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> Major9's End-all "which-gun-questions" thread, A work in progress
major9
post Apr 25 2011, 06:23 PM
Post #1


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Alright, It has come to my attention how many brand vs. brand threads on these boards. If you are trying to decide between 2 different types of gun, just pick whichever looks best to you. Anyways, this should help you at-least somewhat. I hope this thread stays near the top, so the which gun questions sub-side a bit. Also, I didn't list a whole lot of fps and rps stats. This is because that information is very readily available at most retailers like Airsplat or ASGI.
Here is how I will lay this thread out:
Brand name, slight intro.
Internals:
- Pros,
- Cons,
- Misc.
Externals:
- Thoughts
- Things to watch out for
Other Info to consider.
My rating for the gun.
*Layout may change as I go*
I truly hope this will help the player looking for what model gun to get.

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I’ll start with my personal favorite: JG
Echo 1 rebrands JG. If you bought a Echo1, you bought a JG with a warranty.
This brand is also known as Jing Gong, and is based out of China. It is on the cheap side, and usually is between $100 and $200. Jing Gong’s come in 2 flavors, basic and enhanced. Since I don’t have as much time as I would like, I will only cover the enhanced (for now….I will come back and edit it later).

Internals:
Pros:
- JG’s motors are fantastic. Their Red motor (red endbell), easily rivals the power of a magnum. JG also produces 2 types of Blue motors. A ferrite magnet, and Neo-magnet. Generally, the Ferrite is seen in stock JG’s, but I have came across the Neo’s before. The ferrite has pretty standard power, but the Neo-magnet can pull an MS210 spring on standard (18:1) gears.
- JG’s gears are also quite strong. I run them in most of my upgraded AEG’s. Shim them well, and they won’t let you down. I have taken several pairs to 500 fps @ 25 rps and back, and I have only seen one break, and that was at 55 rps.
- While we are on this subject, I would like to add that most JG’s come shimmed quite poorly. It
would be quite advantageous to open your gearbox up and shim them.
- JG’s come with different pistons:
- Cream piston - Metal release tooth: The most common piston out there. I have ran them fine at around 30 rps (@ 400 fps). They will last fine for stock performance.
- JG piston heads are FANTASTIC. I would rate it the best piston head made (along with Prometheus POM, and the angel high speed). I have taken this piston head to the dark side of the moon and back, and it just keeps kicking.

Cons:
- JG air-nozzles are sub-par. I would highly suggest replacing it with a Guarder or SHS (after-market air nozzles come with an O-ring).
- JG’s come with different pistons:
- Red piston - Full metal rack: This is a very poor piston. The rack is not supported at all, and it won’t last long.
- JG have sub-par barrels and hop-up assemblies as well. Switching to a tight bore, and an upgraded bucking will greatly increase your range and accuracy.

Misc: (these aren’t pro’s or cons)
- JG bushings are average. They are metal (in the enhanced version) but have an oil channel. I wouldn’t go too far with them, but for stock performance, they hold up just fine.
- JG’s cylinders are brass. Pretty standard, and should come ported according to your barrel length.
- JG Cylinder heads are decent. They come with one o-ring (from what I’ve seen), and get a decent air seal with some silicone oil.
- JG’s Gearbox shells are just fine. With some sorbo pad, they will take almost anything you can throw at it. Usually JG’s come in 7mm, but I have seen 6mm, and 8mm as well.

Externals:
Having handled more JG’s to count, I will say this; They aren’t bad, but they definitely are not good. Non-Armalites should hold up fine (keep in mind I haven’t handled every single model). They problems that I have had with JG’s armalites, is the plastic receiver. They are very poor, and I have seen the upper reciever split apart during disassembly.
The RIS on the Armalites really aren’t that bad. They hold accessories just fine, but are slightly heavy. This is because they are made of pot metal.
Stocks are nothing to write home about. They do there job, however, on the JG Ak’s, be gentle to the stock. I have seen them snap in half down the middle after some one took a harsh fall.
JG’s come with gigantic orange tips. I almost always replace mine, but keep the orange one for when I transport the gun.

My final thoughts on JG’s:
For a starter, or someone looking to upgrade or replace the externals, JG is a great choice. Their internals hold their own against most other high-end AEG’s.
However, when you buy JG, you play the ACM lottery. I have seen many Jgs that come with horrible shim jobs, poorly fit receivers, backwards cylinders, etc. I have been lucky lately, and haven’t gotten any lemons. But it does happen, as do all Airsoft gun manufactures.

My Rating:
Internals: 8.5/10
Externals: 5/10
Entire Product: 6.5/10

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Cyma:
Cyma is known mostly for their AK’s, but they also produce M14’s, MP5’s, and just recently came out with an M4 CQB styled weapon (licensed by Cybergun). Cyma’s weapons range from $100 to $200 in price. They are a TM clone, and take upgrade parts very well. Cyma’s come with different externals and internals. They are labeled accordingly (CM.028 is the cheapest, and worst quality. This is not saying that its bad, just that it is poorer quality than, say a CM.048).

Internals:
Pros:
- Cyma’s come with nice metal gearboxes, and 7mm bushings. I have had absolutely no problem’s with these, and they have proven to be fairly durable.
- Cyma’s gears are very nice. Similar quality to JG’s. They will run fine up to around 500 fps @ 30 rps. They are standard ratio (18:1), and will last for a very long time in a stock gun (assuming they are shimmed half decent).
- Some of the higher end Cyma models come with High Torque motors. They aren’t quite up to par with a JG red or ACM Torque motor, but they are a step up from the standard motors found in clone guns.
- Cyma’s come with the same cream colored piston mentioned earlier. I haven’t had problems with them running in a stock gun. Just correct the angle of engagement (with the sector gear), and you will be fine.
- I have seen Cyma’s come with cream colored piston heads like JG, but you’re mileage may vary. At any rate, they should last a good while.

Cons:
- As with most clone guns, the compression parts are sub-par. The brass cylinder is decent, and usually comes ported to match your barrel length. The Cylinder head appears to be the same material as the piston head, and has 1 o-ring. The air nozzle is also some kind of plastic, and should be replaced by an aftermarket one with an o-ring.
- Again, as with most clones, the barrel and hop-up are sub-par. The actual hop-up chamber is fine, however replacing the bucking would yield the greatest accuracy/range improvement.

Misc:
- The lower model Cyma’s come with a pretty standard ferrite motor. They will get close to 20 rps on an 11.1v, and they can’t pull much more than an m120.
- I mentioned the bushings with the gearbox shell, but I should mention them again here. If you will run the gun stock, they will hold up just fine. If you plan to upgrade the FPS or ROF, then it would be wise to drop in some Modify solid bushings.

