Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

airsoft forum and discussion board

to add your 468x60 banner, pay ad zone 1
Click Here for the Advanced ASF Search Tool
website template selector
Bookmark and Share

to place your ad here in Zone 3, click here
11 Pages V  « < 9 10 11  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> R-hop installation manual (Necro Exempt)
steen
post Jun 26 2012, 08:48 PM
Post #401


ASF Citizen


Group: Member
Posts: 163
Joined: 12-April 09
From: Fresno, Ca
Member No.: 47,667

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 0 (0%)
Add Feedback for steen


So to clairfy, after all the R-hop is in place and what not you use a Flat modded bucking over the top of the R-hop?

Also, if anyone has done this to the A&K SVD, PM me please. I have a few questions.


--------------------
Proud AK Owner. For the Love of Russia
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hunterseeker5
post Jun 26 2012, 10:21 PM
Post #402


ASF Citizen


Group: Member
Posts: 1,536
Joined: 24-June 10
Member No.: 57,940

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 2 (100%)
Add Feedback for hunterseeker5


If you posted pictures to highlight your points of concern they likely can be addressed here immediately.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
steen
post Jun 26 2012, 11:23 PM
Post #403


ASF Citizen


Group: Member
Posts: 163
Joined: 12-April 09
From: Fresno, Ca
Member No.: 47,667

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 0 (0%)
Add Feedback for steen


Actually, this guys tutorial was spot on! and answered all my questions!

http://ratashaka.blogspot.com/2012/05/r-ho...ion-manual.html

Answered all of the questions I had except the one about the SVD but I'll cross that bridge when I get there


--------------------
Proud AK Owner. For the Love of Russia
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hunterseeker5
post Jun 27 2012, 04:14 PM
Post #404


ASF Citizen


Group: Member
Posts: 1,536
Joined: 24-June 10
Member No.: 57,940

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 2 (100%)
Add Feedback for hunterseeker5


I'm glad you found one of the links in my manual helpful. Mahonen is extremely good at this sort of thing.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
steen
post Jul 16 2012, 02:45 AM
Post #405


ASF Citizen


Group: Member
Posts: 163
Joined: 12-April 09
From: Fresno, Ca
Member No.: 47,667

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 0 (0%)
Add Feedback for steen


I've read in different tutorials to leave a small gap between the r-hop and the window but all the pictures of your perfect install have no evidence of a small gap.

Can you shed some light on this


--------------------
Proud AK Owner. For the Love of Russia
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
airborne101
post Jul 16 2012, 10:49 AM
Post #406


If you have a problem, and no one else can help...


Group: Forum Administrator
Posts: 10,618
Joined: 5-May 08
From: Chicago, IL
Member No.: 39,247

My Temperament:Melancholy
Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 26 (100%)
Add Feedback for airborne101


He radiused the trailing edge on the ones where there is no gap. There are two ways to do it, with a gap or without a gap with a radiused trailing edge. The both help prevent pinch type jams.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LeStath
post Jul 16 2012, 03:35 PM
Post #407


ASF Citizen


Group: Member
Posts: 311
Joined: 22-March 09
From: Norway
Member No.: 47,256

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 0 (0%)
Add Feedback for LeStath


QUOTE (hunterseeker5 @ Jun 26 2012, 05:23 PM) *
Nice vid. I realize its a bit irrelevant, but I've never seen an actual person's rifle sway through a scope look so much like something out of a videogame before. ;) :P There is the sway, then the breath, then the steady..... :P

Anyway jokes aside kudos for trying to film this one. :D


Hehe! Was pretty hard to do, with the camera and everything :D

I guess it wasn't the best shooting right there. But bare in mind, the video was filmed in 240 frames per secound :P

Thanks!

LeStath


--------------------
*Asahi WA2000 DX
*M24A2 Tanaka. 200-300+ m/s HPA
*M4A1 Systema PTW max
*Barrett M82A1 VFC
*M870 Airsoft Surgeon/ Tanaka
*G36C CA(m120)
*Hi-Capa 5.1 Limited Edition
*M11A1
*Glock 17 Marui
*MP5 A3 Marui

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SoNorUs
post Sep 23 2012, 09:34 PM
Post #408


ASF Immigrant


Group: Member
Posts: 42
Joined: 31-January 11
Member No.: 63,667

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 2 (100%)
Add Feedback for SoNorUs


After installing my rhop, my bb's are curving to the right. They start to do this almost as soon as the leave the barrel, and surprising curve back around to be dead on at 100 feet. I was wondering if I might be getting a corner pinch. I ran out of day light today, and was just wanting to consult with the experts before I went to sanding. I also thought this thread needed some life. Thanks.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hunterseeker5
post Sep 24 2012, 01:32 PM
Post #409


ASF Citizen


Group: Member
Posts: 1,536
Joined: 24-June 10
Member No.: 57,940

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 2 (100%)
Add Feedback for hunterseeker5


QUOTE (SoNorUs @ Sep 23 2012, 10:34 PM) *
After installing my rhop, my bb's are curving to the right. They start to do this almost as soon as the leave the barrel, and surprising curve back around to be dead on at 100 feet. I was wondering if I might be getting a corner pinch. I ran out of day light today, and was just wanting to consult with the experts before I went to sanding. I also thought this thread needed some life. Thanks.



