So to clairfy, after all the R-hop is in place and what not you use a Flat modded bucking over the top of the R-hop?

Also, if anyone has done this to the A&K SVD, PM me please. I have a few questions.

If you posted pictures to highlight your points of concern they likely can be addressed here immediately.

Actually, this guys tutorial was spot on! and answered all my questions!

http://ratashaka.blogspot.com/2012/05/r-ho...ion-manual.html

Answered all of the questions I had except the one about the SVD but I'll cross that bridge when I get there

I'm glad you found one of the links in my manual helpful. Mahonen is extremely good at this sort of thing.

I've read in different tutorials to leave a small gap between the r-hop and the window but all the pictures of your perfect install have no evidence of a small gap.

Can you shed some light on this

He radiused the trailing edge on the ones where there is no gap. There are two ways to do it, with a gap or without a gap with a radiused trailing edge. The both help prevent pinch type jams.

Hehe! Was pretty hard to do, with the camera and everything :D

I guess it wasn't the best shooting right there. But bare in mind, the video was filmed in 240 frames per secound :P

Thanks!

LeStath

After installing my rhop, my bb's are curving to the right. They start to do this almost as soon as the leave the barrel, and surprising curve back around to be dead on at 100 feet. I was wondering if I might be getting a corner pinch. I ran out of day light today, and was just wanting to consult with the experts before I went to sanding. I also thought this thread needed some life. Thanks.

If its hooking AND inconsistent then its a pinch. Otherwise it could be an uneven R-hop, uneven material/mound removal from your bucking, or uneven nub pressure. If he hook is severe you'll definitely have to correct it with some sort of mechanical action. If its just a gentle drift you can just rotate your barrel slightly counterclockwise to bring the bb's spin axis to vertical.

The manual at the top of this thread is grossly outdated which is why its linked out. I still do answer questions here though.

I know this is probably answered here already, but scrolling through 10 pages of text would be unpleasant.

any tips for cutting the barrel to fit the ER-Hop? I plan on using a Angel Custom VSR-10 hop up chamber + TDC and a madbull 6.03 to get a ER-Hop going for my VSR-10.

I pretty much only have a dremel, some metal files, and sandpaper. any tips for cutting a ER-Hop with the tools at my disposal?

The best way to do it is with a mill, but since you don't have that, a dremel will sufice. That is how I did mine.

First, and most importantly, practice on a cheap, stock brass barrel. This way you can figure out your plan of attack, and practice without damaging the real deal. It would also give you the opportunity to show us your work, and we can further critique it from there to make your final version better.

I use a grinding wheel, soft stone like sanding wheel (from what I can tell, it still grinds, but gives more of a polished look, and doesn't take a lot of material off) polishing/buffer wheel, polish, and some small hand files/rat tail files. Just go very slow so as to not damage the inner bore of the barrel. Go slow so as to not cut too deep.

Ok I got a question I've read through a lot of pages and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to do it. But I read someone saying u can't use an existing bucking as the patch as its to thin. Well on the barrel I have in my gun I miced the thickness as well as a spare junk bucking. And it seems if I do two layers of my bucking it will be a very small fraction over my barrel thickness. So could I not glue to two pieces together with CA and sand it till its perfect? Since everything is hear I'd rather do my first one with free parts and if it works, then my next one I would buy the correct pieces.

Eh, there isn't really a "cheap" way out of a proper R-Hop installation. You might as well go Flat Hop if you don't want to spend $10 on three patches.

I know the patches are cheap. But my parts are free. So would it possibly work at all?

It should work.
You will never really know until you try.

Don't get caught up in the hype that you have to buy the patches from one source.
It's just rubber.
You can buy tubes of rubber from local hardware stores, plumbing stores, and even some hobby shops.
For a couple bucks, you can have a lifetime supply of Patch-Hop rubber buying form the above mentioned.

I am going to attempt the same bucking Patch-Hop mod you are asking about.
Will be a few weeks until I get to that.
Got other projects going on right now.