Externals:
- I actually really like Cyma’s externals. Their lower level AK’s have a fair amount of plastic, however once you get higher up (CM. 035 or so), you start getting real wood, and metal receivers. I have not personally handled their M14’s, but don’t expect anything spectacular. The metal and wood AK’s are tanks. I can’t even tell you how many times me or someone on my team has taken a pretty harsh fall (with the gun), and it just keeps working. I guess it lives up to it’s real steel expectations.
- You are going to want to watch out for the full stock Ak’s. The stocks are help on only by two tabs and a screw or two. Like I said for JG, I have seen AK stocks split right down the middle because some-one landed on it. Just be a bit gentle with the stock, or just buy a folding stock and not worry about it.

Some other things to consider:
As with most clones, Cyma’s have no warranty. I have seen some break very quickly, but most Cyma’s I have seen last a decent amount of time. Also, clones are known to shoot kind of hot. If your field limits are 400 fps, you may want to buy a new spring with the gun. Cyma’s AK’s also come with a 600rnd magazine. It will last a long time, but it rattles a lot. It would be very smart to purchase some (MAG) midcaps.

My rating for Cyma:
Internals: 6.5/10
Externals: 7/10 (this varies by what model you have).
Entire Gun: 7/10

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TSD / SRC Gen. 3:
TSD = SRC for those wondering. These guns were founded out of Taiwan, so are a bit of a step up from China QC. They are cloned from Tokyo Marui, but have some slightly different specs. SRC produce G36, AK, M4, and 416 variants, along with some other rarer guns (MP40 and XR8). These guns come with a battery and charger.

Internals:
Pros:
- SRC’s come with very nice 8mm metal gearbox’s. They are very sturdy, and I have yet to see one break.
- On this note, I would also like to say that SRC uses different piston-to-sector gear ratio. I bought a v3 box for a high speed project. Bad idea. It works fine in an SRC however.
- SRC has decent gears. Pretty much on par with JG. I have never had a problem with them.
- SRC’s motors are very nice. They are fairly slow however. They have Neo-magnets, and are very high torque. They could pull atleast an SP150 on standard ratio gears.
- Their piston can take a beating. It is a green-ish color, with the release tooth being metal. I’ll say this for all AEG’s….just correct the angle of engagement, and you’re piston will last for a very long time.
- Compression parts in the SRC are definitely a step above the china made clones. Their cylinder heads have double o-rings, and they have decent ported metal piston heads.
- Their air nozzle is aluminum, and feeds quite well.
Cons:
My major gripe about SRC is the compatibility thing. If your sector gear and or piston break…they are going to have to be replaced by SRC. I have gotten an Element clear piston to run in it before, but nothing else. This limits upgrade potential a bit, so I generally stay away from SRC gearboxes.

Misc:
- Like I said, the bushings are 8mm, however they have an oil channel, which is generally bad in higher strain set-ups.
- SRC’s motor has a lot of torque, however it is slightly slow. On the included battery, it gets <10 rps from my experience. Your mileage may vary however.
- The hop-up and barrel assembly really aren’t to bad. In fact, they come with a metal hop-up, and a decent inner barrel (better than china clones at least). As with most AEG’s, one of the most beneficial things to do would be to get a better bucking. This would greatly increase range and accuracy.
Externals:
- I really like my G36C’s externals. They feel much better that a JG. The hand guard is nice polymer of some sort.
- The only problems I have came across with is the stock on the SR47 being slightly weak (it IS real wood though). All of SRC’s other AK’s have folding stocks, which are very nice.
- I have had troubles with the front hand-guard pin falling on the G36C, but that is to be expected.

All in all, SRC’s externals are fantastic, and their internals are not bad at all. I would feel safe just dropping in an SP150, and running it on an 11.1v lipo for a good while. They come with a battery, so you are set to go once you get it, however I recommend getting a better battery somewhere along the line.
Bottom Line: SRC / TSD is a fantastic brand, which offer a lot of bang for your buck.

Internals: 8/10
Externals: 7.5/10
Entire Product: 8/10

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Dboys:
Dboys is produced in China, but I have found them to have decent quality control. Their Armalites are cloned from Tokyo Marui, however their AK’s are cloned from VFC. Both AK’s, and Armalites use the same quality internals. Dboys produce several different AK’s, along with Armalites, Scars, and the PDW.

Internals:
Pros:
- Dboys has a very solid gearbox. Pretty much standard, and it is made from zinc alloy (it is cast like TM’s). The gearbox has 7mm bushings (on their AK versions at least).
- Dboys has XYT gears. They are just as strong as JG. Shim them well, and they wont let you down.
- Dboys use the JG/TM styled cream piston. Like I have said before, correct the AOE, and you are set for a very long time while running a stock set-up.

Cons:
- The motor that Dboys use are pretty poor. They get about 12 rps with the included 9.6v. They use ferrite magnets, and can’t pull much more than an M120.
- Dboys use oil channel bushings. They work fine in a stock set-up, but long term reliability and upgraded set-ups may come into concern.
- Since Dboys is a clone company based out of China, they have pretty standard and sub-par compression parts. This include a plastic Cylinder head with 1 o-ring, a plastic air nozzle, and a brass cylinder (ported according to your barrel length.
- Hop-up and barrel assembly are pretty bad as-well. Dboys AK’s come with plastic hop-ups, and brass barrels. It would be a noticeable accuracy increase with a new bucking.
- Dboys are shimmed very tightly, and they use very large shims. A better shim job is recommended.

Misc:
- Dboys use a blue colored (bearing) piston head. I haven’t encountered problems with it, however I haven’t tested it at higher power levels.
- The spring guide is metal, and if my memory serves, it has bearings (could be washers instead).
- The spring that Dboys runs really strains the motor. By dropping in an m100, I encountered a 5 rps increase, and trigger response noticeably increased.

Externals:
- I for one am a HUGE fan of Dboys externals. There AK’s at least. Dboy’s Armalites leave a bit to be desired. That being said, their AK’s are generally full, or partially steel. They are incredibly durable, and I have yet to see something break on them. Of course, there is always a problem with the full stocks splitting, but I have yet to see that happen on a Dboys.
- While we are on the topic of externals, I would like to say that Dboys AK’s have the easiest takedown I have ever seen (aside from a P90 of course). Dboys use the VFC takedown style, and it is SO much faster than a TM (or a clone). If I were shopping for an AK, I would definitely buy a Dboys.

Dboys also include a 9.6v 1200mAh with most of their AK series. This battery isn’t fantastic, but it’s a step up from the standard 8.4v that come with JG’s.
Also, Dboys mags are very bad. It surprised me that they included a very poor quality plastic mag with a full steel gun.

Internals: 7/10
Externals: 8.5/10
Entire Product: 8/10

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KWA:
Their has been quite a controversy over KWA lately. You either like it or you don’t. I will try to stay as un-biased as I possibly can. KWA is manufactured in Taiwan, and has very nice QC. KWA comes with a 45 day warranty, and they have some of the BEST customer service in the Airsoft world. They do not come with a battery, but come with a very high quality 300rnd high capacity magazine. Their guns range from $250 to $400. They only produce Armalites and G36C’s at this time, however they plan on releasing an AK variant sometime soon.

