Alright, I want to start off with this…

I am not some little kid that just got into this hobby. I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH AIRSOFT FOR ABOUT A YEAR NOW AND CURRENTLY OWN 6 AIRSOFT GUNS (KWA M16, UTG L96, Airsoft Elite ICS Mp5 SD6, CYMA 030, JG S-System, G&G M4 Plastic, JG Full Metal AK47); before this I played paintball for 6 years. Also, I am not some little kid that is here to “rant and rave” about being scammed from some company/seller. I AM A 22 YEAR OLD BUSINESS INFORMATION SYSTEMS MAJOR AT MISSISSIPPI STATE UNIVERSITY, which is here to warn YOU!!! I have been involved in buying and selling items via the internet since I was thirteen, so I know what I am doing. Those years of experience with E-Business transactions (Business done via the Internet), and my knowledge of computers has lead to me clean slate; meaning, I have not been “TAO-Taken Advantage Of”. I use the phrase TAO, because some people do not break laws when they “jip” people; they are simply not conducting good business ethics. Therefore, I only refer to a bad transaction as “scammed” when laws are broken during the transaction, which in turn leads to the buyer loosing something. Anyways now hopefully you see you can trust, so here goes:

I recently got a buddy of mine interested in this exhilarating hobby. He was interested in playing, but had no gear of his own, so I let him borrow my stuff one afternoon; after only one game he was hooked. Later that same night, I received a call from his girlfriend. She informed me that my friend could not stop talking about his experience. He now had dreams of getting his own gear and playing all the time, so that gave her an idea. Their one year anniversary was coming up soon and she wanted to surprise him with a gun. However, she knew nothing about the sport or how to go about getting the present, so she asked for my help; without hesitating I said yes.

The next week or so I spent undercover trying to figure out what version gun he wanted. After I learned he wanted a M4, I asked his girlfriend for her limit; surprisingly it was REALLY high!!! Keep in mind she is a full time student and only works part time, so the money would be coming from her savings account. Anyways now that I knew her limit I took a hour and half to type up my suggestions for guns and your basic load outs: gun, battery, charger, bbs, extra mags, vests, camo, ect… Eventually we decided his best option was a KWA M4 setup, so I told her where to go to buy everything; airsoftatlanta.com.

She put in an order at airsoftatlanta.com on 2/24/2009 for the following items: KWA KM4A1, Intellect 9.6v 2000mah Nunchuk battery, Universal Smart Charger, and some cheap electric pistol (she wanted something for herself in case he shot her, lol). Since we are in Mississippi we opted for the free UPS Ground shipping with all orders over $199. Upon ordering the stuff I told her to keep an eye out for an email stating the tracking number along with the possible arrival date; however, she didn’t even get a chance to. The next day, airsoftatlanta called her house to let her know the gun was currently out of stock and it would be about a week or so before it became available again. Also, they told her they would not ship anything until everything was in stock because it would cost them extra money if they did that. Since she had never dealt with any type of transaction like this she freaked! She checked her bank account to see if the money was still there and it wasn’t; airsoftatlanta already had her money!!! So, she called me to check and see if this was normal. I assured her that everything was fine and this sometimes happens in this business (airsoft retail). However, I was a little concerned when she said they were waiting before they shipped everything. I have ordered items from places such as evike.com in the past and they sent what they had at the time to keep from selling out other stuff before the original out of stock item became available again. However, I just assumed airsoftatlanta meant they would hold everything else until the gun got there and then ship everything at once.

Anyways a week later she called to check on the order and was told that it may take longer than normal for the gun to arrive due to problems at the warehouse; no biggie, because I knew this could happen. So, I went on with my life. A week later I just happened to be on airsoftatlanta.com and noticed the gun was back in stock. Upon noticing this I contacted the girlfriend asking if she had an email about shipping information, but to no avail! She still did not have an email, so I told her to wait a day or so. She waited two and then decided to call them back.

They explained to her that the gun was back in stock, but the battery was now out of stock and they were waiting on it before they shipped everything. She didn’t put up a fuss or anything and just went on her merry way. She then contacted me and told me what they said. It made me a little upset, but I am an understanding guy. So, I just assumed it was an honest mistake and that they didn’t mean to sell all the batteries, so again I went on with my life.

