Jump to content



to add your 300x250 banner, pay ad zone 5
Airsoft Atlanta is your source for quality airsoft guns and rifle parts
to add your Text Link here, pay ad zone 3

AirsoftAtlanta.com AirsoftNMore.com Airsplat.com AirsoftRC.com
Vote for us to add your 180x30 banner here, pay ad zone 2

If you appreciate this website, please ASF Donation or Check Out the ASF Store. If you can not help us financially,
then at least help us by telling a friend: Share us on your favorite social networking website Bookmark and Share

Important Announcement!

Our Pinzgauer Project is in "Pre Launch" - Click Here to let us know what you think before the project goes live.

Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

The ASF Off Topic Forum / the BST Area / Maturity & Post Quality lately


  • Please log in to reply
71 replies to this topic

#1 admin

admin
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Grand Rapids, MI, USA
  • SOA Name: admin

  • My Temperament:7,7,2,8

Posted 03 October 2009 - 04:59 PM

...the following is an email that was sent to everyone on 10/03/09 in case you missed it...

Hello,

This is a staff-only email.

Hey! it's your fearless leader. You know - the one who never shows up unless there's a big problem?

So how are things on your end? Over here at ASF, they're "pretty jacked-up and on a rapid decline" ...or so I'm told.

Isn't that nice?

No? I didn't think so either, which is why I am emailing you. Apparently there are a couple of issues going on that have recently been brought to my attention:

1. the decline of the Buy-Sell-Trade (BST) forums
2. the decline in the maturity and quality of airsoft topics
3. the "big problem" with the Off-Topic forum

#1 regarding the decline in traffic to the buy-sell-trade area, keep in mind that our website traffic generally falls off over the summer months (as a whole) due to everyone wanting to be outdoors instead of in front of a computer screen for most of the USA. However, I am sure that there has been some attrition in the BST due to us restricting it as we have with paid and free access* in contrast to just letting anyone post in there willy-nilly.

*Free access to the BST is contingent on the member using the SportsOnlyAuction.com (SOA) website for the actual transaction that is - see rules for details*

As you may have noticed in defense of the recent BST change, the scams and bad deals are pretty much non-existent these days so I am not sure what to say about the issue except: let's see what happens this winter as website traffic picks back up. If the BST performance continues to stay slow or get worse, maybe we can look at alternative ways to improve it or increase traffic to it.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>EDIT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
the above was what was actually sent out to everyone,
what follows is the rest of the message that was not sent to keep it short.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>EDIT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Regarding issues #2 & #3 above, I am generally not around long enough (if at all recently) to know what's going on with ASF for the day to day operations unless there is a new advertiser or a serious problem that moderators or other administrators can't handle. (Thanks by the way to those of you who clue me in from time to time about important issues that are not being resolved or handled properly). I really appreciate you guys for helping to take care of this website and let me know when there is an issue that needs special attention.

...Today I was going through my PMs (Private Messages) and noticed a large number of complaints mainly due to two things: "the increased immaturity and irresponsibility of the Off-Topic forum content (OTF) and how it is killing the entire website"...

First of all, nothing is killing ASF - we're fine. People come, people go. Sometimes things are great, and sometimes they are not - its a way of life.

However, I can see where things have slacked off in a couple of areas and this is where you come in. Now granted this could also be due to the fact that many of you are also busy during the summer months and thus have little time for ASF. That certainly is the case for me so I can understand it if that's the deal with you too...

I have noticed (as many of the PMs I have received recently have indicated), that there is a lot of crap being posted in the OTF. many of these PMs have expressed their concern about how these crappy OTF posts and topics have some-how permeated the rest of the entire website with crap topics / and stupid ridiculous posts everywhere.

While I don't disagree that there has been a decline in quality posts lately, I do disagree that the reason for the decline in intelligent airsoft discussions on ASF has anything to do with the off-topic forums over-running the rest of the website. The problem is that moderators are busy and a lot of immature people are being jack-asses - it must be something in the water - they're drinking, I guess. There is a time and place for everything and left unchecked, things sometimes get a little wacky - that's all.

...ASF isn't going downhill, we're not (___insert derogatory adjective here___), or anything like that. It's just time for a little positive adjustment - that's all...

***EDIT: I've decided this is going to be an "EVERYONE email", not just a staff only message.***

I firmly believe that it is up to each of us to help make AirsoftForum.com (ASF) a better airsoft forum and it is not just the responsibility of the staff, elite members, advertisers, paid or free sellers or any other certain member group selectively. All of us need to do our part, starting with me. This is the very reason I am going to make a commitment to make myself more available so that administrative issues can get handled in a timely manor. I am even seriously considering to make my personal cell phone number available to help members get an immediate response when there is a problem. I am not 100% sure I want to do this just yet. But I know if I do, it will be unprecedented and a huge leap for the ASF "Customer Service" department would it not?

Anyway, back the issues at hand: Maturity levels and quality members posting useful airsoft information (or the lack there of)...

We really need you to help us post useful and quality information on the forums. If you have not been around in a while or if your concerns or suggestions went unnoticed before and that's the reason we haven't seen you in awhile, please let me know personally. Your input and participation is very important to me.

The last time I checked, we were like the number 3 airsoft forum in the world in terms of size, traffic and member participation. AND with your help, I'd like to see us reach the number one spot.

How would YOU like to be able to say that YOU personally had a hand in making AirsoftForum.com THE NUMBER ONE airsoft forum in the world? This is not going to be an easy or light-hearted task. This is going to take a serious effort from each one of us. We currently have 33,000+ members registered but many of them don't come around anymore (for a multitude of reasons).

30,000+ members doesn't mean anything if the current several thousand members are not happy or are posting crap; which is why we need your help.

We need your help in posting useful - helpful content. We need your help with member activity and helpful member participation. We need your help in making AirsoftForum.com a better place overall in many different areas but we can't do that if you don't come around or let us know what you think. If any of you have marketing experience or are willing or able to help with website promotions in some way, please let me know.

