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Aeg Electrical Guide! + Rewire Video!


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101 replies to this topic

#1 GoLgo 13

GoLgo 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Osan, South Korea

Posted 20 March 2008 - 05:36 AM

I get alot of questions about Mosfets rewiring etc etc. So I decided to put together a guide to help clear up some common issues people might have and to show how to make your own mosfets capacitor banks etc etc.

WIRE SELECTION!

There are many different wire types, all of which have advantages and disadvantages. Here are the main types you should consider using in your AEG.

Solid Wire
Pros - Very thin
- Low resistance
- handles more amperage than comparable gauge stranded wire
- very stiff, easy to route through gearbox and such
Cons
- breaks easily
- very stiff, can be bad in some cases

Hook-up Wire
Pros - pretty flexible
- thinner than silicone wire
- easy and cheap to come by
- tough insulation
Cons
- 16ga wire sometimes too thick for Ver 2 gearbox
- not the top performer in low resistance and amperage rating dept

Teflon coated mil-spec wire
Pros - Standard OEM wire in Systema, Prometheus, and Tokyo Marui
- Very Strong insulation
- Super thin, 16awg teflon wire is thinner than any othe 16awg wire
- typically has silver coated copper conductor
- low resistance
- pretty stiff, routes easily through gearboxes and aeg bodies
Cons
- pretty stiff not as forgiving if you measure out the lengths wrong
- expensive

Silicone wire(deans wet noodle)
Pros - very low resistance
- very flexible
Cons
- very expensive
- silicone insulation tears very easily
- hard to solder
- extremely thick

Speaker wire

don't use it unless you have to.



Wire size
Wire size is typically measured in the American Wire Guage system. In this system the smaller the #, the larger the wire. The Guage is determined by the size of the CONDUCTOR only and not the overall size if the wire.

Most AEG's come with 18 or 16 AWG wire. 16awg wire is best for most AEGs since it handles 75 Amps. If you have room you may try 14awg but the benefit will be minimal.

Connectors

Tamiya(large and small)
These connectors suck censored2.gif. they are worn out after about 50 cycles of being put together and pulled apart.

They are also a huge source of resistance and allow a mere 15amps or so to pass through them

Deans Ultra plugs(T-connectors)

Last a long time and can handle alot of power as they are very low resistance.
Switch to these connectors right away!

typically 10 pairs can be had on ebay for $4!

To add deans plugs is simple.

*Cut off worthless Tamiya Plug (if this is the battery , be sure to only cut one lead at a time to avoid short circuit.)
You can also clamp the deans plug in a vice or clip to hold it while soldering at this time

Typically the battery uses the female end and the male end goes to the AEG harness


* Now pretin each of the deans plug terminals. Do this by adding a bubble of solder to each of the terminal tabs.


*Next put a piece of heatshrink on each wire to be soldered. Then attach the + wire to the vertical tab, and the - wire to the horizontal tab.

Should look like this.


Then heat the shrink tubing to cover the exposed terminals!!

The video shows how to do this as well.

Tools


-soldering iron/irons
-wirestrippers
-heatsink
-voltmeter
-wet cellulose sponge
-sandpaper
-flux
-helping hand tool
-heat gun
-glue gun
-pliers

Edited by GoLgo 13, 20 March 2008 - 06:04 PM.

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#2 GoLgo 13

GoLgo 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Osan, South Korea

Posted 20 March 2008 - 05:37 AM

Capacitor BAnks

Capacitor banks Can improve your trigger response and rate of fire.

Electrolytic Capacitors store energy and release it on demand. This will fill in voltage drops seen when you initially pull the trigger, and when the AEG is cycling through some shots.

When the voltage drops, the capacitor releases its stored energy and helps smooth out the current. once the voltage drop is gone, the capacitors fill up once again.

The improvement is nominal though, and to get a noticable difference you need a pretty large bank. Not all AEG's have room for this so keep that in mind.

If you can fit them in though, there really is no disadvantage to using them.


to install a capacitor bank is simple. Just find a suitable location for them, and solder them in paralell into your aeg wire system.

They are polarized so get the +/- correct. The (-) side is shown by having a stripe running down the cap one one side

I usually make my capacitor banks removable so I can switch them from gun to gun.

You can buy capacitors at radio shack or from an online store or in old unused electrical devices such as disposable flash cameras.

here is a schematic


FUSES
Fuses come stock in most AEG's. They heat up and break teh circuit when there is an over load of current. I typically don't run any fuses in my AEG's since I can rewire one on 15 minutes. but if you are concerned about your setup, here are some fuses.

glass or plastic automotive fuses

these are found in most stock AEG's. when they trip, you just pop in a replacement.


polyfuses(resettable)

These fuses gradually expand when heated to the point where they no longer conduct electricity. Once the current is removed, the contract and cool to the point where current can flow again. Once they trip however, they are tripped again very easily unless given sufficient amount of time to cool.