HOWEVER… A week later I noticed the battery was back in stock and told her to call them back. THEY THEN TRIED TO TELL HER THAT THE CHARGER WAS NOW OUT OF STOCK AND THAT SHE WOULD HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL IT BECAME AVAILABLE AGAIN!!! This upset her and I, so she had her father call them; this was not a good conversation from what I hear. He hung up after he said his peace and they called back about ten minutes later. They said they had a slightly more expensive charger in stock and they would ship it along with everything else out that day. This pleased us, so now we just had to hope everything got here safe and that it actually worked; UNFORTUNATELY IT DIDN’T.

The gun shot about 30 times and then we heard a loud metal on metal grinding, which quickly changed to free spinning of the gears or the motor. I told him it was no big deal and that he should call airsoftatlanta.com the next day and obtain a RMA (Return Merchandise Authorization) number. I went onto to state that they should take it back because the problem was due to a factory defect; so, he did.

Upon answering the phone and listening to the problem the airsoftatlanta representative asked what type of bbs we used in the gun. We told him Matrix bbs from evike and he tried to say he couldn’t uphold the warranty because we used low quality bbs in the gun; basically, according to their website unless you buy their bbs, they consider them low quality bbs. I have used about 10-30,000 of those bbs in my KWA M16BR and never had any problems. After some more talking he said we could ship the gun to him at our expense and if he determined the bbs did not break the gun, they would swap the gun for a new one. KEEP IN MIND I CHECKED THE GUN AND THERE WERE NO JAMMED BBS IN THE GUN… HECK AS A MATTER OF FACT IT BROKE DURING WHEN THERE WAS NO BBS IN IT!!! Anyways, we shipped them the gun and of course… They concluded the bbs broke the gun, so now my friend and his girlfriend is out the original cost of the gun, and shipping costs both to and from airsoftatlanta.

Hopefully everyone will take this all in and help me get airsoftatlanta to get their act together!!! I do not want to put them out of business nor do I wish harm to them, but I would like them to conduct better business ethics!!! Thank you for everyone’s time, interest, and good luck in all that you do! G0D BLESS!!!

Not sure why the other thread got closed... Its a legit discussion... Wrong section, I guess? Anyway, heres a copy n' paste of my reply in that thread

------------------------------------------------

Well, theres another store off of my list. I'm as frustrated with these airsoft retailers as you are. They get your money, and then they think they can do whatever they want. If I were you, I'd get as many people as possible to email them about it saying they that won't buy from them because of this. Maybe they'll realize that they should get their together.

So far, out of $3500 or so spent on airsoft stuff, my only successful multiple transactions are with:

ASGI
eHobby

My failed multiple transactions are with:

Evike (several bad transactions, serious ones too)
Airsoft Buddy (one 2 month long bad transaction)
Ho Kelvin (ebay)


Funny thing is that I have never had this much trouble shopping online... I think the problem is that alot of the stuff sold is cheap and prone to failure. The retailers don't wanna take the loss, but they don't wanna bite the hand that feeds them either (in this case, their distributer). So it all gets put onto the customer shoulders and we take the loss. Seriously, is it too much to ask... if you don't have it, don't sell it. If its broken, fix it.

------------------------------

EDIT-

BTW, in response to what someone else said about it 'not being their fault', I do believe it is their fault. I don't take payment for items that I don't have and then make people wait after they have paid. I also do not sell guns that don't work, and then say that its not my fault. Not that I have done this, but if for some crazy reason someone told me the gun I sold them didn't work, I would at the very least try to repair it, or pay for a reasonably priced repair service in their area. And if not that, a full refund upon return of the item.

Trying to cut yourself out of the chain of responsibility is BS, plain and simple. You (as a store) bought broken merchandise and resold it under the pretense that it was working (whether you knew it or not). This is between you and your customer, and you and your distributer. Not between the customer and the distributer/manufacturer. The customer didn't buy anything from them, they bought it from you. Now if its several weeks after the purchase, then yes, the customer would need to take it up with the manufacturer rather than the store.

Also, this guy paid for items under the pretense that they were in stock. Either it needs to be partial shipped, or partial/fully refunded. If the 'policy' that was agreed to is to wait until all items are in stock, then STOP SELLING THE GUYS ORDER OUT FROM UNDER HIM... lol... WTF...

This post has been edited by Devilstar2k2: Apr 18 2009, 12:56 PM

I am glad you said this because I forgot to mention... When AA called to inform us that they would not be upholding their warranty they made this statement, "We can't uphold the warranty, but we could fix it for $50." Lol, not sure about everyone else, but that does not sound like good business ethics to me; sounds like they are trying to take us for all we got.

