are the bestest things ever, and totally worth asinine scalpers prices, but note that cheap, mass-produced, stamped sheet metal guns from other countries are commie garbage. Not that it matters, because you’re civilians, so we won’t sell them to you anyway. Because you suck, and we hate you, but we know you’ll be back. We can beat you down like a trailer park wife, but you’ll come back, you always do.

Buy our stuff.

Sincerely

HK Marketing DepartmentHK. Because you suck. And we hate you.

Yes it's old news, but that was just for their stuff being on ebay. Now it's for every airsoft retailer that Hanz und Franz can get their hands on.

Yes it's stupid that they're taking this route. But it's HK, because we suck and they hate us, and we'll love them through it all.

Does this seriously mean we can't buy HK design airsoft guns anymore?

You literally made me lol. Congratulations. You will now be awarded 1 (one) cookie.

hk is notorious for this... hope everyone has read the "HK and we hate you" letter... google it.

Everyone posted here missed half of the story. Please look up Continental Enterprises on Google.

http://tabberone.com/Trademarks/HallOfSham...ses/HK/HK.shtml

http://tabberone.com/Trademarks/HallOfSham...terprises.shtml



This post has been edited by Level7g: Jun 28 2009, 02:51 AM

No, not at all actually..

there are several options if this lawsuit goes through- all HK guns will be sold with licensed trades, or we'll simply not be able to purchase them in the US. note that H&K is primarily suing the distributors, since most manufacturers are in China, Taiwan, or Japan. if HK does win the lawsuits, the result won't be that "massive", it'll just mean more stringent regulations with replicas

the reason HK is suing is because of trademark protection, so as to show that they "Care for their brand". any look-alike replica, firearm or not, is considered a knockoff, and a trademark infringement, even if there aren't trades on the gun. anything that replicates the design, function, or any other aspect falls into this category.

Look at what happened with Colt, they didn't pursue these infringements, and when they did finally try, it was too late for them to legally protect and enforce their trademarks, thus their brand was "diluted" (Court actually ruled against Colt) that's why you see armalites being sold with full trades, with no problem. HK doesn't want that to happen.

That's why G&G is getting sued (their MP5's are very, very realistic, replicating everything down to the 2-piece sling mount), and why most stateside retailers are renaming MP5's "MK5's" and G36's as "MK36's"



KingKrispy21

I have an h&k mp5sd6, hehehe....they can't sue me!!!

wow, H&K is a :censored2:

I would think they would be flattered if everyone wanted to simulate using with their guns.

I honestly don't blame them, they're protecting what's theirs

it won't hurt that much if it goes through. Like Glock, HK won't be able to stop production of replicas (you can still buy custom KSC Glocks with Trademarked slides on WGCshop for example). That, and the fact that HK's footing in this suit isn't that great

right now, its speculation, so let's leave it at that :/



KingKrispy21

So it's kinda like the situation on AK-47s, the Ruskies don't want other unlicensed countries to make them but they can't stop it.

Hey Guys,

This has been going on for a while now... and I even wrote to HK-USA regarding this issue (since I buy 2 or 3 real steel firearms every year, and have owned 4 or 5 HK's over the years). I basically told them that I was in the market for a rifle this year, and had my sights set on an SL8/9, but that since they were pursuing this line of action against airsoft (and me owning an airsoft course and store) I would NOT be buying one of their fancy $1800 rifles, and would be discouraging anyone I knew from doing the same.

I politely pointed out to him that others in the past who have pushed one brand with their name on it in airsoft (namely Cybergun), since their products were (to be polite) inferior, where better airsoft guns exist, if they put their name on an inferior product, they are claiming that the gun is theirs (by allowing their name on it) versus if they did NOT go after trademarking, then any gun (good or bad) would have their trade or even shape on it, so no one could hold them accountable (good or bad) for what an airsoft gun did...

Surprisingly, I got a reply from the guy who is the head of USA marketing. He understood exactly where I was coming from, he said that he was directing my letter up to where that decision was made, and that this was not in his control.

Let's face it. Some sue happy lawyers saw that they could make a buck by going up to the gun mfgrs and saying, "Mr. Mfgr... if you let us sue these guys, they'll settle out and we'll split the settlement with you..." and they are doing it.

Expect to see more of it...

I am glad that Umarex is at least using halfway decent mfgrs of airsoft to build stuff (KWA's new MP7 will be branded Umarex from what I understand) Maybe they can get that for their G36 as well...

Still, don't be afraid to let them know what you think of it... I was and am serious, I will no longer buy a real steel HK gun (much as I love them!)

Maybe I ought to get that guys address and send him my HK Firearm Specialists hat...?

