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Gas BlowBack DMR


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26 replies to this topic

#1 gerardcb

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 10:27 PM

Hi!

I've been thinking... The AGM M4 series...

What if I upgrade it for durability as well as accuracy??

If I get a more expensive GBB Rifle, I am still going to upgrade the internals. Might as well turn crappy internals into Really Cool DMR ones.

I always hear about upgrades for the AGM M4, but I'm a Newbie when it comes to anything besides Air-Cocking Bolt Actions. Seems noobie eh?

Well when it comes to parts of the AGM M4/Gas Rifles, I'm lost.

What are ALL parts that are critical to upgrade as for longevity of the rifle?

I also just wanna see the reactions that you guys have to my idea. If you have any other suggestions to make a GBB DMR successful, I wanna hear it fo shaoouuhh.

a-grin.gif

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#2 G36fanatic...

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 10:30 PM

You might as well get the G&P WOC M16. It comes with all the durable internal upgrades, and has a longer better barrel for a DMR. All you would need to do is custom order a barrel from EdGi, and find a good compatible hop up bucking. then adjust the fps with different types of gas...
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props to KOPER for the awesome sig
QUOTE
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#3 goldeneye007airsoft

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 11:25 PM

QUOTE (G36fanatic... @ Aug 13 2009, 11:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You might as well get the G&P WOC M16. It comes with all the durable internal upgrades, and has a longer better barrel for a DMR. All you would need to do is custom order a barrel from EdGi, and find a good compatible hop up bucking. then adjust the fps with different types of gas...

No, get an NPAS. It lets you adjust the FPS by a much larger range. Green gas vs propane vs CO2 will give like 30 FPS difference. The difference in an NPAS is like, 200.


If you really want a GBBR DMR, then start with a G&P WOC. You're going to need to put all of the G&P parts into the AGM if you want it to perform well. Definitely get an NPAS to upgrade power seriously. It comes stock at like under 400. A Tightbore is also a must.

However, overall, I think an AEG DMR will be better because of the internal upgrade potential.
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#4 G36fanatic...

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 11:39 PM

I actually think you should mod the mags so you can run external HPA or CO2 with a regulator. You can go from 200fps to 700fps with the turn of a knob. Its also way more consistant and just overall better than green gas. There is a guy called Echihn on www.airsoftsociety.com that can help you out with that, or he has a you tube video that shows you how to do it.



If you can switch to external air, internally you will be set, and you will only need to upgrade the barrel and hop up to get some good range.

Edited by G36fanatic..., 13 August 2009 - 11:40 PM.

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props to KOPER for the awesome sig
QUOTE
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#5 Joe.L

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 11:58 PM

I'd say get a woc m16 and work from there.

I was thinking a ra-tech pps, which is the normal nozzle but aluminum and modify one of the mags to run an external since HPA will not suffer from cool down and you will get a better consistent fps with it.

and you can adjust the fps through the regulator.

swap out the inner barrel with a ra-tech 6.03mm for accuracy and it actually runs up to the end of the outer barrel compared to the pdi.
no need to change the hop up rubber in my opinion.

I don't know about nowadays, but I remember when I got the G&P bolt stop when it first came out, it snapped at the weld. Best to get a ra-tech bolt stop since it is a solid piece.
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boosh!

#6 G36fanatic...

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 02:16 PM

don't forget your going to need some sort of optics. A DMR isnt complete without some sort of magnification :D I suggest a 4x32 ACOG. you can get them for as low as $110. and they look beast!

G&P WOC M16, TBB and a scope (maybe a bolt stop, IDK if that has been fixed) don't forget Mags too... those will be expensive, but luckily, DMRs use semi only and choose there shots wisely right? ;) So you only need 2-3 extras (refill them in feild)
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props to KOPER for the awesome sig
QUOTE
[JDM_WAAAT] 9:53 pm: I wish magpul made ps3 controllers
^^--- me too JDM, me too...

#7 goldeneye007airsoft

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 02:19 PM

QUOTE (G36fanatic... @ Aug 14 2009, 02:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
don't forget your going to need some sort of optics. A DMR isnt complete without some sort of magnification :D I suggest a 4x32 ACOG. you can get them for as low as $110. and they look beast!