If its hooking AND inconsistent then its a pinch. Otherwise it could be an uneven R-hop, uneven material/mound removal from your bucking, or uneven nub pressure. If he hook is severe you'll definitely have to correct it with some sort of mechanical action. If its just a gentle drift you can just rotate your barrel slightly counterclockwise to bring the bb's spin axis to vertical.

The manual at the top of this thread is grossly outdated which is why its linked out. I still do answer questions here though.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sniperx2s
post Dec 6 2012, 10:01 PM
Post #410


ASF Citizen
Group Icon

Group: Authorized Seller Elite
Posts: 2,764
Joined: 3-February 10
From: Jericho, NY
Member No.: 54,762

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 6 (100%)
Add Feedback for sniperx2s


I know this is probably answered here already, but scrolling through 10 pages of text would be unpleasant.

any tips for cutting the barrel to fit the ER-Hop? I plan on using a Angel Custom VSR-10 hop up chamber + TDC and a madbull 6.03 to get a ER-Hop going for my VSR-10.

I pretty much only have a dremel, some metal files, and sandpaper. any tips for cutting a ER-Hop with the tools at my disposal?


--------------------

-RS SVD -ARES AW338 -ARES SR-25 -CM M4 -CA P90 -KJW Double Barrel

-G&P PTS MOE
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
airborne101
post Dec 6 2012, 10:54 PM
Post #411


If you have a problem, and no one else can help...


Group: Forum Administrator
Posts: 10,618
Joined: 5-May 08
From: Chicago, IL
Member No.: 39,247

My Temperament:Melancholy
Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 26 (100%)
Add Feedback for airborne101


The best way to do it is with a mill, but since you don't have that, a dremel will sufice. That is how I did mine.

First, and most importantly, practice on a cheap, stock brass barrel. This way you can figure out your plan of attack, and practice without damaging the real deal. It would also give you the opportunity to show us your work, and we can further critique it from there to make your final version better.

I use a grinding wheel, soft stone like sanding wheel (from what I can tell, it still grinds, but gives more of a polished look, and doesn't take a lot of material off) polishing/buffer wheel, polish, and some small hand files/rat tail files. Just go very slow so as to not damage the inner bore of the barrel. Go slow so as to not cut too deep.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Team N.U.K.E.
post Dec 6 2012, 11:11 PM
Post #412


ASF Citizen
Group Icon

Group: Authorized Seller Elite
Posts: 271
Joined: 7-October 12
From: TN
Member No.: 79,229

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 1 (100%)
Add Feedback for Team N.U.K.E.


Ok I got a question I've read through a lot of pages and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to do it. But I read someone saying u can't use an existing bucking as the patch as its to thin. Well on the barrel I have in my gun I miced the thickness as well as a spare junk bucking. And it seems if I do two layers of my bucking it will be a very small fraction over my barrel thickness. So could I not glue to two pieces together with CA and sand it till its perfect? Since everything is hear I'd rather do my first one with free parts and if it works, then my next one I would buy the correct pieces.


--------------------
Team N.U.K.E. Never. Underestimate. Killer. Effectiveness. Current members: 12. My arsenal:
Area g36cv DE, currently unknown on specs being as Zackox has the gearbox.
ASGi G4-A2 flaming hog. Specs not tested yet.
Soon to own KWA cqr mod 2 and build into high rof SSG
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cardboard Box
post Dec 7 2012, 12:05 AM
Post #413


air$oft


Group: Member
Posts: 1,339
Joined: 28-December 10
From: East Bay, Cal
Member No.: 62,634

My Temperament:Melancholy
Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 1 (100%)
Add Feedback for Cardboard Box


Eh, there isn't really a "cheap" way out of a proper R-Hop installation. You might as well go Flat Hop if you don't want to spend $10 on three patches.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Team N.U.K.E.
post Dec 7 2012, 12:15 AM
Post #414


ASF Citizen
Group Icon

Group: Authorized Seller Elite
Posts: 271
Joined: 7-October 12
From: TN
Member No.: 79,229

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 1 (100%)
Add Feedback for Team N.U.K.E.


I know the patches are cheap. But my parts are free. So would it possibly work at all?


--------------------
Team N.U.K.E. Never. Underestimate. Killer. Effectiveness. Current members: 12. My arsenal:
Area g36cv DE, currently unknown on specs being as Zackox has the gearbox.
ASGi G4-A2 flaming hog. Specs not tested yet.
Soon to own KWA cqr mod 2 and build into high rof SSG
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
vanevery
post Dec 7 2012, 01:10 AM
Post #415


ASF Citizen
Group Icon

Group: Authorized Seller Elite
Posts: 352
Joined: 17-September 11
Member No.: 70,427

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 4 (100%)
Add Feedback for vanevery


QUOTE (Team N.U.K.E. @ Dec 7 2012, 12:15 AM) *
I know the patches are cheap. But my parts are free. So would it possibly work at all?


It should work.
You will never really know until you try.