You certainly can try gluing the piece of bucking together. It could work, but it is just another iteration of the G-Hop (which the R-hop is a derivative of). The problem with the G-Hop was that it was fragile, and would get sucked into the barrel after some use, causing jams, so be very aware of that. I think the firmness of the R-hop as well as the concave shape (the G-hop was flat) really helps prevent that.

If this attempt of yours fails, you can do the flat hop with just your stock bucking. There is another thread all about the flat hop. You can find the link for it in the link in my signature.

If you're looking for info on the G-hop (what you're trying to do) info about that is here:
http://forums.airsoftmechanics.com/index.php?topic=3603.0
(yes I know it starts with info on the First Quasar product, which eventually morphed into the prometheus version of the Flat Hop I believe, but keep reading)

Ishioka has more info on his site, which you can find via my website, but as discussed the basically free bucking method has its drawbacks. It worked well enough for him though as, for years, he lead the 30m challenge.

*edit*
I concur with cardboard box that, given you're probably shooting more than 1J, you're probably better off with a flat hop because it'll last a bit longer albeit with slightly reduced performance.

This post has been edited by hunterseeker5: Dec 7 2012, 12:19 PM

Well I looked at the flat hop awhile back. But my best hopup I've ever used persay is the factory g&g green. With a metal assembly. So ANY different hopup is gonna surprise me by a lot just because I've never used anything excellent.

I tried doing it myself a couple times and never got it right, so I just ended up buying one of the barrels you made HS5.

a few questions:

1. I don't see any difference in range or accuracy between the R-hop and the ER-hop. Both are exceptionally accurate compared to stock hops, but I don't see any significant difference between the two. Is this expected? FYI, both are running the same FPS, and both are stock barrels of same lengths (455)

2. How much does the quality of the barrel matter, when considering range and accuracy? As far as I can see, the two R-hopped barrels (CYMA stock and a Madbull Python) are kinda similar in accuracy and range with the R-hop installed.

3. While the R-hop is significantly better than a regular hop (or any other hop for that matter), I'm not achieving the results some people "claim" to achieve. I've read one guy say that on a 500FPS setting he was able to achieve a 12inch grouping at 300ft with .40s or something.
On my settings - usually ~400FPS (chrono is done with .20) using .28 - I can get a man sized target at ~250 ft at like 70-80% rate. Is this an expected result, or should I seek for more?

4. the R-hop is awesome on semi, but not so in full auto. Is this the hop's fault, or the gun's fault?

5. on the following video, the guy tilts the gun and claims that he still gets the same accuracy as when he's firing "true." How is this possible?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5f_7aAUZXI (starts at 10:24 mark)

6. this one time I messed up and shaved the legs of the patch too much. Instead of starting anew, I've tried this thing where I inserted a paper cylinder inside the inner barrel where the window is, so that it sat flush with the outline of the inner barrel. This let the R-hop sit flush with the rest of the inner barrel despite having shorter legs, and I went on to glue the patch onto the bucking, making sure it was centered using double sided tape. (which was removed afterward)
The result? as good as a properly installed R-hop.
So my question is: Since in this case the R-hop was rather contoured like the SCS all throughout different amounts of hop applied, making full, EVEN contact with the BB (so that when you looked inside the barrel, it made an upside-down U-shape) as compared to regular R-hop (which kinda looks flat when you look inside with hop applied). I'm really not sure how I was able to get a very similar result, when this hop was installed with principals contrary to the r-hop concept (or is it...?)
So while the R-hop (this is my guess) is supposed to concave in from the rather flat surface to "hug" the BB as it passes (because while it is concaved at first, as you apply more hop, it becomes more flat), which makes the center portion compress more than the others and therefore more pressure there, this hop was evenly pressured throughout the concavity. Shouldn't I be getting a different result?

FYI: I don't use the original M-nubs from HS5 directly, but I make my own M-nubs from a sorbo pad. I install it as if I am installing the M-nub, filing down the hopup arm flat.

