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Bullfrog
I was shopping for a tight bore inner barrel at the WGC site and ran across this interesting product. The Tanio-Koba Hop Twist Barrel has what appears to be a rifled barrel that is suppose to spin the bb for more accuracy. Has anyone tried this barrel and if so what was the outcome.
JaysonR
QUOTE (Bullfrog @ Nov 14 2006, 07:37 AM) *
I was shopping for a tight bore inner barrel at the WGC site and ran across this interesting product. The Tanio-Koba Hop Twist Barrel has what appears to be a rifled barrel that is suppose to spin the bb for more accuracy. Has anyone tried this barrel and if so what was the outcome.


I can testify that this is probably the best barrel you can buy. I have this on my mp5k and with regular upgrades, I can hit a man sized target about 200 ft away with .25g bbs with proper hop-up setting of course. This barrel is amazing and not to mention it hurts like a mofo, so I've been told. Everyone I've shot has told me that it hurts, ALOT. Even with bdus on with undershirts.

FPS doesn't improve that much, which is weird since it carries so much more momentum because of the reduced friction. So I can't really explain why it hurts so much more seeing as I have never been shot by it, lol. Remember, TK is the originator of airsoft.
callme.nasty
QUOTE (JaysonR @ Nov 14 2006, 02:59 PM) *
I can testify that this is probably the best barrel you can buy. I have this on my mp5k and with regular upgrades, I can hit a man sized target about 200 ft away with .25g bbs with proper hop-up setting of course. This barrel is amazing and not to mention it hurts like a mofo, so I've been told. Everyone I've shot has told me that it hurts, ALOT. Even with bdus on with undershirts.

FPS doesn't improve that much, which is weird since it carries so much more momentum because of the reduced friction. So I can't really explain why it hurts so much more seeing as I have never been shot by it, lol. Remember, TK is the originator of airsoft.


what fps are you shooting at?
dwong
I've read that these barrels work best with guns around 328 fps.
callme.nasty
QUOTE (dwong @ Nov 14 2006, 06:00 PM) *
I've read that these barrels work best with guns around 328 fps.


perfect! I've got a pdi 120 in my gun. actually, so I don't take this topic over, if someone could go check out my topic called Low Powered sniper rifle in the AEG section...
and hoever started this topic, I'll be getting one for christmas and can give you a review... if you feel like waiting that long a-crazy.gif

oh and by the way, the barrel's do not actually spin the bb, rather than create a spinning cushion of air around the bb. since the bb does not actually come in contact with the barrel, it is supposedly much more accurate and gets much more range.
Mad_tomato
Anyone know if these things are still effective if you shoot at a very high rps? Im talking probably 35rps. And also, would a pdi 140 work ok with the twist? or is that too high fps?
notAnotC
I think the 140 is to high. you are not supposed to use the barrel if you shoot over 1 joule (328 fps or like that) simply because the BB would enter and exit the barrel too quick before the air cushion would even take effect. the RPS or ROF shouldnt matter, I don't think. as long as its still 1 joule or under.
callme.nasty
QUOTE (notAnotC @ Nov 14 2006, 09:10 PM) *
I think the 140 is to high. you are not supposed to use the barrel if you shoot over 1 joule (328 fps or like that) simply because the BB would enter and exit the barrel too quick before the air cushion would even take effect. the RPS or ROF shouldnt matter, I don't think. as long as its still 1 joule or under.


I agree. I would like some clarification on how well this thing works on full auto. for some reason I'm thinking that many bb's passing through at that speed could stir up the air and mess up the gyro effect. I would think not though...
El Ornitorrinco
*sighs*

No reasearch? None? At all?

The barrel has reverse rifling, which means that instead of the projectile being spun, the air around the projectile is spun. This creates an air cushion, meaning less friction and bouncing and higher accuracy.
Bullfrog
QUOTE (El Ornitorrinco @ Nov 14 2006, 11:42 PM) *
*sighs*

No reasearch? None? At all?