Don't get caught up in the hype that you have to buy the patches from one source.
It's just rubber.
You can buy tubes of rubber from local hardware stores, plumbing stores, and even some hobby shops.
For a couple bucks, you can have a lifetime supply of Patch-Hop rubber buying form the above mentioned.

I am going to attempt the same bucking Patch-Hop mod you are asking about.
Will be a few weeks until I get to that.
Got other projects going on right now.


--------------------
Chicks Dig the Long Shot
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
airborne101
post Dec 7 2012, 10:28 AM
Post #416


If you have a problem, and no one else can help...


Group: Forum Administrator
Posts: 10,618
Joined: 5-May 08
From: Chicago, IL
Member No.: 39,247

My Temperament:Melancholy
Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 26 (100%)
Add Feedback for airborne101


You certainly can try gluing the piece of bucking together. It could work, but it is just another iteration of the G-Hop (which the R-hop is a derivative of). The problem with the G-Hop was that it was fragile, and would get sucked into the barrel after some use, causing jams, so be very aware of that. I think the firmness of the R-hop as well as the concave shape (the G-hop was flat) really helps prevent that.

If this attempt of yours fails, you can do the flat hop with just your stock bucking. There is another thread all about the flat hop. You can find the link for it in the link in my signature.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hunterseeker5
post Dec 7 2012, 12:17 PM
Post #417


ASF Citizen


Group: Member
Posts: 1,536
Joined: 24-June 10
Member No.: 57,940

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 2 (100%)
Add Feedback for hunterseeker5


If you're looking for info on the G-hop (what you're trying to do) info about that is here:
http://forums.airsoftmechanics.com/index.php?topic=3603.0
(yes I know it starts with info on the First Quasar product, which eventually morphed into the prometheus version of the Flat Hop I believe, but keep reading)

Ishioka has more info on his site, which you can find via my website, but as discussed the basically free bucking method has its drawbacks. It worked well enough for him though as, for years, he lead the 30m challenge.

*edit*
I concur with cardboard box that, given you're probably shooting more than 1J, you're probably better off with a flat hop because it'll last a bit longer albeit with slightly reduced performance.

This post has been edited by hunterseeker5: Dec 7 2012, 12:19 PM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Team N.U.K.E.
post Dec 7 2012, 06:07 PM
Post #418


ASF Citizen
Group Icon

Group: Authorized Seller Elite
Posts: 271
Joined: 7-October 12
From: TN
Member No.: 79,229

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 1 (100%)
Add Feedback for Team N.U.K.E.


Well I looked at the flat hop awhile back. But my best hopup I've ever used persay is the factory g&g green. With a metal assembly. So ANY different hopup is gonna surprise me by a lot just because I've never used anything excellent.


--------------------
Team N.U.K.E. Never. Underestimate. Killer. Effectiveness. Current members: 12. My arsenal:
Area g36cv DE, currently unknown on specs being as Zackox has the gearbox.
ASGi G4-A2 flaming hog. Specs not tested yet.
Soon to own KWA cqr mod 2 and build into high rof SSG
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tunnel_Rat
post Dec 8 2012, 06:14 AM
Post #419


ASF Citizen


Group: Member
Posts: 176
Joined: 12-December 09
Member No.: 53,526

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 0 (0%)
Add Feedback for Tunnel_Rat


I tried doing it myself a couple times and never got it right, so I just ended up buying one of the barrels you made HS5. a-laugh.gif


--------------------
Arsenal: CA/Polarstar R-hop m16
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Phil2
post Jan 13 2013, 12:17 PM
Post #420


ASF Citizen


Group: Elite
Posts: 423
Joined: 25-October 09
From: Northern Virginia
Member No.: 52,580

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 3 (100%)
Add Feedback for Phil2


a few questions:

1. I don't see any difference in range or accuracy between the R-hop and the ER-hop. Both are exceptionally accurate compared to stock hops, but I don't see any significant difference between the two. Is this expected? FYI, both are running the same FPS, and both are stock barrels of same lengths (455)

2. How much does the quality of the barrel matter, when considering range and accuracy? As far as I can see, the two R-hopped barrels (CYMA stock and a Madbull Python) are kinda similar in accuracy and range with the R-hop installed.

3. While the R-hop is significantly better than a regular hop (or any other hop for that matter), I'm not achieving the results some people "claim" to achieve. I've read one guy say that on a 500FPS setting he was able to achieve a 12inch grouping at 300ft with .40s or something.
On my settings - usually ~400FPS (chrono is done with .20) using .28 - I can get a man sized target at ~250 ft at like 70-80% rate. Is this an expected result, or should I seek for more?

4. the R-hop is awesome on semi, but not so in full auto. Is this the hop's fault, or the gun's fault?

