Okay, I bit the bullet and bought the ICS M16A3..

Turbo 3000 motor
STEEL bushings (magnet tested)
Split gearbox
blah blah..

Couple of quirks in the gun right off the bat..

The battery lid in the full stock is SO FAT, theres little room for the plugs..
It wont close without modification..

I redid all the wiring to accomodate a 12v Denso relay as I did with my MP5
HERE : http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/index.ph...p;hl=12v+relay#

Pretty much the same drill, except the unit fit without removing the relay cover just
under the stock mount.

The stock wiring was 16g throughout.. Silicon insulated in the stock,
& that hard wiring in the box.. (because silicon insulated would be too fat)

Oddly enough, the gun came with a plastic spring guide,
where my MP5 came with an ICS v2 bearing with screw.

The standard ICS (dull grey) motor pinion was replaced imediately
with a Guarder hardened steel one, The gears were replaced with
Systema Flat super torque up gears (highest torque flat type)
*8 teeth on the bevel*

The mechbox was polished on all surfaces where contact is made with other parts:
cutoff lever
selector plate
tappet plate..
And the outside was smoothed with 2000 grit wetsanding
Cylinder was also polished

The upper box fit very tightly in the metal body.. After smoothing, it slides in with
a nice precision tight feel..

The Delta ring was loose, but easily fixed by lightly stretching out the spring.

Zero barrel wobble...

Forward assist works very well... pressing it releases the gears so they can roll back
and let the piston rest in the full forward position & prevent undue spring wear.
I would describe it as a full logic tape deck opening... but you can hear the gears..

Gaurder polycarb piston was installed
Custom ported stock piston head (4 holes)
Stock Cylinder head will be used to keep box stress lower
ICS steel bushings seem to be good quality (will use for now)


So on to the chrono results
*0.2g AE BBs through an F-1 Shooting chrony & Hopup turned off*

Completely stock with a brand new ICS spring (never compressed)
the gun shoots pretty much 350 fps (+/- 5)

Likely this would drop by 15-20 fps to the 330 fps claimed range..
But brand spankin new, it shoots quite hard..

I didnt leave the spring in long enough to even begin to break it in..
*of note, this spring is about 1/2 inch longer than the PDI spring,
AND the ICS piston head is mounted to a 3/8 inch spacer/weight
This might explain why the weaker spring shoots harder..


Next was the PDI 170 spring..
This upped it to 375 (+/- 5)

*Note* This spring was pre-compressed to avoid "Brand-new-stiffness" strain
on the mechbox.. This was done by running a 5 inch bolt through it,
placing washers on either end, and leaving it compressed to 4 inches for
a few hours at time.. I also ran 135degree water over it 3-4 times to help it relax..
(I didnt want a $15 spring to mess up a new $65 gearset)

Then came the Prometheus 509mm tightbore
This upped it to 400 (+/1 5)

The barrel is NICE... satin silver finish, deeply crowned tip... and I can say now
first hand, that it boosts power by ~25 fps... Totally worth the price & I wish I had
bought one for my MP5 instead of a Systema..

I havent installed the Prometheus spring guide with ball bearing yet,
But it should boost power by a tiny bit more, as the stock guide has no bearing.

Time will tell if the spring will break in more... But the difference in stiffness can
be felt between new, and pre-compressed.. Hopefully it will just stay at 400.


There was an issue with the stock cylinder also...
Slight "seems" can be felt in the inner surface which might be affecting compression.
They are smooth, but makes the inner surface a tiny bit uneven...
Hand compression tests indicate its performing decently...

I might have to replace this to see if it makes a difference..


Mag brand mags arent the best fit on these... Alittle more wobbly than the stock mag..
Luckily I only bought one at $8 rather than a whole box of them..

The finish is a nice dark grey (powder coated perhaps) and all other components are
matt black : rear sight, dust cover, safety switch, bolt & mag release, charging handle...

I was told this was the latest shipment of these guns by Evike... but im not 100% sure
if thats true... I thought the guide was supposed to be metal, & the pinion hardened steel..

I know the Anniversary edition has all that... with the +$80 tag.

At any rate, the serial number was in the 600,000's so it seemed high enough.

All in all, a nice gun... so far.
A few fixes are required as mentioned above.. But thats why we love this hobby!

I don't know why people have such low regard for ICS hopups.. It seems decent..
Nice positive clicking adjustment wheel with almost 100 clicks of adjustment.
I guess Ill find out soon enough...

Also, the upper & lower split gearbox seems to mate well enough.
The rear pin is quite tight.. The front is held down by both the metal body front pin
(which houses the upper very snugly) and there is also a small spring loaded latch
on the lower that hooks onto the upper when closed..

This latch however was loose... Easily fixed by inserting a brass 1/8 sleeve to tighten
up the tolerances..

If it ever becomes an issue, a simple additional rear lock would be an easy fix...
Perhaps an imbedded bolt & nut closure accessible when its open during feild stripping.
Seems to be fine for now..

Ill have accuracy & rate of fire tests posted here soon..
Hopfully pics as well, if my camera doesnt act up.

This post has been edited by Noobie: Feb 16 2007, 11:58 PM

Nice to see the power back up on the newer ICS.

It was so sad to see the 285 on a 330 marketed AEG...well for the M4 Variant that is.

