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kracka1031
A few friends on my team have recently gotten arrested for something non airsoft related.

They are ordered not to possess any weapons.

I have been trying to do some research for them to see if they can still own, or use an airsoft gun, but no luck.


So my question: Are airsoft guns considered weapons when using them properly?

If not, can somone please link me to a source?
SilentK
yes they are weapons. even if used properly. when you go to a range to shoot a glock 17, if you use it properly does than mean it is no longer a weapon and you can do whatever you want to do with it? no it is still a weapon. it can still kill. airguns can kill, airsoft guns can rarely kill but they still can kill. he should not get one
Milford Airsoft
They didnt get arrested for anything true, some kid lied about the,.

Anyway, I've been dong research and things are pointing to the fcat that if you have a blaze orange tip, they are considered TOYS.

Baseball bats can kill too, but your allowed to own them.
Avneet
Ok that seems way wrong already. By your defintion, if I bought a real glock and painted its tip orange, it is no longer a weapon.

Also make sure you are checking local and state laws too. They can be different. For instance the city me nephew lives in can't discharge airsoft rifles and in mine we can(same state). Moral is that laws can change in areas.
kracka1031
QUOTE (Avneet @ Jan 9 2008, 12:39 AM) *
Ok that seems way wrong already. By your defintion, if I bought a real glock and painted its tip orange, it is no longer a weapon.


By his definition??? Milford airsoft is saying that if it COMES with an orange tip.

Wow, some real help please?

Im not talking about real steel firearms.

Im talking about airsoft guns.
Doc
you need to be more detailed.

what exactly were they arrested for? what were the charges?
what state do you live in? each state has their own laws
kracka1031
QUOTE (Doc @ Jan 9 2008, 09:33 AM) *
you need to be more detailed.

what exactly were they arrested for? what were the charges?
what state do you live in? each state has their own laws


It was a school fight. I live in connecticut. I do not know the charges.
mp510
QUOTE (kracka1031 @ Jan 9 2008, 04:24 PM) *
... I live in connecticut. ...



There have been numerous instances when indivividuals have been charged with 53-206 (carrying a dangerous weapon) and/or 53a-217b (dangerous weapon or firearm on school grounds) for carrying airsoft guns. In the definition of a dangerous weapon in 53-206, "BB Guns" are specifically identified as a dangerous weapon. Additionally, there is statuatory verbiage that allows a police officer to decide that an implement not specifically defined as a dengerous weapon in 53-206 is a dangerous weapon at the relative discretion of a police officer ("any other dangerous or deadly weapon").

Would I be correct in assuming that this is a condition of either pre-trial release (bond or ROR (including an FAT/ citation)), or a condition of their Parole or Probation?

Unless they can get specific clearance from their parole/probation officer or a judge; they should not be handling or posessing (to include having access to control or having dominion over) the air soft guns or any other implement that could reasonably be considered a weapon per their conditions until such a time comes that they are relieved of the burden. Violations of conditions of bail may result in revocation his bail and the possibility of being remanded until court preceedings are completed. Violating parole or probation could result in any number of bad outcomes. Additionally, if their parole or probation is part of a Youthful Offender, Accelerated Rehabilitation, or nolle arrangement, this could result in negative consequences including their dismissal from an expungement resulting program which could induce further consequences incluing a permenant criminal record (depending on the exact circumstances). It really is not worth the risk.
securityboy
QUOTE (kracka1031 @ Jan 8 2008, 09:59 PM) *
A few friends on my team have recently gotten arrested for something non airsoft related.

They are ordered not to possess any weapons.

I have been trying to do some research for them to see if they can still own, or use an airsoft gun, but no luck.
So my question: Are airsoft guns considered weapons when using them properly?

If not, can somone please link me to a source?


You (or more correctly they) need to consult a real lawyer, and not get there legal advice regarding a criminal complaint from "kids" on the internet...
Xanderk
QUOTE (securityboy @ Jan 15 2008, 01:17 PM) *
You (or more correctly they) need to consult a real lawyer, and not get there legal advice regarding a criminal complaint from "kids" on the internet...


I agree that is what lawyers are for, but in my opinion don't do it not worth the risk.
Laments Song
If they are prohibited of having any more weapons, then they should not be using anything Airsoft. Because technically, they are weapons. But if they are prohibited to having or using any guns, then they are safe, but the federal definition of a firearm (Gun). Look up on the ATF (http//www.atf.gov) website for the actual definition. Of course, state, county, and/or city laws may differ.
D0096F
Bit of a necro post (guy above me)...but...