To the majority of people who see ASF from the outside and for those that experience our website on first glance, We're Huge!, We're Awesome, We're great and many other great comments I've heard. But at the same time, of there are tiny unresolved issues floating around like the ones mentioned above, I take each of them seriously so that they don't wind up hurting ASF.

Speaking of which, The OTF area has moved to the "elite member" only area. In order to view the off-topic forum and or many other "hidden forums" you will need to check the rules to view that area now. This can be done either free or you can pay for immediate access - the choice is yours. The reason for moving it to the hidden area is to improve maturity and to remove the crazy, ludicrous topics from public view so that new members and advertisers don't read what's in there and think we're a bunch of children who don't know anything about airsoft.

If you'd like to continue this discussion, please post a reply below.

-admin

-------------------------------------
Airsoft Forum Statistics:
-------------------------------------
Registered Users: 33805
Total Posts: 1378006
Busiest Time: 2584 users were online on 2nd March 2009 - 02:07 PM

Edited by admin, 03 October 2009 - 10:38 PM.

od712m_tn.jpg

Click for Pinzgauer Project info !

 

Click Here to Help us Buy It

 


#2 Meety Peety

Meety Peety

    I enjoy long walks on the beach.. with a 1911.

  • Forum Administrator
  • 1,849 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Diego, CA
  • Interests:Well, I'm fascinated with pistols. I have one AEG and so many pistols I don't know what to do with them anymore. I got my first airsoft gun about six years ago, but got more into the sport of it about three years ago, mainly for it's realism and tactical aspects. That's about it for now..

Posted 03 October 2009 - 07:34 PM

My replies on the issue are in our (moderator only) discussion thread.

QUOTE ( Romeo_Delta @ Mar 19 2010, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also, this is a forum. You aren't entitled freedom.

#3 admin

admin
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Grand Rapids, MI, USA
  • SOA Name: admin

  • My Temperament:7,7,2,8

Posted 03 October 2009 - 11:22 PM

Yes, Peety you have some really valid points and if its ok with you, I'd like to duplicate my responses to them here publicly. If that's a problem either let me know or go ahead and delete this post if you get to it before I do...

We never had an OTF in the beginnings of this website for a few reasons but after much debate and member requests, we finally added it against *our* better judgment - remember that?

Anyway, what to do with it now is the issue. I think now that we have it, we can't really kill it or else we're going to making a mistake (although I'm not totally opposed to the idea of killing it if the majority of staff thinks that it needs to happen). As much as I hate to say it, I think it's here to stay - not because its such a great addition to the website, but because certain people have come to expect it.

I did ask vietec to go ahead and post (a topic in the moderator only forum) to see what (the staff) thinks about the OTF but while he was doing that, I read through 6 pages (2 topics) of censored2.gif fest posts about the OTF on whether or not to keep or get rid of them that the members started last month. One topic was a rant and the other was a poll. Although the poll was week, it did seem to support the idea of some sort of restrictions placed on it although I have no clue what the limits proposed would have on it (the min posts and x-number of time required before posting in there).

After reading all that and deleting more than 50 posts between the 2 topics, I went ahead and moved the OTF to the elite only area as you no doubt know by now. That's not set in stone, but it was done earlier today awaiting a final verdict from you guys (the staff).

QUOTE (Meety Peety @ Oct 3 2009, 06:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...Now on the topic of actually making this change: I do not agree at all. Its pointless and is only going to cause trouble. When people don't reach the post count requirement, they will rank post. When people are excluded from the OT section, you will see threads popping up all over the place that are off topic. Not to mention the entire application process for Elite membership has effectively been turned to SH*T. People aren't applying for Elite membership, they are applying for the OT section. Essentially, all they have to do is make a thread and get back into the OT, so this whole change did almost nothing but create work for everyone, both staff and members. On top of that the members hate it. I could go on and on about why this sucks.. but instead, I'll simply make it known that I am going to stay away from the application section entirely. I refuse to sift through crap like this: (link removed to protect the identity of retarded OP). People don't even take it seriously, that one didn't even bother "applying". I just don't see a point in wasting my time on these people, I stay away from the OT for a reason, and now its been brought to me.


those are some really good points. One of the things it does is add value to elite member status. Keep in mind that the whole reason for the elite member section was to check their post history for "mature and responsible content" and if said member was not mature enough or responsible - then they were suppose to be denied. Not simply added because they had 100 posts and a completed profile.

If we stick to that rule and make sure that jack asses are not being allowed in - then it would effectively raise the maturity of the people posting in there IMO. If the idiots post their crap elsewhere they get their crap deleted and their accounts suspended. That's what I was thinking when I moved it - not that I was trying to reduce the quality of the elite member area (by allowing any jackass in there).

QUOTE (Meety Peety @ Oct 3 2009, 08:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...No "Elite only" sections have ever been invisible, they were left visible so that people would apply to get into them. Additionally, if we were to leave the OT section invisible, what the F is the point in even having it?
that's true, they can see what's there but they can not read it. (at least that's what I thought - I'd have to double check the permissions. And yes it was designed to entice them to join the elite member status, but remember - they were suppose to maintain a high level of posting elsewhere on the forums to be granted access to it.

QUOTE (Meety Peety @ Oct 3 2009, 08:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...The only reason its here was to increase traffic and new member registrations.. not to give some retarded 12 year olds a place to act inappropriately online. They can use (insert immature website here) for that.. or any other place. In my opinion if you want to keep the OT running, moderate it.

well one of the stipulations in adding it was that we would not moderate it due to the fact that we didn't want it in the first place as it was going to create a ton of extra work for us. So what if were were to "raise" the standard - not lower it for the members that want in there to post in the OTF ?

od712m_tn.jpg

Click for Pinzgauer Project info !

 

Click Here to Help us Buy It

 


#4 goldeneye007airsoft

goldeneye007airsoft
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA, NJ
  • Interests:Interests bore me.

Posted 04 October 2009 - 02:50 AM

Admin, I hate to sound like a complete kiss a$s, but I agree. TBH, I don't miss the OTF. I can see them whenever, but I probably won't be checking on them... ever. I found it to be a distraction, especially when I looked at the newest posts, and found 9/10 to be on The funnist YouTube comments.