Internals:
Pros:
- They have one of the strongest V2 gearboxes I have seem. Their V3 is also quite strong. They use 9mm Bushings…but more on that later.
- KWA uses a fiber reinforced ballistic polymer piston. It is very strong, and has a metal release tooth.
- The KWA gears are thicker than Systemas (doesn’t say much…but still).
- KWA gets PERFECT compression. More on this as well (later).
- KWA uses a 2gx bucking. It gets very good groupings and range.
- The stock barrel is 6.05mm, and is made in Japan (except for the M4 and M4 CQB which are made in Taiwan).
- KWA uses very beefy 16 and 14 awg wiring. Nicest stock wiring that I have seen.

Cons:
- While KWA does use 9mm bearings, they have had problems with them blowing out before. Which brings me to my next point. The only 9mm bearings replacements are either Element, or found at the KWA Pro-shop
- KWA’s gears are supposedly cut to such tight tolerances that they don‘t need shims. It sounds good in theory, however, after stripping 2 sets of gears in an unopened KWA in under 10,000 rounds I have my reservations. I don’t think I need to say more…
- KWA uses a metal un-ported piston head. While they say that it is canceled off because of the POM cylinder head, this also means that the piston assembly weighs much more. Also, no ports means that KWA’s are FAR less forgiving in Jams.
- KWA gets perfect compression, however, if you ever switch any of the parts out, it wont. They are designed to work together, and aftermarket parts just don’t do the job as well.
- KWA uses a proprietary air nozzle to compensate for the 2 piece hop-up. Refer to the above con for why this is bad.
- KWA’s piston is quite strong, however it is about .65mm larger than a standard piston. Just a heads up for those of you wishing drop in an aftermarket piston. It will work, but there will be a fairly large amount of play.

Misc:
- KWA’s motor isn’t anything special, but it is slightly better than a stock Cyma or Dboys. It gets about 20 rps on a good 9.6v, and has a decent amount of torque.

Externals:
KWA’s Armalites series is what I have experience with, so I’ll speak about that:
- The metal body is decent. Worse than G&P, but it does the job. It has KWA trades, and is marked with a 6.00mm bb sign. The trades don’t necessarily look bad, just not as good as other brands like G&P or VFC.
- The RIS on KWA’s are fairly nice. I believe that they are Aluminum and not pot metal, but they still have a nice heft to them.
- One thing I had a problem with, is that the top rail on the upper receiver was wobbly, a fix to that was later posted on their forum. I wan't aware of that till now, so scopes sat crooked, and it threw of my aim a bit.

KWA has disappointed me a bit by flying by Marui’s specs. I sold mine for that very reason. However, KWA makes a FANTASTIC starter gun. Add that to the fact that their customer service is unmatched, and easily the best in the business, KWA is actually a decent brand.
Final thing I’ll say about KWA: Lipo ready is a marketing term. Even the worst JG is lipo ready. Please don’t buy a KWA just because it is lipo ready. You could get a JG for so much less, and then use the money you saved to upgrade a bit, or bring it to a tech to upgrade it.

Internals: 8/10 (this was very generous on my part. I personally give them a 5/10 for upgradeability, but it’s stock performance that we are talking about).
Externals: 8/10
Entire Product: 8/10

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G&P:
G&P is another one of my favorite brands. I will explain why later. G&P produces mostly Armalites, but have a few other styles out such as the M14. G&P’s usually shoot between 350 - 400 fps. Their AEG’s range from $200 - $500 +. They are cloned after Tokyo Marui’s, and produced in Taiwan.

Internals:
Pros:
- G&P’s come with a fast motor. The fastest I have seen in a stock AEG. It is their M120 series. However, this motor lacks torque because of its weak ferrite magnets. This means you won’t be able to push the gun past 400 fps without swapping the motor. Most G&P’s come close to 30 rps with a decent 9.6v. Be weary of the motors burning out on a 11.1v however.
- G&P’s have a decent piston. It usually has 3 metal teeth (on the release end). Some of G&P’s stubby guns come with a pre-short-stroked piston and sector gear. The benefits are 2 fold. One…less load on the motor, which means a slightly higher rps. And two…pre-engagement is much less of a problem.
- Their piston head is hit or miss. I have seen some work at 500 fps @ 40 rps without a problem, and I have seen others break on an M120.
- G&P’s get very nice range and accuracy. They have a decent brass barrel, and a nice bucking as well.
- G&P’s have strong gearbox shells, and 8mm bushings. I have yet to see them fail in a stock set-up.
- G&P’s have decent compression parts, and a nice ported cylinder. That being said, G&P might start using a full cylinder, and just pre-short stroke to decrease the cylinder volume.

Cons:
- G&P uses a thin tappet plate. When I say thin, I mean the part that the sector gear pulls back. This does not hinder stock performance, however when you switch out gears (you will…see the next con), you need to add a new tappet plate, or a sector clip.
- G&P’s gears are flawed in design. 90% of G&Ps that I have seen have needed their gears replaced within 30k rounds. When you do replace them, make sure to add a sector clip or new tappet plate (for the above reason).
- G&P has a low torque / high speed motor. This could be a pro or a con. See the post in the Pros for a more detailed description.

Misc:
There really isn’t anything in between about G&P. Its either great…or it will need to be replaced.

Externals:
G&P is regarded as one of the best brands for (M4) externals. I personally think they are fantastic. Most of their guns come with realistic trades. They look and feel very real. I have had great experiences in the past with G&P….you really can’t go wrong.
I have had no troubles with their externals, so there is nothing much more to say.

My final thought:
G&P is a fantastic brand. I only buy JG and G&P, because of the fact that either their internals or externals are the best in the business. G&P also performs fantastic out of the box. Other then the fact that they need their gears replaced, and their motor lacks torque, I don’t see a reason why you wouldn’t buy them. Not to mention that they shoot faster with a 9.6v than most guns shoot with an 11.1v (I’m talking to you KWA).

Internals: 7/10
Externals: 9.5/10
Entire Product: 8.5/10

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Tokyo Marui:
Tokyo Marui is often called the godfather of Airsoft. This is because, they were the pioneers of AEG’s as we know it. They are produced out of Tokyo (duh), and fire 270 - 330 fps. They generally retail for $250 - $500 +. TM has produced most models of the Airsoft guns that you see today. Including but not limited to, Armalites, G36’s, Ak’s, Scar’s, PSG-1, M14, and so many more. They all use the same quality internals. I will post all of their internals in one list this time, because a lot of them have pros and cons.