5. on the following video, the guy tilts the gun and claims that he still gets the same accuracy as when he's firing "true." How is this possible?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5f_7aAUZXI (starts at 10:24 mark)

6. this one time I messed up and shaved the legs of the patch too much. Instead of starting anew, I've tried this thing where I inserted a paper cylinder inside the inner barrel where the window is, so that it sat flush with the outline of the inner barrel. This let the R-hop sit flush with the rest of the inner barrel despite having shorter legs, and I went on to glue the patch onto the bucking, making sure it was centered using double sided tape. (which was removed afterward)
The result? as good as a properly installed R-hop.
So my question is: Since in this case the R-hop was rather contoured like the SCS all throughout different amounts of hop applied, making full, EVEN contact with the BB (so that when you looked inside the barrel, it made an upside-down U-shape) as compared to regular R-hop (which kinda looks flat when you look inside with hop applied). I'm really not sure how I was able to get a very similar result, when this hop was installed with principals contrary to the r-hop concept (or is it...?)
So while the R-hop (this is my guess) is supposed to concave in from the rather flat surface to "hug" the BB as it passes (because while it is concaved at first, as you apply more hop, it becomes more flat), which makes the center portion compress more than the others and therefore more pressure there, this hop was evenly pressured throughout the concavity. Shouldn't I be getting a different result?

FYI: I don't use the original M-nubs from HS5 directly, but I make my own M-nubs from a sorbo pad. I install it as if I am installing the M-nub, filing down the hopup arm flat.

This post has been edited by Phil2: Jan 13 2013, 12:43 PM


--------------------

ARRRRRRGH
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
airborne101
post Jan 13 2013, 07:12 PM
Post #421


If you have a problem, and no one else can help...


Group: Forum Administrator
Posts: 10,618
Joined: 5-May 08
From: Chicago, IL
Member No.: 39,247

My Temperament:Melancholy
Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 26 (100%)
Add Feedback for airborne101


1. The ER hop won't necessarily increase range. It is designed to more effectively lift heavier rounds. Using .28g you probably wont notice anything. The ER is more effective with rounds like .30, .36 and more.

3. 250ft with .28g and 400fps is pretty good. Not sure why you are complaining there.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hunterseeker5
post Jan 14 2013, 01:41 PM
Post #422


ASF Citizen


Group: Member
Posts: 1,536
Joined: 24-June 10
Member No.: 57,940

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 2 (100%)
Add Feedback for hunterseeker5


1) Are they running the same .28s you cited too? You are aware the ER-hop is recommended for lifting high mass rounds. All that said without anything quantitative here is very difficult to say much else other than that accuracy is in many ways a "weakest link" sort of situation, so if you have something else there thats limiting your accuracy its no surprise you can't tell them apart.

2) Again weakest link phenomenon. It matters quite a bit, but only if the rest of your system is good enough to showcase it.

3) If you're using a stock CYMA barrel thats pretty good. If you were using a really nice barrel I'd certainly expect better but of course I specifically avoid making quantitative performance claims because your output accuracy is the culmination of everything from your R-hop to the polish on your cylinder head nozzle guide. Thats why I prefer it when users report their feedback. It means there is no smoke, no mirrors, and no motive for biased reporting. I can't speak to other people's performance, but I can certainly think of conditions where you could print a group like that. Many people don't realize that, when you reach for that level, your optics start really mattering too. That ACM 20$ optic just doesn't have whats needed to do it, you actually need to start getting into serious optics that cost serious money. The list of factors goes on. I'll say that in my personal rifles, and this should not be considered as a marketing tool because a lot goes into my guns not all of which is available to the public, I don't think twice about engaging targets out to 100 meters at 1.5J. There are a LOT of factors involved in a shot like that not the least of which is the fact that you actually need to be a good shot at that range. Your technique will be relevant. And I don't mean this to brag or anything like that, its just sort of a metric, I'll print a 10 round one hole grouping inside 100 meters no problem IF the rig (we're talking real steel now) is capable of it. When you start really reaching out there, you're fighting a lot more factors many of which I quite frankly lack experience with so I don't want to make true long range claims, but just be aware that there is a lot more to it than your R-hop. It doesn't make your BBs laser guided. ;)

4) Could be the gun, could be how you installed the R-hop. I run all my guns full auto no problem, but if your edges aren't radiused or your surface finish is low (or you're not using genuine R-hops, just something to consider I have experimented with materials which do have major problems in full auto) its very possibly the R-hop. Something else to consider is the material recovery rate of your sorbo nubs, remember they are fixed volume and can't deform without lateral expansion meaning they could be getting stuffed up next to your hop arm or something else and being sticky are failing to push back rapidly enough.

5) How would it not be possible? It wouldn't make sense for it not to work like that.

6) I can't speak to your install, but I will say that I've furthered the paper in-situ composite fix for a long time now as a solution for windows cut too deep. How does it work? It has about the same lubricity as the barrel, and even if it didn't it shouldn't actually contact the BB. Your gun's vertical will be determined by the R-hop's vertical. Why does it produce the same accuracy even though its not completely U shaped? Think about what happens when you push a BB past it. The mound won't push up as a rigid structure like a mounded hop, it'll shape to the BB (given the right nub) in a way that Krap101 has termed "passive concave." This bb was dyed and fed through such a system to demonstrate that there is an immense amount of concave contact.
(ignore the striations, they're an artifact)


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Phil2
post Jan 14 2013, 11:56 PM
Post #423


ASF Citizen


Group: Elite
Posts: 423
Joined: 25-October 09
From: Northern Virginia
Member No.: 52,580

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 3 (100%)
Add Feedback for Phil2


thanks for the reply HS5 and airborne

I'm really not sure still, how #5 can be true.
airsoft hop pushes the BB upwards along the gun's orientation.
so if u turn the gun sideways, isn't it going to push the BB sideways?
then the upward lift that used to fight gravity isn't counteracting gravity anymore.
how is it the same?