Thanks for this, and BTW, I think I just pissed off a lot of members.


My WE SCAR Initial Overview

My A&K M249 Review

My "s" button only works sporadically, so please forgive any typos. Thanks!

#5 silent_soul

silent_soul

    Silent_soul is a Pirate

  • Authorized Seller Elite
  • 1,650 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nebraska
  • Interests:Things

Posted 04 October 2009 - 03:44 AM

Thought id say that moving the OTF there was a good idea. There was a good number of members that only posted there and thus had a zero post count. Just saying that maybe it will make people explore the site more. Next goal is now to get access back to the OTF section :D
TAT'D LIKE A G

#6 Fricken Hamster

Fricken Hamster

Posted 04 October 2009 - 03:47 AM

Decline of BST? Maybe you should have listened to the hatemail/death threats you got when you made the BST change.
I personally know one friend who was really pissed off when you added all the obstacles.
Too many steps to take. Too many accounts to make. People like simple. Plus, the approval time pissed off my friend pretty badly(he called you some pretty naughty things :<)
So most of them just go to other sites.

Scams? Most people don't get scammed and don't care that other people do. They go in with the "I'm invincible" mentality.

Don't fool yourself into thinking it just summer.

I don't have any suggestions, but the reason is clear.
Anti Guay&Guay guns
QUOTE (serano @ Apr 10 2009, 07:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
airsoft is a fashion show, the winner is the best looking, and hey if you look good then you feel good and thats what airsoft is about having fun and being with cool people

QFT

#7 TechnoMagi

TechnoMagi
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Birdsboro, PA
  • Interests:Airsoft, 40K, all kinds of stuff.

Posted 04 October 2009 - 06:13 AM

IMO:

I don't miss the Off Topic Section. I don't miss BST. I still poke occasionally in the WTB area to see if anyone is looking for something I have; but otherwise, I'll go elsewhere. I'm not going to take the extra effort to apply to view the hidden sections.

--Do you want to know why ASF is the largest Airsoft Forum? Simple. Domain name. You search Google for 'Airsoft Forums," which is what I did when I started my Airsoft career, and what do you think shows up? I joined ASF because it was the first thing I found. Stop trying to push that this is the best forum ever.

ASF rarely has useful information, it seems that 90% of the forum goers here are just here to learn about airsoft when they first get into it, then disappear. I still drift in and out to give my limited advice and opinions, but I never come here looking for answers; I never get the info I need. Arnies and GGI are the places to go for useful information.
Salewise, I sell locally (and on nearby community forums). I used to sell on here, but buyers never left me feedback, and now you must be a registered seller. To put it simple, I won't pay a fee, even a small one, to sell something. Ebay does it, and I don't sell there anymore because of it. There's always another way to sell something, and my stuff always sells eventually.
I have been scammed, multiple times actually (always via trades), and I have yet to blame the intermediary. Its all in the buyers/sellers' hands. I believe you should have kept your disclaimer, and left BST the way it was.

Also, I have not, nor will I ever, use SoA. I don't understand the point. I'm not going to waste the extra time and effort to sign up and whatever through there to buy an item from a reputable seller. Paypal's already there for that.

Just my $0.02. Take it for what you will. Sorry if I come off rude and whatever, but those are my thoughts on the subject. Also its almost 7am and I want to go to sleep.
Current guns:
WE 3.8 Hicapa, TM Desert Eagle
Modified CA B&T Mp5/Mp5k hybrid
KJW M4 GBBr
CYMA M14, DE M3 shotgun

#8 erk

erk

Posted 04 October 2009 - 06:39 AM

QUOTE (Fricken Hamster @ Oct 4 2009, 04:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Decline of BST? Maybe you should have listened to the hatemail/death threats you got when you made the BST change.
I personally know one friend who was really pissed off when you added all the obstacles.
Too many steps to take. Too many accounts to make. People like simple. Plus, the approval time pissed off my friend pretty badly(he called you some pretty naughty things :<)
So most of them just go to other sites.

Scams? Most people don't get scammed and don't care that other people do. They go in with the "I'm invincible" mentality.

Don't fool yourself into thinking it just summer.

I don't have any suggestions, but the reason is clear.


I'm in agreement, people can smell it when you are trying to be profitable on a website. That and just too much information from the webmasters life ( makes him seem like he has control and insecurity issues). Keep it simple and let it grow itself (little soldier emoticons are really cute and all but they cost money I'm sure) . I wouldn't sell on this site. Linking it to some other auction site is nuts. Go to NEASG and there is no charge for anything, it is a site that is actually made to support airsoft, not to be supported by airsoft. It's support system is from hit counts and airsoft retailers. People who make money off of the sport support the people who make money off of the sport.
Set moderators for forums, people who govern maturity and post quality. Let the system be self-governing. If people want to say bad words, so be it. They are playing soldier/sailor, not playing boy scout.
Keep talk of politics to a minimum, understand that you lose 50% of your people by your political opinion, whatever that may be, same with religion

I have done about 350 trades through the country since I started playing airsoft in 1995 when I was still in the military and 1998 when it was adopted in the military when I was the resident expert for upgrades in my command, I mostly used airsoft retreat, airsoft zone, and neasg.org for all of my online trading and I never got scammed because I did my homework, I would get their address and phone number, call them and talk to them, we would ship at the same time or whatever. I do see some people get scammed, but not more than the norm in any aspect of life. I suggest thinking logically, that a lot of people are military or just don't think inside the box who play airsoft and have means to get what they want should they get scammed so that they don't need the protection ( hassle) of a website selling tool when there are much easier ways to inform the public that they have something for sale. Fact is, they will tell the world somehow, why make it complicated?

I don't know about this forum, but our home NEASG forum traffic is doubled in the summer. We have ops planned, people need things, aars to post, people want to change up their gear, historically the dead time on the forums in airsoft has been from thanksgiving to january 15, then people start dreaming and buying and posting again waiting for the big thaw.