Internals:
Pros/Cons:
- Marui’s use the EG1000 motor. To this day, I believe it is a great motor. That being said, it uses ferrite magnets and isn’t incredibly torque-ish nor is it incredibly fast. It is a very balanced and reliable motor however.
- TM’s are notorious for weak V2s, however even the V2s will hold up for a very long time in a stock set-up. The rest of Tm’s gearboxes are just fine. They are cast, and made of zinc alloy. They employ 6mm bushings.
- On that note, the 6mm bushings in TM’s are nylon. That may sound bad, but they last fine in stock TM’s, and frankly, are better than the brass bushings that other AEG’s come with.
- The gears that Tokyo Marui use are machined as nicely as any Prometheus or Systema that I have seem. The only problem, is that the are some-what brittle, and the step (spur) gear is made from weak zinc alloy.
- Tokyo Marui’s use a plastic spring guide. They can get away with it because of their low fps, but if you plan to upgrade…it should be replaced.
- Tokyo Marui’s pistons are fantastic. They are extremely light, and surprisingly strong. The release tooth is metal. I know a lot of people that use them in high speed set-ups, however I prefer the Element clear.
- The piston head that Marui uses is nice…but not fantastic. It looks similar to the JG clear, and is almost as strong. My only gripe about it is that the screw is hidden beneath the head. This makes upgrading slightly difficult if you want to keep the stock piston.
- TM’s cylinder is ported according to the barrel length, and fits perfectly with the Cylinder Head.
- TM’s Tappet and nozzle are nothing special. Not great, not bad. They do fir very nicely together however.
- TM’s barrel/hop-up assembly is the best in the business. it’s a joy to just watch your bbs float on and on until they hit their target.

Externals:
-TM’s are generally made of ABS plastic. I am not a fan, but they hold up decently well.
Couple things to look out for:
-Their Ak’s stock aren’t the strongest, and are prone to breakage.
-Their Armalites are prone to breakage at the delta ring, and the multi-piece barrel has a way of warping over time.
-Their PSG-1 receiver is slightly flimsy.

My final thought:
Tokyo Marui is the classic AEG manufacturer. The come fantastically well tuned, and if left stock, will give you hundreds of thousands of un-interrupted rounds. They get fantastic range and accuracy, and really are great performers, even with such a low fps. They do have a few weak parts, but they also have several very nice parts that I throw in my guns as upgrades. TM is the most compatible brand on the market, and most upgrades feel like they were made for the gun.

Internals: 9/10 (We’re talking stock performance here).
Externals: 6/10
Entire Product: 8/10

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Alright, for the next few segments (mostly higher end guns), I will be using a slightly different format. There won’t be as in depth information, but you will still definitely get my point.

G&G:
G&G is essentially a better performing TM in some respects. They come in both plasticas/CM’s, along with their more expensive Pro-line versions. G&G mostly produce Armalites, but also produce AK’s and M14’s, along with some other out-of-the-ordinary guns.

Pros:
- G&Gs are actually tuned fairly decent compared to most other AEG’s in their price range. If you plan on running the gun on a 9.6v battery for the rest of your Airsoft career, this is the brand for you. However, if you are like me and like a bit of hot-sauce on your burger….there are several better choices.
- G&G’s barrels are 6.035mm. They are tighter than I run most of my tight bores, but suprisingly don’t get as great accuracy as one might hope. The nub/bucking combo is decent as well, but nowhere near the performance I expect from my AEGs.

Cons:
- Electric Blowback in general is just a poor idea. It will have to be disabled if you plan on pushing the gun at all. Not to mention, that it is just one more part to worry about breaking. That being said, it is also seen as very “cool” to a lot of players out there.

Misc:
- G&G’s internals are nothing to get excited about. Having not opened one up myself, I can’t give you all of the internal details that I did before. I will say this though, serious modification is required to get it to perform well in my book. However, if you are content with the standard 350 - 400 fps @ 20 rps, this gun is for you.

Externals:
They are decent as well. Their plactica and combat machine series have plastic bodies (duh), and their prolines use magnesium. Magnesium is light, but somewhat brittle….All of the G&G’s that I have handled/seen have held up fine for the most part.
AK’s (full) stocks bust. That is just the nature of the design. Not much more needs to be said.

Final thoughts:
G&G’s out of the box performance is tolerable. I am still waiting for the Airsoft revolution where everyone realizes just how poor all stock performing guns are…but that is another story.
So in summary: The performance is tolerable for a stock gun, and will compete fine with most other stock AEGs. G&G’s come tuned decently well (compared to JGs or other china brands). Upgradeability is pretty poor. If anyone has seen TAS on you tube (I’m talking about the video where they achieved 400+ foot hits), you’ll notice that almost every single part of the G&G they used was replaced.

Internals: 6.5/10
Externals: 7/10
Entire product: 7/10

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I would like to take a short segment to cover Deepfire. You don’t see many Deepfire AEGs around, but they really are nice guns. Let me list a couple pros and cons (in no specific order).
- They use PTW styled hop-ups. They are very stable, however aftermarket barrels and chambers are expensive and hard to come by.
- Their gears and piston teeth are coated in Titanium. They are quite strong, and I have pushed their pistons very far.
- They get nice compression, but shoot somewhat low fps.
- They have quite a fast motor. With a 11.1v or above, you are approaching buzz saw territory.
- They can take a 15.8v battery just fine. An 11.1v is easy.
- They have very nice metal bodies, and a good looking and stable RIS.
My final thoughts on Deepfire:
These AEGs come tuned how most KWA users wish their gun was. They are very well shimmed and adjusted. A very reliable gun, for sub $400 price. I really highly recommend them. They are fantastic, and will give you thousands upon thousands of un-interrupted rounds.

Internals: 9/10
Externals: 8.5/10
Entire Product: 9/10

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ICS:

Reviews here are completely owed to NightWolf and HunterSeeker5. I am to lazy to write something, so its basically a copy/paste type of deal.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This post will be edited within the next 24 hours with pros and cons and the like, but for now, I just have a short summary courtesy of HS5.

________________________________________________________________________________
____________________________________________

Some people love this brand, but I'm not one of them. Like CA they are rather stuck in the tar pits of "antiquity" and haven't really caught up with what we've come to expect from guns. The only possible reason I could see for buying one is either that they offer a proprietary model you just HAVE to have, because you are special like that, or because you have some inability to run a normal V2 gearbox and feel the need to get the split one. Since ICS' other models are really irrelevant I'll focus on the split GB M4s they are actually known for. In terms of OOTB performance you aren't looking good, and they usually need work right out of the box. The stock components you get with them have never really impressed me, although there technically are worse out there. Presumably though you bought the split GB design because you intend to actually work on the gun, so what it comes with isn't all that important. It is important to note here though that the front of the GB, while reinforced, isn't really significantly stronger than a standard V2, and is incompatible with some of the best high power reinforcing upgrades so your performance ceiling, contrary to popular belief, is actually lower than with a standard V2. Similar things can be said about the lower half of the GB. Essentially if you have your own tooling, and can fabricate parts, you are perfectly capable of making this work but if thats the case you don't need me explaining this to you. There are also a smattering of other proprietary parts all over the gun which I find a bit loathsome, and the whole thing really suffers from being not quite as clever as it thinks it is. If you really get off with hot swappable uppers you can just design a gun which works like that using a single GB, or you can buy a prowin. So to summarize OOTB performance is not so great and upgradability is not as good as a standard V2 plus the fact that you are starting with a handful of not so nice parts some of which are proprietary.

