Jump to content



to add your 300x250 banner, pay ad zone 5
Airsoft Atlanta is your source for quality airsoft guns and rifle parts
to add your Text Link here, pay ad zone 3

AirsoftAtlanta.com AirsoftNMore.com Airsplat.com AirsoftRC.com
Vote for us to add your 180x30 banner here, pay ad zone 2

If you appreciate this website, please ASF Donation or Check Out the ASF Store. If you can not help us financially,
then at least help us by telling a friend: Share us on your favorite social networking website Bookmark and Share

Important Announcement!

Our Pinzgauer Project is in "Pre Launch" - Click Here to let us know what you think before the project goes live.

Photo
* * * * * 2 votes

Tanio Koba Twist Rifled Barrels


  • Please log in to reply
71 replies to this topic

#1 Skyi///

Skyi///
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cardbard box

Posted 24 April 2009 - 10:39 PM

After reading MANY topics discussing the effectiveness of these barrels as null, I decided to look into it more.

I have compiled "a few" quotes, testimonies and tests on them to save space on my bookmarks and your time searching.
If you are the original author of a quote please tell me and I will give you credit, or ask if you want it removed.

Any more information, pictures/video of tests with different guns, power levels and other variables will be HIGHLY appreciated. a-famerican.gif shh, Im Canadian...

I am very convinced these barrels work at their recommended energy levels, I will update when I get my 1j spring and tk barrel for my vsr clone (In a few months unfortunately, being 14 has it's drawbacks)
I will provide a video as well as pictures, I have my stock performance already documented.


Now, if you have been wondering, how do these things work?

Let's have ryanm from airsoft retreat explain.
QUOTE
I recently posted about this in another thread, and have visual aids.

All bbs bounce in the barrel, regardless of fps, regardless of the barrel. The TK barrel attempts to control the bounce path of the bb using the channels of air to push the bb towards specific bounce points. Making the bounce path predictable and reducing the number of possible exit paths makes it more consistent. For example:

As you can see, even small changes in velocity affect the bounce path through the barrel, and no gun shoots the same fps every time. This is reduced by the use of a tighter bore, where the possible exit paths of the bb are reduced to a narrower cone. As you can see in the lower half of the illustration, a standard smoothbore allows a bb to bounce seemingly randomly, allowing an unlimited number of exit paths. The TK twist barrel attempts to reduce the number of possible exit paths, by "encouraging" the bounce path to converge, leaving only 6 possible exit paths. A smaller number of possible exit paths mean a more consistent shot, and consistency is accuracy.

The TK Twist barrel uses rifling to allow air to move past the bb at a faster rate within small channels. These channels of air produce a barrier, which push the bb when it tries to enter them. The reason higher fps doesn't work is because at certain energies, the force of the bb is greater than the force of the channel of air, so the bb pushes through the air channel and bounces wherever it wants. When you do that, you not only lose the benefits of the TK Twist barrel, it's worse because the construction of the surface of the inner barrel allows for even more random bounces than a smoothbore, so accuracy would actually be worse than a smoothbore of the same inner diameter (and construction quality).

Within the recommended energy range, the TK Twist is supposed to work very well, but there is absolutely no reason to even consider one if you intend to go over the max recommended fps.

All of the above illustrations are both simplified and exaggerated in order to make the effects being described more apparent.

HTH, ryanm


Here's a well known testimony by a respected airsoft Canada mod.
QUOTE
After years of hearing and reading endless debates about Tanio Koba Twist inner barrels, and after years of hunting for them, I've finally acquired a couple of them in various lengths for various guns from AEGs to GBBs.

Here are my initial findings:

These inner barrels shoot STRAIGHT. They have an extremely predictable, flat and straight flight trajectory. Where standard hop up will cause the BB to gently curve up before dropping, TWIST (or cyclone) inner barrels will cause the BB to go extremely straight for an even further effective range before dropping.

To set a clear and definitive answer for all the debates that have floated on the internet for years:

Q1. "How is it physically possible to have a rifled barrel impart a spin on the BB and combine it with the Magnus effect of the hop-up? It is two totally different axes of rotation!"
A1. Actually, the barrel ISN'T "rifled" in the standard sense of a real gun. Yes, the inner barrel has spiral rifling grooves in it, but the BB does NOT touch the groove. The purpose of the TWIST inner barrel is not to put a rifling spin on the BB. It is to put a "cyclone" of air around the BB, to help float it through the inner barrel and PREVENT the BB from touching the side walls of the inner barrel at all. The result of this is higher accuracy, more predictable trajectory and greater effective range.

Q2. "I've heard about power requirements for these inner barrels. Details?"
A2. What you've heard is true. The twist inside these inner barrels are optimized for guns that shoot NO MORE than 1 Joule or 330fps with 0.20g BBs. Some internet debates claim that if you have a higher powered gun, all you need to do is use heavier BBs to slow down the velocity of the shot. NOT TRUE. The air moving around the BB will still be beyond 1 Joule and it will affect the shot trajectory.