The barrel has reverse rifling, which means that instead of the projectile being spun, the air around the projectile is spun. This creates an air cushion, meaning less friction and bouncing and higher accuracy.


Well, actually I did do a couple of searches for info before I posted my question. Unfortunately I don't speak Japanese. a-crazy.gif Plus, as my son says, my computer hacking skills are t-suck. At any rate I appreciate the info in your reply and was wondering if you would mind divulging your info source. Thanks
Mad_tomato
QUOTE (El Ornitorrinco @ Nov 14 2006, 10:42 PM) *
*sighs*

No reasearch? None? At all?

The barrel has reverse rifling, which means that instead of the projectile being spun, the air around the projectile is spun. This creates an air cushion, meaning less friction and bouncing and higher accuracy.

OK, but callmenasty has already established that so... Would the air thigy mess up at 30rps?
callme.nasty
QUOTE (Bullfrog @ Nov 15 2006, 10:36 AM) *
Well, actually I did do a couple of searches for info before I posted my question. Unfortunately I don't speak Japanese. a-crazy.gif Plus, as my son says, my computer hacking skills are t-suck. At any rate I appreciate the info in your reply and was wondering if you would mind divulging your info source. Thanks


*sighs*

I've already stated that.
The Solution
So is this barrel better than a prometheus tightbore barrel? And to clarify does it have to be over 328 fps to work or under 328 fps?
callme.nasty
QUOTE (The Solution @ Nov 15 2006, 06:30 PM) *
So is this barrel better than a prometheus tightbore barrel? And to clarify does it have to be over 328 fps to work or under 328 fps?

it should be more accurate than a promethius, and have much more range. the gun has to be 1 joule and under, or about 328 and under
eodcole
Just to clarify even more if I took a gun with .3g bbs and stuck this barrel in it but had it shooting around 330fps then it'd work just fine right? I know that won't be 1 joule but you can see what I'm getting at.
Bullfrog
QUOTE (callme.nasty @ Nov 14 2006, 07:21 PM) *
perfect! I've got a pdi 120 in my gun. actually, so I don't take this topic over, if someone could go check out my topic called Low Powered sniper rifle in the AEG section...
and hoever started this topic, I'll be getting one for christmas and can give you a review... if you feel like waiting that long a-crazy.gif

oh and by the way, the barrel's do not actually spin the bb, rather than create a spinning cushion of air around the bb. since the bb does not actually come in contact with the barrel, it is supposedly much more accurate and gets much more range.


Sorry about not remembering your original comment concerning the way the barrel makes a cushion of air. Just wait until you reach 50 and hopefully your memory won't be as bad as mine. a-blushing.gif I am still curious where your info came from. I have been on a mission lately to collect hard to find info about airsoft upgrades in an effort to make the best decisions about what to do with my G36c.

Besides the twist barrel I ordered yesterday I also have a KM, teflon barrel of the same length coming as well. So between the two barrels and the spring upgrade I should be able to test the differences. And if the spring upgrade overpowers the twist barrel I could always put the original CA G36c spring back in to see how that compares. Stay tuned.
callme.nasty
QUOTE (Bullfrog @ Nov 16 2006, 10:04 AM) *
Sorry about not remembering your original comment concerning the way the barrel makes a cushion of air. Just wait until you reach 50 and hopefully your memory won't be as bad as mine. a-blushing.gif I am still curious where your info came from. I have been on a mission lately to collect hard to find info about airsoft upgrades in an effort to make the best decisions about what to do with my G36c.

Besides the twist barrel I ordered yesterday I also have a KM, teflon barrel of the same length coming as well. So between the two barrels and the spring upgrade I should be able to test the differences. And if the spring upgrade overpowers the twist barrel I could always put the original CA G36c spring back in to see how that compares. Stay tuned.


sweet. if you could, test accuracy from multiple different distances. try to get a different paper target for each test, so we can see the actual results. no one yet has done side by side tests against another tightbore. also, check how the groupings compare on full auto, since no one yet has any idea whether this thing works on full auto or not.
Bullfrog
QUOTE (callme.nasty @ Nov 16 2006, 02:09 PM) *
sweet. if you could, test accuracy from multiple different distances. try to get a different paper target for each test, so we can see the actual results. no one yet has done side by side tests against another tightbore. also, check how the groupings compare on full auto, since no one yet has any idea whether this thing works on full auto or not.


