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> Silencers, Real Steel silencers illegal... Airsoft?
SergeantBiscuits
post Mar 4 2005, 12:30 AM
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Here is california I know that silencers on real firearms are absolutely illegal, but does the law also apply for real airsoft silencers? (not mock ones. those are just plastic and are legal... I think.) Someone clear this up, please!

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Guest_TriChrome_*
post Mar 4 2005, 09:40 AM
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I believe that technically anything that silences a shot is illegal (and my silencer on my AEG def. makes it quieter). But since these guns aren't real, you'll be fine. Plus "everybody is doing it".
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post Mar 4 2005, 10:26 AM
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QUOTE (TriChrome @ Mar 4 2005, 08:40 AM)
I believe that technically anything that silences a shot is illegal (and my silencer on my AEG def. makes it quieter). But since these guns aren't real, you'll be fine. Plus "everybody is doing it".
*


I know TomSplasky knows this one... but I think the law against silencers specifies a certain decibel level of suppression... but an airsoft gun does not make that much noise in the first place, so a silencer cannot suppress that much... IE, theyre not illegal.

BUT.. I may be absolutely wrong... lets see if Tom knows.
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TomSplasky
post Mar 4 2005, 11:07 AM
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The way a real gun suppression system works is that it takes the expelled gasses and gives them more room to expand. The gasses expand into the suppression unit and thus don't make as loud a sound.

Airsoft suppressors use foam to somewhat muffle the shot. They're perfectly legal and considered cosmetic suppressors.

Real gun suppressors are covered by te NFA of 1934.


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blastsidewinder
post Mar 4 2005, 11:32 PM
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do the suppressors for airsoft make a noticible difference? or does the majority of the sound come from the gearbox...


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SINN FEIN
post Mar 5 2005, 12:02 AM
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I had a P90 with a silencer, and it made all the difference.


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blastsidewinder
post Mar 5 2005, 01:27 AM
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QUOTE (SINN FEIN @ Mar 4 2005, 05:02 PM)
I had a P90 with a silencer, and it made all the difference.
*


hmm whaddaya say to a m16vn with a silencer, scope, bipod, m9 rubber bayonet, and perhaps a laser attached on the outer barrel? a-cool.gif


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Razor8
post Mar 5 2005, 03:14 AM
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not for me it didnt...plus it ended up distroying the foam inside...:/. I was also missing one of 4 of those foam pieces for the silencer...I wonder where it went seeing that I bought the p90 off someone rolleyes.gif ...doesnt matter though..it cuz I didnt get much difference with the silencer. it did dampen some of the sound but most of the sound made was from the gearbox itself.


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SergeantBiscuits
post Mar 5 2005, 09:24 PM
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Alright, thanks a bunch, mates. I'll go ahead and grab one for my G3 SAS.


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Guy_With_A_Gun
post Mar 13 2005, 12:08 PM
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I wouldn;t worry about buying a silencer, but while I was at Northwest Tactical I waws talking to one on of the guys there and he said that the police recently consficated a bunch of classic army and ics SD5's I really don't see why they would thio since the silencers dotn really do anything, but then again if someone saw a gun with a silencer on it then mabey hey migh think that it was a real gun being silenced,
but no wrooies ima go buy one someday.


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SergeantBiscuits
post Mar 14 2005, 11:19 PM
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QUOTE (Guy_With_A_Gun @ Mar 13 2005, 04:08 AM)
I wouldn;t worry about buying a silencer, but while  I was at Northwest Tactical I waws talking to one on of the guys there and he said that the police recently consficated a bunch of classic army and ics SD5's I really don't see why they would thio since the silencers dotn really do anything, but then again if someone saw a gun with a silencer on it then mabey hey migh think that it was a real gun being silenced,
but no wrooies ima go buy one someday.
*

Hmmm... Well, I most likely won't be using my gun for anything but official airsoft-battlefield skirmishes and target-plinking in the backyard, so It shouldn't be a problem.


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ardrummer292
post Mar 15 2005, 09:32 AM
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There are two different kinds of silencers:

1. Cosmetic - these silencers generally have trademarks. They don't have anything inside them (like foam); they are hollow metal cans. If you want to extend your inner barrel, you would probably buy one of these.