No it's not a weapon. Sure, it looks real and should be kept away from all public view (by law in some places), but it is not a weapon, and I have never heard of anyone killed by an airsoft gun (bb gun, yes, airsoft, no). I'm a little confused here though...Your friend was in a fight at school and got his guns taken away (which he is too young to own, unless you're talking college) and so he wants to replace it with a fake gun? Why are you trying to help him with this?
Laments Song
QUOTE (D0096F @ Feb 9 2008, 01:12 PM) *
Bit of a necro post (guy above me)...but...

No it's not a weapon. Sure, it looks real and should be kept away from all public view (by law in some places), but it is not a weapon, and I have never heard of anyone killed by an airsoft gun (bb gun, yes, airsoft, no). I'm a little confused here though...Your friend was in a fight at school and got his guns taken away (which he is too young to own, unless you're talking college) and so he wants to replace it with a fake gun? Why are you trying to help him with this?

Sorry, it was less than a month, so I was not thinking that it would be too dead.

But unfortunately, depending upon the state, it is considered a weapon. Like in Washington State, where I live, if you pull one on someone, especially if it has had the barrel tip painted, you can do time just as if you actually pulled a real firearm on a person. Even if it isn't loaded and/or gassed/charged/whatever. Even if you don't actually kill a person, but simply hurt them ("Shoot your eye out with that thing kid. Haw, haw, haw..."), you can still be charged with Assault in the 3nd degree here, which carries up to 10 years in prison, plus a three year firearm enhancement, even though it is an Airsoft "gun", and not the real thing.
D0096F
QUOTE (Laments Song @ Feb 9 2008, 10:32 PM) *
Sorry, it was less than a month, so I was not thinking that it would be too dead.

But unfortunately, depending upon the state, it is considered a weapon. Like in Washington State, where I live, if you pull one on someone, especially if it has had the barrel tip painted, you can do time just as if you actually pulled a real firearm on a person. Even if it isn't loaded and/or gassed/charged/whatever. Even if you don't actually kill a person, but simply hurt them ("Shoot your eye out with that thing kid. Haw, haw, haw..."), you can still be charged with Assault in the 3nd degree here, which carries up to 10 years in prison, plus a three year firearm enhancement, even though it is an Airsoft "gun", and not the real thing.

That doesn't make it a weapon, here in VA a kid was arrested for pointing a rubber band gun at a guy because the guy "felt like his life was in danger". That doesn't make the rubber band gun a weapon, just like an airsoft gun. Sure if you do bad things with it you'll get in trouble, but it is not a weapon.
Laments Song
QUOTE (D0096F @ Feb 9 2008, 08:06 PM) *
That doesn't make it a weapon, here in VA a kid was arrested for pointing a rubber band gun at a guy because the guy "felt like his life was in danger". That doesn't make the rubber band gun a weapon, just like an airsoft gun. Sure if you do bad things with it you'll get in trouble, but it is not a weapon.

Very true, but it all depends upon the state. Afterall, there was an 18 year old kid that was sitting at home at the front of the house, and a 15 year old neighbor kid came home from school. The 18 yo started swearing at the 15 yo, and even spat towards him. Did not get any spit on him, only at him. The 15 yo went inside and told his mom, who called the police. They arrested the 18 yo for Assault in the 4th degree. At the time, that was a misdemeanor, now, it's a felony.

So it all depends upon the state and how the "authorities" are feeling at the time.
D0096F
QUOTE (Laments Song @ Feb 10 2008, 08:55 PM) *
Very true, but it all depends upon the state. Afterall, there was an 18 year old kid that was sitting at home at the front of the house, and a 15 year old neighbor kid came home from school. The 18 yo started swearing at the 15 yo, and even spat towards him. Did not get any spit on him, only at him. The 15 yo went inside and told his mom, who called the police. They arrested the 18 yo for Assault in the 4th degree. At the time, that was a misdemeanor, now, it's a felony.

So it all depends upon the state and how the "authorities" are feeling at the time.

...so how does that make it a weapon?
feeny
Everything is a weapon with the right force applied.

This conversation is pointless, if you really MUST know ask an administrator/counselor at you're school or a police officer in you're city.
Laments Song
QUOTE (D0096F @ Feb 10 2008, 07:38 PM) *
...so how does that make it a weapon?

So how does cussing at a person, and spitting at them make it assault? It all depends upon the situation. I knew of a guy that went to prison for stabbing a person with a screwdriver. In Washington state, getting in a fight was generally Assault in the 4th degree, but if you have any fighting training, then you get bumped to Assault in the 2nd degree. Even if you don't use anything other than your own hands and feet.