Next Part Courtesy of NightWolf.

ICS was one of the big three, the first innovators of AEG's in Airsoft, to include Tokyo Marui, Classic Army and ICS. However, ICS took a different approach to make a unique gun with features not found on others.

This would include the split gearbox design, something used in the very high end System PTW's. It allows you to remove the upper gearbox assembly and swap it with a spare upper gearbox in seconds and change your FPS of the gun. I personally keep a couple of spare upper gearboxes on hand, tuned for 300fps, 350fps and 400fps, depending on the game I am playing. This allows you to have a CQB rated gun for those events when called for and a more powerful gun for field events, all without having to tear a standard V2 gearbox apart. Another benefit of the split gearbox is that the upper gearbox is very robust and can handle some pretty heavy springs for higher FPS applications. The gears themselves are strong and I have yet to have one break on me, although I have never really exceeded a M140 spring. Another feature of th split gearbox design is that the Forward Assist button is actually functional on the ICS. It allows you to reset the mainspring so it isn't compressed and this retains its tension better than a standard AEG. The upper and lower gearboxes can use many of the same internal parts as a standard AEG. You can even use the same anti-reverse latch, but this would disable the forward assist feature. Moreover, it does take standard tightbore barrel upgrades, so there are no issues in this regard.

There are some cons. With these added features comes some give and take. The ICS externals are nice enough, but the metal Receivers are slightly longer than a standard M4 AEG, and thus so proprietary. This means you have to use their rear stock, unless you find someone to mod a standard stock and you also need to stick with their front barrel nut assembly. This is due to the fact that the ICS barrel nut threads are cut shallower than a standard AEG. ICS and JBU, which makes the aftermarket parts for ICS, do make compatible rail systems for the gun if you wish to customize it. There is a tool you can buy though that works well (I have one and have used it on more than one occasion) and actually cuts deeper threads in the front of the ICS receiver so that you can mount other aftermarket standard RAS/RIS systems.

Another drawback is that you can only use ICS receivers; one thing to note though is that parts are readily available, so you are not stuck with a gun you cannot fix. Such items like the AR latch, proprietary upper and lower gearboxes and lower gearbox interlock are available, although rarely replaced. The hopup assembly is also proprietary, but can be replaced by a skilled airsoftsmith. I have found that it works well enough though once the bucking is upgraded. I would rate the wiring average; not as soft as some high end AEG's but not exactly terrible either as long as you are not messing with it. Finally, the custom Delta ring uses a wound spring for tension, which can leave the foregrips feeling a bit loose. This can easily be replaced with a real steel Delta Ring Weld Spring.

In summary, I would list the ICS M4-A1 pros and cons as follows-

Pros:

Well constructed, strong metal upper and lower receivers with no wobble
Decent coloring on upper and lower receivers with nice "engraved" Stag Arms or Colt trademarks
Quick change upper gearbox; FPS can be changed in seconds by swapping in another upper gearbox
Reasonably priced and available proprietary replacement parts
Heavy duty reinforced gearbox design
Individual gearboxes much easier to work on than a standard V2 gearbox
Strong steel gears
Working Forward Assist - releases mainspring tension for storage
Year the model was built incorporated into the serial number for easy identification
Majority of the Internals compatible with standard aftermarket upgrade parts


Cons:

Proprietary Upper and Lower Receiver
Proprietary Gearbox's
Proprietary Barrel Nut, Delta Ring, Buffer Tube
Proprietary Hopup and a couple internals
Requires machining work for replacing hopup unit with aftermarket part
Requires modification of upper receiver barrel threads to take aftermarket RAS/RIS assemblies
Weak Delta ring spring design
Mediocre stock piston/head assembly, not recommended for upgrades, better to upgrade a second upper gearbox
________________________________________________________________
Next up:
VFC, Ares, and Classic Army.
Thank you to Hunterseeker5 (G&G segment), and TheJawn (edits...spelling mistakes :) ) for all of the help.

This post has been edited by Star_folder: Jun 24 2011, 09:36 AM
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-JOE-
post Apr 25 2011, 06:32 PM
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You have out-done yourself again, major!

Keep up the amazing work and I think I speak for everyone when I say thank you for all the knowledge you share for the ASF community. a-thumbsup.gif
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Simley
post Apr 25 2011, 06:38 PM
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I don't have words for this... However, great may fit. This is a great thread, thanks for clearing up a good chunk Major. I think I'm going to buy a JG for my brother, hopefully he likes M4 variants, or CYMA if he wants AK variants.

This should be stickied.


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Admiral*Fury
post Apr 25 2011, 06:40 PM
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Very nice! I'd love to see a few of the high end AEG's reviewed in this thread, but great work so far.

QUOTE (Simley @ Apr 25 2011, 07:38 PM) *
I don't have words for this... However, great may fit. This is a great thread, thanks for clearing up a good chunk Major. I think I'm going to buy a JG for my brother, hopefully he likes M4 variants, or CYMA if he wants AK variants.

This should be stickied.

No one reads stickies, but I agree with you.

This post has been edited by Admiral*Fury: Apr 25 2011, 06:46 PM


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Stealthmaster14
post Apr 25 2011, 06:55 PM
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Very nice job.

I just have a few things to point out about SRC Gen 2s. You might want to make a note that you are describing the Gen 3s, which are significantly better than the Gen 2s.

The Gen 2s do not come with a battery and charger. The Gen 2 G36s are terrible IMO. They have a significant amount of off-spec/proprietary parts (gearbox shell and gears are a major one). The gearbox shell will not accept other gears in my experience as it is designed around their spur gear which has very thin teeth. (so it can be shimmed lower) I tried using an Element and JG gearset, but they could not be shimmed low enough without grinding against each other. This caused the sector gear to bump part of the tappet rail in rotation and would also be too tight against the tappet plate. Major air loss.

The cylinder head does not fit in JG gearboxes. (but JGs can fit in SRC gearboxes)

My motor cage adjustment screw stripped out. (so I went through 2 pinions before I found out the problem) Had they used a small plastic piece for the set screw to screw into (like JG), it wouldn't have happened.

The stock SRC G36 hop up chamber is horrible. Hop up arm has a lot of play, so it puts inconsistent pressure on the bucking. It gives a poor air seal as well. Barrel and bucking are decent.

Stock wiring is terrible. I think it may even be worse than JG wiring. It adds a ton of resistance and the tamiya connectors added even more. The battery would die pretty quickly with only an SP110 spring. (Elite 9.6v 1500mah battery) It has a freaking torque motor stock too.


Don't touch the Gen 2s or at least the G36 series. I really only liked the externals and the green piston.

