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> Lithium Polymer (lipo) In Aeg?
SpyderSniper
post Jun 8 2007, 08:38 AM
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Has anyone started using LiPo batteries in their AEG.

Lithium Polymer (LiPo) batteries come in various size pack sizes.
Most come in either 2 cell 7.4V packs or 3 cell 11.1V packs.

Ive been using them for quite some time in model airplanes.

I hesitate to try it in a AEG, because 11.1V is going to be a bit much, and 7.4V isnt really enough.
If we can figure out how to make them work..they are so small and light weight, you could stick them anywhere.

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bat21win
post Jun 8 2007, 10:27 AM
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I've heard of people using the 7.4v in their guns and getting the same results as an 8.4, but don't quote me on that.


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post Jun 8 2007, 10:39 AM
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11v lipos are for HIGHLY upgraded guns only
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CaptianInsano21
post Jun 8 2007, 01:38 PM
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QUOTE (bat21win @ Jun 8 2007, 11:27 AM) *
I've heard of people using the 7.4v in their guns and getting the same results as an 8.4, but don't quote me on that.


I have heard the same thing. I don't know much about batteries, but I think that they have a greater output than 8.4V and perhaps 9.6V. as bat21win said, don't quote me on that.


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Paisley Pirate
post Jun 8 2007, 10:40 PM
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I was looking at them in the hobby store the other day, thinking of how badly I could cook the motor in my Cyma MP5SD5, and would the battery life of one charge of what I could fit in the gun outlive the aforementioned motor????

Volts is Volts people, 7 v is 7v, 11v is 11v, so it will affect your rate of fire... 11 v is a little much for most guns, but still, it's a consideration...

Remember, you must use a special charger with these batteries, or else you end up with expensive model boat anchors.


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Aimfor1337
post Jun 8 2007, 11:03 PM
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yea.. if you used a lipo, youd better have reinforced everything, gb, metal piston head, metal piston... and use a strong spring, at least an m130, because your ROF would be around 35 rps if you didnt, and make sure to get Phoenix gears, either high power or high rof, almost the best gears you can get- you can get them at ASGI an then re wire your gun with like 14 guage wiring, and get a systema magnum. this set up can run you just around 680 dollars. this is if you were to use an 11v or 12v lipo. then your set.


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NY_Eric
post Jun 8 2007, 11:08 PM
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I wouldn't recommend a steel piston because you will just destroy your gears at that rate of fire.

Also if you use a magnum with it, you'll break everything in your gearbox at the insane rate of fire you will get with the 11.1v lipo (around 35+ RPS).


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Aimfor1337
post Jun 8 2007, 11:19 PM
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have you seen the gears that I reccomended? with the REINFORCED gearbox? for 120 dollars, those gears had better not strip too soon.


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NY_Eric
post Jun 8 2007, 11:51 PM
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QUOTE (Aimfor1337 @ Jun 9 2007, 12:19 AM) *
have you seen the gears that I reccomended? with the REINFORCED gearbox? for 120 dollars, those gears had better not strip too soon.


At upwards of 30 RPS, they will.


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whiskey29
post Jun 9 2007, 08:26 PM
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Lots of guys here use LIpo 11.1 but they recomend to burst fire only. ANd some guys with heavy spring only do single shoot.
Whats the FPS if you can break a bottle ??

I my self have tried 7.4, my battery rated 15c Max, 1500mAh and it does shoot faster than 8.4 NiMh Mini.
My AEG is JG standard, except motor is EG-1000 and the spring is M120 which bring the FPS to 430.
I shoot and play just like normal.

Good shimming and lubricant (which most CHina brand doesn't have) and I think it will last quite a while.

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Guest_Sweeper_*
post Jun 9 2007, 08:52 PM
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QUOTE (NY_Eric @ Jun 9 2007, 06:51 AM) *
At upwards of 30 RPS, they will.


30 RPS is like passing 10000 RPM on a car engine...
At that rate things tend to break pretty quick...
And you should also remember that the weakest link is what gives out first, and usually that is the softest material of them all.
Unless your piston is hard enough you will strip a piston, personally stripping a piston appeals more to me than stripping gears as they are easier to change and cheaper, still you want SOME service life from it.

Lipo batteries also wreak havoc on trigger contacts and a MOSFET system is going to be a requirement if you bolt in an 11 Volt lipo battery.
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Guest_AirMiles_*
post Jun 9 2007, 09:16 PM
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Volts is not volts. Using the hose analogy, the LiPos have a much thicker tubing and much more water gushing out.
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hkmp5roxs
post Jun 9 2007, 09:51 PM
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I've heard that a 7.4v lipo can get the same results as a 9.6v nicd or nihm.
ROF aside, lipos also last longer so that's a plus there.
ROF back, your gun wont last as long.
So basically we're at the age old question of do I upgrade my gun? a-salute.gif


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wdahm519
post Jun 9 2007, 11:20 PM
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QUOTE (hkmp5roxs @ Jun 9 2007, 10:51 PM) *
I've heard that a 7.4v lipo can get the same results as a 9.6v nicd or nihm.
ROF aside, lipos also last longer so that's a plus there.
ROF back, your gun wont last as long.
So basically we're at the age old question of do I upgrade my gun? a-salute.gif


If you used a 7.4V and got the same results as a higher voltage battery, that means the drain is higher. For instance, a 9.6V with a 30amp drain will be worse than a 9.6V with a 40amp drain.