I may also try a 9.6v battery to increase the ROF, in addition to the 8.4v battery. And just for fun I will try both .20 and .25 bbs for the sake of science.

My parts won't come in until next week and depending on family and work schedules this test may take a week or two to get set up.

BTW - a silent head set will lower fps between 5 and 20 fps, according to a reliable source. The sound reduction is suppose to be significant but I have no first hand knowledge.
callme.nasty
QUOTE (Bullfrog @ Nov 16 2006, 02:06 PM) *
I may also try a 9.6v battery to increase the ROF, in addition to the 8.4v battery. And just for fun I will try both .20 and .25 bbs for the sake of science.

My parts won't come in until next week and depending on family and work schedules this test may take a week or two to get set up.

BTW - a silent head set will lower fps between 5 and 20 fps, according to a reliable source. The sound reduction is suppose to be significant but I have no first hand knowledge.


k thanks.
dirtyroastbeef
I'd love to see the results when you're done testing!
Whorify
I can offically say that the TK barrel at a high FPS will not hurt the gun, but the rifling will have no effects (just like previuosly stated in the thread). I have a TK Barrel in my M4 shooting at 375-380FPS. There's no effects in accuracy from a KM tight bore to the TK barrel at that FPS.

Luckily now that the Tanio Koba barrel is getting more popular more people can be aware of what to expect from these barrels and "NOT" assume what they expect it to do. So if you have a stock AEG, it'll almost be ideal to just drop one of these barrels in your AEG and be able to shoot just as far as higher powered AEGs (especially CA guns since they average in the 320-330 FPS ragne)
dirtyroastbeef
Are these barrels affected by bb weight? Meaning that if my gun shoots at 360fps with .20's and I were to use .25's, dropping my fps down below 330, would the barrel be just as effective if I was shooting .20's at 330 fps?
callme.nasty
QUOTE (Whorify @ Nov 16 2006, 04:07 PM) *
I can offically say that the TK barrel at a high FPS will not hurt the gun, but the rifling will have no effects (just like previuosly stated in the thread). I have a TK Barrel in my M4 shooting at 375-380FPS. There's no effects in accuracy from a KM tight bore to the TK barrel at that FPS.

Luckily now that the Tanio Koba barrel is getting more popular more people can be aware of what to expect from these barrels and "NOT" assume what they expect it to do. So if you have a stock AEG, it'll almost be ideal to just drop one of these barrels in your AEG and be able to shoot just as far as higher powered AEGs (especially CA guns since they average in the 320-330 FPS ragne)


so at that high of an FPS, its not ideal, but it's still better than stock? and how is your gun on full auto.
Bullfrog
QUOTE (dirtyroastbeef @ Nov 16 2006, 06:16 PM) *
Are these barrels affected by bb weight? Meaning that if my gun shoots at 360fps with .20's and I were to use .25's, dropping my fps down below 330, would the barrel be just as effective if I was shooting .20's at 330 fps?


Someone correct me if I'm wrong but it has more to do with joules than fps. A .20 bb going 360fps has the same amount of joules as a .25 bb going 320fps, assuming the decrease is purely a result of a heavier bb.

I still plan to do my tests as stated just to satisfy the scientist in me.
callme.nasty
QUOTE (Bullfrog @ Nov 16 2006, 05:49 PM) *
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but it has more to do with joules than fps. A .20 bb going 360fps has the same amount of joules as a .25 bb going 320fps, assuming the decrease is purely a result of a heavier bb.

I still plan to do my tests as stated just to satisfy the scientist in me.


people say it's joules, but I would think it has to do with how fast the bb is actually traveling through the barrel. so if it's not working right, I think you could just drop in some heavier bb's.
eodcole
QUOTE (callme.nasty @ Nov 16 2006, 04:56 PM) *
people say it's joules, but I would think it has to do with how fast the bb is actually traveling through the barrel. so if it's not working right, I think you could just drop in some heavier bb's.