Q3. "What happens beyond 1 Joule or 330fps with 0.20g BBs?"
A3. Up to 330fps, the results of the shot and even the shots dropoff are very predictable, accurate and flat. Groupings remain tight with very little spread. However, once the velocity of the shot begins to exceed that limit, the shot starts to become unpredictable with increased spread. The higher the velocity, the greater the perceived spread.

Q4. "So how accurate are these inner barrels compared to other brands such as Prometheus, KM TN or Systema?"
A4. At this time, I have not done any quantitative comparitive range testing to get accuracy results. When used within its optimized power range, I can outright say that these inner barrels have a MUCH straighter trajectory, greater effective range and a generally much more predictive flight path than any other barrel I've used before.

There is a project underway for an indoor range test to compare various lengths of these barrels against other barrels at different power ratings (stock, 1Joule and 400+fps).

How do I like these inner barrels? I love them. I wish they worked well at 400fps. At 360fps, they are still very acceptable and I will take that in to consideration when using them in some of my guns.
But for now, I am FOR SURE putting these inner barrels into all my pistols and low powered AEGs.



Here's a pm from Killershot, also on airsoft retreat.
QUOTE
Range is very nice but if you want to reach out to 200 feet (it is possible, I've done some research and asked around) you'll need to be prepared to take a nice lob shot. Accuracy is awesome for me but I will also give credit to my Firefly soft.. many people are against the Firefly soft since it seems to be a hit/miss thing.. you either get a good one or a bad one and I took the gamble and I got a good one.. the reason I did that was also from asking around the Firefly seems to work best with the TK Twist (assuming you got a good one of course) but if you don't want to gamble go for the Nineball. Both Firefly and Nineball can be purchased at TrinityAirsoft and the Firefly soft can also be purchased at AirsoftGI. Make sure you get the VSR/Pistol version.

If you're curious my setup is: BAR-10, TK Twist, Firefly Soft, Laylax Pro Cylinder Head, Laylax SP100 spring. I've only sat down to test groupings in my backyard which is fairly small, measured to be around 75 feet from where I tested it to the target and my groupings were around 0.5" to 1".. 2 hitting practically the exact same spot.
Hope this helps, tell me how yours works out.


A pm from Mj23lj, on asr.
QUOTE
Well I've upgraded everything apart from the Teflon Cylinder at the moment in my TM VSR.

I'm getting 210'+ chest size with .28/30g's (sits consistently on 311 with .28's and 308 with .30's)- so considering (like you know) it's around 330fps with .20g's, I am VERY impressed.

I have noticed however, obviously, it is REALLY effected by ANY wind.

Hope that's what you were looking for,

Thanks,

Alex (mj23lj)


An unknown asr member. (Skruface?)
QUOTE
For what it's worth, by buddies' TK-barreled
and moderately tuned TM M14 has almost as much
range and better accuracy than my propane-powered and
highly tuned Tanaka M700 AICS (Pre ban, KM inner barrel,
mags upgraded with Pax Armatenia and King Arms parts).
His gun shoots 335....mine shoots 585-ish.


Another unknown (asr)
QUOTE
Skruface, thank you.
You are right I have a TK, and I'm not selling it.
They do work if properly tuned. I managed to hit my brother
at about 200 ft in the head. I haven't been able to pull off a shot
like that with my tightbore yet. So, if I PM you Skruface
would you help me with mine?



The Crimson Falcon.
QUOTE
Tcf
You'll actually need to downgrade the spring to use a TK twist. That being said, if you install an M110 or M100 and use a TK twist, you'll probably get very good performance. The bolt pull on the stock gun or downgraded gun is really easy. I'm also left handed, and it's not too challenging.


A (maybe exaggerated a bit?) quote from a airsoft forum member.
QUOTE
This topic is just frustrating to discuss anymore, I've installed and tweaked over 10 guns now with tanio koba twist barrels, and they do work, for anywhere upto 1 joule. We have a couple of stock AK47su's (gauder su kits) ak's that outrange and are more accurate then 400fps m4's with tightbores.



Test results from Von Luck, asf.

QUOTE
Bravo! My goodness!!

I like data like this. Thank you for putting so much time and effort for such labor-intensive work! I sure do appreciate it. I like applying meanings to numbers like these. I am also glad that it also seems to prove that using heavier BBs improves, as much as using tight bores.

When I measure groupings, I measure the two shots that are farthest apart. That way, I get the widest possible reading. I can let myself think, "well it's 7 inches high, but width is only 2 inches, so it's as good as average 4.5 inches." If I conclude that that grouping is 4.5 inches (average of 2" and 7"), and shoot a target with a margine of error of 5 inches, the shot might land at 6 inch, and 7 inch line. I would miss my target.

Your grouping measures horizontal and vertical. For the simplications I looked at the biggest number and also averaged horizontal and vertical measurements.