Hope my suggestions are helpful.



#9 springgunner

springgunner
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NC

Posted 04 October 2009 - 06:58 AM

I think that the change to OT being elite only is going to make a bunch of people apply, JUST for OT. I did when I heard of that, but I had applied before (I was denied) and have always been too lazy to make another. I think I would mainly use to other hidden forums, because I only go to OT when I can't find anything I want to read in the other sections. So I don't think that was a good idea, and OT should only be for people that applied or were accepted before the change. there are some posts saying "I want the OT" and hoping to be accepted. it is your call, but that's what I think

If you are a Christian, coservative, pro-gun, pro-life, semi-sorta-kinda organic eantn'airsofter; put this in your sig.

Near Fort Bragg?
Need a place to play?
check out Queen Annes Revenge!
PM me, WOCDMR'ist or go to our website: http://queenannesrevengenc.webs.com/

#10 osu5312

osu5312
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Senecaville OH.

Posted 04 October 2009 - 07:24 AM

QUOTE (TechnoMagi @ Oct 4 2009, 07:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Arnies and GGI are the places to go for useful information.

That's true.

IMO:

I beleive, we should keep the OTF (I'm not trying to be biased). Since people are complaining about the immaturity level of the OTF, we could have a group of mods just fot the OTF (someone mentioned it yesterday in another thread). That seems like it could work.
READ THIS BEFORE YOU MAKE ANTOHER TOPIC ABOUT WHY TM IS SO GOOD.
QUOTE (M249Dude @ Sep 13 2009, 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
so based on what ur saying, echo 1 didnt build their own P90? they bought it from another company and magically molded their trades onto the metal body so cleanly?

#11 BengalProductions

BengalProductions
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:So Cal

Posted 04 October 2009 - 07:51 AM

First off, my hat's off to you guys here on ASF. The mods and admins are doing a great job, despite what people may say. As a recently "no-longer-welcome" member of another forum that loves to bash newbies and in essence drives away new business, I enjoy being on this site and contributing however I can.

Sure, sometimes the comments and threads are a bit "immature", but ASF also has a younger demographic then some other forums. That is, however you want to look at it, part of the territory. And we need to attract "new blood" into our sport. But that doesn't mean allow immaturity to run rampant, we would need to have a bit more oversight in that forum. But slamming it down/shutting it down, would be an unfortunate way to deal with it.

For what it's worth, add me to the "adding mods to the OT Forum" column.



#12 Guest_Synthetic1_*

Guest_Synthetic1_*

Posted 04 October 2009 - 07:52 AM



Thanks for what you guys do here on this forum...


#13 Miah

Miah
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Missouri

Posted 04 October 2009 - 08:24 AM

Let's see

1. After the change I quit using the BST forum. I've been mildly tempted to purchase a membership, but instead managed to sell everything I need to on other free forums & locally. I see no compelling need to use SOA when there are already tried & tested feedback/protection systems implemented on the internet free for our use (Heatware feedback, etc).

Besides I thought the general hope was to eventually let BST die & SOA be the real trading system for the forums anyway. Is that's what's happening & if so isn't that a good thing? If BST is dying & SOA isn't picking up then isn't that exactly as the nae-sayers err....said... when complaining about the paid BST change?

2/3. I've only posted in the OT section once that I can remember, so it's not a biggie to me either...but I recently did get cut out of an OT on another forum when they implemented post count requirements & I'll admit as a user it did piss me off to essentially be told "you were good enough, but you're not good enough anymore."

Whether you like it or not, use it or not, it's here. If you mods try to up & kill it, you'll have backlash from the community that does use it & you'll lose members. Some may be people you don't care about, but surely some will be useful participating members in other areas of the forums.

#14 admin

admin
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Grand Rapids, MI, USA
  • SOA Name: admin

  • My Temperament:7,7,2,8

Posted 04 October 2009 - 09:52 AM

well much of the input from many of you is brutal, but I do care and I did ask for it so I am glad you (the people who don't like us) have the courage to speak your mind.

I would also like to ask those of you who are not sure what the truth is one way or the other - to have an open mind and figure it out for your self that ASF really is a good place contrary to much of the brutal opinions you may be reading here.

As a community leader (and if any of you are somewhere else) - you will know that it is impossible to please 100% of the people 100% of the time. We are simply trying to please the majority and make the right decisions and choices for the community as a whole.

The reason we are #2 or #3 in the world is NOT "because of the domain name". We are a great forum because of the effort put into it by the staff and members and the positive way we treat people here.

I'll have more comments later, but that's it for now. Thanks again for the input people (brutal as some of it may be). I can promise you that because of your input - WE WILL BE #1 HERE EVENTUALLY

od712m_tn.jpg

Click for Pinzgauer Project info !

 

Click Here to Help us Buy It

 


#15 Jewlz

Jewlz
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Airsoft<br />Real guns<br />Camping<br />gaming

Posted 04 October 2009 - 10:13 AM

I think the OT should be deleted personally. To be honest, I'm only in the elite member access topics now days. It seems like they are always easier to read, and the people who post are more mature.

Ever since the BST section was taken away, I have not seen much of what I've been looking for. See, if someone is willing to pay a fee to sell something, most likely their item will be expensive. If me or someone else is looking for little parts, such as a gearbox plate for an AUG, there wont be anyone who paid to sell something like that. So the only chance I have in getting that, is if someone who already has a membership is for some reason selling little bits of an AUG.
Live to win win to live
QUOTE (AOE @ Jun 6 2009, 08:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I came here expecting to see a nice gun, instead I see a girl leaving a goodbye note about leaving ASF. What is the world coming to?