--------------------

ARRRRRRGH
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hunterseeker5
post Jan 15 2013, 12:42 PM
Post #424


ASF Citizen


Group: Member
Posts: 1,536
Joined: 24-June 10
Member No.: 57,940

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 2 (100%)
Add Feedback for hunterseeker5


QUOTE (Phil2 @ Jan 14 2013, 11:56 PM) *
thanks for the reply HS5 and airborne

I'm really not sure still, how #5 can be true.
airsoft hop pushes the BB upwards along the gun's orientation.
so if u turn the gun sideways, isn't it going to push the BB sideways?
then the upward lift that used to fight gravity isn't counteracting gravity anymore.
how is it the same?



Because the BB isn't experiencing or creating anti-gravity. Gravity has nothing at all to do with it. The only reason gravity is even relevant is because hop is designed to balance lift against gravity when outside the barrel. If you remove the gravity the bb will curve upward, or if you tilt your gun sideways it'll curve left or right. Or if you shoot straight up the bb will curve and land behind you. This isn't starwars, the R-hop is advanced but its not a landspeeder or something like that. :P


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Guges Mk3
post Jul 20 2013, 04:40 PM
Post #425


ASF Addict
Group Icon

Group: Authorized Seller Elite
Posts: 5,246
Joined: 19-January 07
From: Minnesota
Member No.: 27,171

My Temperament:Sanguine
Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 52 (100%)
Add Feedback for Guges Mk3


R-Hop and Big Bore Barrels - Good to Great Results. Hitting ~2" groupings at ~57 yards in a near windless conditions, no drop and that is as far as I can shoot out the basement patio.

I was shooting the Black Eye Susans in my neighbors part of the yard a-jester.gif



I was hitting the Carpel and petals around the carpels pretty consistently. Diameter of the Carpel is about 1.75" with the flower being about 4.5" in diameter.

With WE "pink" .28g: TK barrel 354fps, Miracle Barrel 362fps.

Miracle flat hop patch was off due to a consistent upward-right hook. When I look down the barrel I can see the patch is not sitting right.

So, R-Hop does work well with big bore barrels - confirmed.


--------------------
I rather use a "nightmare" that shoots like a dream over something that looks like a "dream" but shoots like a nightmare.

Don't fear the gun...fear the one that's wielding it!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hunterseeker5
post Jul 20 2013, 09:38 PM
Post #426


ASF Citizen


Group: Member
Posts: 1,536
Joined: 24-June 10
Member No.: 57,940

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 2 (100%)
Add Feedback for hunterseeker5


QUOTE (Guges Mk3 @ Jul 20 2013, 05:40 PM) *
R-Hop and Big Bore Barrels - Good to Great Results. Hitting ~2" groupings at ~57 yards in a near windless conditions, no drop and that is as far as I can shoot out the basement patio.

I was shooting the Black Eye Susans in my neighbors part of the yard a-jester.gif



I was hitting the Carpel and petals around the carpels pretty consistently. Diameter of the Carpel is about 1.75" with the flower being about 4.5" in diameter.

With WE "pink" .28g: TK barrel 354fps, Miracle Barrel 362fps.

Miracle flat hop patch was off due to a consistent upward-right hook. When I look down the barrel I can see the patch is not sitting right.

So, R-Hop does work well with big bore barrels - confirmed.



I wasn't aware that the miracle barrel had a larger diameter bore? To that point, I wasn't aware that the TK twist did either. Actually most of the reports back on the Miracle barrel were pretty underwhelming. Tactical Airsoft Supply found their order of them so underwhelming they sold them off for .99 cent starting bid no reserve. :P Thanks for the update though. :P

As an aside, the barrel that most of us think of when we think "large diameter bore" or "big bore" if you will are the TK Twists, and while the front of the window makes the install a bit more fickle, we know that R-hops shoot quite well out of those. (corrosion excluded of course)

As an amusing anecdote, when I read the first little bit of your post, when you said "big bore" I thought you had meant those steel-tubing or ceramic-tubing based barrels in (allegedly) ~6.2mm diameter bore the full length of the barrel. That project has cropped up independently a number of places, I believe most recently with Zardichar, but I've not seen it making any headway. And here I was all interested in thinking it had. :( Oh well. :D

This post has been edited by hunterseeker5: Jul 20 2013, 09:40 PM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Guges Mk3
post Jul 20 2013, 10:07 PM
Post #427


ASF Addict
Group Icon

Group: Authorized Seller Elite
Posts: 5,246
Joined: 19-January 07
From: Minnesota
Member No.: 27,171

My Temperament:Sanguine
Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 52 (100%)
Add Feedback for Guges Mk3


Miracle is 6.06mm and that is not a consistent diameter. Technically it's not "Big Bore". It is big bore as far as the kiddies are concerned, with the, "I gotta have a 6.01mm TBB for meh gun" syndrome.