This post has been edited by Stealthmaster14: Apr 25 2011, 06:56 PM


--------------------

Custom JG G36K-Madbull 6.03mm 363mm tightbore, Falcon 70 degree bucking, Deans, Guarder spring guide, Guarder SP110, Element POM bearing piston head, #14 O ring, longer air nozzle, SRC type 0 cylinder, dream army 7mm bushings, AOE adjusted
Youtube channel-http://www.youtube.com/user/Stealthmaster15?feature=mhum

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Pruett0434
post Apr 25 2011, 06:59 PM
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Good thread man! Good amount of very useful information and im glad you included JG and CYMA because most new airsofters get stuck between those two brands when buying a first AEG and this might help push them one way or the other. Kudos!
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The Jam
post Apr 25 2011, 07:06 PM
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thanks major, glad you're not leaving.


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shlunka
post Apr 25 2011, 07:10 PM
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Not really sure about the TM internals, as they only shoot 300fps or so, and cannot be compared with guns with 400fps or higher. But, great thread, hopefully most of the new guys looking for a new gun will check this out. Nice Job!


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major9
post Apr 25 2011, 07:13 PM
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Thanks for all the great feedback everyone. Just trying to clear things up a bit, so ASF isn't as bombarded with the brand vs. brand threads that explode into a flame war (might I remind you of the KWA vs. Ares debate). a-salute.gif
Stealthmaster - Thanks for the info. I will update the thread to show that it is the gen. 3 I'm talking about. However, the Gearbox is still slightly off spec from what I have seen.
AdmrialFury - Thanks! I will be adding more high end guns as I go. These guns alone took me a good 3 days of on and off working. I agree about the sticky parts (no-one reads them), but there really isn't anyway to get an "eternal bump" and just stay at the top of the forums (that would have its own problems anyways). I just hope I can help clear some things up for the players wanting to buy a serious AEG. I really wish some-one would have made this guide when I was buying my first gun (which was a KWA SR10 FYI). Anyways, Thanks for the great feedback.
Thanks again everyone.
Expect more guns in the future (should be done by the end of the week).
- Major9

Quick edit: Shlunka - I rated TM so high because of the longevity and compatibility of their stock performance/internals. If a newbie were too buy one, they could go to years and years of skirmishes without ever having to deal with the problems KWA's, G&P's, JG's, or any other guns have. Glad to hear you approve though.

This post has been edited by major9: Apr 25 2011, 07:16 PM
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airborne101
post Apr 25 2011, 07:22 PM
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Wow, excellent guide. Once you add a few more guns, I will be sticking this guide. Hopefully we will make a "Which Gun" sub forum where members will be able to ask the famous which gun questions that we currently do not allow. Ill be sure to pin this there as well.


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Messinator
post Apr 25 2011, 07:26 PM
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The one issue I see is that many newbies don't read anything, they just post their question. If they do read anything, however, it better be this. Nice job.
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S197
post Apr 25 2011, 07:31 PM
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Nice post, I think this will help a lot of people new to airsoft. Just a few clarifications on KWA. The warranty is 45 days, not 30. Also the SR10, SR12, and M16BR barrels are made in Japan, not Taiwan. I believe only the M4 and CQB guns are made in Taiwan for cost savings.
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Jerichow
post Apr 25 2011, 07:37 PM
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Very, very nice Major, by far the most informative review on such a broad range of brands I have seen yet.

I'll attest, JG's gears, as well as SRC's piston are very nice, and yes, SRC's Sector ratio's not normal, it ran at 12,000 rounds @ an M120 ~20rps but blew out on an M110 in 300 rounds in my ICS M4.

I took the gears and just short stroked them with a TM Piston to match teeth and now they're pulling an M120 SS'd 3 teeth ~30rps and show no signs of slowing down. I'll change the piston to a metal rack one and drop an M130 in there and post an update after 10k rounds or if something breaks(I'm assuming 10k rounds will come first, the gears are awesome)


--------------------
"The path of least resistance is the past of least reward."

QUOTE (Slippy @ Jan 6 2012, 07:39 PM) *
Version 6 is my favorite, version 3's trigger assembly is a punch to the nuts.

QUOTE (BigEd @ Nov 6 2011, 06:53 AM) *
I am 40 now... I enjoy airsoft artillery support. One shot = Seven kills.
My version of CQB is leveling the entire building.
///ed///
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major9
post Apr 25 2011, 07:38 PM
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airborne101 - Yay! I'm really happy to hear you approve.
Messinator - That really will always be the problem....hopefully this guide helps at least a little bit.
S197 - Wow...my mistake. I really should have know about that warranty *facepalms*. At any rate, I'll change the info. Thanks.
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ikliiu
post Apr 25 2011, 08:25 PM
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Major, do you think you can add ARES in this line up? (that is is you used it before)
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conmanagc
post Apr 25 2011, 08:31 PM
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Glad to see you stayed, major. Even more glad to see that you stayed, and then whipped out this awesome guide!
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major9
post Apr 25 2011, 08:32 PM
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Yes sir. Absolutely. I am in the process of doing VFC. Next will be G&G, which I may need some help with (JOE....). After that will be Ares, ICS, and Classic Army. I will also make smaller paragraphs about lesser brands (Deepfire, LTC, Kart). Thanks for the suggestions.

Edit:
Thanks for the support conmanagc. I'm glad I stayed to :)

This post has been edited by major9: Apr 25 2011, 08:34 PM
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-JOE-
post Apr 25 2011, 08:33 PM
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KWA uses 9mm bearings, not bushings. Actually just about everywhere you say bushings it should be bearings. a-wink.gif

Nevermind verisimilitude says the delta ring is standard size. They just need all the paint to be removed for them to accept aftermarket rails easily.

I think that most, if not all of these stats are M4s, correct? Might want to clarify that too.

This post has been edited by -JOE-: Apr 26 2011, 08:59 AM
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major9
post Apr 25 2011, 08:36 PM
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Wow...thats news to me. Bearings are even worse! Anyways, noted, and edited.
Thanks!
- Major9

Edit: The internal segment for KWA applies to both the KM4 and the G36C. Externals are mostly for the KM4, as I haven't handled the G36C.


Also (to everyone else), If you have a correction, I would really appreciate if you PM me rather than post in this thread.

This post has been edited by major9: Apr 25 2011, 08:45 PM
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Jerichow
post Apr 25 2011, 09:06 PM
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Bearings aren't bad as long as you aren't pushing them too hard. I have two guns running 7mm bearings, one at 320fps going ~30rps and the other around 340fps ~15rps and they hold up without a problem. 8mm and 9mm can go much, much higher without any risk of problems but for something like your P90 lol.... yeah bushings are better a-wink.gif

I like ICS but their main problem is the Imperial measurements and a lot of their externals are very proprietary and require heavy and permanent modification in order for them to fit. I got a normal DBoys outer barrel on it, but I had to cut off one of the tabs on the receiver side that holds the barrel still in order to get it to fit, and even then I have to use ICS's crap-tastical Delta Ring unless I want to go through the painstaking task of rethreading it.

