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D-Day - What if...


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28 replies to this topic

#1 Delta_SniperSV

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 11:42 AM

This has been a question that has crossed my mind. What do you think the result of D-Day would have been if Erwin Rommel had gained control of the Panzer divisions and was alowed to use them according to how he wanted to. Also if he was present in France on D-Day. I think it might have been a very different battle.

#2 silenthunter

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 02:06 PM

yea erwin would have took control in my mind, when d-day occured their was few to no panzers on the front line (comparied to their regular divisions) and the natzies woulda took over most definatly if they had more tanks.
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#3 Delta_SniperSV

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 02:10 PM

I think that it would have been MUCH more difficult for the Allies to establish a Beachhead against the NAZIs and possibly would have been driven to retreat.

#4 Omaha

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 02:37 PM

Honestly, the allies would have taken the beach head about mid day and would have pushed on to the flooded areas, but after atempting to take caratan the allies would have met 3 Panzer divisions and roughly two division of suport troops. Easily the allies woould have been pushed back in to the sea. Then the Nazi's could double back and head south, and sopport the divisions fighting in Italy. The reserve troops used in the wastern part of France and additional troops would have been pulled off the atlantic wall and pushed the allies out of Italy. This would have also sealed the fate of the russians becuase the only reason they won the war was due to the second front. although roughly 1 year later 1945 the nuklear weapon would be complete but I don't like Hitler would have waited that long to gain air speariority and the luffwafa would have made a bombing extremly difficult. The summer of 1945 easily would have brought on the invasion of England and the fall of it. And althought the first few attempts would fail, if I would have been Hitler in say 1948-1950 I would invade America from ..Mexico, and I can't say what would have happened. The Japs would probably still be fighting and the deal would would be sealed. "Our only chance of stopping the Allies will be at the beaches" Rommel he knew this years in advance, thank almighty /THOU SHALT NOT USE MY NAME IN VAIN/ Hitler was an incompatent ba.stard


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#5 Delta_SniperSV

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 02:54 PM

I do not belive that supporting the troups in Italy would be that much of a priority as of D-Day. Allies were quickly gaining to the Capital and were really close. The Axis troops were surendering very quickly and it was bassicly a lost cause there. They of course need to keep France fortified, butr still need to worry about the Eastern front which I think is the biggest threat to the Axis. Not only does it head straight for Germany (excluding Poland) it now leaves them vulnerable, so they should be more concerned about the USSR. The Allies would temporarily be out of commision, so I think that would be their new priority.

#6 DoorsOfPerception

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 03:08 PM

You could also pose this question. What if the Allies had had better weather and their swimming tanks hadn't of sunk?
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#7 fatstalin

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 03:41 PM

QUOTE
This has been a question that has crossed my mind. What do you think the result of D-Day would have been if Erwin Rommel had gained control of the Panzer divisions and was alowed to use them according to how he wanted to. Also if he was present in France on D-Day. I think it might have been a very different battle



Erwin Rommel was in charge of the Atlantic Wall at the time of the D-Day Invasion. The thing was however that Rommel knew the war was lost for Germany and if the Atlantic Wall held, they could negotiate terms of surrender with the allies, thuse preversing Nazi Germany.

So if we didnt claim victory in France, most of central Europe and Germany itself would be under control of a Nazi Empire.
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#8 Capoeira Master

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 04:05 PM

Those BT Ships basicly turned the tide for the D-Day assault on the beaches, while the skies, yet was a huge mess...caused a confusion in the german ranks...a good thing in the end...-N.W.-OZAKA KINGS/TEAM R&R
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#9 ken3211

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 06:41 PM

It wouldn't had matterd if Rommel was there or not. He wasnt given the resources he wanted anyway, so he might as well had went on vacation. Unless you are saying what if Rommel was given what he wanted......Then it would have been the worst single day in world history. And definatly, we would have lost way more than 20% of the Invasion force.

#10 Delta_SniperSV

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 07:30 PM

Rommel was a great commander and could act in a moments time, I think he would have been a definent asset to the force.

#11 Omaha

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 07:43 PM

Yes you are right, the only other commander that exceeded his billiance was "old blood and guts" Paton.


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#12 fatstalin

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 07:53 PM

Bradley and McArthur are up there to. Monty was a complete idiot and the only reason he won at El Almien was the fact he had the advantage of an Airforce and the fact he had 10 times as many supplies as Rommel.
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#13 Delta_SniperSV

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 07:55 PM

McAurthor was amazing and rezilient, arogant, but amazing. Did you know he almost ran for president! I'll tell you, he had a lot of support.

#14 Omaha

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Posted 10 June 2004 - 12:09 AM

Eisenhower (when he was president) didn't like him too much I guess old WW2 antimosity, but that is why he was taken off the Korean project in the 50's


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#15 lloydkristmas

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Posted 10 June 2004 - 12:15 AM

I know this is random, but it kinda has to do with that "what if..." question. I saw that movie "The Alamo" a few weeks ago. It was crappy, but thats a different story. I was just imagining this scenario: What if a small squad of approx. 12 Delta Operatives were "sent back in time"....don't laugh...to defend the Alamo alongside the fighters that were already there, could they have held off the enemy? (I am assuming that all the Deltas would be equipped with modern guns and ammunition)
What do you guys think?............Wow, I just looked back at what I just wrote, and I just realized how dumb and random it was. Oh well.
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#16 Omaha

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Posted 10 June 2004 - 12:30 AM