Glass fuse and a Polyfuse


Motor connectors

There are three main options here.

good
standard motor connectors - not the best because of high resistance.

better
gold plated motor connectors - allow more contact between connector
and motor tab which decreases resistance

Best
Solder wire directly to motor tab- best option but must desolder every time motor is removed(sux for ver2 GB owners)

Edited by GoLgo 13, 20 March 2008 - 07:53 PM.

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#3 GoLgo 13

GoLgo 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Osan, South Korea

Posted 20 March 2008 - 05:37 AM

Mosfets
A mosfet is a switching transistor that can handle high loads and carries very little internal resistance. There are many benefits to using these and there are really no drawbacks to using them.

-They can do these great things...
- increase ROF
- Allow use of higher voltage batteries
- save your trigger contacts from ever burning up
- increase trigger response
- increase overall efficiency of your electrical system

It is really easy to make one if you have some soldering skills. (watch the video for some soldering tips.)

Here is a good soldering guide that I had nothing to do with making...
http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/solder.htm

Here is what you need to make the Mosfet unit itself...
100ohm resistor
20-30k ohm resistor
suitable mosfet ( I always use IRL1404z)


You may also want to find plenty of heatshrink tube in various sizes and the wire that you are going to use for the motor and for the gate wires.


The Mosfet has three pins. Gate , Drain , and source.(see first picture)

You need to put the 100 ohm resistor on the gate pin, and the 20-30k ohm resistor(pull down resistor) between the gate and source pins.

I like to cover the mosfets heatsink with heatshink tubing. I do this because the heatsink has the same electrical value as the drain pin, and I don't want anything to short out by touching it.

I also cover the pulldown resistor.


First I attach the pull down resistor...

and then the gate resistor ...


After that you are good to get started. rewiring. First you must desolder the trigger contacts and attach the gate wires. I typically use the small wires found inside of ethernet cable.

Desolder each trigger contact and attach a gate wire to each of the trigger contact tabs. it should look like this.



then you can add new wires that go straight from the battery to the motor.


No all you need to do is find a spot to put the mosfet. When you find it, clip the negative wire in half and take the side that runs to the motor. attach this side to the center pin of the mosfet(drain pin)

then attach the other end of the negative wire, the one that goes to the battery, to the outer "source" pin.

Then finally attach one gate wire to the gate resistor on the mosfet, and the other gate wire needs to be spliced somewhere into the positive wire.

Bam you have a mosfet system!

P.s. quick pictographic diagram



Wait what about active braking?!?!?
Ok that's easy too. All you need to do is add a p-channel mosfet.

The benefit of active braking, is that the motor will "brake" or stop as soon as you let off the trigger.
This helps the piston stay forward and avoid putting stress on the gears and such . It also makes for an amazingly crispy trigger pull.

The guys at www.airsoftmechanics.com pioneered all of this, and made up schematics for us to use! Props to Gandolf(Terry) and PsypherVII.

There are many ways, even some better ways to do this. But here is how I do it, and it works.

Here is a n-channel and P-channel mosfet. I start by glueing them together back to back.

here it is...

Then I bend the P-channel's gate pin to meet up with the N-channels gate pin.



Then I bend both drain pins(center pin) together and solder them as well...



then I add the pull down resistor between the n-channel's gate and source pin as usual.


and finally add the gate resistor(100ohm) to the N-channel mosfet's gate pin.


Now You simply wire this in the same as you would a standard mosfet. The only difference is, you need to take the p-channel mosfet's source pin, and splice it into the positive wire.

Here are some active braking mosfets in various stages of development...


Also here is a video Guide on how to rewire an AEG with a mosfet...!

*** VIDEO ***


WHERE TO GET PARTS!
www.digi-key.com
n-channel mosfet search part # IRL1404ZPBF-ND
p-channel mosfet search part # SPP80P06PIN-ND
polyfuses'
MF-RHT650-ND(use two in paralell)
MF-RHT750-ND(use two in paralell)

Radioshack and Fry's have resistors and capacitors of all kinds as well as digikey

Ebay has all kinds of parts and wire! Use it ! Don't be scared!

references
-www.airsoftmechanics.com
-www.digi-key.com

Edited by GoLgo 13, 20 March 2008 - 11:31 AM.

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#4

Posted 20 March 2008 - 08:04 AM

Wow definately pin worthy, now I can make my own. good work! I have a quick question but its in no relation to the guide, what type of grease do you personally use on your gearboxes?