Well the way I'm thinking it shouldn't be the joules but the velocity of the bb in this case. With a higher velocity it travels through the barrel faster so the barrel doesn't have enough time to cause it's effect on the bb. Now that effect might be hindered by the fact that the bb is heavier and therefore it will be more difficult to effect it's flight via the reverse rifling groves. The only way to test this is to get a gun shooting way over 330fps with .2s and drop in .25s or closer to .3s to see if it matters. I'm very interested in this barrel and will possibly buy one with a M120 or so spring installed in my AUG and then shoot .3ish bbs at the lower velocity. They'll carry much further and hold their velocity longer not to mention if the barrel is the dream maker it is said to be that would be a pretty kick censored2.gif setup for shooting heavy bbs.
JaysonP
QUOTE (Bullfrog @ Nov 16 2006, 07:04 AM) *
I have been on a mission lately to collect hard to find info about airsoft upgrades in an effort to make the best decisions about what to do with my G36c.


Yeah, good luck with that... you probably won't actually FIND the information here, since no one seems to go the scientific route and PROVE anything.. these whole boards are filled with a whole lotta speculation. Only a few people have actually took it upon themselves (and stopped taking the word of Asian marketeers and salesman) to get some hard scientific PROOF about certain upgrades/barrels/parts/accesories and all that.

Any possible way you could PM me what you got so far? I also have a G36c which is pretty heavily upgraded now, and I would be happy to share my upgrades/suggestions for it if you'd like, in return for any links/info to actual datum you may have.

Once I get my gun downgraded back to stock for testing purposes, I am going to make a review/data thread about the Dees 6.01 tightbore barrels. I own one in my gun and I will hopefully be able to get some hard values on accuracy/velocity increase. I have already got my testing apparatuses in place, just gotta find the time to actually go through with it.

One last note, it would seem to me that Tanio Koba would make some barrels for 1.5 joule guns, too... I would think this would be simply down to making the reverse-rifling grooves tighter or more relaxed... I couldn't say, though, since I'm no engineer.
callme.nasty
QUOTE (JaysonP @ Nov 16 2006, 06:45 PM) *
Yeah, good luck with that... you probably won't actually FIND the information here, since no one seems to go the scientific route and PROVE anything.. these whole boards are filled with a whole lotta speculation. Only a few people have actually took it upon themselves (and stopped taking the word of Asian marketeers and salesman) to get some hard scientific PROOF about certain upgrades/barrels/parts/accesories and all that.

Any possible way you could PM me what you got so far? I also have a G36c which is pretty heavily upgraded now, and I would be happy to share my upgrades/suggestions for it if you'd like, in return for any links/info to actual datum you may have.

Once I get my gun downgraded back to stock for testing purposes, I am going to make a review/data thread about the Dees 6.01 tightbore barrels. I own one in my gun and I will hopefully be able to get some hard values on accuracy/velocity increase. I have already got my testing apparatuses in place, just gotta find the time to actually go through with it.

One last note, it would seem to me that Tanio Koba would make some barrels for 1.5 joule guns, too... I would think this would be simply down to making the reverse-rifling grooves tighter or more relaxed... I couldn't say, though, since I'm no engineer.


thats what I was thinking. but if a higher fps calls for more relaxed grooves, they probably wouldn't make as much of an effect. or maybe they will.
Bullfrog
QUOTE (JaysonP @ Nov 16 2006, 07:45 PM) *
Yeah, good luck with that... you probably won't actually FIND the information here, since no one seems to go the scientific route and PROVE anything.. these whole boards are filled with a whole lotta speculation. Only a few people have actually took it upon themselves (and stopped taking the word of Asian marketeers and salesman) to get some hard scientific PROOF about certain upgrades/barrels/parts/accesories and all that.