AGAIN I AM NOT HERE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT AA... I JUST WANT TO WARN PEOPLE ABOUT OUR RECENT TRANSACTION BECAUSE IT MAY SAVE SOMEONE A LOT OF TIME AND MONEY. YES, IT MAY HARM AA BUSINESS IN THE SHORT/LONG RUN, BUT THAT MAYBE A GOOD THING... I mean if they clean up their act by getting rid of the policies that caused my situation, doesn't that help everyone? The company by having a better reputation and less complaints; as well as the consumer, by receiving better business ethics for their buck.

I still don't see how this is AA's fault.. they were following policy


I get all my stuff from them, and I've yet to come across a single problem



KK21

I bought a TM MP7 from them and they shipped it out same day, and got it 2 days later. Works great.

Strange that your friend didn't.

Unfortunately not all transactions can be completed in a satisfactory manner all the time. I agree with you that they seemed to be using bad business ethics but they need to make money and you most likely already understand that. Sometimes good companies have bad apples that come along you know? Or maybe they've had a problem with people breaking their new guns because of the owner's fault and trying to blame AA for shipping a bad gun? Either way I'm sorry for your experience. The only orders I've made although and know that my friends have are from Airsoftgi.com. They have something good going on but I guess the lesson is that you just can't trust someone who is selling you something.

OP - Sorry about your luck. I've been involved with crap transactions like that too, just not with AA. I can't tell if everything is resolved yet or not from your post. If it isn't, drop the BBB a line if you've exhausted every other means. Also, if there are still goods not received, but charged to the GF's account, kindly tell AA to flag off and that your are disputing the charge. Get things right or get out and never use them again. ASGI screwed me around for a month until I got the BBB involved.

Airsoft is a weird business. Seems like there is a total lack of customer service. Poor communication. Wrong items sent. Hassles correcting errors the company made, not the customer. It's bizarre. It's seemingly opposite of most of the RC world. I've rarely had an RC order messed up. When I have, it's corrected quickly and without much butt pain. I'm not sure why airsoft companies can afford to do business this way. My hunch is because customers let them. What's a 15 year old kid that got stiffed going to do?

Now, I treat all airsoft transactions as if they are going to go bad. Save every email. Document every phone call. Take names of who I speak to. It's ridiculous, but more of my orders have been screwed up than filled correctly. I'm glad when things go well...and prepared when they don't.

Best of luck.


BTW your friend has a kick butt girlfriend.

I've been around the people who work at aa for over 6 years, and im impressed every time I end up in their store, or anytime I buy something from them.

they have a great work ethic, they recommend the best stuff, and they're awesome at helping you diagnose stuff.. the manager there offered to look at my TM G36c after upgrades (after a chrono issue, the chrono was at fault, not me), take it down, and reassemble it, even though they had closed down their tech department.

the guys who work there definitely know what they're doing (unlike airsplat, or other retailers of the sort).


I honestly have never seen them screw up an order, they certainly haven't with me.

I think great, reputable retailers get the boot because of isolated cases of dissatisfied customers ranting and making the issue larger than it needs to be.



KK21

I understand what you are saying, it is like newegg.com, people there give products bad ratings because the are DOA, even though newegg sends them a new one out of their pocket... But I do have to say you have to think of it like this, you claim "isolated cases", I have heard a lot of people near me complain about them and evike. You say they are good... just because you haven't had a bad experience, it doesn't mean they are good... I personally go through Airsoftgi because they are the most understanding people I have ever had to email for support... I messaged them, and they shipped me a new charger free of charge, and it arrived in 2 days. I then messaged them saying that my mag was leaking and I would need a new valve. They said no problem, and they threw it in with my next order. I do not claim Airsoftgi doesn't ever had bad experiences, but from what I have experienced and what the people I play with have, they are the least complained about in my area.

Well, this is an example of a bad situation. A bad situation didn't get handled properly by the retailer, which ultimately costs the consumer. There are many bad transactions in the world of internet retailing because of the lack of direct human to human interface multiplied by human error, and as such, internet transactions in general as with any kind of transaction must be dealt with with caution. Well, in this specific situation, everything was done on the consumer's part that could be done and it still cost them. Personally, I think that sucks and crap like this shouldn't happen. But it does. What people can take from this is to, like buzzkill said, to prepare for the worst and be inquisitive. Well that's my soap box of the night.