Edited by xsboredom, 20 March 2008 - 08:42 AM.

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#5 GoLgo 13

GoLgo 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Osan, South Korea

Posted 20 March 2008 - 10:27 AM

Teflon grease on gears and tappet. Silicone grease on air seal parts. When teflon grease isnt around I use R/c green goop or white lithium.

P.s. quick pictographic diagram


Edited by GoLgo 13, 20 March 2008 - 10:35 AM.

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#6 mishapman

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 11:44 AM

CONCUR. Definitely pin meat! Great write up!

QUOTE (xsboredom @ Mar 20 2008, 07:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wow definately pin worthy, now I can make my own. good work! I have a quick question but its in no relation to the guide, what type of grease do you personally use on your gearboxes?

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#7

Posted 20 March 2008 - 03:56 PM

QUOTE (GoLgo 13 @ Mar 20 2008, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Teflon grease on gears and tappet. Silicone grease on air seal parts. When teflon grease isnt around I use R/c green goop or white lithium.

P.s. quick pictographic diagram


ah I see. is teflon grease better? What brand is it or where can I buy it?

Thanks

Edited by xsboredom, 20 March 2008 - 04:19 PM.

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#8 OpSic66

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  • Location:sillicon valley, CA

Posted 20 March 2008 - 07:44 PM

Your schematic leaves a bit to the imagination *(only to me, I'm not used to seeing them layed out that way).

However, good work. Only 1 comment. Some of your soldering shots, the "close up" is pretty hazy. Overall good info though, and thanks!

Edited by OpSic66, 20 March 2008 - 07:47 PM.

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#9 GoLgo 13

GoLgo 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Osan, South Korea

Posted 20 March 2008 - 07:54 PM

I think you are right, I added a better one. Thanks for taking a look. forgive me I finished that thing at like 4 am lol
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#10 bat21win

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 08:07 PM

Good work. Pinned.
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#11 OpSic66

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  • Location:sillicon valley, CA

Posted 20 March 2008 - 08:13 PM

QUOTE (GoLgo 13 @ Mar 20 2008, 05:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think you are right, I added a better one. Thanks for taking a look. forgive me I finished that thing at like 4 am lol

Glad to see you didnt take my input negativly. To me the schematic just looked a bit wrong, however placement and wiring was correct. It just didn't "register in my head" correctly.

I also reported this topic, and said it was pin worthy. Good to see that bat21win agrees.
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#12 Leotheo

Leotheo
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Posted 20 March 2008 - 09:14 PM

So I pm'ed you and asked you about one of your AB mosfets, but after watching this video, I realized, was it totally worthless to get a Deep fire selector plate for my soon to be CA G36?
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#13 bat21win

bat21win
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wichita, Kansas
  • Interests:Airsoft, photography, computers

Posted 20 March 2008 - 09:21 PM

QUOTE (OpSic66 @ Mar 20 2008, 08:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Glad to see you didnt take my input negativly. To me the schematic just looked a bit wrong, however placement and wiring was correct. It just didn't "register in my head" correctly.

I also reported this topic, and said it was pin worthy. Good to see that bat21win agrees.

I spotted it this morning, and thought about pinning it then, but figured it'd get more traffic today if I didn't.
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#14 swifteagle1

swifteagle1

Posted 24 March 2008 - 06:18 PM

Your the man GoLgo 13.
Way to put a lot of pertinent information in one well written guide.

Wish I had this 8 months ago when I was finding out this info the hard way. a-salute.gif
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#15 mysticrider92

mysticrider92
  • Gender:Male

Posted 25 March 2008 - 07:13 PM

Wow, how come I managed to miss this for the 5 days it has been up? Very nice guide GoLgo!

I have a couple of questions/suggestions. First, if it isn't too much trouble, could you take a couple more pictures (different angles) of the active breaking MOSFET? I am interested in the design, but it is a little hard to visualize part of it.

Second, on the same active breaking design, is there any reason to not just solder the two heat sinks together on the FET's, and use that instead of the drain pin (just snip it off)? It is a ton easier to attach a wire to that massive hole than to a small (and easily broken) leg on the FET. Then it could be covered with the heat shrink in the same way, and would probably hold together a lot better.

Also, have you ever had over heating problems with the FET's in the shrink wrap? I did two using IRF1303 (bad choice), and they would stop working every 5 shots and have to cool down. My SW-Computer with the 1404 has never had the problem, but it is just wrapped in heat shrink tubing that still allows airflow over it.
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#16 GoLgo 13

GoLgo 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Osan, South Korea

Posted 25 March 2008 - 10:29 PM

I don't have any AB mosfets at the moment , but when I do, I'll snap some pix.