The mexicans would have been running across the boarder towards Mexico instead of like today. :D But yea you are right that was easily the dumbest thing I have heard all day


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#17 lloydkristmas

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Posted 10 June 2004 - 12:33 AM

Hehe, I know its stupid, but I don't care. I am so tired, and Im not thinking straight. Oh well
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#18 Psycho Evangelion

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Posted 10 June 2004 - 01:47 AM

McArthur was amazingly stupid in Korea. He wanted to push into China...Incredibly stupid thought.
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#19 Panzer

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Posted 10 June 2004 - 02:30 AM

QUOTE
Originally posted by Omaha@Jun 9 2004, 02:37 PM
thank almighty /THOU SHALT NOT USE MY NAME IN VAIN/ Hitler was an incompatent ba.stard

Ah, not incompetant but impatiant and greedy.Impatiant probably due to his deteriorating health and wanting to see the Fatherland rule the world. Stalin was the incompetant one.
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#20 norseman

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Posted 10 June 2004 - 11:42 AM

QUOTE
McArthur was amazingly stupid in Korea. He wanted to push into China...Incredibly stupid thought.



No, that was not a stupid idea at all. Iam still convinced we are going to have to face off against China someday. And each day they grow stronger, and I think we grow weaker. In the Korean War, they did not have any nuclear capabilities nor Missle technology, now thanks to us and russia they have both.

#21 Delta_SniperSV

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Posted 10 June 2004 - 12:57 PM

QUOTE
Originally posted by Psycho Evangelion@Jun 10 2004, 06:47 AM
McArthur was amazingly stupid in Korea.  He wanted to push into China...Incredibly stupid thought.

Invading Korea Over the 38th parrallel was perhaps one of the greatest desicions made in modern combat. Now we didn't have to push up, but pince are oponent. He didn't want to exactly invade china, but nuke the hell out of them first. He was determined, and perhaps to much which is what got him fired. Hey, Eisenhower had to do it.

#22 Omaha

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Posted 10 June 2004 - 01:10 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Panzer+Jun 10 2004, 02:30 AM-->
QUOTE (Panzer <AT> Jun 10 2004, 02:30 AM)


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#23 Omaha

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Posted 10 June 2004 - 01:12 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Delta_SniperSV+Jun 10 2004, 12:57 PM-->
QUOTE (Delta_SniperSV <AT> Jun 10 2004, 12:57 PM)


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#24 fatstalin

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Posted 10 June 2004 - 05:57 PM

Then Truman had enough of him and he relived McArthur of Duty. McArthur was replaced by James Van Fleet, and later Mark Clark who was another genius.
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#25 Psycho Evangelion

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Posted 10 June 2004 - 06:27 PM

QUOTE
Originally posted by norseman@Jun 10 2004, 09:42 AM
QUOTE
McArthur was amazingly stupid in Korea. He wanted to push into China...Incredibly stupid thought.



No, that was not a stupid idea at all. Iam still convinced we are going to have to face off against China someday. And each day they grow stronger, and I think we grow weaker. In the Korean War, they did not have any nuclear capabilities nor Missle technology, now thanks to us and russia they have both.

considering that China pushed American soldiers back to the original boundary between north and south korea, I don't think it would have been smart at all. And face off, now? Ridiculous. Both country's employ very capitalist economies, and we depend on each other for many goods and income.
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#26 redor

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Posted 10 June 2004 - 06:36 PM

im not an expert on dday or anything, I actually don't know much about it,but didnt we have control of the skies in normandy? I think they would of ran into the tanks, then we would call in anti tank bombers and regular bombers and bound the **** out of the german lines. then slowly advance.


the only reason we didnt win the battle of the bulge quicker is that the weather was horrible for aircraft and that is why the tanks were able to advance into the allied lines. as soon as the weather was better and pattons army broke through,well the rest is history
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#27 Omaha

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Posted 10 June 2004 - 06:42 PM

QUOTE
Originally posted by redor@Jun 10 2004, 06:36 PM
im not an expert on dday or anything, I actually don't know much about it,but  didnt we have control of the skies in normandy? I think they would of ran into the tanks, then we would call in anti tank bombers and regular bombers and bound the **** out of the german lines. then slowly advance.


the only reason we didnt win the battle of the bulge quicker is that the weather was horrible for aircraft and that is why the tanks were able to advance into the allied lines. as soon as the weather was better and pattons army broke through,well the rest is history

for one there is no way aircraft would be able to take out 3-5 whole tank divisions, besides it would take less than a week to turn the allied infantry around and back into the sea. And for two the battle of the bulge was mostly an infantry advance, althought the whether did help the kruats a lot.


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#28 fatstalin

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Posted 10 June 2004 - 07:10 PM

Yes we had complete air superiority over France, since all of Nazi fighters were in Germany, defending against B-17 Bomber Raids. But as Omaha said, you cant win a war with planes.

Theres an old joke in NATO about two Russian Tank Commanders who bumped into each other near Paris. After some brief talking one of them asks: " By the way do you know who one the air war?"
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#29 Delta_SniperSV

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Posted 10 June 2004 - 07:42 PM

We did severly bomb German Forces before D-Day, but we had to land at the time we did because the tide was perfect enought to wear the ships would get stalled by underwater traps at bassicly land. Than the soldiers could walk up the relatively low waters. It would be weeks untill we could do this again and it had to be supriseing to catch them off guard. Perfect during the storm.




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