This post has been edited by Phil2: Jan 13 2013, 12:43 PM

1. The ER hop won't necessarily increase range. It is designed to more effectively lift heavier rounds. Using .28g you probably wont notice anything. The ER is more effective with rounds like .30, .36 and more.

3. 250ft with .28g and 400fps is pretty good. Not sure why you are complaining there.

1) Are they running the same .28s you cited too? You are aware the ER-hop is recommended for lifting high mass rounds. All that said without anything quantitative here is very difficult to say much else other than that accuracy is in many ways a "weakest link" sort of situation, so if you have something else there thats limiting your accuracy its no surprise you can't tell them apart.

2) Again weakest link phenomenon. It matters quite a bit, but only if the rest of your system is good enough to showcase it.

3) If you're using a stock CYMA barrel thats pretty good. If you were using a really nice barrel I'd certainly expect better but of course I specifically avoid making quantitative performance claims because your output accuracy is the culmination of everything from your R-hop to the polish on your cylinder head nozzle guide. Thats why I prefer it when users report their feedback. It means there is no smoke, no mirrors, and no motive for biased reporting. I can't speak to other people's performance, but I can certainly think of conditions where you could print a group like that. Many people don't realize that, when you reach for that level, your optics start really mattering too. That ACM 20$ optic just doesn't have whats needed to do it, you actually need to start getting into serious optics that cost serious money. The list of factors goes on. I'll say that in my personal rifles, and this should not be considered as a marketing tool because a lot goes into my guns not all of which is available to the public, I don't think twice about engaging targets out to 100 meters at 1.5J. There are a LOT of factors involved in a shot like that not the least of which is the fact that you actually need to be a good shot at that range. Your technique will be relevant. And I don't mean this to brag or anything like that, its just sort of a metric, I'll print a 10 round one hole grouping inside 100 meters no problem IF the rig (we're talking real steel now) is capable of it. When you start really reaching out there, you're fighting a lot more factors many of which I quite frankly lack experience with so I don't want to make true long range claims, but just be aware that there is a lot more to it than your R-hop. It doesn't make your BBs laser guided. ;)

4) Could be the gun, could be how you installed the R-hop. I run all my guns full auto no problem, but if your edges aren't radiused or your surface finish is low (or you're not using genuine R-hops, just something to consider I have experimented with materials which do have major problems in full auto) its very possibly the R-hop. Something else to consider is the material recovery rate of your sorbo nubs, remember they are fixed volume and can't deform without lateral expansion meaning they could be getting stuffed up next to your hop arm or something else and being sticky are failing to push back rapidly enough.

5) How would it not be possible? It wouldn't make sense for it not to work like that.

6) I can't speak to your install, but I will say that I've furthered the paper in-situ composite fix for a long time now as a solution for windows cut too deep. How does it work? It has about the same lubricity as the barrel, and even if it didn't it shouldn't actually contact the BB. Your gun's vertical will be determined by the R-hop's vertical. Why does it produce the same accuracy even though its not completely U shaped? Think about what happens when you push a BB past it. The mound won't push up as a rigid structure like a mounded hop, it'll shape to the BB (given the right nub) in a way that Krap101 has termed "passive concave." This bb was dyed and fed through such a system to demonstrate that there is an immense amount of concave contact.
(ignore the striations, they're an artifact)

thanks for the reply HS5 and airborne

I'm really not sure still, how #5 can be true.
airsoft hop pushes the BB upwards along the gun's orientation.
so if u turn the gun sideways, isn't it going to push the BB sideways?
then the upward lift that used to fight gravity isn't counteracting gravity anymore.
how is it the same?

Because the BB isn't experiencing or creating anti-gravity. Gravity has nothing at all to do with it. The only reason gravity is even relevant is because hop is designed to balance lift against gravity when outside the barrel. If you remove the gravity the bb will curve upward, or if you tilt your gun sideways it'll curve left or right. Or if you shoot straight up the bb will curve and land behind you. This isn't starwars, the R-hop is advanced but its not a landspeeder or something like that. :P