By looking at the biggest numbers (either of horizontal or vertical) at 100 feet, and averages using 0.25g:

[1] TK Twist barrel 363mm x 6.04mm = 6.75" [5.687" Horizontal and vertical averaged]
[2] KM teflon 407mm x 6.04mm = 9" [8.625" H & V averaged]
[3] Prometheus 363 x 6.03mm = 9.5" (0.28g) [7.25" H & V avaraged]
[4] KM 300mm x 6.04mm =12.75" [10.125" H & V averaged]

This result is the same, TK comes on top, even if you take the average of horizontal and vertical, instead of taking the biggest number (althouth Prometheus becomes #2-but remember Prometheus used heaveier 0.28g BBs).

Aside from TK twist barrel, the longer the barrel, the more accurate it seems. Promotheus is a bit of disappointment since its 50' test was the better than TK. 9.5 inches seem a bit high, considering how tight 50' groupings were. If you think about it, how could a 2.85 inch grouping at 50 feet, becomes 9.5 inches at 100? I think it should be more like 8 inches, as average shows. It wouldn't change the fact that TK did best though. One way that might help is to discredit one shot that's farthest out of the group of shots. If you do that, Prometheus would come second and KT 407mm would be the third. But still, TK would be on top and the shortest KM 300mm would be still the last.

I hear TK barrel is supposed to work best for 1 Joule set-up, so 140 spring is probably over the top as it's about 1.3 joule. One of the links suggested that slowing down the fps by using heavier BBs does not seem to work with TK barrel. That link's conclusion was to have 1 Joule setting. Obviously I do not know if that's true or not. I don't have a TK barrel.

From your painstaking tests (thank you again), it seems like TK works pretty good, even for a 1.3 joule rifle. I mean, if you average horizontal and vertical measurements, CA stock's 50' 0.2g test and Km 300mm's 50' 0.2g test is little worse than TK 100 feet 0.25g test. Granted that TK's 100 feet test is with heavier 0.25g, but still, TK's 100' grouping is narrower than other barrel's 50' groupings?

Also compared to other 100 feet test's averages, TK barrel did almost 2 inches better (about 1.6 inch) than the second best. The second best, Prometheus used 0.28g, and it has 0.01mm tighter bore. TK did almost 3 inches tighter against longer 407mm barrel. This result still stands even if you don't include one of the wildest shots from each target.

Looking at the numbers you got, I am very impressed by TK twist barrel. It did better than longer barrel of same tightness. It did better than tighter barrel of same length. And it did better than even heavier BBs.

I am very impressed by the TK twist barrel.




KingKrispy21, ASF
QUOTE
You would get the most range out of a TK twist barrel.. im estimating at least 200 feet (no kidding, with 250 FPS, this is a very generous estimate with a TK)

also, the grooves will be fine if you shorten it.

why don't you just upgrade the spring, and get your FPS to at least 320?



Kyguylal, ASF
QUOTE
I had a VSR shooting 330 fps with a TK twist barrel. I got 250 foot body shots consistantly. The Barrel does not make the BB spin. It just puts a cushion of air around the BB, so it does not bounce around the barrel or "ride" the top of the barrel like with a normal tightbore.


more kyguylal
QUOTE
I used .30 BBs and a very nive hopup
like a 9ball hopup and .30s with the TK twist got me rediculously good results
so my BBs were only hitting at like 290fps with the ,30s



Whorify, ASF
QUOTE
The TK barrel was originally designed or rumored to be a fluke design for standard stock AEG's. At the time, most AEGs on the market were 300'ish FPS. It’s best used for 310-330 FPS. Anything higher just loses FPS. I dropped a TK barrel into one of my 400 FPS AEG's and it began to chrono 370 FPS and lost accuracy cause the air passing thru the flutes was too fast and violent.


http://www.airsoftre...php?photo=24796
Picture of mj23lj's gspec

Thanks to all who contributed, will contribute, DM Hackle, Tux, ASF, ASR, ASC and Tanio Koba.

You shouldn't credit me for any of this, except for compiling it.
At least not until I get my actual beloved barrel I don't even have yet.
http://www.airsoftfo...gs-t146520.html About me.

Edited by Skyi///, 25 April 2009 - 03:19 PM.

  • 0
http://www.airsoftfo...-B-t147334.html
Tanio Koba Twist barrel info

Do not play backyard Airsoft! It threatens the hobby, it threatens your life.

#2 DM Hackle

DM Hackle
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kennesaw, Georgia
  • Interests:Airsoft

Posted 24 April 2009 - 10:45 PM

very nice, pinned
as he said before, any additional info about tk twist barrels is greatly appreciated.

Edited by DM Hackle, 24 April 2009 - 10:46 PM.

  • 0

Just so everyone is clear, polymer is just a fancy name for plastic.

#3 ddombrock2009

ddombrock2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Burnsville, MN

Posted 28 April 2009 - 08:53 AM

Found a site that sells them, unfortunately theyre currently out of stock on the M16 length barrels

Tanio Koba Hop Twist Barrel for M4A1/SIG551/SR L-364 (363mm)

Tanio Koba Hop Twist Barrel for M16 (509mm)

Edited by ddombrock2009, 28 April 2009 - 08:54 AM.

  • 0
Guns don't kill people. The proper application of sight alignment, sight picture, and trigger control kills people.


props to KOPER for the sig seen above!