Any possible way you could PM me what you got so far? I also have a G36c which is pretty heavily upgraded now, and I would be happy to share my upgrades/suggestions for it if you'd like, in return for any links/info to actual datum you may have.

Once I get my gun downgraded back to stock for testing purposes, I am going to make a review/data thread about the Dees 6.01 tightbore barrels. I own one in my gun and I will hopefully be able to get some hard values on accuracy/velocity increase. I have already got my testing apparatuses in place, just gotta find the time to actually go through with it.

One last note, it would seem to me that Tanio Koba would make some barrels for 1.5 joule guns, too... I would think this would be simply down to making the reverse-rifling grooves tighter or more relaxed... I couldn't say, though, since I'm no engineer.


So far I haven't got too much hard data. Mainly information based on non-imperical "facts" and opinions based on personal experience. There were two fps charts made that tested just about every spring on the market using the same gun setup. http://www.mechbox.com/site/airsoft-spring...ison-chart.html or http://www.airsoftcanada.com/SpringChart.html

Like I said before when I get my parts in from wgcshop.com I will have an interesting array of barrels and springs to do worthwhile testing. Currently my G36c is shooting ~365fps using .25 bbs with a 300mm, 6.04 tight bore inner barrel and a 110 spring. It was shooting 330fps with .2 bbs on stock internals and barrel. I plan to test the new 363mm KM teflon inner barrel against the 363mm TK twist barrel and the 300mm inner barrel and the 247mm stock barrel. With each barrel I will use the upgrade spring and the stock spring.
I will also test each set up with .20 and .25 bbs. Possibly .3 bbs if I can get some in time. Each set up will be chrono'ed and set in a rifle stand to shoot targets set at three or four distances. Target tests will be in semi and auto mode. The hard part will be to get the hop up adjusted optimally for each set up so that the results will have meaningful comparisons.

Any suggesions for this experiment are welcomed.
Mad_tomato
.Think about it logically. Its not the joulde, I believe they stated that for .2 using only as a easy way to know what to put your fps limit at. Its not a matter as to how much air the bb cuts thruogh without losing resistance. It doesnt affect the air behind it. The air path is the same(almost). The air rotating around behind the bb just has to be able to actually put a effect on the bb. It is most likely how fast it leaves the barrel. AND WOULD RPS AFFECT IT?
hsimoorb
QUOTE
AND WOULD RPS AFFECT IT?


There's absolutely no evidence or even conjecture(which is far more plentiful in this subject) to support the opinion that rate of fire would matter.
callme.nasty
QUOTE (hsimoorb @ Nov 18 2006, 11:22 PM) *
There's absolutely no evidence or even conjecture(which is far more plentiful in this subject) to support the opinion that rate of fire would matter.


it definetely isn't proven, but I can see how its possible.

I bet Adam and Jamie over at mythbuster's could find a better way to make these things work.
hsimoorb
QUOTE
I bet Adam and Jamie over at mythbuster's could find a better way to make these things work.


Dude, those guys could make a killing in the airsoft market. I would totaly buy an A&J M4.
tmfreak
Madbull produces their own rifled inner barrels as well. They run about 45$
Bullfrog
QUOTE (tmfreak @ Nov 21 2006, 02:20 PM) *
Madbull produces their own rifled inner barrels as well. They run about 45$


Can you give a link to where they are available?
callme.nasty
have you done the tests yet? or atleast used the barrel?
H&KIsAWESOME
Here is a nice review(of a sort) on the barrels.

QUOTE (tmfreak @ Nov 21 2006, 11:20 AM) *
Madbull produces their own rifled inner barrels as well. They run about 45$


Are you sure about that? I thought MadBull barrels were smooth bore. a-salute.gif
Bullfrog
QUOTE (callme.nasty @ Dec 11 2006, 07:43 PM) *
have you done the tests yet? or atleast used the barrel?