2. Functional - these silencers have trademarks on occasion, but it depends on what brand it is. They are filled with foam (TM/ICS) or compressed cotton (King Arms). These silencers reduce your gun's muzzle report by 60-80%. This helps with masking the sound source of your firing. For best results, Inertia black bbs or Stealth OD bbs (or in winter, white bbs) should be used to additionally mask the source of fire.
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MADxMAC
post Mar 29 2005, 04:50 PM
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My brother has a TM MK23 socom with silencer. THe silencer buffles his shot greatly. At a distance greater than 30-40 feet you cant hear it at all. AEGs ont he other hand give off alot of noise form the gearbox. The silencer will only really make an effect at longer ranges. There is a pop noise emmitted form the barrel of an AEG that is not silenced that can be heard at a distance. A silencer eliminates that noise. ( I have used my brothers silencer on my TM sig552). However, at closer distances, the gearbox gives you away easy.... thats where the quiet piston/cylinder heads come in handy :P


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Guest_Lacessit_*
post Mar 31 2005, 10:32 AM
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Anyone able to explain why my silencer was confiscated by customs if they're actually legal? (no trades) It was mailed from HK through UPS. Fortunately, it was replaced at no charge and made it the second time (it was sent USPS the second time).
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Omaga
post Mar 31 2005, 01:06 PM
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Thats easy, your packaged was unlucky enough to be checked by customs the first time around. When they looked at the (suppressor) they had no way of verifying that it was either an airsoft one or a real one. So they took it!

Ye and its a suppressor dawg gone it! It doesn't silence anything bleh.gif

Here is a formal explanation of how airsoft suppressors work http://www.airsofthawaii.org/ballistic/200504/tech.shtml... and they still got the title wrong!


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Guest_Lacessit_*
post Mar 31 2005, 02:37 PM
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QUOTE (Omaga @ Mar 31 2005, 01:06 PM)
Thats easy, your packaged was unlucky enough to be checked by customs the first time around. When they looked at the (suppressor) they had no way of verifying that it was either an airsoft one or a real one. So they took it!

Ye and its a suppressor dawg gone it! It doesn't silence anything  bleh.gif

Here is a formal explanation of how airsoft suppressors work http://www.airsofthawaii.org/ballistic/200504/tech.shtml... and they still got the title wrong!
*


Interesting.. so even though it was marked on the package as a "toy acessory" and it was filled with foam, they decided it may be real anyway.. ranting.gif

oh... and yeah.. I know the correct terminology is "suppressor".. I can only plead a brain-fart or regurgitation for my mistake in calling it a silencer. It just slipped out. bleh.gif
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Crew_Chief
post Mar 31 2005, 06:26 PM
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I've never seen any law that prohibits having a fake supressor on a firearm. There are lots of these on the market today, and I've never seen "does not ship to CA, NY" or any of the other common anti-gun states. If you can have a fake supressor on a real gun, of course you could have it on a Airsoft gun.

http://www.mfiap.com/airsoft/acce/silencer.htm


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Omaga
post Mar 31 2005, 06:58 PM
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Im not saying that that IS what happened, heck I don't have a clue. However, I do know that sometimes customs can really censored2.gif you over by breaking and stealing everything in your shipment.

I just suggested that they might have thought "Ohh, a real silencer in a toy package." and just taken it. Maybe the package just passed by one of the bad customs officers, thats all.

All in all, nope. Can't give you an explanation, customs officers are unpredictable.

This post has been edited by Omaga: Mar 31 2005, 07:03 PM


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Sturmgewehr
post Mar 31 2005, 10:22 PM
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QUOTE (Guy_With_A_Gun @ Mar 13 2005, 11:08 AM)
I wouldn;t worry about buying a silencer, but while  I was at Northwest Tactical I waws talking to one on of the guys there and he said that the police recently consficated a bunch of classic army and ics SD5's I really don't see why they would thio since the silencers dotn really do anything, but then again if someone saw a gun with a silencer on it then mabey hey migh think that it was a real gun being silenced,
but no wrooies ima go buy one someday.
*

Well they were probably being used in a manner unfitting for an airsoft gun- that is they were taken outside of the house and brandished in public or something like that- there had to be more to it than that.