#4 Tux

Tux
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Georgia
  • Interests:Airsoft, The Art of Being a Sniper, Field Craft, Precision Shooting, Computers, Networking

Posted 28 April 2009 - 12:01 PM

http://poweredgeusa.com/

They have just about every type.
  • 0

#5 ddombrock2009

ddombrock2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Burnsville, MN

Posted 28 April 2009 - 05:40 PM

Awesome Tux, thanks. Now I have another site for my "library"
  • 0
Guns don't kill people. The proper application of sight alignment, sight picture, and trigger control kills people.


props to KOPER for the sig seen above!

#6 hightower

hightower

    Camaro>Airsoft=no more airsoft for me

  • Moderator
  • 2,186 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GA
  • Interests:Airsoft, Hunting, Fishing, Marksmanship (to me, that means shooting a bolt action rifle, with iron sights), training my Bird Dog

Posted 01 May 2009 - 11:18 AM

A+++++
I will do a test on my stock TM P90 barrel vs. my TK M733 length barrel (only an inch or so in length difference).
  • 0
I like to drive.


#7 osu5312

osu5312
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Senecaville OH.

Posted 02 May 2009 - 06:23 AM

Dude,this needs pinned.
  • 0
READ THIS BEFORE YOU MAKE ANTOHER TOPIC ABOUT WHY TM IS SO GOOD.
QUOTE (M249Dude @ Sep 13 2009, 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
so based on what ur saying, echo 1 didnt build their own P90? they bought it from another company and magically molded their trades onto the metal body so cleanly?

#8 Skyi///

Skyi///
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cardbard box

Posted 02 May 2009 - 01:32 PM

Thank you, but it already is!

:p

Here's another quote.
9Battousai, asr
QUOTE
BARREL:
I've tested JG stock, TM stock, G&G stock, Madbull, DBC, EdGI, PDI, TK, and Prometheus. My money rests firmly on EdGI, with PDI and TK taking close seconds. For accuracy, I'd say TK but the 1j limit hurts its potential in sniping.


Edited by Skyi///, 02 May 2009 - 02:42 PM.

  • 0
http://www.airsoftfo...-B-t147334.html
Tanio Koba Twist barrel info

Do not play backyard Airsoft! It threatens the hobby, it threatens your life.

#9 fenderbender633

fenderbender633
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York

Posted 03 May 2009 - 08:24 PM

I wanna get tk barrels for all my guns, but if the fps can only be 330, than how will anyone feel the bb??? a-confused.gif
  • 0

War does not determine who is right - only who is left. I AM LEFT!!! FTW!!!!

Current Primary: ICS M4 or G&G L85 A2 or Well L96
Current Secondary: Tokyo Marui MP7 or WE 1911 or UTG Multishot M3

#10 DutchManDan

DutchManDan
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago, Illinois
  • Interests:Airsoft<br />Playing Guitar<br />Swimming<br />Lacrosse<br />I really like collecting knives and other weapons.

Posted 03 May 2009 - 08:28 PM

QUOTE (fenderbender633 @ May 3 2009, 08:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I wanna get tk barrels for all my guns, but if the fps can only be 330, than how will anyone feel the bb??? a-confused.gif

all I know is that it can pierce paper at 200 feet according to someone (Skyi/// can tell you who probably)
  • 0
U R NUBZ lOl

#11 fenderbender633

fenderbender633
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York

Posted 03 May 2009 - 08:33 PM

QUOTE (DutchManDan @ May 3 2009, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
all I know is that it can pierce paper at 200 feet according to someone (Skyi/// can tell you who probably)


well whats more accurate or even better: a tk with low fps with a low gram bb OR a madbull with really high fps and a high gram bb
  • 0

War does not determine who is right - only who is left. I AM LEFT!!! FTW!!!!

Current Primary: ICS M4 or G&G L85 A2 or Well L96
Current Secondary: Tokyo Marui MP7 or WE 1911 or UTG Multishot M3

#12 Skyi///

Skyi///
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cardbard box

Posted 04 May 2009 - 07:47 AM

Im not sure why you would even consider a madbull barrel.
They have a teflon coating that supposedly wears down over time and severly impairs accuracy.

For accuracy, a tk barrel is you best bet. Providing there isn't much wind.

QUOTE
all I know is that it can pierce paper at 200 feet according to someone (Skyi/// can tell you who probably)

Kyguylal, but he might have misunderstood the question, interpreting the question as "hit".


Now, If your field allow's it, and you go with a EDGI or PDI barrel with a 450fps+ set up, you will most definitely get better performance then a 330fps tk setup.

The tk barrel is a nice way for people to achieve better performance without surpassing their unusually low fps limits, or if they don't want to spend extra money on sears, gears, etc for their stock (Tm/ca etc) aeg or stock low fps rifle to handle a stronger spring.


Of course, you can go all out and have a fully aftermarket vsr with a tk. Something I plan on doing.

Edited by Skyi///, 04 May 2009 - 07:53 PM.