I have installed the barrel in my G36c and I am waiting for good weather and time to run the tests. I have already tested a KM teflon tightbore in my AEG. I am currently reaching 371fps with .2 bbs so I look forward to what may or may not happen to my accuracy. I may go back down to my stock spring for additional tests before this is all completed. If the weather cooperates I hope to have all my tests done in the next week or two.
eodcole
QUOTE (Bullfrog @ Dec 12 2006, 10:49 AM) *
I have installed the barrel in my G36c and I am waiting for good weather and time to run the tests. I have already tested a KM teflon tightbore in my AEG. I am currently reaching 371fps with .2 bbs so I look forward to what may or may not happen to my accuracy. I may go back down to my stock spring for additional tests before this is all completed. If the weather cooperates I hope to have all my tests done in the next week or two.


Any updates on this bullfrog?
callme.nasty
anything yet? no problem if you haven't, I've forgotten about airsoft recently. its cold out.
Guges Mk3
It is indeed a low power AEG barrel. High FPS negates the stablizing factors of the raised grooves on the barrel. Idealyl your AEG should not exceed 330fps.
Whorify
I still have my twist barrel. upgraded to 400 FPS with a SP110 spring. I recently switched to a KM inner barrel just to see the difference and my FPS raised to 430fps. I also noticed increased accuracy. so yes, the twist barrel is only for low FPS.

if anyone is interested, I'll be selling my TK twist barrel soon
Bullfrog
QUOTE (eodcole @ Feb 5 2007, 04:55 PM) *
Any updates on this bullfrog?

I am in the middle of writing up the results and gathering the photos of the target results. If time permits I will have it on Airsoft Specialists within the week. Sorry about the delay. Too busy at work and home to get to this for a while. It is the price of adulthood. As you will see the TK barrel did not impress me much. At least the way I had the G36c set up during the tests.
Bullfrog
The results from my barrel tests are finally up on Airsoft Specialists. As you will see the results are still subject to interpretation but at least they are actual, physical tests. Enjoy.

http://www.airsoftspecialists.com/articles...barreltests.htm
Von Luck
-


Bravo! My goodness!!

I like data like this. Thank you for putting so much time and effort for such labor-intensive work! I sure do appreciate it. I like applying meanings to numbers like these. I am also glad that it also seems to prove that using heavier BBs improves, as much as using tight bores.

When I measure groupings, I measure the two shots that are farthest apart. That way, I get the widest possible reading. I can let myself think, "well it's 7 inches high, but width is only 2 inches, so it's as good as average 4.5 inches." If I conclude that that grouping is 4.5 inches (average of 2" and 7"), and shoot a target with a margine of error of 5 inches, the shot might land at 6 inch, and 7 inch line. I would miss my target.

Your grouping measures horizontal and vertical. For the simplications I looked at the biggest number and also averaged horizontal and vertical measurements.

By looking at the biggest numbers (either of horizontal or vertical) at 100 feet, and averages using 0.25g:

[1] TK Twist barrel 363mm x 6.04mm = 6.75" [5.687" Horizontal and vertical averaged]
[2] KM teflon 407mm x 6.04mm = 9" [8.625" H & V averaged]
[3] Prometheus 363 x 6.03mm = 9.5" (0.28g) [7.25" H & V avaraged]
[4] KM 300mm x 6.04mm =12.75" [10.125" H & V averaged]

This result is the same, TK comes on top, even if you take the average of horizontal and vertical, instead of taking the biggest number (althouth Prometheus becomes #2-but remember Prometheus used heaveier 0.28g BBs).

Aside from TK twist barrel, the longer the barrel, the more accurate it seems. Promotheus is a bit of disappointment since its 50' test was the better than TK. 9.5 inches seem a bit high, considering how tight 50' groupings were. If you think about it, how could a 2.85 inch grouping at 50 feet, becomes 9.5 inches at 100? I think it should be more like 8 inches, as average shows. It wouldn't change the fact that TK did best though. One way that might help is to discredit one shot that's farthest out of the group of shots. If you do that, Prometheus would come second and KT 407mm would be the third. But still, TK would be on top and the shortest KM 300mm would be still the last.