.99 cents? Heck...they are worth 15 times that as a standard barrel...they are straight, finished well on the outside and the o-ring on them really helps them seat in a hop-up well. Far better than the APS/Lancer/Cybergun barrels in stainless and their wobbly internal and wobbly external finishing. Only draw back is someone pulled the tool out to fast and caused internal oscillations in the finish.


--------------------
I rather use a "nightmare" that shoots like a dream over something that looks like a "dream" but shoots like a nightmare.

Don't fear the gun...fear the one that's wielding it!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tux
post Jul 21 2013, 12:09 AM
Post #428


Resident Sniper


Group: Moderator
Posts: 3,430
Joined: 16-June 07
From: Georgia
Member No.: 30,973

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 2 (66.7%)
Add Feedback for Tux


For what it's worth, I had my stock G&G EBR barrel cut for the ER-Hop by airborne101. He also installed an R-Hop patch for me. When I got it back I was very overwhelmed by the overhop. With .43g BBs, the trajectory went 60' out and then shot straight up another 60'. After some tinkering with some precision file sets (wet sanding essentially) I got the patch material modified enough for an acceptable barrel window protrusion.

Next phase of testing seemed to be "ok" with the amount of hop but my accuracy was all over the place. I immediately knew what this meant. Movement. So next task went to coming up with a plan to stabilize the whole hop-up + system. Ultimately what I ended up with was the following:

G&G Stock Hop-up chamber
2x Raptors Airsoft RTX Flat Hop-up Nubs: http://tinyurl.com/m3v9lce

G&G Hop-up Bucking
G&G Inner Barrel

The hop-up bucking had the inner mound ground down (thanks airborne!) I ordered two of the Raptors Airsoft nubs, glued them together and reduced the total length of the combined nubs to 2/3 the length. This yielded a length that fit perfectly in my hop-up chamber but also utilized the most of the ER-Hop cut as possible. I also added a tiny tensioning spring to sit between the hop-up arm and the chamber. This allowed me to adjust the hop while keeping steady and consistent tension on the arm. Before, the arm would just sit freely and bounce around as BBs passed through the chamber. I also ended up teflon taping the R-Hop patch to the barrel which improved shot FPS consistency. Final config went as this: Barrel + R-hop patch + teflon tape + hop-up bucking. Great airseal.

I managed to fire off a half mag before it got too dark. Shots were almost 100% better. I could kit out to a cantelope sized target at 235' using my Goldenball .30s. After that the BBs started to drop and I didn't have too much time to test further. Needless to say I am highly impressed.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hunterseeker5
post Jul 21 2013, 08:51 AM
Post #429


ASF Citizen


Group: Member
Posts: 1,536
Joined: 24-June 10
Member No.: 57,940

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 2 (100%)
Add Feedback for hunterseeker5


QUOTE (Guges Mk3 @ Jul 20 2013, 11:07 PM) *
Miracle is 6.06mm and that is not a consistent diameter. Technically it's not "Big Bore". It is big bore as far as the kiddies are concerned, with the, "I gotta have a 6.01mm TBB for meh gun" syndrome.

.99 cents? Heck...they are worth 15 times that as a standard barrel...they are straight, finished well on the outside and the o-ring on them really helps them seat in a hop-up well. Far better than the APS/Lancer/Cybergun barrels in stainless and their wobbly internal and wobbly external finishing. Only draw back is someone pulled the tool out to fast and caused internal oscillations in the finish.



I actually can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. I thought you were being serious until I got to the part where you say that they are "finished well on the outside." If you're being earnest, it is possible they've improved them after they noticed nobody liked them. The thread on AM about it is here:
http://forums.airsoftmechanics.com/index.php?topic=10083.0

Although you know how I already feel about brass barrels. :P Though even some cheapie stock brass barrels can be decent after a good lapping, I just wouldn't pay extra for one. ;)

<AT>Tux
I'm a little bit curious how/why you went the two nub route. If anything its just morbid fascination. :P The more typical route you can find info on here:
http://forums.airsoftmechanics.com/index.php?topic=5869.0
This image specifically:


Glad to hear you're liking it though mate. If its working for you, god forbid I tell you to change it and it cocks something up. :P


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tux
post Jul 21 2013, 01:22 PM
Post #430


Resident Sniper


Group: Moderator
Posts: 3,430
Joined: 16-June 07
From: Georgia
Member No.: 30,973

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 2 (66.7%)
Add Feedback for Tux


Well, there's a few reasons for that. Firstly, I didn't want to modify my hop-up system in any way that changed it from the original type of hop-up. Second, the G&G M14 hop-up chamber is completely different from the M4. There's basically a cut in the top of the chamber that allows the arm + nub to protrude into the barrel area. This protrusion does not allow the arm to directly come into contact with the barrel/r-hop patch though. So that left me with either modifying the arm and fabricating my own resin design or just coming up with a solution that fit directly into the cut out area and applied appropriate "flat" hop. This is where the flat nubs came into play.