QUOTE (Kavurcen @ Jul 18 2009, 08:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To give you an idea, a trigger happy, SAW-wielding nub will shoot maybe 1k rounds in a day's play

............................................/\
.............................................l lol

#16 Blackbird

Blackbird
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sarasota,Fl
  • Interests:Cars, (Z28 &amp; Trans AM), Drag racing, Guns, airsoft

Posted 04 October 2009 - 10:22 AM

Hi, I am New to Airsoft, 4 months now. When I saw what these guns look like and what they cay can do, I had to know more about them, I found yours and many other websites in June and began my Education. I have since bought 4 used M4 variants; many parts and accessories ( mostly used); learned how to work on them ( gearboxes, wiring, making mosfets...ect) and joined a team here in Florida. I have made many purchases on WTB/S forums. I have been burned once. I feel very confident buying from someone on your website BECAUSE of your rules and regs! I think your system WORKS! I am 53 yrs old and own a Bushmaster XM15 rifle and a few other militaristic firearms ( hence my love for these airsoft guns). I have been an NRA instuctor, Been shot thru the leg with a .22 when I was 15 and been shooting all my life. I WILL NOT jump through your hoops to access your REAL STEEL section ect. That part pissed me off. Don't care what anyone does or says in an OFF TOPIC SECTION....thats what it is there for. There are obviously a LOT OF KIDS in airsoft, so you have to deal with them as such. I have bought from quite a few under the age of 18, and those have been very responsible.

#17 CFDjake

CFDjake
  • Location:Boston, MA

Posted 04 October 2009 - 10:28 AM

As stated the reason why ASF is so big is its name. Its how I found it. I don't visit here much anymore because its full of silly polls or ZOMG what crap gun should I get posts and also because of the changes in BST. There are other, better ways to generate revenue for your website. Bring back the old BST, crack down on inane posts, set stricter posting guidelines for newbies and expereinced players might start respecting and using ASF.
"It seemed to me that constant stressing of the individual rights and privileges of American citizenship had overshadowed the equally important truth that such individualism can be sustained only so long as the citizen accepts his full responsibility for the welfare of the nation that protects him in the exercise of those rights" Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Experience proves that the man who obstructs a war in which his nation is engaged, no matter whether right or wrong, occupies no enviable place in life or history. Better for him, individually, to advocate war, pestilence, and famine, than to act as obstructionist to a war already begun" Ulysess S. Grant

#18 aznriptide859

aznriptide859
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, TX

Posted 04 October 2009 - 10:35 AM

QUOTE (Blackbird @ Oct 4 2009, 10:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I WILL NOT jump through your hoops to access your REAL STEEL section ect. That part pissed me off.


I respect your experience, but there's a reason for that - real steel items require MUCH more responsibility and knowledge to handle correctly. Those without such maturity should not be allowed in those subforums, which is why the restrictions are there.


QUOTE (CFDjake @ Oct 4 2009, 10:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Bring back the old BST, crack down on inane posts, set stricter posting guidelines for newbies and expereinced players might start respecting and using ASF.


I agree with the stricter rules - that's what helps a forum stay intact and strong. That is why moderators exist - to keep a calm, civil online environment for everyone to enjoy and learn from. Mods should step up their work in keeping ASF in check.


Interested in R-Hop's and other custom work? Visit HS5 Armory! https://sites.google.../site/hsarmory/

Need an extremely reliable MOSFET for your AEG? Check out BTC Airsoft! http://www.btcairsoft.com/

#19 Razor6

Razor6
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Menomonee Falls, WI

Posted 04 October 2009 - 10:49 AM

I've pretty much dropped off ASF but since the email came I figured I might as well see what the hub-bub is all about.

1 - The BST changes are what pretty much killed it for me. There are a lot of other places to buy/sell and they don't charge so I go there. There really aren't any guarantees that can be made to protect anyone if someone is determined to rip someone off; it's the nature of commerce. Whether or not I was buying/selling it was fun to troll through the posts and see what's up there. Since the posts seemed to drop off there so did my interest level.

2 - OT sections. I've never gone to it so I have no idea what it's like here, but on other forums (airsoft and not) they either nuke it or make it member only; they are just trouble no matter how you slice it. If people want to call each other names for their religious/polictical/whatever affiliation then there are a multitude of other sites that cater just to that, why bring it to a site that's supposed to be about airsoft? Sure it brings in traffic but now it brings up "do we have more mods", "the mods need to do more", "it's elite or open", "so-so called me a bad name and now I'm sad". If a great number of people really are just coming to this site to post in OT (and getting rid of OT would drop membership in a significant way that would be bad) is it really an airsoft site? If it's worth the headache of having it then there shouldn't be complaints about the price of aspirin.

3 - As for other sections, I just don't post much because there's usually someone who says what I would so there's no point repeating it, or the topic doesn't interest me, or I don't know. That does keep my post count down which I guess equals immaturity; but then again I don't just post to have a bigger number next to my name. There are local and other "national" forums that duplicate each other so it could just be a personal choice why someone does/not come to this one, nothing more or less. Either way you're damned. Like a bar, too many bouncers and people don't come, too few and it's a madhouse.


Maybe since I got that email I'll be back and checking things out......

#20 G36fanatic...

G36fanatic...
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California, South Bay Area
  • Interests:Airsoft, Motocross, Football, Wrestling

Posted 04 October 2009 - 11:48 AM

I think we need to get some new mods. Some of them are ban happy. A lot of them are good, but Ive seen people get flamed by mods for posting in the wrong section. Its an honest mistake. Who purpously posts in the wrong section to piss people off? really? The thread was a put in the general section and it didnt really have a specific place anyway. I guess the mod had a bad day and decided to get mad cause he has "power"

anyway, I think this is part of the reason people may be not as active here anymore, I know I only come by when I need to PM people or when I really need extra opinions. Because of the ban happy mods


I don't mean to piss anyone off here. this is just an observation I have made along with a few others when talking in chat.

Edited by G36fanatic..., 04 October 2009 - 11:50 AM.


props to KOPER for the awesome sig
QUOTE
[JDM_WAAAT] 9:53 pm: I wish magpul made ps3 controllers
^^--- me too JDM, me too...

#21 apache137

apache137
  • Location:Atlanta, GA 30345
  • Interests:airsoft, women, cars, guns, computers.

Posted 04 October 2009 - 12:10 PM

I havent noticed any of these complaints....

my suggestion, everyone needs to quit their b!tch!in.....

maturity will always be a concern as long as 12 year olds horde the boards.... sooner or later its going to get over run like asr.