G&P WOC M16, TBB and a scope (maybe a bolt stop, IDK if that has been fixed) don't forget Mags too... those will be expensive, but luckily, DMRs use semi only and choose there shots wisely right? ;) So you only need 2-3 extras (refill them in feild)

That problem only existed in WA's. The WOC series completely gutted the WA and replaced it with much stronger parts. The problem never arose in the WOC.

BTW, what does WOC stand for?/
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#8 gerardcb

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 03:55 PM

lol u guys...my bad for not mentioning this. For me, money does not grow on trees. I cant afford a G&P WOC especially upgrading it.

The reason why I chose the AGM is because of the cheap crappy internals which I will obviously upgrade so the price won't be crazy over.

Also, puting the NPAS is VERY expensive. So if I put it into the G&P...I won't be able to anyways.


Unless MAYBE ONLY if I could afford a stock G&P maybe that could just be it for the DMR. If it needs more ugprading cant afford that.


Guys please try to stick with the topic of AGM M4 unless there is a not SO expensive alternative.
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#9 Vegas

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 05:02 PM

There's a thread somewhere here about DMR's not being cheap. If you don't put money into it you're going to be disappointed and it won't live up to DMR expectations. If you can't afford it now you could just save up your money until you can get it.

Edited by Vegas, 14 August 2009 - 05:02 PM.

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#10 G36fanatic...

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 05:03 PM

the point of the G&P WOC is that you DON'T need to upgrade, other than the barrel. If you can get a silencer and longer inner precision barrel, I think the AGM can make a good DMR. But If you plan on buying almost all new internals, the AGM will be fine. Unfortunalty I have no idea where to find these upgrade parts. So sorry I cant really help you.

Here is the M4 barrel, although I highly suggest you get a silencer to hide a longer barrel. you may not notice a big difference in range and accuracy, but the longer barrel helps enough either way.
http://www.airsoftpo...le-p-30027.html
AGM is WA compatible right?
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QUOTE
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#11 maruipro

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 05:21 PM

DMR= Money Spending Black Holes.
GBBRs= Money Spending Black Holes
Trust me. I have both.

But yea, if you get a AGM, then you will need to upgrade almost everything.
Things like the Hammer Sear, Hammer, Hop up, Hop up Bucking, Barrel Extention, Tighten down the barrel, New Bolt (Hopefully a NPAS), New mags as the AGMs are crap and so are the 5KU ones on ehobby (I recommend GHK or Bomber as cheap alternatives to the WA mags.) for the gun to last any reasonable amount of time and still shoot nice.

For the WOC, just get the NPAS Bolt if you really want to solve problems with the bbs rolling out of the barrel.
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Herrozz!

#12 Joe.L

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 05:34 PM

QUOTE (maruipro @ Aug 14 2009, 03:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
DMR= Money Spending Black Holes.
GBBRs= Money Spending Black Holes

DMR+GBBR= Money Spending Super Black Holes x10

and about the 5ku mags, I've heard mixed reviews.

it's either works like a charm, or a leaky mofo.
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boosh!

#13 maruipro

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 05:41 PM

QUOTE (Joe.L @ Aug 14 2009, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
DMR+GBBR= Money Spending Super Black Holes x10

and about the 5ku mags, I've heard mixed reviews.

it's either works like a charm, or a leaky mofo.


+1 except that I heard that the 5ku mags are horrible. If they were that cheap and worked great, then everyone would buy them instead of Bomber and GHK which are right now the dominate mags for the WA system.
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Herrozz!

#14 goldeneye007airsoft

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 12:40 AM

QUOTE (gerardcb @ Aug 14 2009, 04:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
lol u guys...my bad for not mentioning this. For me, money does not grow on trees. I cant afford a G&P WOC especially upgrading it.

The reason why I chose the AGM is because of the cheap crappy internals which I will obviously upgrade so the price won't be crazy over.

Also, puting the NPAS is VERY expensive. So if I put it into the G&P...I won't be able to anyways.


Unless MAYBE ONLY if I could afford a stock G&P maybe that could just be it for the DMR. If it needs more ugprading cant afford that.


Guys please try to stick with the topic of AGM M4 unless there is a not SO expensive alternative.