So the thread starter needs to have his buddy speak with someone in authority over what is okay for them to carry/use. Just as feeny suggested.
JLee
If he's still out on bail, have him contact the court to find the answer.
kevine326
Ok. Lets end this pointless debate.

I would recommend you do what some other posters said and have that individual talk to his police station or parole officer and discuss his interest in playing airsoft or acquiring a airsoft gun.

For posterities sake:

In connecticut airsoft guns ARE NOT a firearm. I researched this last semester when we were making the proposal for a on-field campus here at UCONN and I also work at a police station and have verified this with officers there.
Unfortunately I can not find the file on my PC that I saved the state law number as...


Since you are in CT I would recommend you also register on the airsoftct forums if you want to discuss things in CT.


Lastly, if you are not playing at a designated field in CT your rolling the dice. Play at SP, TOLCOM in Mass, Bethany (if they still have games), with SCA at their practice area, or MAYBE at UCONN with us. DO NOT run around the woods behind your friends house and freak when the cops come and arrest (or worse shoot you) you cause they have no idea what is going on.


Kevin
CO
University of Connecticut
Airsoft Team
D0096F
QUOTE (Laments Song @ Feb 10 2008, 11:54 PM) *
So how does cussing at a person, and spitting at them make it assault? It all depends upon the situation. I knew of a guy that went to prison for stabbing a person with a screwdriver. In Washington state, getting in a fight was generally Assault in the 4th degree, but if you have any fighting training, then you get bumped to Assault in the 2nd degree. Even if you don't use anything other than your own hands and feet.

So the thread starter needs to have his buddy speak with someone in authority over what is okay for them to carry/use. Just as feeny suggested.

Please use logic. His question was wether or not simply owning it will get him in trouble since he is not allowed to possess weapons. It's a yes or no question (or good advice like saying to talk to a lawyer etc.). Putting his friend in hypothetical situations where it would be considered a weapon is pointless.
zoob
Logicly speaking if it's not airsoft related why is it here. Anything can kill, so even if your gun is clear it's still considred a wepon.
Laments Song
QUOTE (D0096F @ Feb 11 2008, 02:12 PM) *
Please use logic. His question was wether or not simply owning it will get him in trouble since he is not allowed to possess weapons. It's a yes or no question (or good advice like saying to talk to a lawyer etc.). Putting his friend in hypothetical situations where it would be considered a weapon is pointless.

Because the law varies by state and by situation. As has been said, and by me as well, he should check with his local authorities about this. The ATF does not consider Airsoft to be real firearms. But that does not mean that a police officer who happens to see him out and about with his might not draw done on him, or worse still, shoot him.

I brought up the Assault charge and spitting to show how ridiculous the authorities can be. Always err on the side of caution.
kevine326
QUOTE (Laments Song @ Feb 11 2008, 09:24 PM) *
Because the law varies by state and by situation. As has been said, and by me as well, he should check with his local authorities about this. The ATF does not consider Airsoft to be real firearms. But that does not mean that a police officer who happens to see him out and about with his might not draw done on him, or worse still, shoot him.

I brought up the Assault charge and spitting to show how ridiculous the authorities can be. Always err on the side of caution.



As I posted above airsoft guns are not considered firearms in the state of Connecticut.
D0096F
QUOTE (Laments Song @ Feb 11 2008, 09:24 PM) *
Because the law varies by state and by situation. As has been said, and by me as well, he should check with his local authorities about this. The ATF does not consider Airsoft to be real firearms. But that does not mean that a police officer who happens to see him out and about with his might not draw done on him, or worse still, shoot him.

I brought up the Assault charge and spitting to show how ridiculous the authorities can be. Always err on the side of caution.

And what does any of that have to do with whether or not it is legal for him to own one? He didn't ask if he could wave it in a police man's face!
Laments Song
QUOTE (kracka1031 @ Jan 8 2008, 06:59 PM) *
A few friends on my team have recently gotten arrested for something non airsoft related.

They are ordered not to possess any weapons.

I have been trying to do some research for them to see if they can still own, or use an airsoft gun, but no luck.


So my question: Are airsoft guns considered weapons when using them properly?

If not, can somone please link me to a source?



QUOTE (kevine326 @ Feb 12 2008, 09:33 AM) *
As I posted above airsoft guns are not considered firearms in the state of Connecticut.