#22 Thumper69

Thumper69
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wichita,Ks
  • Interests:reading, xbox 360, airsoft, real steel guns, movies.

Posted 04 October 2009 - 12:36 PM

As a Mod here I would like to step in here with what I think and believe. Admin I've stated these things in the Mod section and now that this has been brought here. I'll say it so that the members can read it. I think the Off Topic section lessons the website as opposed to making it better. Delete it. I think that the BST changes are exactly what I said. and seeing that people have left because of it proves that I was right. the single largest complaint is the very changes I fought against.
Frankly if it wasn't for the fact that as a mod I have fee use I'd never even bother with it. I don't think that the site itself is falling apart. I think the fact that it's becoming a business is. The previous post mentioned some mods are ban happy. I'd be willing to bet I know which 3 they refer to. I try hard to warn first unless its just REALLY bad.

But we DO have staff that while I personally like them, are ban happy. Just some people are like that. They are great when we need to nuke a problem child though. I think that how the site was was great. I remember back in the day, when the Mods were on their jobs but were very standoffish. I try to respond to every PM I get and if someone asks me for help I give it. If I ignore it then theres no point in me being a Mod. I'm sure not doing this for fame and money. I'm doing this because I love to help others and after 20 years I've run across more than a few things that I can pass on.

I'd love to see BST go back, and love to see OT go away.
Somedays, The Dragon wins.


#23 lazyshark

lazyshark
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:WA SCW2/3 Kimber Raptor II<br />-Kimber Warrior Base<br />-Boomarms Raptor II kit<br />-Boomarms Kimber .45ACP chamber<br />-Guarder Outer Barrel<br />-Guarder 150% recoil spring<br />-Guarder Loading Nozzle<br />-Sheriff Frame pins<br />-SD Loading Nozzle Guides<br />-SD Loading Nozzle Spring<br />-Prog4 Steel Hammer Set<br />-Prog4 Steel Frame parts<br />-Prog4 Blow Piston<br />-Prog4 Floating Valve<br />-PDI Palsonite 6.01 Inner Barrel<br />-SV Extended Slide Stop<br />-SCW 2 hammer with SCW3 hop<br />-BB put in Mainspring<br /><br /><br /><br />WA Magna Speed Comp 2<br />-Guarder 150% springs<br />-WA Red Trigger<br />-CP Custom Loading Nozzle<br />-CP Custom 4 Arm Super Lightweight Leaf Spring<br />-Extended Firing Pin<br />-Prog4 Fiber Optic Front Sight<br />-Prog4 Floating Valve<br />-Prog4 Firing Pin Plate<br />-Prog4 Trigger Guard Pin

Posted 04 October 2009 - 12:45 PM

QUOTE (apache137 @ Oct 4 2009, 10:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
maturity will always be a concern as long as 12 year olds horde the boards.... sooner or later its going to get over run like asr.


I agree with Apache on this. Most people when they start airsoft will generally go to generic boards like here and ASR. I too started on those two boards. However, it is important to note that there are virtually no draws to this board for any of the more respectable members of the Airsoft Community. I have surfed the GBB pistols board many times and have not seen a single thread on Western Arms. There is no information on Classic Guns here,


**EDIT BY ADMIN - how about this, here's 11 pages of WA topics

Or how about this, here is an entire forum section dedicated to "Classic Airsoft". I could go on and on with correcting your post, but I wont. I just wanted to give two examples in case anyone reading this crap started to believe it.


...there is no information on upgrading unique guns. Rather, there is an abundance of generic information and troubleshooting for cheapo AEGs, Knock Off WE Guns and threads like "What's the best gun I can buy for X money?" There is nothing wrong with this, but you're definitely turning off a fair amount of people because of this. I understand that 80% of the people I play with in games are the same people buying these WE and JG brands, but I also notice that these same people usually do not stick with airsoft for very long, or they move on from these knock off brands and go to more unique guns and consequently move away from this board. That being said, there are plenty of new comers popping up every day. I'm just telling you why I left.

For you to be concerned with the maturity of this board is a little ridiculous considering that this board is obviously geared much more towards new comers. As for the post count thing, it all comes down to the same thing. People here tend to be new so they buy cheap things that simply look cool only to find out a week later that it isn't everything they wanted and then they fire sale because they realize airsoft costs more than $150 in the long run. Not to mention, most people selling knock off guns tend to have very little experience selling on forums, which again causes more problems. For me, I stopped coming here simply because I read practically everything this board has to offer (which was a very good amount of information, I'll give you that). It just seems to me that none of the new threads really have any new information to bring to the table. I wish you good luck in your success running this Board, but with such a generic name like AIRSOFT FORUM, I really can't see how you can avoid these issues.

Edited by admin, 04 October 2009 - 01:59 PM.
links added


#24 Goatmonger

Goatmonger
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Daly City, CA
  • Interests:Science, politics, anthropology, kayaking, rafting, and raquetball. Also playing (classical) music.

Posted 04 October 2009 - 12:58 PM

QUOTE (admin @ Oct 3 2009, 02:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How would YOU like to be able to say that YOU personally had a hand in making AirsoftForum.com THE NUMBER ONE airsoft forum in the world? This is not going to be an easy or light-hearted task. This is going to take a serious effort from each one of us. We currently have 33,000+ members registered but many of them don't come around anymore (for a multitude of reasons).


Regarding how to better represent the website: I usually come directly to the message boards, but I've been on the front page a few times (just going to http://www.airsoftforum.com/ ) and have to say it looks a bit unprofessional. Since this site is dedicated to just forums, I'd appreciate the front page making it far more clear how to get there. Currently you have to click "Join the discussion" which appears on the far right and is not emphasized. The Navigation section should also be at the top. Probably in the black strip that says "Website Announcements" and "Home" (which is a circular link taking you to the page you're on).

Also the front page and forums page are themed completely differently. You wouldn't even know they're the same site. Aside from the layout problems, I think the front page looks slick. If the forums could look like that it would be neat. However, to me that is lower priority than the other issues.