Then you'll need to get a new bolt carrier, a NPAS, custom barrel, bolt stop, hop-up and more.

The way I see it, you're going to need to splurge to get a DMR GBBR
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#15 gerardcb

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 04:36 PM

QUOTE (goldeneye007airsoft @ Aug 15 2009, 02:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Then you'll need to get a new bolt carrier, a NPAS, custom barrel, bolt stop, hop-up and more.

The way I see it, you're going to need to splurge to get a DMR GBBR



It is still much cheaper than getting the G&P WOC or any other.

I would still need an NPAS on the WOC no doubt, still need new hop up/ hop up chamber, still need better inner barrel.

If I would just fix the gun to make it reliable and durable, yet having good accuracy it still beats the price of the G&P WOC + I now have a better hop up, barrel, and maybe and maybe an extra magazine.

Right now, I am pretty set on a DMR base as the AGM M4 series.

Thanks for the info, suggestions, and opinions u guys. I got a lot of info on what I need to buy to make it durable, but I just cant find the places to buy em =(.

Can you guys help me find wer I can buy the parts I need for the AGM M4?


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#16 goldeneye007airsoft

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 06:34 PM

QUOTE (gerardcb @ Aug 15 2009, 05:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It is still much cheaper than getting the G&P WOC or any other.

I would still need an NPAS on the WOC no doubt, still need new hop up/ hop up chamber, still need better inner barrel.

If I would just fix the gun to make it reliable and durable, yet having good accuracy it still beats the price of the G&P WOC + I now have a better hop up, barrel, and maybe and maybe an extra magazine.

Right now, I am pretty set on a DMR base as the AGM M4 series.

Thanks for the info, suggestions, and opinions u guys. I got a lot of info on what I need to buy to make it durable, but I just cant find the places to buy em =(.

Can you guys help me find wer I can buy the parts I need for the AGM M4?

RaTech website. I forget the exact link. They have all parts. Bolt carrier, bolt, NPAS, hop-up, inner barrel, everything.
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My WE SCAR Initial Overview

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#17 G36fanatic...

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 07:25 PM

I hear that the WE SCAR is very accurate right out of the box after you break in the hop up. It might make a good DMR with a barrel extention and TBB. People report 200-250 shots with the stock set up. I can only imagine what the increase would be with an extended TBB. Also, the SCAR is best on semi only because it freezes up, but I think most GBBRs have that issue.


Just another option to consider. You would only need little to no upgrade parts too other than an extended TBB.
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props to KOPER for the awesome sig
QUOTE
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^^--- me too JDM, me too...

#18 gerardcb

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 09:59 PM

QUOTE (G36fanatic... @ Aug 15 2009, 09:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I hear that the WE SCAR is very accurate right out of the box after you break in the hop up. It might make a good DMR with a barrel extention and TBB. People report 200-250 shots with the stock set up. I can only imagine what the increase would be with an extended TBB. Also, the SCAR is best on semi only because it freezes up, but I think most GBBRs have that issue.


Just another option to consider. You would only need little to no upgrade parts too other than an extended TBB.



Actually I'm kinda looking for a gun that can can fit an NPAS. After I figured out what that is lol I'm not looking back. A NPAS is a miracle.

Not sure if they have it for the WE Scar. Also, I'm not exactly sure if the WE Scar is durable and will last long stock.

But I mean its a very decent price, decent gun, just not sure what the specs are. Pros and cons of it.

What do you mean by freeze up? The mag because of the gas?

THANKS a lot for ur opinion! a-kiss.gif
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#19 gerardcb

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 01:11 AM

I'm still planning that awsum krazy DMR.

Maybe I could help other ppl in the new wave : Gas Blowback Designated Marksmen Rifles!!!

Keep your ideas goin! a-grin.gif
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#20 goldeneye007airsoft

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 04:18 AM

Brand New DMR option, but mondo expensivo. For some reason not on their site yet, but in this RedWof video on Youtube in new products for this week. G&P WOC Some long name. Comes with huge scope
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My WE SCAR Initial Overview

My A&K M249 Review

My "s" button only works sporadically, so please forgive any typos. Thanks!