I tried to solder the heatsinks together, but I don't have a powerful enough iron to get it right. and If I did, I may damage the mosfets. I am not the greatest soldering guy. I am a novice at best, and am totally self tought on everything so my skills are weak.

That design is all my own and like I said, there is problably better ways to do it. But that way does in fact work a-salute.gif

Thanks for the input. if there is anything else that You guys want to see , let me know and I will try to accomadate you.

If any1 has anything to add, please do. a-grin.gif

Edited by GoLgo 13, 25 March 2008 - 10:35 PM.

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#17 mysticrider92

mysticrider92
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 March 2008 - 11:18 AM

QUOTE (GoLgo 13 @ Mar 25 2008, 11:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't have any AB mosfets at the moment , but when I do, I'll snap some pix.

I tried to solder the heatsinks together, but I don't have a powerful enough iron to get it right. and If I did, I may damage the mosfets. I am not the greatest soldering guy. I am a novice at best, and am totally self tought on everything so my skills are weak.


I was thinking about it (might have to order some P-channel FET's and try this).. What about clamping the two chips together, and sticking the wire through both holes. Then fill the rest of the space with a lead solder (low melting point and sticks better). That would effectively join the two heat sink pieces together, and provide a very easy in-line attachment for the negative motor wire to attach to. Then, once the whole thing is wrapped in heat shrink, you have an easy connection for electricity, mechanical, and heat dissipation.

I am not saying your design is bad or anything, I couldn't even understand the connection for AB anyway, much less build my own (I am pretty much self taught like you, and still have a lot to learn). Some of the stuff was easy enough to figure out, but there are not many guides to do this.

Also, from what Gandolf says (I have been talking with him on the Airsoft Mechanics forums), the IRL 1404 is really hard to destroy. So you shouldn't have to worry much when soldering it, but being careful with it never hurts.
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#18 OpSic66

OpSic66
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  • Location:sillicon valley, CA

Posted 26 March 2008 - 01:34 PM

QUOTE (GoLgo 13 @ Mar 25 2008, 08:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I tried to solder the heatsinks together, but I don't have a powerful enough iron to get it right. and If I did, I may damage the mosfets. I am not the greatest soldering guy. I am a novice at best, and am totally self tought on everything so my skills are weak.

I suggest NOT doing that. The heat may possibly damage the mosfet, and they have a screw hole to begin with. There is also a minimal possibilty of the mosfet getting so hot it will re-melt the solder.

I would recommend using a small machine screw, and locking nut. Along with heat transfer paste between the 2 mosfets.
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#19 wobuse

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 02:27 AM

Very nice guide.Excellent work.
I have just one little correction,for you.
When you refer to solid gauge wire you said...,
"handles more amperage than comparable gauge stranded wire"
This is simply not true.Stranded wire handles more amperage than solid,because,
electrons flow on the surface of the wire,not through it's center.Stranded wire has much more surface area than solid,so more current can flow.In fact;you can reduce one gauge down ,with stranded & still support the same amperage flow as one gauge up of solid.
Sorry for the correction,but this is an important fact.
Thanks ,again for your quality posts. a-salute.gif
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#20 Pain Redefind

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 05:33 PM

omgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgom
gomgomgomg
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#21 GoLgo 13

GoLgo 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Osan, South Korea

Posted 01 April 2008 - 09:20 PM

VIDEO Update! FULL VERSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2 videos
http://s7.photobucke...MOSFETPART1.flv
http://s7.photobucke...mosfetpart2.flv
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#22 swervin

swervin

Posted 06 April 2008 - 05:58 PM

Anybody know of a guide that show's how to build a three shot burst mosfet or where someone could buy a premade one?
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#23

Posted 06 April 2008 - 07:37 PM

QUOTE (swervin @ Apr 6 2008, 03:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Anybody know of a guide that show's how to build a three shot burst mosfet or where someone could buy a premade one?


extreme-fire.com
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#24 longbow371

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 01:07 PM

QUOTE (swervin @ Apr 6 2008, 05:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Anybody know of a guide that show's how to build a three shot burst mosfet or where someone could buy a premade one?

airsoft global
angel makes a 3rnd burst mosfet
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#25 Sepper

Sepper

Posted 07 May 2008 - 12:02 PM

Do they make special deans connector chargers, or could you just cut off the tamiya connector on the charger?
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#26 OpSic66

OpSic66
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Posted 07 May 2008 - 02:21 PM

QUOTE (Sepper @ May 7 2008, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do they make special deans connector chargers, or could you just cut off the tamiya connector on the charger?