So these lipo batteries must have a high drain is what is comes down to.
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fishyfoo69
post Jun 9 2007, 11:55 PM
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Hmmm newbies getting advice from newbies...... Its just a vicious downward spiral of advice!!! a-censored.gif

Vicious I tell you!!! I don't know how many wrong facts I read in that one topic but its amazing!

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toto
post Jun 10 2007, 09:52 AM
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QUOTE (fishyfoo69 @ Jun 9 2007, 11:55 PM) *
Hmmm newbies getting advice from newbies...... Its just a vicious downward spiral of advice!!! a-censored.gif

Vicious I tell you!!! I don't know how many wrong facts I read in that one topic but its amazing!


Give me a break. Either add information, or provide specific corrected information, but don't just pop in to say how stupid you think people are. Not helpful.

There is a lack of good info on li-poly use outside of RC airplanes etc. I have used them regularly for my planes, but have not seen credible info on how to maximize their use in airsoft. They do require special charges and they can be damaged by discharging to too low of a current per cell. From reading here it appears that people are using them as regular batteries. This seems like a bit of a cr*p-shoot. What is needed that I can't seem to find is a manual voltage controller with a low voltage cut-off. In RC we use ESC's which allow us to use transmitter channel to regulate voltage output and the ESC also monitors voltage and cuts-off the power when the cells reach a certain voltage (usually around 3V per cell). Without such a device you always risk damaging the cells - and they are expensive.

I'm very interested in using one in my gun, but would like to hear from someone who really understands li-poly use and has experience using them in airsoft.
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post Jun 10 2007, 01:44 PM
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QUOTE (Aimfor1337 @ Jun 9 2007, 12:03 AM) *
yea.. if you used a lipo, youd better have reinforced everything, gb, metal piston head, metal piston... and use a strong spring, at least an m130, because your ROF would be around 35 rps if you didnt, and make sure to get Phoenix gears, either high power or high rof, almost the best gears you can get- you can get them at ASGI an then re wire your gun with like 14 guage wiring, and get a systema magnum. this set up can run you just around 680 dollars. this is if you were to use an 11v or 12v lipo. then your set.


I would recommend NOT getting Phoenix gears. From what I've heard, they're basically pot metal. Prometheus is the way to go.


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post Jun 10 2007, 03:35 PM
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QUOTE (toto @ Jun 10 2007, 09:52 AM) *
Give me a break. Either add information, or provide specific corrected information, but don't just pop in to say how stupid you think people are. Not helpful.

There is a lack of good info on li-poly use outside of RC airplanes etc. I have used them regularly for my planes, but have not seen credible info on how to maximize their use in airsoft. They do require special charges and they can be damaged by discharging to too low of a current per cell. From reading here it appears that people are using them as regular batteries. This seems like a bit of a cr*p-shoot. What is needed that I can't seem to find is a manual voltage controller with a low voltage cut-off. In RC we use ESC's which allow us to use transmitter channel to regulate voltage output and the ESC also monitors voltage and cuts-off the power when the cells reach a certain voltage (usually around 3V per cell). Without such a device you always risk damaging the cells - and they are expensive.

I'm very interested in using one in my gun, but would like to hear from someone who really understands li-poly use and has experience using them in airsoft.


I used LiPo extensively last year when I was flying radio control helicopters. While I love LiPos, I'm scared of them too.....they're so darn powerful! a 7.4v LiPo wouldn't provide a fast enough ROF in my opinion, and 11.1v would be WAY too much for anything less than a HEAVILY upgrade gun.......but if you have every possible reinforcing upgrade and a Mosfet instead of using the standard trigger, I say hell yeah.

Airmiles started to talk about the "water pipe" analogy while talking about batteries, but it's true, volts are volts. Miliamphere-hour rating, and even the C Rating (sustained amp output) does not affect the speed that the motor is driven by the battery, especially when the load is consistent. The C rating does a little, but AEG motors aren't built to handle or use the hundreds of amps that a good LiPo can deliver. Motor speed is governed mostly by battery voltage. Because of that, I really don't think that a 7.4v LiPo would be usable in an AEG.

This post has been edited by H0ndaJunkie: Jun 10 2007, 03:36 PM


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Adrian
post Jun 10 2007, 06:47 PM
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QUOTE (H0ndaJunkie @ Jun 11 2007, 08:35 AM) *
I used LiPo extensively last year when I was flying radio control helicopters. While I love LiPos, I'm scared of them too.....they're so darn powerful! a 7.4v LiPo wouldn't provide a fast enough ROF in my opinion, and 11.1v would be WAY too much for anything less than a HEAVILY upgrade gun.......but if you have every possible reinforcing upgrade and a Mosfet instead of using the standard trigger, I say hell yeah.