I don't think that any state has a definition that makes an Airsoft "gun" a real firearm. But, the OP was concerned that they would be considered weapons. I am pretty sure that many states allow a person to carry a folding blade pocket knife with little problems. But the length varies by state, as well as some may require that said knife may be one with a pocket clip that is visible when you are carrying said knife. I don't know what state he lives in, I don't even know all of the definitions and laws here in Washington State, where I live. But I highly agree and endorse that the OP and/or his friends consult with the local authorities, and/or their lawyer if things have gotten to that level, to see if them even being at a Airsoft field is a legal nightmare waiting to rear it's ugly head, much less participating in those activities.
Laments Song
QUOTE (D0096F @ Feb 12 2008, 11:34 AM) *
And what does any of that have to do with whether or not it is legal for him to own one? He didn't ask if he could wave it in a police man's face!

Honestly, are you people now choosing to argue with me, simply to argue?
D0096F
QUOTE (Laments Song @ Feb 12 2008, 09:28 PM) *
Honestly, are you people now choosing to argue with me, simply to argue?

Double posting is against the rules...next time just edit it in.

You started out saying it was fine in your first post, I posted a reply to someone else's post, then you said it was a weapon in some states. I am just trying to point out that it is not a weapon in any state that I know of, if you could find me one, where it would be illegal for this guy to own when a normal guy could own it, then I guess you're right, but until then I'm just saying, it's not a weapon. It's not illegal for him to own. I''m sure if he waved a baseball bat at a police man he'd get into serious trouble,but it is not illegal for him to own...anyway, this has gone on way too long, mostly because of us, I'm done.
Laments Song
QUOTE (D0096F @ Feb 12 2008, 06:35 PM) *
Double posting is against the rules...next time just edit it in.

You started out saying it was fine in your first post, I posted a reply to someone else's post, then you said it was a weapon in some states. I am just trying to point out that it is not a weapon in any state that I know of, if you could find me one, where it would be illegal for this guy to own when a normal guy could own it, then I guess you're right, but until then I'm just saying, it's not a weapon. It's not illegal for him to own. I''m sure if he waved a baseball bat at a police man he'd get into serious trouble,but it is not illegal for him to own...anyway, this has gone on way too long, mostly because of us, I'm done.


Actually, I did not notice your post above mine until I posted the last time. Sorry, I did not think that it was a double post at the time. My apologies.

Now where did I say that it was fine:
QUOTE (Laments Song @ Feb 8 2008, 09:17 PM) *
If they are prohibited of having any more weapons, then they should not be using anything Airsoft. Because technically, they are weapons. But if they are prohibited to having or using any guns, then they are safe, but the federal definition of a firearm (Gun). Look up on the ATF (http//www.atf.gov) website for the actual definition. Of course, state, county, and/or city laws may differ.


I only said that it would okay if they were prohibited from possessing (Whether owning or simply using) a firearm. But if it weapons in general, why take a chance? Seriously, if the police are going to say that cussing and swearing at a person, and spitting at them, is worthy of an Assault charge, then who is to say that his friends, most likely minors since the OP is also a minor, can't get in more trouble for possessing a weapon, even if it is an Airsoft pistol that is in a locked case in the trunk of a car? Afterall, minor's don't have the rights that the rest of us do, so they can't say that a police officer that pulls them over for speeding, or a broken tail light, can't search their car.

And maybe carrying a baseball bat might be a bad thing, even if it is in the trunk of his car, but he is not coming home from baseball practice. Who knows with the law enforcement officer at the time and place that something stupid happens?

I believe in playing it safe, but according to Federal Laws and definitions, they are all okay.
mp510
QUOTE (D0096F @ Feb 12 2008, 09:35 PM) *
Double posting is against the rules...next time just edit it in.

You started out saying it was fine in your first post, I posted a reply to someone else's post, then you said it was a weapon in some states. I am just trying to point out that it is not a weapon in any state that I know of, if you could find me one, where it would be illegal for this guy to own when a normal guy could own it, then I guess you're right, but until then I'm just saying, it's not a weapon. It's not illegal for him to own. I''m sure if he waved a baseball bat at a police man he'd get into serious trouble,but it is not illegal for him to own...anyway, this has gone on way too long, mostly because of us, I'm done.


In Connecticut, people have been charged with 53-206 (Carrying a Dangerous Weapon) and other felony weapons charges for simply carrying airsoft guns on their person. Note that I use the word simply very loosly- since other stupid behavior is what caused LE interation to begin with. There was also a rather infamous incident when a Hartford wrecker driver was charged with 29-38 (Weapon in a vehicle) for the bat he kept in his wrecker cab for protection.