I usually insert a WHOLE deans set inbetween the timaya plug and charger. That way I have a deans end for charging mine, and an adapter to charge timaya's.
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#27 GoLgo 13

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Posted 11 May 2008 - 08:59 AM




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#28 tekproxy

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 05:34 PM

Hey, great write up here mate. Thanks.

Nice name, too. Whenever I played X-Com I would always name my top two soldiers Gold and Silver from a Golgo movie.
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#29 aldave

aldave

Posted 20 July 2008 - 01:05 AM

do I have to use both the normal mofset and the active breaking one or is the active breaking one the normal+ the active breaking feaeture
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#30 TAMU_John

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Posted 22 July 2008 - 10:05 PM

QUOTE (aldave @ Jul 20 2008, 12:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
do I have to use both the normal mofset and the active breaking one or is the active breaking one the normal+ the active breaking feaeture

One or the other. If you read carefully, the AB MOSFET has a IR1404Z MOSFET built into it. It just has as p-channel MOSFET "piggybacking" on it.

Here's how to install an AB mosfet:

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#31 CQBsr47

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 03:24 AM

any guides or videos for p90 and aug?
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#32 kamizla

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 02:41 PM

how much rof will mosfet/rewiring add at the most to a jg mp5 with element speed kit, bank capacitor, 10.8v battery, and eg1000 motor?
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QUOTE (iloveco2 @ Apr 17 2009, 05:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
also don't know why it does this but if you have it on semi and you pull the trigger really slow, you can achieve burst AND control how long the burst is by how long you have the trigger pulled.

#33 Doctor Kajita

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 04:57 PM

This is a great guide! That being said, I don't think I would ever be able to do all the stuff you do, Golgo, but this is great reference.

Thanks for taking the time to post this.
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#34 McHammer

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 09:29 PM

Can I attach the two Drain pins with a 20awg silicone wire instead of bending them I feel like they are to close to the drain.
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#35 GoLgo 13

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 04:20 AM

Yes, or just solder/machine screw the heatsinks together and use it as a drain pin and cut your standard drain pins off.

>>Mike
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#36 McHammer

McHammer

Posted 29 October 2008 - 02:11 AM

Made the AB mosfet and it works GREAT thanks so much for this post.

Also can my gun handle a Lipo battery now?
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#37 OpSic66

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 11:59 AM

QUOTE (McHammer @ Oct 28 2008, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Made the AB mosfet and it works GREAT thanks so much for this post.

Also can my gun handle a Lipo battery now?


A gun tolerating a Li=Po has more to do with the gearbox, then the electrical system.




For those of you, who are interested in COMPLETELY re-wiring your gearbox, and building a "Dual Gate Wire" mosfet.
A Dual Gate Wire mosfet allows you to completely remove the wiring from the gearbox. Run 1 set of wires (of a much smaller gauge 20-22g is fine) to the trigger contacts. And the battery wires through the mosfet, and directly to the motor!

Here's a Schematic for you:

Edited by OpSic66, 15 November 2008 - 05:16 PM.

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#38 phoenix212

phoenix212

Posted 14 November 2008 - 10:46 AM

Ok, I might have missed it but where do you recommend buying deans and mosfet parts?
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#39 night4x

night4x

Posted 14 November 2008 - 08:31 PM

ok so I have a echo1 m4 and I destroyed the wiring and I was wondering if I could just use speaker wire for my gun. What do you think and how would I get the speaker wire working? How much would the sodering iron cost and what kind of sodering iron would I need?
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#40 OpSic66

OpSic66
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sillicon valley, CA

Posted 14 November 2008 - 08:37 PM

QUOTE (phoenix212 @ Nov 14 2008, 07:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ok, I might have missed it but where do you recommend buying deans and mosfet parts?


Deans are usually found at your local hobby shop if you only need a couple of them. If you need a good amount of them, look on ebay. As for Mosfet's www.digikey.com is the best place to source them from.


QUOTE (night4x @ Nov 14 2008, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ok so I have a echo1 m4 and I destroyed the wiring and I was wondering if I could just use speaker wire for my gun. What do you think and how would I get the speaker wire working? How much would the sodering iron cost and what kind of sodering iron would I need?


Bad idea. While speaker wire still meets the ANSI standards for it's gauge and material. I don't recommend it, since its insulation is usually thicker, and not as great as other forms of wire, when it comes to the insulation dealing with heat. Not to mention the flexability of it, is not that great.

What you should be looking for is a good gauge wire (I recommend 16g), and silicone insulation, if you can find it. It'll be more expensive then speaker wire, but it will work better and be safer in the long run.
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