I hear TK barrel is supposed to work best for 1 Joule set-up, so 140 spring is probably over the top as it's about 1.3 joule. One of the links suggested that slowing down the fps by using heavier BBs does not seem to work with TK barrel. That link's conclusion was to have 1 Joule setting. Obviously I do not know if that's true or not. I don't have a TK barrel.

From your painstaking tests (thank you again), it seems like TK works pretty good, even for a 1.3 joule rifle. I mean, if you average horizontal and vertical measurements, CA stock's 50' 0.2g test and Km 300mm's 50' 0.2g test is little worse than TK 100 feet 0.25g test. Granted that TK's 100 feet test is with heavier 0.25g, but still, TK's 100' grouping is narrower than other barrel's 50' groupings?

Also compared to other 100 feet test's averages, TK barrel did almost 2 inches better (about 1.6 inch) than the second best. The second best, Prometheus used 0.28g, and it has 0.01mm tighter bore. TK did almost 3 inches tighter against longer 407mm barrel. This result still stands even if you don't include one of the wildest shots from each target.

Looking at the numbers you got, I am very impressed by TK twist barrel. It did better than longer barrel of same tightness. It did better than tighter barrel of same length. And it did better than even heavier BBs.

I am very impressed by the TK twist barrel.



-
Bullfrog
I appreciate you adding your analysis to the test data I collected. Don't forget the wind complication I had to deal with in the 2nd series of tests. I don't know exactly how to factor that into the equation but I'm sure it had some affect on accuracy.
Guges Mk3
Would you have an opportunity to tighten the tests in a stage 3 comparision with barrels that are all the same length?
Bullfrog
QUOTE (Guges Mk3 @ Feb 16 2007, 09:02 AM) *
Would you have an opportunity to tighten the tests in a stage 3 comparision with barrels that are all the same length?

There is always a possibility. Right now, with work, family, and church activities I have my plate pretty full. One thing I would like to test is a 6.01mm tightbore to see for myself if the bore diameter has as much to do with accuracy as I think it does. Also, I would like to find an indoor facility that would allow me to shoot 100 feet or more to take the weather out of the equation.

I think if and when I test again it will be with 363mm barrels only, power down my G36c to 1J and see how the TK does against tightbores of different bore diameters. Don't expect this in a week or two.
Von Luck
QUOTE (Bullfrog @ Feb 16 2007, 07:50 AM) *
I appreciate you adding your analysis to the test data I collected. Don't forget the wind complication I had to deal with in the 2nd series of tests. I don't know exactly how to factor that into the equation but I'm sure it had some affect on accuracy.



Yes, I didn't know how to factor in the wind either.

One way is to discount one zinger out of each target on the second day. If you do that, TK is still on top, but Prometheus would come second, third would be 407mm barrel. 300mm short barrel would come last. I don't know if that's an accurate way to compensate for the wind.


What's interesting is that you tested 407mm barrel on the second day too. And that didn't show a lot of variation. Wind might have blown all 10 shots to one direction or the other consistently. I don't know if that's the right conclusion or not. Oddly, on the windy day, 50 feet 0.2g result was better than the 50 feet test from the calm day.

If you average the 50' 0.25g test from calm day and windy day, calm day's grouping was 73% of the windy day, but if you take 50' 0.2g test too, That's about 0.6% tigher on the windy day. Then we can multiply 0.736 to the second days' test only. That's another way to compensate for the wind on the windy day's tests. If we do that, TK and Prometheus get to have almost identical grouping (Prometheus gets tighter grouping on average, TK gets to have tighter grouping if you consider only the big measurement out of horizontal or vertical measurements. Either way, not by much.).

If we compensate for the wind by multilpying 0.736 to the windy day results only, one very strange thing happens. 407mm and 300mm barrels get to have almost identical groupings. 407mm and 300mm having same kind of a grouping would be very odd. Especially since they have same bore of 6.04mm. Considering that, applying 0.736 may be over-compensating for the wind. Even so, TK didn't do bad though.

No matter how people do analysis on your results, I do appreciate that you did all that work.

Thank you.


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