  • 0
http://www.airsoftfo...-B-t147334.html
Tanio Koba Twist barrel info

Do not play backyard Airsoft! It threatens the hobby, it threatens your life.

#13 scotty2010

scotty2010
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 June 2009 - 08:38 PM

airsoft unlimied now has tk twist barrels. http://www.airsoft-u...php?cPath=38_76

  • 0

#14 Skyi///

Skyi///
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cardbard box

Posted 01 June 2009 - 08:48 PM

9Battousai ASR

QUOTE
-TM VSR-10
-Tanio Koba 430mm barrel
-Nineball bucking
-.27g Bioval BBs
-some teflon tape

A budget-conscious build that shoots 323fps every time and will reach out to 220' without a problem. As it is, I'm putting all of my rounds on an 8.5"x11" sheet of paper at 200ft. 'Nuff said. Keep in mind, though, you'll be lobbing your rounds much after ~190ft. If you know where to aim, you can get a bit more out of your TK than the usual 200 or so feet.

QUOTE
Oh yes. I've been asked before if I was actually shooting. At 25 or so feet, you just can't tell. After 100ft, you have no chance of hearing it.

QUOTE
I took a stock TM VSR-10 PS and did the following:
~2mm spring spacer
LayLax damper kit
Nineball bucking
TK 430mm barrel
teflon on the spring guide and bucking

It runs right around 323fps, and when fired, air will VERY slowly leak air out through the bucking when the barrel is blocked It takes about 10secs to allow all of the air to leak out, before the system becomes fully sealed. Let go, and it will 'pop' the last little bit of air. Deadly quiet, and still reaches out to ~220ft.

Relatively cheap, dead reliable, and a wonderful rifle to shoot.
Total cost is ~$310, give or take.

QUOTE
Agreed about accuracy, but I'm running 323 in my VSR, and it's reaching out to 220'+. My MB02 (built for quietness first and foremost) is shooting at 390, and 175' is a guaranteed hit. My BAR-10 runs 465fps, and with the mentioned setup, can reach 240' with Biovals. Granted, it's the very end of my range, but I can and do consistently hit a torso at that range, even with a slight wind.

To think that 400-440fps will never offer great results is a load of crock. A STOCK setup running in that FPS bracket might not be spectacular, but you don't need 550fps+ to be effective.

I've tried the super-high-FPS deal. It's great, but when you can play under AEG rules and still outrange everything in your bracket, then you'll understand why it's so much fun.


QUOTE
As for the VSR-10, well, that's the magic of the TK barrel. 210' straight out, and I can make reasonably accurate hits out a little bit further. It's more susceptible to the wind than my other two setups, but I did make a few hits out at 190-210' and still had some steam.

Range advantage? No, not with the same setup. Ask MarineSGT about his M4, and what it can do.



  • 0
http://www.airsoftfo...-B-t147334.html
Tanio Koba Twist barrel info

Do not play backyard Airsoft! It threatens the hobby, it threatens your life.

#15 Mousqueterre

Mousqueterre

Posted 01 July 2009 - 01:16 AM

http://www.airsoftfo...4#entry18065824

For your file .... :)


  • 0

#16 Skyi///

Skyi///
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cardbard box

Posted 02 July 2009 - 11:20 PM

Although you gun is very nice and incorporates a rifled barrel, it does not use a Tanio Koba Twist Barrel since you made the entire rifle yourself.


Ton fusil est tres bon, mais tu ne utilise pas un "Tanio Koba Twist Barrel", ton fusil utilise un canon personnalisé, est sa c'est pourquoi les deux est différent.
  • 0
http://www.airsoftfo...-B-t147334.html
Tanio Koba Twist barrel info

Do not play backyard Airsoft! It threatens the hobby, it threatens your life.

#17 Parish_Rane

Parish_Rane
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Colorado

Posted 15 July 2009 - 06:15 PM

Current project is a high RPS 330fps M4. For the people with more experience than me, does RPS affect the performance of these barrels at all or would a TK Twist be a good barrel for my situation?

Edited by Parish_Rane, 15 July 2009 - 06:17 PM.

  • 0

#18 Tux

Tux
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Georgia
  • Interests:Airsoft, The Art of Being a Sniper, Field Craft, Precision Shooting, Computers, Networking

Posted 15 July 2009 - 06:24 PM

RPS does not matter.
  • 0

#19 Parish_Rane

Parish_Rane
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Colorado

Posted 15 July 2009 - 06:28 PM

QUOTE (Tux @ Jul 15 2009, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
RPS does not matter.

Sweet! Thanks for the info, I didn't assume it did but wanted to double check. Should be fun once I have it all compiled.
  • 0

#20 HWGeneral

HWGeneral
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 July 2009 - 05:34 PM

Im still not sure whether a 450-500 fps vsr with a longer (555mm) tightbore would be more accurate and have more range than the same gun at 330 fps with a tk (430).
  • 0

JG Bar-10 Stealth Sniper

#21 Skyi///

Skyi///
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cardbard box

Posted 26 July 2009 - 05:47 PM

Length affecting accuracy about 430mm is debatable.