I may post some pictures later if I get the balls to disassemble the chamber again.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hunterseeker5
post Jul 21 2013, 04:47 PM
Post #431


ASF Citizen


Group: Member
Posts: 1,536
Joined: 24-June 10
Member No.: 57,940

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 2 (100%)
Add Feedback for hunterseeker5


Lawlz, you got me. the EBR part escaped me, and when I read "stock G&G chamber" I assumed it was one of the stock AR chambers. :P Not that the whole world necessarily uses AR variants. I am curious though as to how a "segmented" nub works better. Pictures would be appreciated, as I am having a bit of difficulty envisioning what you did. (I might just be suffering from a moment of intense mental flatulence))


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tux
post Jul 21 2013, 07:56 PM
Post #432


Resident Sniper


Group: Moderator
Posts: 3,430
Joined: 16-June 07
From: Georgia
Member No.: 30,973

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 2 (66.7%)
Add Feedback for Tux


Looking back, I can definitely see how you go down that thought train. I took it upon myself to disassemble one last time for the pics:
http://jcm.me/asf/IMG_20130721_202613.jpg
http://jcm.me/asf/IMG_20130721_202525.jpg
http://jcm.me/asf/IMG_20130721_202629.jpg


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hunterseeker5
post Jul 22 2013, 09:34 AM
Post #433


ASF Citizen


Group: Member
Posts: 1,536
Joined: 24-June 10
Member No.: 57,940

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 2 (100%)
Add Feedback for hunterseeker5


Ah I see..... very interesting approach.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Guges Mk3
post Jul 22 2013, 09:42 AM
Post #434


ASF Addict
Group Icon

Group: Authorized Seller Elite
Posts: 5,246
Joined: 19-January 07
From: Minnesota
Member No.: 27,171

My Temperament:Sanguine
Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 52 (100%)
Add Feedback for Guges Mk3


QUOTE (hunterseeker5 @ Jul 21 2013, 08:51 AM) *
I actually can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. I thought you were being serious until I got to the part where you say that they are "finished well on the outside." If you're being earnest, it is possible they've improved them after they noticed nobody liked them. The thread on AM about it is here:
http://forums.airsoftmechanics.com/index.php?topic=10083.0

Although you know how I already feel about brass barrels. :P Though even some cheapie stock brass barrels can be decent after a good lapping, I just wouldn't pay extra for one. ;)


The ones I have are honestly of decent finishing...you know me...I would not say poop is "amazing" if it wasn't.

The ones I have are fresh off the mill, 7 weeks old.

I should get some picts up of the exterior. Interior is sub-standard in my opinion...


--------------------
I rather use a "nightmare" that shoots like a dream over something that looks like a "dream" but shoots like a nightmare.

Don't fear the gun...fear the one that's wielding it!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Danoontje
post Apr 20 2014, 05:26 PM
Post #435


ASF Immigrant


Group: Member
Posts: 28
Joined: 22-February 14
Member No.: 87,071

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 0 (0%)
Add Feedback for Danoontje


I tried finding it, but maybe I missed it (sorry for that).

Why glueing the R-hup to the barrel and not straight to the bucking as sometimes done with ER hop?

Or is it okay to glue the Rhop to the bucking?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
airborne101
post Apr 20 2014, 06:07 PM
Post #436


If you have a problem, and no one else can help...


Group: Forum Administrator
Posts: 10,618
Joined: 5-May 08
From: Chicago, IL
Member No.: 39,247

My Temperament:Melancholy
Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 26 (100%)
Add Feedback for airborne101


Generally gluing the R-hop or ER-hop to the bucking is for added stability for the R-hop. It gives it a little extra support. You can glue the R-hop, but generally I have found that it is not needed.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Danoontje
post Apr 21 2014, 04:27 AM
Post #437


ASF Immigrant


Group: Member
Posts: 28
Joined: 22-February 14
Member No.: 87,071

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 0 (0%)
Add Feedback for Danoontje


Thank you for the reply.

So there is a 3rd option: not glueing..

1) glue to barrel
2) glue to bucking
3) no glue

glue to barrel is just because it can be undone without destroying you bucking?
No glue feels a bit risky to me
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TorchOF
post May 5 2014, 02:26 PM
Post #438


ASF Immigrant


Group: Member
Posts: 39
Joined: 6-June 12
Member No.: 76,645

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 0 (0%)
Add Feedback for TorchOF


Rather rambling post, but here we go.

My goal was to shoot around 300ft and I wasn't sure if this was do-able. I have a G&P with perfect compression, madbull V2 barrel, and a madbull m120 spring (haven't chrono'd yet, but the spring should be pretty consistent) I locked down every possible thing and made it impossible for any sort of air leak. (Polished any metal piece that air could or does pass through... O-rings in front of the hopup unit to push back on the gearbox... two more inner rings inside the hopup unit... dental floss mod on my like new Systema bucking.. teflon tape around the barrel...) Basically... all the possible DIY mods I could do. I did all of this and I'd say I'm shooting around 225ft when I do a slight overhop with .28g elite force BBs. Am I doing something wrong? Should I shoot heavier BBs? Is it even possible to get 300ft with this setup? If not what can I do to push performance?