#21 kiki-jiki

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 12:53 PM

GBB DMR...don't do it. They simply aren't accurate and consistent enough. Supposedly the best hop-up system is the stock G&P WOC one, and I couldn't get very consistent results with it. Not to mention that gas fluctuates a lot so FPS won't be all that consistent and same with your accuracy. Honestly, it would look cool, sound cool, but when it comes to skirmishing...you won't get too far.

You can make an AEG DMR for cheaper and it will be better in performance.

But since you seem to be so gung-ho about a GBB DMR with an AGM...

You'll need an NPAS. You don't need the entire bolt carrier, just get the plastic nozzle NPAS kit ($80 I believe). Then see what you can do about a tightbore barrel or at least a G&P WOC m16 length barrel and hop-up chamber. I know they sell them as a kit on Redwolf. But you'll probably want a G&P WOC chamber/bucking. Or a WA "Bulls-eye" chamber (basically same as the G&P WOC). Don't bother with the RA Tech one though.

If you didn't want to mess with the NPAS however you could just get the longer inner barrel which will give you a big boost in FPS. Not sure exactly how much, but could be close to 500 FPS overall.

Edited by kiki-jiki, 19 August 2009 - 12:56 PM.

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#22 goldeneye007airsoft

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 05:23 PM

QUOTE (kiki-jiki @ Aug 19 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
GBB DMR...don't do it. They simply aren't accurate and consistent enough. Supposedly the best hop-up system is the stock G&P WOC one, and I couldn't get very consistent results with it. Not to mention that gas fluctuates a lot so FPS won't be all that consistent and same with your accuracy. Honestly, it would look cool, sound cool, but when it comes to skirmishing...you won't get too far.

You can make an AEG DMR for cheaper and it will be better in performance.

But since you seem to be so gung-ho about a GBB DMR with an AGM...

You'll need an NPAS. You don't need the entire bolt carrier, just get the plastic nozzle NPAS kit ($80 I believe). Then see what you can do about a tightbore barrel or at least a G&P WOC m16 length barrel and hop-up chamber. I know they sell them as a kit on Redwolf. But you'll probably want a G&P WOC chamber/bucking. Or a WA "Bulls-eye" chamber (basically same as the G&P WOC). Don't bother with the RA Tech one though.

If you didn't want to mess with the NPAS however you could just get the longer inner barrel which will give you a big boost in FPS. Not sure exactly how much, but could be close to 500 FPS overall.

I've heard that teh RA tech hop-up rubber is best. I've seenbest results with it.
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My WE SCAR Initial Overview

My A&K M249 Review

My "s" button only works sporadically, so please forgive any typos. Thanks!

#23 gerardcb

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 09:17 PM

QUOTE (kiki-jiki @ Aug 19 2009, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
GBB DMR...don't do it. They simply aren't accurate and consistent enough. Supposedly the best hop-up system is the stock G&P WOC one, and I couldn't get very consistent results with it. Not to mention that gas fluctuates a lot so FPS won't be all that consistent and same with your accuracy. Honestly, it would look cool, sound cool, but when it comes to skirmishing...you won't get too far.

You can make an AEG DMR for cheaper and it will be better in performance.

But since you seem to be so gung-ho about a GBB DMR with an AGM...

You'll need an NPAS. You don't need the entire bolt carrier, just get the plastic nozzle NPAS kit ($80 I believe). Then see what you can do about a tightbore barrel or at least a G&P WOC m16 length barrel and hop-up chamber. I know they sell them as a kit on Redwolf. But you'll probably want a G&P WOC chamber/bucking. Or a WA "Bulls-eye" chamber (basically same as the G&P WOC). Don't bother with the RA Tech one though.

If you didn't want to mess with the NPAS however you could just get the longer inner barrel which will give you a big boost in FPS. Not sure exactly how much, but could be close to 500 FPS overall.



Thanks for the idea, but the reason why I wanted a gbb is because im into the realistic feel. I guess it isnt really a good choice coming from the feebback so maybe I should just stop the GBB DMR idea...
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#24 kiki-jiki

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 10:26 AM

QUOTE (goldeneye007airsoft @ Aug 19 2009, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've heard that teh RA tech hop-up rubber is best. I've seenbest results with it.