A VSR-10 with 6.01mm EDGI tightbore at 500fps will certainly out shoot a TK barreled VSR-10 at 330fps without a doubt.

But have both shooting at 1 joule and the TK rifle will preform better.

  • 0
http://www.airsoftfo...-B-t147334.html
Tanio Koba Twist barrel info

Do not play backyard Airsoft! It threatens the hobby, it threatens your life.

#22 HWGeneral

HWGeneral
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 July 2009 - 06:30 PM

would price difference be worth the performance difference?
  • 0

JG Bar-10 Stealth Sniper

#23 HWGeneral

HWGeneral
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 July 2009 - 07:01 PM

and would the sp110 or sp100 spring be better?
  • 0

JG Bar-10 Stealth Sniper

#24 Tux

Tux
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Georgia
  • Interests:Airsoft, The Art of Being a Sniper, Field Craft, Precision Shooting, Computers, Networking

Posted 28 July 2009 - 05:45 PM

SP110 with a #14 O-ring.
  • 0

#25 Hardaway

Hardaway
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Central Texas, USA

Posted 21 August 2009 - 06:41 PM

Excellent! Thanks for the info on TK barrels. I'd get one for my M4, but I'm getting an excellent deal on a Madbull barrel, a KA chamber, and a systema bucking. $35!

I'll keep this in mind when I do my 'silent VSR-10' project.

  • 0
2009 Echo 1 M4: Systema bucking, H nub, Prometheus barrel, Intellect 9.6v 1400 mAh, deans. Shoots great.
Looking for a cheapish Eotech 552/3/7 replica, PM me! Also looking for a free float M4 rail system
TM P90: deans, FOR SALE! PM me or 6mm man

No longer a clone-hater.

#26 timitao

timitao

Posted 01 September 2009 - 12:37 PM

does it do anything to hop up, can you still have the hop up on with these barrels
  • 0

#27 TyGuy94920

TyGuy94920
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bowling Green, KY
  • SOA Name: tyguy94920

Posted 01 September 2009 - 08:19 PM

If anyone has any ideas on how to improve these into the higher fps ranges, let me know

Hopefully soon I'll have access to a CNC machine and able to engineer my own barrels.

I think a deeper groove will allow more airflow around the bb
  • 0

#28 Skyi///

Skyi///
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cardbard box

Posted 02 September 2009 - 08:10 PM

QUOTE (timitao @ Sep 1 2009, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
does it do anything to hop up, can you still have the hop up on with these barrels


You can use hop up normally.


QUOTE
Hopefully soon I'll have access to a CNC machine and able to engineer my own barrels.

I think a deeper groove will allow more airflow around the bb


I am guessing you are talking about a CNC mill, I'm sure the process of making inner barrels require a extruder device, a lathe and various polishing steps, not a CNC mill.


  • 0
http://www.airsoftfo...-B-t147334.html
Tanio Koba Twist barrel info

Do not play backyard Airsoft! It threatens the hobby, it threatens your life.

#29 sharingan

sharingan
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Austria/Europe

Posted 03 September 2009 - 07:03 AM

very interessting barrel. I have some question:

-did you still notice if you get hit by a 330fps gun at 60 meter??

-how to clean the barrel? Inside the riflng their might be some dirt that you can't remove very easly -> very bad accuray because one airflowchannel is blocked
  • 0


Squadmember of Team Soviet Strike

#30 TyGuy94920

TyGuy94920
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bowling Green, KY
  • SOA Name: tyguy94920

Posted 03 September 2009 - 10:01 AM

QUOTE (Skyi/// @ Sep 2 2009, 08:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am guessing you are talking about a CNC mill, I'm sure the process of making inner barrels require a extruder device, a lathe and various polishing steps, not a CNC mill.


I'm not sure exactly what it is, but it's able to make precision parts.

Unfortunately, I won't get access to the machine for another year, and that's a big if, but I can hire a senior student to machine the parts for me



I think that making the twist longer, and making the groves deeper would allow the use of a heavier round. Or at least thats how it happened with the M16

  • 0

#31 Grady the Scot

Grady the Scot
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Hiking, Surfing, Airsoft, Snowboarding, Sandboarding, Movies,

Posted 08 September 2009 - 01:17 PM

I was searching for TK twist barrels on google and found this thread. I registered for this forum just to reply. I did my research on the twist for a couple of months before I bought one for my P90. I have got to tell you from the bottom of my heart, I LOVE THIS BARREL. I can easily get my little p90 shooting accurately out to 250' and with the awe inspiring amount of bullets it puts out I can bring the rain at 300'. This barrel makes me so happy every time I use it. With my fps down in the low 300's (320ish) I don't feel bad about shooting someone from up close (40'). This also puts little to no strain on my gearbox. I run with an insanely awesome rate of fire and my parts look brand new after 6 months of use. I just purchased a JG G-Spec and a KM head barrel. After reading this thread I am really stoked again. My roomate who owns a regular Bar-10 and is shooting at 500ish convinced me not to go with a twist but now I might just buy one to tell you guys what the difference is. I can't believe I didn't do this when I first bought the gun. The bb's do go really slow at 200' + but with little to know strain on the internals the action is silent and they will not hear it coming. The trajectory is so VERY predictable. I got one shot kills at 200'+ with my p90 and red dot scope. I have owned an M4 with a tightbore shooting 400+ and couldn't hit the same accuracy as the Twist. I unless something totaly awesome comes along I will be using the twist from now on.