I've also begun filing and dremmeling down the buffer tube mount on my ICS M4 in order to fit normal TM-style buffer tubes on it because ICS's buffer tube guides expand as they get closer to the body.

Keep in mind they also use specialty motor grips which don't sit exactly right on TM-style AEGs and likewise, Magpull grips or my G27 grip needed to be dremmeled at the front to shave material off in order for it to fit on the gun. Once about 1-2mm are shaved off they fit, but the gap is noticeable once put back on a normal TM-based M4.

Pmags fit like a dream, btw.

If you can mod a single piece of a TM-style hop up you can use normal one-piece hop-ups in an ICS, you just need to shave off the front half of the 'foot' that outlines the bottom feeding tube so that it has that cover on the back half and not the front. This allows you to fit the hop up all the way in to the upper receiver and use normal Guarder, SHS, Element, etc V2 Air Nozzles vs the ICS ones which are about 1mm smaller diameter than TM ones.

Will update later once I get home from work.


--------------------
"The path of least resistance is the past of least reward."

QUOTE (Slippy @ Jan 6 2012, 07:39 PM) *
Version 6 is my favorite, version 3's trigger assembly is a punch to the nuts.

QUOTE (BigEd @ Nov 6 2011, 06:53 AM) *
I am 40 now... I enjoy airsoft artillery support. One shot = Seven kills.
My version of CQB is leveling the entire building.
///ed///
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TheJawn
post Apr 25 2011, 09:13 PM
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yeah ics has alot going for them. giving them the fair amount of coverage and attention they deserve will be... challenging.
THE GUIDE IS EXCELLENT SO FAR!
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major9
post Apr 25 2011, 09:24 PM
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Thanks for the support TheJawn. I appreciate all the help you have given thus far. PM inbound on a couple things...

Edit: I really need some info ICS guns. Anyone who has some decent experience with the internals, please PM me.

This post has been edited by major9: Apr 25 2011, 09:50 PM
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verisimilitude
post Apr 25 2011, 10:15 PM
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QUOTE (major9 @ Apr 25 2011, 07:23 PM) *
- One thing I had a problem with, is that the top rail on the upper receiver was wobbly, and I could not find a fix to that. Scopes sat crooked, and it threw of my aim a bit.

The top rail issue afflicted a few guns. KWA posted a fix on the KWA technical forums, where the issue has also been discussed. The forums on the KWA website are yet one more incredible resource that no other manufacturer enjoys or provides.

QUOTE (major9 @ Apr 25 2011, 07:23 PM) *
- Also, KWA uses a Delta ring that is in-between standard and G&P size (yet another compatibility issue.

I don't know if you mean the delta ring itself, the barrel nut that fits inside it, or the threads on the upper receiver that the nut fits on to. Mention of G&P leads me to believe you're actually referring to the threads. If so, this statement is incorrect. The KWA threads are standard metric airsoft, though they're pushing the tolerances at the "fat" size of what that would be. They are only "off" by the thickness of a coat of paint. In fact, a couple of quality minutes with a dremel and a wire brush attachment, and standard metric airsoft nuts will screw on to them quite happily.



--------------------
Some pics from the collection: Eight Different M16s and M4s & Ten Pistols

********************************************************************************
For an account of recent experiences with barrel nuts, receiver threads, front rails, and the different sizes of R.S., airsoft metric, and G&P imperial, see here: Barrel nuts and receiver threads
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major9
post Apr 25 2011, 10:36 PM
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Feel free to hash it out with JOE. I was just going by what he said. Let's not turn this into another KWA debate please. I stuck to the facts as much as possible. If you found fault, feel free to PM me, but let's try to keep this thread clean.
Thanks,
Major9
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Dr. Flush
post Apr 25 2011, 10:51 PM
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Great thread. I'm glad to hear you will be reviewing Ares. Looking forward to that! Keep up the good work! a-salute.gif


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major9
post Apr 26 2011, 04:11 PM
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Thread has been edited to include G&G, as well as Deepfire.
More to come...
Stay tuned.
- Major9
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ServedConsistent...
post Apr 26 2011, 08:09 PM
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It'd be great if put something in here about various quirks inherent in each gun model such as difficulty of take down, soundness of gearbox version, etc.


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post Apr 27 2011, 06:04 PM
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QUOTE (major9 @ Apr 25 2011, 07:23 PM) *
These AEGs come tuned how most KWA users wish their gun was.


That might cause some possible flame wars in the future, both otherwise very nice overview. If it continues like this it should definitely be stickied. Wish I had known more of deep fire before I got my KWA, the only thing I could find on them was RWA =/


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B1indsid3
post Apr 30 2011, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE (dxfan212 @ Apr 27 2011, 07:04 PM) *
That might cause some possible flame wars in the future, both otherwise very nice overview. If it continues like this it should definitely be stickied. Wish I had known more of deep fire before I got my KWA, the only thing I could find on them was RWA =/


I think thats the intention dxfan212. Funny how there are a few of those clear rips on KWA in there. I also don't see any shots at other high end manufacturers. No "I'm talking to you Deepfire" or "how most G&P users wish their guns was" comments. So much for unbiased. I just chalk it up to antagonistic/provocative at this point, and try to ignore it.
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Liopleurodon
post May 4 2011, 12:29 PM
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Good work! But don't forget A&K, AGM and APS. a-cheesy.gif


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ikliiu
post May 8 2011, 11:22 AM
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Major, any updates on the next section?
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major9
post May 8 2011, 04:06 PM
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Sorry guys, Life has been incredibly busy lately....school + job + airsoft....I had to prioritize for a bit.

Not to worry though, I will update before the end of the weak with ICS, VFC, and probably a few others.

Thanks for the support,
Major9
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-Griffin-
post May 8 2011, 04:12 PM
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Not all Echo 1s are JG. Might want to edit that out.

Didn't read it all the way through, but what I saw was great.

This post has been edited by Runner: May 8 2011, 04:14 PM
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BBSlinger
post May 13 2011, 04:49 PM
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Hey,

Great thread here!!

But, Under G&G Con's you put the Blowback system. The one they Developed or the Raider does no damage to the gun at all.

Other then that, great job!


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ikliiu
post May 22 2011, 09:01 PM
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Any news on the ARES section, I've been looking forward to seeing that.
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Heath
post Jun 6 2011, 10:15 PM
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QUOTE (major9 @ Apr 25 2011, 06:23 PM) *
Alright, for the next few segments (mostly higher end guns), I will be using a slightly different format. There won’t be as in depth information, but you will still definitely get my point.

G&G:
G&G is essentially a better performing TM in some respects. They come in both plasticas/CM’s, along with their more expensive Pro-line versions. G&G mostly produce Armalites, but also produce AK’s and M14’s, along with some other out-of-the-ordinary guns.