While they are not statuatorily firearms, airsoft guns very much have been treated as weapons by Connecituct LE in the past.
KEVMAN569
Well I don't know if this helps, but my school's firewall blocks AirsoftGI.
carbine008
I am pretty sure that, in some areas, if someone is on parole carrying an item that looks like a weapon, that is also illegal.
zoob
If airsoft is illeagal the government would arrest us all. Now however owning one is not illegal considering it's techneccally not in your possesion you just own it. It's like a car, you own the title, but it's not street legal, if you don't drive it cops can't arrest you. Honestly I'm dissapointed that you couldn't settle this issue by your selves. mad.gif a-angry.gif wheres a lawer when you guys need one.
Laments Song
QUOTE (zoob @ Mar 5 2008, 07:27 PM) *
If airsoft is illeagal the government would arrest us all. Now however owning one is not illegal considering it's techneccally not in your possesion you just own it. It's like a car, you own the title, but it's not street legal, if you don't drive it cops can't arrest you. Honestly I'm dissapointed that you couldn't settle this issue by your selves. mad.gif a-angry.gif wheres a lawer when you guys need one.

Actually, I don't think that anyone here has said that it is illegal to own airsoft. But local authorities may decide that they want to put extra restrictions on someone that has gotten in trouble. Kinda like if you are a convicted felon, you can't own a real steel firearm? And the OP wanted to know if his buddies would get in trouble if they bought, played, possessed, used, or in any way were involved with airsoft. I think that it has been stated quite a few times already, none of us can truly answer that question, the OP's friends would have to consult the local authorities about what is okay for them to do.
zoob
QUOTE (Laments Song @ Mar 5 2008, 10:46 PM) *
Actually, I don't think that anyone here has said that it is illegal to own airsoft. But local authorities may decide that they want to put extra restrictions on someone that has gotten in trouble. Kinda like if you are a convicted felon, you can't own a real steel firearm? And the OP wanted to know if his buddies would get in trouble if they bought, played, possessed, used, or in any way were involved with airsoft. I think that it has been stated quite a few times already, none of us can truly answer that question, the OP's friends would have to consult the local authorities about what is okay for them to do.

Ohhhh.... I kindda thought you guys were talking about can you own one when the police find it in your posession. OK my bad.
Storm774
Ok, here's my $.02 worth...

Airsoft guns fall into the same category as BB guns, air pistols, etc... They are not firearms (and niether are Cap and Balls, Muskets or Black Powder guns legally), but they do fire a projectile at a relatively high rate of speed (above 200FPS in 90% of the ones out there - we'll not include the last 10% - LOL), and are therefore considered a weapon...

Usually anything that fires a projectile is considered a weapon by the judicial system and Law Enforcement Agencies...

Hopefully this will end that debate...

Best advice for your friends... Ask the court officials, a lawyer, or PO, pr LE as to whether or not your area (or the case) would consider airsoft guns as a weaopn... I'm fairly certain that you will find that these officials may not let your friends play airsoft until after the sentance, community service, or other legal proceedings are over with...

If they showed poor judgement in the eyes of the law, the court, and the school... Chances are they won't be playing for a while unless they want to be found in contempt of court, or contempt of judicial ruling (basically the same thing in lamens terms) and have an added sentance, or charge added on... Best to err on the side of caution here...

When in doubt, ask questions to the RIGHT people... Don't go on-line to look for answers...
Night Fire
A pencil is a weapon, any tangible object can be used as a weapon. I think what the judge meant by no weapons was, "no firearms". Realistically you wouldn't think of someone using a pencil as a weapon, you would think of a rifle or a knife. They are safe to play airsoft.

Not likely. Unless you're a lawyer or a cop, don't be posting stuff that is borderline. Especially when it's not your neck on the line. You forget that many judges are pro-gun control. ~Bat
Storm774
QUOTE (Night Fire @ Mar 13 2008, 04:37 AM) *
A pencil is a weapon, any tangible object can be used as a weapon. I think what the judge meant by no weapons was, "no firearms". Realistically you wouldn't think of someone using a pencil as a weapon, you would think of a rifle or a knife. They are safe to play airsoft.


Unless you are a lawyer, don't give out legal advice that might end up getting someone in more trouble...

It all depends on what the judge deems as a weapon.
Best to check with legal counsel before doing something that may get you into further trouble.
bat21win
No one but a lawyer or the judge can say for sure. So, speculation session, over.
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