As the feeling it goes, the reason the know they got hit by my p90 at 200+ is the noise. My p90 has a metal piston head and cylinder head as well as 20+ ROF which makes it really loud. The sniper however I'm not sure. I have read that because of wind friction an Airsoft bb' has a terminal velocity which means that a bb fired at 400 will quickly decelerate to low 300's or high 200s after about 75'. This means that at much closer ranges the 400+ fps rifle will hurt much more than a gun fired at 328 (1J), but out at 200+ the difference is almost nill. This terminal velocity also affects accuracy. The 400+ rifle will have comprable or a little better accuracy than the twist rifle at 100- but when the terminal velocity kicks in the tk will continue to go very strait whereas the inconsiscencies from bouncing bb's at 400fps will catch up with the faster firing rifle. Like when you spin a bowling ball. If you spin a bowling ball and throw it really fast it will go strait for a long way. It may even continue to go strait all the way into the pins, but if that bowling lane where 300' you would see the bowling ball go very strait until it slowed down due to friction ( which is very small on a bowling lane by the way) then it would curve sharply. For an airsofter who fires his high firing gun he has no idea that the barrel puts a spin or a wobble on his bb until it gets upwars of 100-200 feet then it starts to take effect.

Sorry this post is so long I'm just really excited. My hands are shaking. I just wish I could put it all down at once. So I just broke up that paragraph to tell make it look smaller and less like I was ranting. Going back to the last bit. The difference between a really fast shooting rifle 420+ and a tk twist rifle is brute force vs finesse'. So the brute uses the tightbore to force the bb into a tighter bounce pattern to minimize deviation from his flight path. He also uses a high fps (which tranlsates practically into more pushing power) to keep the bb straiter for longer. The deviations will hopefully not appear until after the bb has reached its target or due to the shear force of its forward momentum the kinks will have worked their way out of the flight path. It's like a follow through in sports. If you kick a soccer ball or throw a baseball or shoot a basketball your coach should tell you to follow through. This means you continue to swing your leg or move your arm in the same arc no matter if you are in contact with the ball or not. This gives you a half a second more contact with the ball which gives it more momentum in the direction you want it to go. A tap must be perfectly placed to send the ball in question to the correct spot. The bowling ball analogy is ok but breaks down at a certain point. When you spin the ball and throw it as hard as possible two things happen due to friction. The friction of the lane will slow down the spin and the roll of the ball so if the amount of the spin is much less than the speed of the ball, then the ball will be only slightly affected by it because by the time the friction has slowed the ball enough for the side spin to matter the side spill will be gone or very small. (wow that was probably the biggest run on sentence ever (I hope Crimson Falcon doesn't see)). So now we have the twist. The twist was engineered to give no spin to the bb at all (because of the air pockets). The only spin that should effect the bb is the hop-up unit (which is not affected by the barrel by the way). I have actually run out of analogies if you can believe it or not. I will be thinking of one for the twist. The difference is the twist is engineered to take all the variables out of the bb's trajectory (bouncing around in the barrel).

The only bad thing about the twist is that it was engineered for .2 gram bb's. This means that if you have a strong cross wind a heavier bb will work MUCH better. It will not lose gain a sideways spin as fast (just like the bowling ball). This makes a higher shooting rifle better, but don't snipers have to take wind into account for their longer shots also? If we are trying to be as much like real military snipers wouldn't we want to have to take into consideration the wind and which direction its blowing.

That is my $0.15. I hope you found it helpful. I am human and fallible so I might have gotten my facts wrong feel free to help me out. My point is VIVA LA TK Twist!

I got a JG G-Spec recently and I'm looking for a TK Twist barrel for it. If anyone has any suggestions feel free. I like the barrel length of the G-Spec (303mm) because I like to move around a lot as a sniper and I don't want to put on the mock silencer as a barrel extension because then it is even longer than the regular bar-10 (this would totally defeat the purpose). Thanks
  • 0

#32 Skyi///

Skyi///
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cardbard box

Posted 08 September 2009 - 06:49 PM

Very nice first post!

Sadly the 303mm length VSR-10 cut TK barrel is discontinued.

EDIT: I saw your post on ASR where you found a 300mm TK barrel, AEG cut barrels will NOT FIT the VSR-10.

Edited by Skyi///, 08 September 2009 - 06:59 PM.

  • 0
http://www.airsoftfo...-B-t147334.html
Tanio Koba Twist barrel info

Do not play backyard Airsoft! It threatens the hobby, it threatens your life.

#33 Grady the Scot

Grady the Scot
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Hiking, Surfing, Airsoft, Snowboarding, Sandboarding, Movies,

Posted 09 September 2009 - 10:08 AM

Thanks for the heads up. I'll ask the same question I did on retreat.