Keep up the good work!



#25 pdx650

pdx650
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Newport News, Virginia
  • Interests:airsoft, miniature models, movies, ps2

Posted 04 October 2009 - 01:00 PM

I agree with there being too many immature posts on the site. Although, I don't visit often, I know it can be a large, annoying problem. When I read topics that I search for and there are posters bantering back and forth, it is terribly counterproductive and makes me search for another more useful thread.
AGM M14 SOC 16, Galaxy MOD5 (G5K),

#26 admin

admin
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Grand Rapids, MI, USA
  • SOA Name: admin

  • My Temperament:7,7,2,8

Posted 04 October 2009 - 01:25 PM

QUOTE (Goatmonger @ Oct 4 2009, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Regarding how to better represent the website: I usually come directly to the message boards, but I've been on the front page a few times (just going to http://www.airsoftforum.com/ ) and have to say it looks a bit unprofessional. Since this site is dedicated to just forums, I'd appreciate the front page making it far more clear how to get there. Currently you have to click "Join the discussion" which appears on the far right and is not emphasized. The Navigation section should also be at the top. Probably in the black strip that says "Website Announcements" and "Home" (which is a circular link taking you to the page you're on).

Also the front page and forums page are themed completely differently. You wouldn't even know they're the same site. Aside from the layout problems, I think the front page looks slick. If the forums could look like that it would be neat. However, to me that is lower priority than the other issues.

Keep up the good work!


thanks for the input. If you check the drop down menu at the top right of this page you will see that there are 10 different color schemes to choose from here on the forums so it is impossible to satisfy the "the front page and forums page are themed completely differently" part of your issue.

I don't know if your aware of the fact that members can change their color scheme here or not, but I thought I'd remind everyone about it. Thanks for the input on the navigation though, I'll see what I can do about that.

QUOTE (pdx650 @ Oct 4 2009, 02:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree with there being too many immature posts on the site. Although, I don't visit often, I know it can be a large, annoying problem. When I read topics that I search for and there are posters bantering back and forth, it is terribly counterproductive and makes me search for another more useful thread.


any ideas on how to fix that ? I know we have a lot of newbies and children on here and we like to think that we help teach those people how not to be newbies but if you have suggestions on how to fix this issue please let us know as we try our best to make ASF a friendly place for both newbies, children and adults. It's impossible to satisfy each of those groups 100% of the time but I am looking for input on how to find a balance

od712m_tn.jpg

Click for Pinzgauer Project info !

 

Click Here to Help us Buy It

 


#27 admin

admin
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Grand Rapids, MI, USA
  • SOA Name: admin

  • My Temperament:7,7,2,8

Posted 04 October 2009 - 01:50 PM

You know I knew there was going to be one in the crowd that I was going to have to get ruff with. Earlier I commented on the "brutal replies" but they had merit. This next one does not, so with a sigh, let me start in and really embarrass someone for being a moron...

I really hate to do this and I will try to refrain from from it further but some people just really know how to get under my skin with retarded censored2.gif comments like these next ones...

QUOTE (lazyshark @ Oct 4 2009, 01:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
... Most people when they start airsoft will generally go to generic boards like here and ASR.
that is utter censored2.gif, but ok - I hear you.

QUOTE (lazyshark @ Oct 4 2009, 01:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...it is important to note that there are virtually no draws to this board for any of the more respectable members of the Airsoft Community. I have surfed the GBB pistols board many times and have not seen a single thread on Western Arms. There is no information on Classic Guns here, there is no information on upgrading unique guns. Rather, there is an abundance of generic information and troubleshooting for cheapo AEGs, Knock Off WE Guns and threads like "What's the best gun I can buy for X money?"


again more complete censored2.gif, but I appreciate your input as ignorant as it may appear to be (that's not an insult, 'ignorance' simply means you're clueless).

I can link you to hundreds of topics on every issue you just named. In fact we have entire sections / forums dedicated to several of those issues. do you even know how to use this website or should I infer what I need to know about your screen name or number of posts? Again that's not an insult, it just pissed me off when people comment on issues they have no idea about - but continue...

QUOTE (lazyshark @ Oct 4 2009, 01:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
.... For you to be concerned with the maturity of this board is a little ridiculous considering that this board is obviously geared much more towards new comers.


to suggest that all newcomers to ASF are immature really pisses me off, but continue...

QUOTE (lazyshark @ Oct 4 2009, 01:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...As for the post count thing, it all comes down to the same thing. People here tend to be new so they buy cheap things that simply look cool only to find out a week later that it isn't everything they wanted and then they fire sale because they realize airsoft costs more than $150 in the long run.


WOW. first of all, people here do not "tend to be new". we have members here who have been active for years. And secondly, just because someone may be new to airsoft doesn't automatically mean they buy crap or that we condone the use of crap for new players.

Frankly, I'm glad you did leave ASF because you sound like a total elitist arrogant inflammatory idiot and we definitely don't want or need that here.

QUOTE (lazyshark @ Oct 4 2009, 01:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...For me, I stopped coming here simply because I read practically everything this board has to offer (which was a very good amount of information, I'll give you that).


So you mean to tell me that you read through 2.5 million posts in the short amount of time that you have been here, posted one message and now you know enough about all this to comment authoritatively - nice.

QUOTE (lazyshark @ Oct 4 2009, 01:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...It just seems to me that none of the new threads really have any new information to bring to the table. I wish you good luck in your success running this Board, but with such a generic name like AIRSOFT FORUM, I really can't see how you can avoid these issues.


Well at least you ended your post with something respectable - thank you. Firstly "Airsoft Forum" is not a "generic name", It's great if I do say so myself. Additionally, that has absolutely nothing at all to do "with these issues" - but thanks for the comments as unfounded as they may be.

Does anyone else want to post some retarded censored2.gif comments like these?

od712m_tn.jpg

Click for Pinzgauer Project info !

 

Click Here to Help us Buy It

 


#28 p4ndora

p4ndora
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Littleton MA
  • Interests:Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?<br /><br />I like memes. The more obscure, the better.