...really? I've only heard bad things about them lol. Maybe they came out with a newer improved version or something, but they had this little o-ring that would always come off and screw stuff up. Somebody on GGi (I think it was like IBICO) had like every chamber/rubber you could get and tried them all, and he said the G&P WOC chamber/rubber gave him the best and most consistent results.

QUOTE (gerardcb @ Aug 19 2009, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks for the idea, but the reason why I wanted a gbb is because im into the realistic feel. I guess it isnt really a good choice coming from the feebback so maybe I should just stop the GBB DMR idea...

Man, I love the realistic feel too. That's why I got my G&P WOC. However, I just don't see it being a very reliable DMR. You can make a somewhat reliable assault rifle (and it can look sweet as f*ck), but I just haven't seen any modern GBBRs accurate and consistent enough to be a good DMR platform. You could wait a little while and see if things change- from what I hear the KJW m4 GBB is supposed to be a bit more reliable than the others, but it hasn't really been time tested yet.

In general, it seems like the GBBRs aren't all that skirmishable. I mean, I tried to use mine, and for a while I only had one mag, and that was...interesting, to say the least. Then I got three more, and they didn't really work in my gun. Fun, right?

Now I'm back to an AEG, but there are a few guys locally that also have GBBRs and I always feel bad because I'll hear "Sh*t guys, my mag gassed out!" or "Crap, that was my last mag! Hold on, I gotta refill it with gas!" or "What the hell? Why isn't this thing shooting right?!". I mean, sometimes they shoot pretty nice, but I just don't see them as very skirmishable right now.
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#25 zachbiz

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 09:16 PM

heads up guys, I don't know if anyone has seen it but here



DMR G&P WOC


edit, goldeneye posted a video from RW weekly updates. but heres the direct link

Edited by zachbiz, 20 August 2009 - 09:21 PM.

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#26 gerardcb

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 10:07 PM

QUOTE (kiki-jiki @ Aug 20 2009, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Man, I love the realistic feel too. That's why I got my G&P WOC. However, I just don't see it being a very reliable DMR. You can make a somewhat reliable assault rifle (and it can look sweet as f*ck), but I just haven't seen any modern GBBRs accurate and consistent enough to be a good DMR platform. You could wait a little while and see if things change- from what I hear the KJW m4 GBB is supposed to be a bit more reliable than the others, but it hasn't really been time tested yet.

In general, it seems like the GBBRs aren't all that skirmishable. I mean, I tried to use mine, and for a while I only had one mag, and that was...interesting, to say the least. Then I got three more, and they didn't really work in my gun. Fun, right?

Now I'm back to an AEG, but there are a few guys locally that also have GBBRs and I always feel bad because I'll hear "Sh*t guys, my mag gassed out!" or "Crap, that was my last mag! Hold on, I gotta refill it with gas!" or "What the hell? Why isn't this thing shooting right?!". I mean, sometimes they shoot pretty nice, but I just don't see them as very skirmishable right now.


Thanks alot for the lecture on the computer. I mean definately in a good way =). Really like hit me.

I'n my mind, "So seriously even 600 bucks can't get a good DMR?? Coming from a person who knows what their doing and even has a G&P WOC...wow"

Okay now I'm over this GBBR thing lol.

Thanks kiki-jiki.

Its time for the KWA SR10 topic!

Cya guys! a-cool.gif
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#27 Thumper69

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 12:22 AM

ok since apaprently people in this thread post about crap they don't know anything about here we'll start with facts not opinions.

A AGM M4 CAn be converted. Gunner sells the upper to convert into a SPR. Next up, ditch the AGM hop up go for the G&P.. also pick up the longer tightbore they make. Now IF you feel the need grabn the RA tech upgrades and this thing will out perform a TM PSG1. And if people want to tell you no, or that GBB's arent consistant. It's crap. With parts and ability these can be JUST as consistant. Now remember that these will recoil where a AEG doesn't. However you sight in on your target, you pick up the slack in the trigger, and bam. you feel the recoil slam into your shoulder and the bb goes downrange.

If you can think of ONE AEG that will give you that feeling? Show me. Don't mouth off. don't give me some 17 year old opinion. SHOW me. I'm from Missouri.

Edited by Thumper69, 26 August 2009 - 12:23 AM.

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