Could I take the 430mm vsr cut twist barrel and cut it down. I don't think the grooves are different for each barrel length, so it shouldn't matter if I change the length of the barrel. Could it change?

That would be $70ish dollars down the drain if it didn't work out.
  • 0

#34 Panther Wrestler

Panther Wrestler
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 October 2009 - 11:28 PM

do they make twist barrels for anything hotter than one joule? I love accuracy, but I also want a bit more range. I could care less about velocity as long as the bb goes where I want it to.

You could probably cut it down, but there is a fillet in the end of most airsoft barrels that you would have to replicate after cutting it. I don't know if the twist barrels have the fillet because I have not seen one.

Edited by Panther Wrestler, 06 October 2009 - 11:30 PM.

  • 0

#35 Tux

Tux
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Georgia
  • Interests:Airsoft, The Art of Being a Sniper, Field Craft, Precision Shooting, Computers, Networking

Posted 07 October 2009 - 12:57 AM

You should have no problems as long as you cut it straight and properly crown the barrel.
  • 0

#36 MasKila

MasKila

Posted 07 October 2009 - 08:48 AM

My entire problem with these barrels, besides how in the three or four guns I've installed them in I never saw all these 'magic' range increases (although I actually do use a tape measure when I say a number in feet my gun can shoot, whereas most of these people eyeball it, I'm sure), anyway, my main critique is how your speed to target is decreased because of the low FPS these barrels need to operate.

I don't know how many times, even at 400 FPS with .25's (440 with .2's, our full-auto FPS limit), even at a pretty short range of 150 feet, that the target hears the shots and moves behind cover before the BB's can make it to them. For these 220+ foot shots at 330 FPS I've been hearing about here, the player on the receiving end must be either death, or oblivious to their surroundings (or you're all using AUG/P90's with the gearbox wrapped in Dynamat).
  • 0

#37 TyGuy94920

TyGuy94920
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bowling Green, KY
  • SOA Name: tyguy94920

Posted 07 October 2009 - 09:32 AM


I think your problem is they're not supposed to increase range, but increase accuracy

Your low speed target should not be any different than before you put the barrel in
  • 0

#38 Panther Wrestler

Panther Wrestler
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 October 2009 - 09:55 AM

QUOTE (TyGuy94920 @ Oct 7 2009, 07:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Your low speed target should not be any different than before you put the barrel in


Unless he had to downgrade the power of his rifle to meet the TK twist barells' limit.

I love the idea, but there's no way I'm going to spend that much on a barrel if it in turn means that the power of my rifle cannot exceed 1 joule. Sure, the gun will be insanely accurate, but it will only have the range of a common AEG.

Edited by Panther Wrestler, 07 October 2009 - 09:56 AM.

  • 0

#39 Phuncz

Phuncz
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium

Posted 07 October 2009 - 09:57 AM

QUOTE (TyGuy94920 @ Oct 7 2009, 04:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think your problem is they're not supposed to increase range, but increase accuracy

Your low speed target should not be any different than before you put the barrel in

I'm going with a TK barrel because semi/full auto rifles are limited to 360fps in my country. I'm upgrading my TM AUG with a 1J spring, which is about a 50fps increase. Along with better piston/cylinder set, hopup bucking, H-hop nub and the barrel, I'm hoping to achieve more range, precision and consistency. I'll report my findings.
  • 0

#40 Tux

Tux
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Georgia
  • Interests:Airsoft, The Art of Being a Sniper, Field Craft, Precision Shooting, Computers, Networking

Posted 09 October 2009 - 06:26 PM

QUOTE (MasKila @ Oct 7 2009, 09:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My entire problem with these barrels, besides how in the three or four guns I've installed them in I never saw all these 'magic' range increases (although I actually do use a tape measure when I say a number in feet my gun can shoot, whereas most of these people eyeball it, I'm sure), anyway, my main critique is how your speed to target is decreased because of the low FPS these barrels need to operate.

I don't know how many times, even at 400 FPS with .25's (440 with .2's, our full-auto FPS limit), even at a pretty short range of 150 feet, that the target hears the shots and moves behind cover before the BB's can make it to them. For these 220+ foot shots at 330 FPS I've been hearing about here, the player on the receiving end must be either death, or oblivious to their surroundings (or you're all using AUG/P90's with the gearbox wrapped in Dynamat).

You do realize this is a bolt-action section of the forums right? So naturally we are talking about installing these barrels in sniper rifles, which we are ASSUMING would be used by players playing the sniper role.
The individuals playing with these guns should already be manuevering with pristine stealth (sniper role). So therefore, when they do make their shots, the sniper should be concealed and the target shouldn't know where the shot is coming from. If not, that's a chance the sniper is taking.

At 1J, the gun/shot should be almost completely inaudable (due to the low FPS and slow collision of the piston to the cylinder head) even in a stock rifle. I also would like to make mention that these shots are taking an arc factor into account -- we aren't making 200'+ shots using a leveled rifle.

Edited by Tux, 09 October 2009 - 06:39 PM.

  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users