Airmiles started to talk about the "water pipe" analogy while talking about batteries, but it's true, volts are volts. Miliamphere-hour rating, and even the C Rating (sustained amp output) does not affect the speed that the motor is driven by the battery, especially when the load is consistent. The C rating does a little, but AEG motors aren't built to handle or use the hundreds of amps that a good LiPo can deliver. Motor speed is governed mostly by battery voltage. Because of that, I really don't think that a 7.4v LiPo would be usable in an AEG.



Ok here we go...the truth...7.4v lipos CAN pull M130 upgraded mechs easily a long as you use on with a cpacity of over 2300mAh and a 20C discharge rate....

Also a 11.1v lipo 2000mAh won't make your gun do 35bbps and then catch fire and explode...however it will make your gun do about 25bbps on a stock spring... you can use lipos in your AEG's without trouble.

As has been said pheniox gears SUCK get either prometheus or systema if your upgrading
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post Jun 10 2007, 10:36 PM
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QUOTE (Adrian @ Jun 10 2007, 06:47 PM) *
Ok here we go...the truth...7.4v lipos CAN pull M130 upgraded mechs easily a long as you use on with a cpacity of over 2300mAh and a 20C discharge rate....

Also a 11.1v lipo 2000mAh won't make your gun do 35bbps and then catch fire and explode...however it will make your gun do about 25bbps on a stock spring... you can use lipos in your AEG's without trouble.

As has been said pheniox gears SUCK get either prometheus or systema if your upgrading


Once again, the Milliamphere-hour rating (mAh) has nothing to do with what spring a LiPo can pull. You're right that the C Rating does..........however, due to the LiPo technology, even a cheap 7.4v LiPo should have enough of an amperage output to pull any spring you want to put in it, unlike NiMh batteries.

I honestly don't think that telling people that an 11.1v LiPo is safe to use in a stock AEG is very good or responsible advice to give, sorry. It might make your gun do 25bbs on a stock spring for a few hundred bbs, before something breaks though. a-thumbsup.gif


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post Jun 10 2007, 10:51 PM
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Yup sorry your right using an 11.1v lipo in your guns will make it do 25bbps for about 1-2k rnd the first thing to break will be the piston...that was just me assuming that people would know about other mods to increase the life of their guns...sorry a-embarassed.gif

bahh I must argue the point a-grin.gif .... the C in the C rating stands for capacity ie a lipo with a 20C ie it will discharge at 20* the capacity of the cells...so that means the capacity (mAh) of the battery has alot to do with it...


Now I know the aeg's don't draw the amount of current that lipo battery's can supply, but battery's with a higher discharge will be able to supply the current drawn by the motor and have a higher cell voltage than a lower discharge batt...(for those that don't know when current is drawn from a battery it voltage drops)..so yes you are correct in saying that it depends on the voltage of the battery...but then in turn the voltage depends on the C rating and that in turn on the mAh a-sleep.gif


Alot of the people I play with use lipos...me personaly I prefer to use 12v+ MiNh's
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post Jun 10 2007, 10:52 PM
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Theres a guy I play with running 11.7 magnum motor and 2 teeth shaved off the piston with an M120. Works just fine. Worst part is just carrying enough BB's to keep the thing fed.
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Adrian
post Jun 10 2007, 11:02 PM
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QUOTE (762delivered @ Jun 11 2007, 03:52 PM) *
Theres a guy I play with running 11.7 magnum motor and 2 teeth shaved off the piston with an M120. Works just fine. Worst part is just carrying enough BB's to keep the thing fed.



Yeah atm I'm running a sp100 spring, systema turbo motor, prometheus std ratio gears(taken 2 teeth off the sector to help with engagment), G&P piston(drilled lots of holes in it, shims between the piston and piston head, taken the 2 teeth after the large catch tooth off and shaved the 3rd down to 1/2...btw those were the mods I was assuming people would know/find out about) and running it on a 12V 3600 sanyo nimh cells..that gets me 33-35bbps and that pistons lasted 30k so far and has no visiable wear

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H0ndaJunkie
post Jun 10 2007, 11:15 PM
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QUOTE (Adrian @ Jun 10 2007, 10:51 PM) *
bahh I must argue the point a-grin.gif .... the C in the C rating stands for capacity ie a lipo with a 20C ie it will discharge at 20* the capacity of the cells...so that means the capacity (mAh) of the battery has alot to do with it...


You're right, sorry. :-)

QUOTE
C Rating
LiPo cells are also commonly given a C or current rating. This is the maximum average recommended discharge current for the cell. For example, the Thunder Power 1900mAh packs have a 6C rating. To determine the maximum recommended discharge rate multiply the capacity times the C rating. 1900mAh x 6C = 11,400. So the maximum recommended discharge rate would be 11,400mA or 11.4 amps. If your application has a higher amp draw, remember that LiPo cells can be wired in parallel, and with 2 cells in parallel each cell sees half the total current. With 3 cells in parallel, each cell see one third the current.


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