Anyway, a question for Mr. Tomsplasky:

Does the law prohibit the production and import of such silencers/supressors (like the assault weapons ban) or does it prohibit the ownership and/or use of one?



Anyway, this is a commonly heard question:
QUOTE ( a_newbie_who_wants_an_answer_to_his/her_question)
How much of a difference does a silencer make


Well, here is the answer.

QUOTE ( sturmgewehr)
And the effect is noticeable, but not much. I have heard my aeg fired by another person from 10 feet away, and the noise really is mostly air pushed out the end of the barrel, even when standing right behind the gun.

If you are interested here is the math behind it all.

The formula for sound intensity is that sound intensity varies inversely as the square of the distance between the listener and the sound, so lets say your eardrum is 3 inches away from the gun, while it is at least 12 inches away from the end of the barrel (in the case of the beta spetz, maybe for an mp5K or g3sas there would not be as much of a difference), so the muzzle noise would have to be 16 times as loud as the motor to seem equally loud when compared to the motor. It is pretty much drowned out as you can imagine. However, my quadratic equations math is a little fuzzy so if you would like to challenge that go ahead; algebra is not my strong point; our teacher had to throw erasers at us to keep us from falling asleep.


So the fact is you get mostly gearbox noise, while, if you stand far away, you can tell that more of the noise is in fact the air in the barrel. Whenever I am shot at, I can much more easily here a "whoot! whoot!" noise than I hear the "vreeeee!" of the gearbox.

And like I also said, for gas guns they make all the difference.


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Frost
post Apr 2 2005, 10:43 AM
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I've read that anything that silences an airsoft gun more than 10 decibles, is illegal. If this is not true don't flame me. I just read it somewhere.


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Dread Pirate Rob...
post May 9 2005, 11:50 PM
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When I was at Airsoft Extreme the other day, they said that silencer cans are fine but the ones with foam are illegal in California.

My dad wouldn't let me get one that wasn't orange anyway.


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Since these seem to be so popular...

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jballou
post May 10 2005, 06:06 PM
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The ATF classifies a suppressor as a device which may be attatched to a weapon and will silence one shot one decibel. That's the 'by the book' definition. Common sense dictates however that if it's not designed to go on a real gun, and would likely explode if used on one (as most airsoft suppressors would), the ATF isn't gonna come knocking. They have other important stuff to attend to, like trying to justify their existence now that the asinine AWB is over and they can't crack down on everyone who has an evil-looking weapon.


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WTA_Delta
post May 11 2005, 12:29 PM
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Guess you got to take us all to jail...sad bleh.gif


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TomSplasky
post May 12 2005, 05:52 AM
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QUOTE (Sturmgewehr @ Mar 31 2005, 10:22 PM)
Anyway, a question for Mr. Tomsplasky:

Does the law prohibit the production and import of such silencers/supressors (like the assault weapons ban) or does it prohibit the ownership and/or use of one?
*



Sorry for not responding, I was on a leave of absense.

"The" law does, yes, not the "assault wepaons ban" though. The Import Ban of 1986 prohibits any NFA classified devices or weapons from being imported. There are a few SOT loopholes but other than that you can't get any in here. The NFA of 1934 however, restricts the ownership of sound suppression systems, machineguns, short bareled shotguns, and other stuff like that. It regulates the ownership of them, not bans. The truth of the matter is, no matter what anyone says, is that if you havn't commited a felony and pass the background check (Which lasts about 6 months) you can buy a machinegun. Considering it was imported and registered with the BATFE before 1986.


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Guest_Airsoft Paladin_*
post May 13 2005, 05:33 PM
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QUOTE (TriChrome @ Mar 4 2005, 02:40 PM)
I believe that technically anything that silences a shot is illegal
*


Then my Potato is illegal
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WTA_Delta
post May 17 2005, 10:43 AM
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http://www.mfiap.com/airsoft/acce/silencer.htm

All MFI Fake Silencers are DESIGNED FOR REAL WEAPONS, but will also fit replica & airsoft weapons with appropriate adapters. These do NOT suppress sound in any way and are 100% legal for the regular civilian to own in all 50 US States.