Second paragraph... I have installed IR-hops in all sorts of barrels in all sorts of conditions over time and for some odd reason all of them tend to land me around 200ft with 1J in a stock combat machine and .28g airsplat BBs depending on the quality of barrel. (I know.. I'm just using them up lol) For some odd reason I "ALWAYS" get around a 2ft grouping at that range no matter what the barrel is and if I switch to elite force .28g bbs the grouping goes to maybe 1.75 ft. This is obviously better than a stock setup, but is there something I'm missing? I've tried beveling the patch on both sides and individually and don't notice any difference. I've tried extending the crown on a barrel and taking off the crown completely and can't notice a difference. I feel like I"m missing something to these installs and haven't found a solution yet and would love any input as to what I could do to make it better. (I also have tried every imaginable nub)

P.s. my installs have the original finish on the inside. I "fit" the patch to the outside not the inside, since I thought it would be more consistent that way.


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
airborne101
post May 5 2014, 03:01 PM
Post #439


If you have a problem, and no one else can help...


Group: Forum Administrator
Posts: 10,618
Joined: 5-May 08
From: Chicago, IL
Member No.: 39,247

My Temperament:Melancholy
Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 26 (100%)
Add Feedback for airborne101


225ft with .28g and M120 spring isn't too bad. It certainly doesn't point to anything horrendously wrong with your setup. If you want to hit 300ft though, you need to use heavier bbs. I still think you would be hard pressed to hit 300ft in a 1.5j setup, but heavier rounds would definitely help you.

Have you tried stabilizing the barrel? Perhaps a barrel lock down kit? 1.75ft is 30.4cm at 200ft or 6096cm. If you assume that there is a linear spread all the way to the target (may or not be a fully correct assumption, but it simplifies the math) that means at 30m (3000cm) you would be shooting a grouping of 14.9cm. That isn't terrible, and the best good shooters at Japans 30m challenge shoot 10cm groupings at that range. I assume you are shooting outside, so some of that deviation can be due to wind/air flow. Obviously you saw an improvment going from Airsplat .28g to Elite Force .28g, so perhaps try heavier bbs (.30g and .32g) as well as higher quality bbs such as Bioval, BioShot, and BBBastard.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TorchOF
post May 5 2014, 03:21 PM
Post #440


ASF Immigrant


Group: Member
Posts: 39
Joined: 6-June 12
Member No.: 76,645

Your Temperament Score? Trader Rating: 0 (0%)
Add Feedback for TorchOF


QUOTE (airborne101 @ May 5 2014, 04:01 PM) *
225ft with .28g and M120 spring isn't too bad. It certainly doesn't point to anything horrendously wrong with your setup. If you want to hit 300ft though, you need to use heavier bbs. I still think you would be hard pressed to hit 300ft in a 1.5j setup, but heavier rounds would definitely help you.

Have you tried stabilizing the barrel? Perhaps a barrel lock down kit? 1.75ft is 30.4cm at 200ft or 6096cm. If you assume that there is a linear spread all the way to the target (may or not be a fully correct assumption, but it simplifies the math) that means at 30m (3000cm) you would be shooting a grouping of 14.9cm. That isn't terrible, and the best good shooters at Japans 30m challenge shoot 10cm groupings at that range. I assume you are shooting outside, so some of that deviation can be due to wind/air flow. Obviously you saw an improvment going from Airsplat .28g to Elite Force .28g, so perhaps try heavier bbs (.30g and .32g) as well as higher quality bbs such as Bioval, BioShot, and BBBastard.


Yeah, I shoot only Bios (Go environment! a-cheesy.gif) So, I think I'll buy .30g Biovals next time I buy some and hopefully that will reduce the grouping. I'm not looking for amazing accuracy, but I would just like that 200ft range to be useful. And I used the teflon tape mod around the barrel along with 5 things to reduce barrel wobble. At the hopup unit and at the muzzle I can't move the barrel at all, so I don't think it's that.

Overall, I definitely find it to be an improvement over a stock setup, but I had one customer before say that his flat-hop mod was more accurate and got the same range as the R-hop. He was a tad shady.. and never would return the barrel for a refund, but I was concerned if I was doing something wrong, because I doubted the Flat-hop would be superior...

EDIT: I think I might try out a prommy to compare. Maybe the madbull since it's aluminum is vibrating more than a steel barrel would?

This post has been edited by TorchOF: May 5 2014, 03:23 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

to add your banner to our network, click here
11 Pages V  « < 9 10 11
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th July 2014 - 09:34 PM

Armory Tech Airsoft FoxAirsoft.com AirsoftAtlanta.com AirsoftNMore.com Airsplat.com ACMGear.com
AsiaAirsoft.com YZH.hkm TrinityAirsoft.com AirsoftRC.com eHobby Asia Vote for us
to add your 180x30 banner here, pay ad zone 2

If you enjoy using this website, please please support us financially with a small donation or upgrade your account. If you can not help us financially,
then at least help us by telling a friend about us and share us on your favorite social networking website.

content copyright AirsoftForum.com 2003-2013 an Airsoft Forum, Airsoft Chat Room, Airsoft Auctions, Airsoft Reviews, and Airsoft Classified Ads Community
Get your discount from Armory Tech Airsoft
Get airsoft guns and more with award winning customer service at Trinity Airsoft
Airsoft Atlanta is your source for quality airsoft guns and rifle parts
Professional Airsoft Solutions
to add your Text Link here, pay ad zone 3