The spring seemed to have settled in at about 390 fps (-5 fps further) after some use.
*Even after the pre-compressing of the spring

So seeing the decrease in velocity, I decided it was time to Install
the Prometheus ball bearing spring guide I had bought..

Also performed my nozzle reaming mod to improve the air seal.
Illustrated here [link below] as done on my MP5 while back.
http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/index.ph...&hl=nozzle#

30 x 0.20g shots with (kinda) worn in spring yeilded:
Low : 404.0
High : 414.7
Average : 408.9
[Gain of about 18 fps]
from the Guide & seal mod.

A few 0.25g shots yeilded:
367,364,365,368
[Gain of about 16 fps]

Upon inspection, the piston is holding up very well as are the gears & pinion..
Im really quite pleased with this gun and the mods..

Its alittle bit over the 400 mark, but it should settle in more I think.
I definately will not be adding a bearing piston head.

After the spring is worn in completely, ill switch over to a 9.6 volt nimh to
up the rate of fire... Currently its quite modest at around 15 I estimate..
It sounds abit faster than my MP5 in slow mode using a 9.6v
as illustrated here [ROF resistor mod]
http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/index.ph...mp;hl=resistor#

Bench testing for accuracy @ 40, 60, 80, & 100 feet to come next.
Its really windy today

Ill try to borrow my boys camera to post some pics of the mods, wiring, etc.
Soon

This post has been edited by Noobie: Feb 19 2007, 01:45 AM

So is the ICS not really a good gun to get if you're just looking for Out-Of-The-Box power? It seems like you went through a lot of stuff to get this just right. I'm excited to see the range testings and stuff.

350 chrono'd (out of the box)... as I mentioned on Post # 1

But that would have surely fallen after breakin... To around 330 I suppose.

My well used upgraded MP5 shoots 350fps..
And I wanted to get this full sized rifle up to snuff..
Hence all the mods & effort..




Not to mention its tax return time!!
yeah baby...

This post has been edited by Noobie: Feb 19 2007, 12:20 PM

its funny sir, but our ICS here are 380-390 out of the box..

Ran my 04 ICS m4 on a prometheus ms110 (380 fps) spring for about a year, with stock plastic bushings. Mind you I havent shot it alot, only during skirms (3000 rnds roughly). It still shoots solid. Only other up I put on it is a CA silent piston head. The gun is solid even on the plastic bushings. Anyone than has to replace them obviously shoots more than 3k bb's in a 4 hr OP. newbies Outta the box though I was close to 280 fps with .20s.

This post has been edited by ::GwG::FloFillA: Feb 19 2007, 08:18 AM

In the philippines?

It seems only the Anniversary edition comes with an
upgraded spring that claims 380 fps, All others claim 330

The one I pulled out is definately nothing special.
The diameter of the coils is thin in comparison.

Its my feeling that theres always room for improvement,
especially as far as durability.

You could throw an M120 in a UTG and probably get it to
fire 400's, but it wont last.

So in short, out of the box doesnt mean a whole lot.
The post in reference to the ECHO stress testing,
indicated that the stock piston shreded itself after
some several thousand rounds.

I took particular care not to throw the spring in and lay
on the trigger right away by:

- Pre-compressing the spring
- Upgrading parts in sequence to allow breakin of components one at a time.

To me, performance means very little without durability & reliability.



Yes, the gun seems very solid.
The stock feels alittle hollow, but nothing some filler cant fix.

I compared it to the stock on my H-bar at work, and it looks like those
have a foam core. And they feel very solid, like you could use it as a crutch.
Actually that particular rifle has seen so much wear, it looks like it may have been.


The plastic bushings I think were no longer used after 2006 I guess.
Not sure what the changes in 2007 were.

Good to hear that yours is running strong still.

A few pics

THE GUN:



BODY : Closeup


HINGE : Added brass sleeves on hinge


BOLT : Stripped paint & polished Bolt


POLISHED : Upper Mechbox & Cylinder



RELAY SETUP : Deans Plugs & Gold plated 1/4' connectors all around

Is the receiver black, or grey like the other ICS?

Its grey... sort of a powder coated looking finish..

Strange, earlier today I chrono'd the gun about 15 times and came up with the following:

414.7
420.7
422.1
424.6
424.4
425.1
425.0
418.0
420.1
412.8

The only differences are that :
-It was noticably warmer today.
-Cleaned the barrel
-Gun has seen some use (wearing in of barrel perhaps)

Compared to previous testing:
Hi : 414.7 ==> 425.1
Low : 404.0 ==> 412.8
Avg : 408.9 ==> 420.7

Thats strange. I received my ICS M16a3 from Evike a couple of months ago. Its receiver is a black satin finish and has the hardened steel pinion and metal guide. None the less...good upgrade info. Thanks.

Yep, apparently I got a 2006 version.
Not a huge deal, because I had a spare guide from an FTK anyways..

Still, its annoying how these shops will lie out their ears.
The guy told me this one was of the latest shipment...

What is your serial number btw?

Not sure...but I will check it when I get home today and let you know.

I also ordered a Prometheus 509mm tightbore yesterday after reading your review.

What brand magazine are you using? I have a couple ICS hicaps...they have a little wobble to them (not bad) and seem to have problems feeding every once in a while. Found anything better?

This post has been edited by Snoopy: Mar 16 2007, 09:26 AM