Pros:
- G&Gs are actually tuned fairly decent compared to most other AEG’s in their price range. If you plan on running the gun on a 9.6v battery for the rest of your Airsoft career, this is the brand for you. However, if you are like me and like a bit of hot-sauce on your burger….there are several better choices.
- G&G’s barrels are 6.035mm. They are tighter than I run most of my tight bores, but suprisingly don’t get as great accuracy as one might hope. The nub/bucking combo is decent as well, but nowhere near the performance I expect from my AEGs.

Cons:
- Electric Blowback in general is just a poor idea. It will have to be disabled if you plan on pushing the gun at all. Not to mention, that it is just one more part to worry about breaking. That being said, it is also seen as very “cool” to a lot of players out there.

Misc:
- G&G’s internals are nothing to get excited about. Having not opened one up myself, I can’t give you all of the internal details that I did before. I will say this though, serious modification is required to get it to perform well in my book. However, if you are content with the standard 350 - 400 fps @ 20 rps, this gun is for you.

Externals:
They are decent as well. Their plactica and combat machine series have plastic bodies (duh), and their prolines use magnesium. Magnesium is light, but somewhat brittle….All of the G&G’s that I have handled/seen have held up fine for the most part.
AK’s (full) stocks bust. That is just the nature of the design. Not much more needs to be said.

Final thoughts:
G&G’s out of the box performance is tolerable. I am still waiting for the Airsoft revolution where everyone realizes just how poor all stock performing guns are…but that is another story.
So in summary: The performance is tolerable for a stock gun, and will compete fine with most other stock AEGs. G&G’s come tuned decently well (compared to JGs or other china brands). Upgradeability is pretty poor. If anyone has seen TAS on you tube (I’m talking about the video where they achieved 400+ foot hits), you’ll notice that almost every single part of the G&G they used was replaced.

Internals: 6.5/10
Externals: 7/10
Entire product: 7/10


You hit the nail on the head, exactly why I bought my G2010. I am superbly happy with it and with the exception of a rewire and a cheetah, it is bone stock and makes for a very versatile weapon. It feels solidly built and G&G has some awesome customer support when things do fail. There was only one part out of spec, the charging handle's joint (which is just for looks) and they worked with me and sent me a new part (at $15 shipping cost lol). Not only was the new part shipped to me but was also cast out of steel/aluminum, instead of sintered powder. They know English, which is something to be said from a company overseas.

Take care of your gun and it will take care of you. They're just like a car. If you leave the same oil in there for 15000 miles, it's going to cause it to fail. Also if you use at a high rate of fire or power, parts will fail faster. Just like adding a nitrous system to your car. Service your gun every 10000 rounds, but I digress. Good job for the most part.

This post has been edited by Heath: Jun 6 2011, 10:16 PM


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Lorelei - M16/M4 DMR - 430 fps - Temporarily 334 (.25g) fps for cqb
Letje - G&G G2010 - current primary - 325-425 fps :: G2010 Info Thread
Lola - JG Bar-10 - 495 fps
Luisa - KJW M9 - A glorious combatant
My rather small arsenal!
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yee245
post Jun 7 2011, 12:13 AM
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I'd also suggest that you put a note about G&G's externals that it varies by model. At least with their SIGs I've heard multiple accounts of how they are pretty much as close to the feel of the real rifle as you can get, short of having actual trademarks. The receiver is stamped steel, not magnesium like other models might have. Also, I'm just a bit curious about your rating system. Is that 6.5-7-7 rating that you gave the G&G lineup for their sportline series? Proline? I mean, you stated that the JG was going to be talking about the enhanced ones, but what about the G&G, which clearly has a few completely different lineups. Also, you state that the G&G comes relatively well tuned compared to brands like JG, yet the JG has a noticeably higher rating of 8.5 for its internals. So, the motor might be the good one, and the gears and piston head are good, but you might get a bad piston, a bad air nozzle, a poor stock barrel, sub-par hop up, etc. Do the gears and motor make up for the fact that most of the rest of the internals are subpar, where you suggest G&G's are overall average? In fact, of all the Chinese brands, only Cyma has an equal (or lower) rating for internals than G&G.

Pretty much, I would say that a lot of things depend on the model of gun you're getting. Sure, a KWA/G&P/DF Armalite is probably going to be much better than a TM, but given the ratings, it would suggest a TM SIG is going to be better than a G&G SIG. The ideal "which gun question" thead would have it sorted by model. Have the Armalites compared by brand. Have the G36s compared by brand. Compare the AKs by brand. Having general statements about brands and quality isn't completely helpful, at least in my opinion. That sort of compilation of information would be a lot, even for a group of people to do, and if I had more experience with the CA sportline P90 or maybe the G&G and ICS SIG 552, I'd be glad to put together something answering the "which P90?" or "which SIG?" (not that I think I've seen those come up) questions (and the basic answer is TM for the P90 and G&G for the SIG).
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major9
post Jun 22 2011, 12:43 PM
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Will have a very in detail segment on ICS by the end of today.
-Major9
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major9
post Jun 23 2011, 09:32 PM
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Alright...I can;t edit the Op, so I'll just post about ICS here.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reviews here are completely owed to NightWolf and HunterSeeker5. I am to lazy to write something, so its basically a copy/paste type of deal.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This post will be edited within the next 24 hours with pros and cons and the like, but for now, I just have a short summary courtesy of HS5.

________________________________________________________________________________
____________________________________________

Some people love this brand, but I'm not one of them. Like CA they are rather stuck in the tar pits of "antiquity" and haven't really caught up with what we've come to expect from guns. The only possible reason I could see for buying one is either that they offer a proprietary model you just HAVE to have, because you are special like that, or because you have some inability to run a normal V2 gearbox and feel the need to get the split one. Since ICS' other models are really irrelevant I'll focus on the split GB M4s they are actually known for. In terms of OOTB performance you aren't looking good, and they usually need work right out of the box. The stock components you get with them have never really impressed me, although there technically are worse out there. Presumably though you bought the split GB design because you intend to actually work on the gun, so what it comes with isn't all that important. It is important to note here though that the front of the GB, while reinforced, isn't really significantly stronger than a standard V2, and is incompatible with some of the best high power reinforcing upgrades so your performance ceiling, contrary to popular belief, is actually lower than with a standard V2. Similar things can be said about the lower half of the GB. Essentially if you have your own tooling, and can fabricate parts, you are perfectly capable of making this work but if thats the case you don't need me explaining this to you. There are also a smattering of other proprietary parts all over the gun which I find a bit loathsome, and the whole thing really suffers from being not quite as clever as it thinks it is. If you really get off with hot swappable uppers you can just design a gun which works like that using a single GB, or you can buy a prowin. So to summarize OOTB performance is not so great and upgradability is not as good as a standard V2 plus the fact that you are starting with a handful of not so nice parts some of which are proprietary.
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Star_folder
post Jun 23 2011, 10:00 PM
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Don't be a pansy.


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OP edited with permission.

Keep up the good work Major.

a-thumbsup.gif


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