That means that:


You do NOT need to pay a $200.00 Tax Stamp!
You do NOT need any special licence!
You do NOT need any special FBI background check!
You do NOT have to wait 3-6 months for BATF transfer or approval!
As these are 100% LEGAL for anyone to own in the USA! Unlike all other airsoft silencers supplied / offered by unscrupulous & ignorant re sellers (which are 100% ILLEGAL to possess in the USA) ours will NOT land you in a Federal Penitentiary for 10+ years.

The above statement is a EXTREMELY IMPORTANT as MFI is a CLASS II & III manufacture and we fully understand the nuances of the BATF regulations in this area. The BATF has ruled against all foreign manufactured airsoft fake silencers as early as 1994. If they come apart readily or can be modified easily are 100% ILLEGAL. Any fake silencer ( for airsoft, toy or real weapons) having any void / cavity / open space on the inside where gas can accumulate it is 100% ILLEGAL in the USA. Any Airsoft Fake Silencer that has removable end caps is also 100% illegal to possess in the USA. Just possession of either an airsoft fake silencer tube or end cap (no matter the material of construction) is a felony which can land you in a Federal Penitentiary for up to 10 years.

A very serious issue as there are already a number of ex-airsoft importers / re sellers serving time on this very issue. BATF does not fool around with this issue and the new Homeland Security / Patriot Act gives greater latitude to Federal Prosecutors as it is considered FELONY POSSESSION of an UNREGISTERED Title II device. Unlike other illegal airsoft import issue in regards to DOC Approved markings or not being an approved BATF importer for airsoft, which the Treasury Department does not have the time or inclination to consider top priority... They DO and ARE actively looking for anyone trafficking in airsoft silencers.

As this is a very serious WEAPONS VIOLATION (same penalty as an unregistered live machine gun) any Law Enforcement Agent would be happy to catch those who break the law in this area mostly because it is a slam dunk in court for a Felony Weapons Charge. Made even easier as many stupid re sellers advertise illegal products on-line. How much simpler could it be for agents to see these on a web site (same way as you found them) then have the judge issue a search warrant for that company. They then seize the companies's records and past invoices. Then they have probable cause for search warrants for anyone's house / address where a illegal airsoft silencer was shipped to. You do NOT want to be caught in this especially after September 11th and the subsequent passing of the Patriot Act which allows greater lead way to Law Enforcement and the Courts to issue MAXIMUM jail time to those caught as these airsoft items are considered to on the watch list as TERRORIST IMPLEMENTS.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IT IS FOR THIS REASON THAT MFI GOES WAY OUT OF OUR WAY TO BE ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT ALL ITEMS THAT WE OFFER TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC ARE 100% SAFE AND LEGAL!
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Can anyone verify this?

This post has been edited by WTA_Delta: May 17 2005, 10:43 AM


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Kalashnikov
post May 18 2005, 04:49 PM
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That isn't the most reliable source for information. Plus I'm sure overseas retailers wouldn't ship silencers to the USA because of that. I'm also pretty sure that fake silencers made for real steel weapons are not illegal.


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securityboy
post Oct 25 2005, 03:26 PM
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Granted this deals with paintball, but same would hold true for airsoft. Straight from ATF's mouth:

http://www.atf.treas.gov/alcohol/info/revr...uling2005-4.pdf


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post Oct 31 2005, 10:00 PM
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ok well I made a huge post before ASF went down clarifying all this but ill summarize here for all of you. and if you doubt me, feel free to PM me and when I get a chance ill give you the lengthy story. iv egot firsthand experience on this subject and plenty of it




this is all from firsthand experience with the ATF nad dept of homeland security. feel free to argue it but this is what they told me:

a suppressor is qualified as anythin that suppresses a gunshot by 1 dB or more, as stated above. as such, anythin that exceeds this (no matter if it is reusable or not) and is designed to or can readily fit on a firearm is considered a controlled item. as such, they are technically illegal unless you ahve the proper class III goodies to go with it.


for example: King Arms 200 mm light weight suppressor suppresses a .22 LR round by 11 dB average in an ATF laboratory test. how do I know? they tested mine. this is in a repeatedly fired test. as such, my airsoft suppressor was seized and destroyed (along wiht my KJW USP since it had a threaded barrel)


I didnt get any trouble since they new it was intended for an airsoft gun but yes they can be illegal. if they can suppress the noise form a gunshot, then they break the law. am I saying you shouldnt have one? noooo. but you should be aware of the implications


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