Paisley Pirate

WHY DO THEY DO THAT! IHATE IT! seriouslly kwa glock series suck major nutz with out the glock trades like ksc, I really cant imagine how crappy guns will look or Really Cool expensive like the "liscensed KJW P226" I just bought for $160 vs the non liscensed version is 90, its just sad that once again someone is getting money greedy and feels they need to open a lawsuit, well I hope a few gun manufacters just let trades slide because I don't thinK AIRSOFT guns should have to be price jacked because REAL GUNS get angry I understand they are the creators of the real gun and its trades so they feel the need to have a piece of the action but its just not cool at all, you think maybe some of us can start a petition to send to gun manufacterors just asking them not to punish those who use their trades on airsoft guns, the more people we get to electronically sign the more support it shows supports the idea.

Let me know in replies or pms if this is soomthing you guys would like to do and I could get a petition waiver started.

I just hope that the real steel manufacters can open their eyes and see that using their trades does no harm and charging double the price for lisensing will kill airsoft sales and the few reliable stores that remain open

-Hans


PS not to mention they don't need more money as every gun manufacter is reaching record breaking sales in guns and ammo due to current U.S. delgation

This post has been edited by Hans17: Jun 29 2009, 02:38 AM

That's not going to happen...

A company have to be actively protecting their trade mark for several reasons.

1. Intellectual property. Why would you freely give away your design for other people's benefit. It's basic economics. No money, no innovation. It's not all about greed.
2. Liability Insurance. This is a big liability for H&K in US. For example, someone took a non H&K non license products and got himself hurt/kill or whatever stupid reasons. And I'll guarantee you some lawyers will find reasons to sue whoever have the deepest pocket.

If you are going to blame someone. Blame Continental Enterprises.

Exactly.

either way, I seriously doubt this will mean the end of HK replicas


KingKrispy21

I agree.

Replica manufacturers will continue to produce replicas of these guns because of its popularity and its equivalent income generating potential. This is a minor problem, I'm sure they will work something out.

In my opinion, the most that would come out of this will be an agreement between HK and the manufacturers/distributors. I'm sure HK has seen the money earning potential of the replica market. Apart from protecting the product and the interest of HK, it all goes down to business.

My thoughts.

Have some of you ever thought some real gun manufacturers just doesn't want to associated with airsoft/toy gun? Profit made by replica is peanuts comparing to real steel.

Glock is the prime example.

I'm sorry I sound bit negative but working in the manufacturing background I don't see this is going to change anytime soon. The Lawsuit will still continues.

This post has been edited by Level7g: Jun 30 2009, 01:00 PM

yes it will, but HK has a weak base in these lawsuits. they must prove that these replica manufacturers directly copied HK's patented gas operated recoil system, along with other patented parts and systems (which are non-existent in AEG's, not even closely copied in GBBR's). seeing that's impossible to prove, they are suing based on the fact that airsoft replicas closely resemble their patented "look", as they say they have a distinctive look to their weapons. this is a very weak basis-

"Hahn and I were discussing this earlier, and H&K isn't just suing about trademarks. A trademark case is open-and-shut in H&K's favor. Nobody by Umarex has the rights to use H&K trades in the U.S. H&K, however, is apparently suing based upon more than that. They are claiming that anything which LOOKS like an H&K is in violation of their trademark, as they own the distinctive appearance of their weapons. On the replica shape/form angle, they should clearly lose.

Here is why a good lawyer can win that case in minutes: The Xiuhcoatl FX-05. The home-grown Mexican assault rifle looks amazingly like a G-36 in many regards, and in some places the profile is identical. H&K planned on suing the Mexican manufacturer for trademark infringement. They met with the manufacturer and the Mexican government, who showed them that the FX-05 had an entirely different set of internals and a different operating mechanism, and that all of the parts were Mexican designed.

Ok, here's the good part: H&K agreed not to sue because the internal operating mechanism was completely different from the G-36, and thus there was no copyright or trademark infringement. Now, courts LOVE precedent. H&K will have a very, very hard time arguing that the internals of a real-steel firearms are different enough to preclude a lawsuit despite the external similarities, but that an airsoft replica is somehow close enough to merit trademark infringement. With the FX-05 case, H&K themselves said that the externals don't matter, it's what is inside that counts. Well, an airsoft gun is as different internally from real steal as you can possibly get. They've given away their own argument by their actions in Mexico; all it will take is a clever lawyer and it's done. Let's hope the airsoft retailers get such a lawyer."

-from http://www.acmeairsoft.com/showthread.php?p=80359


KingKrispy21

Haven't you guys wonder why you can only buy MK36's and MK5's in stead of MP5's and G36's on ASGI?