Posted 04 October 2009 - 02:13 PM

I personally spend a great deal of time in the OT section, and love it. I'm fine with it being in the Elite section, but I would ask you not to delete it.

I haven't noticed an excessive amount of immaturity in the OT section. Sure, you get the one or two people that just need a ban/suspension, but it's nothing serious. I haven't noticed the OT spilling onto other boards either.

I personally think too many people are overreacting, and we're being punished because they can't handle it.

Your friendly neighborhood melodic deathmetal fanatic. Props to Koper for the sig.
Member of the Day 4/8/10, as bestowed by Lonewolf1990.

#29 Tux

Tux
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Georgia
  • Interests:Airsoft, The Art of Being a Sniper, Field Craft, Precision Shooting, Computers, Networking

Posted 04 October 2009 - 02:19 PM

I'd like to make the point that I only moderate things now-adays that are blatant rule violations. We have no filtering criteria in place for members who are non-contributive or just plain dumb. Additionally, I personally feel if I did moderate in such a way that people (including mods) would get ticked at me.

Anyway, the non-contributing people I am talking about are the "what kind of gun iz gud??" type posters. Yes, they deserve a warning the first time but after that, it they don't clean up their language and their way of representing themselves on this forum, they need to go. The general acceptance of these types of people is what causes most people to leave ASF. The bad thing about that is that the people who leave end up being the intelligent people we want to keep.

I typically roam the upgrades and Sniper Rifle forums. I never see any posts anymore about projects, tuning etc. The forums are basically a haven now for people wanting help on "which gun is good" and "what upgrades are good". Now, I'm not saying these posts are bad, but I am saying just having that type of content alone is just sad.

Furthermore the comment about scams being "non-existent" kind of makes me feel unappreciated. In the past months since the BST changeover I have been involved in over a handful of issues related to scammers. I guess those issues, which took hours out of my time, should have been ignored since they were "non-existent".



Oh and as a side note, I believe the OT discussions will now migrate over to the General forum now that OT has been moved. Just a warning.

Edited by Tux, 04 October 2009 - 02:22 PM.


#30 admin

admin
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Grand Rapids, MI, USA
  • SOA Name: admin

  • My Temperament:7,7,2,8

Posted 04 October 2009 - 02:28 PM

QUOTE (Tux @ Oct 4 2009, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...Furthermore the comment about scams being "non-existent" kind of makes me feel unappreciated. In the past months since the BST changeover I have been involved in over a handful of issues related to scammers. I guess those issues, which took hours out of my time, should have been ignored since they were "non-existent".


thanks for the input Tux. sorry about my comment on that. I didn't mean to insult you or your efforts. I think I'm gonna have to plead ignorance on that one because I guess I either wasn't aware of the problems or forgot. Either way, sorry about that bud.

I guess what I meant was that... I am feeling like the changes in the BST forums have been positive and have reduced if not eliminated many of the problems and scams as far as I knew.

For anyone that is clueless about the BST changes, basically we changed it so that you either had to pay for immediate access or you had to also promise to use the SportsOnlyAuction.com (SOA) website and your For-sale topics here would be allowed for free. Charging anything at all, even $5 for the entire year was apparently enough to send a lot of people packing as they really couldn't care less that it costs us money to offer a free resource like this.

od712m_tn.jpg

Click for Pinzgauer Project info !

 

Click Here to Help us Buy It

 


#31 JohnJack

JohnJack

Posted 04 October 2009 - 02:49 PM

QUOTE (Tux @ Oct 4 2009, 12:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I typically roam the upgrades and Sniper Rifle forums. I never see any posts anymore about projects, tuning etc. The forums are basically a haven now for people wanting help on "which gun is good" and "what upgrades are good". Now, I'm not saying these posts are bad, but I am saying just having that type of content alone is just sad.

Oh and as a side note, I believe the OT discussions will now migrate over to the General forum now that OT has been moved. Just a warning.


I agree. Unlike some spots on the ASR forums, there seems to be a friendlier atmosphere here. I find more information here about ACM level airsoft and the other HQ brands. I would like to see a place where those of us that swap out RS external parts on airsoft replicas could find reviews/advice about doing so that is mature and concise.

On the whole, I'm happy with the site. Haven't posted much because most of my questions are answered. a-salute.gif


#32 Fricken Hamster

Fricken Hamster

Posted 04 October 2009 - 03:09 PM

A lot of people do come here only because it is the first result for "airsoft forums"
I know I did.

Noone is going to scroll through a few pages on google just to find a random airsoft site to ask newbie questions.
Anti Guay&Guay guns
QUOTE (serano @ Apr 10 2009, 07:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
airsoft is a fashion show, the winner is the best looking, and hey if you look good then you feel good and thats what airsoft is about having fun and being with cool people

QFT

#33 TechnoMagi

TechnoMagi
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Birdsboro, PA
  • Interests:Airsoft, 40K, all kinds of stuff.

Posted 04 October 2009 - 03:34 PM

QUOTE (admin @ Oct 4 2009, 10:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The reason we are #2 or #3 in the world is NOT "because of the domain name". We are a great forum because of the effort put into it by the staff and members and the positive way we treat people here.


It is, mate. Don't try and deny that. You can't come here and tell people your forum is the best as if it is a fact, because it isn't. That is your opinion, and don't ask for our opinions if your going to deny everything we claim.
Simply put, members come here when they start to play because they google Airsoft Forum, and find this site because of its generic name. Don't try and deny that. In fact, why not put up a thread about why people joined? You'll see that a ton of us joined solely on that premise.

And yes, Airsoft Forum is about as generic as it gets, don't refute that. Its about airsoft, and it's a forum. I'm not seeing this 'great' name.

QUOTE
For anyone that is clueless about the BST changes, basically we changed it so that you either had to pay for immediate access or you had to also promise to use the SportsOnlyAuction.com (SOA) website and your For-sale topics here would be allowed for free. Charging anything at all, even $5 for the entire year was apparently enough to send a lot of people packing as they really couldn't care less that it costs us money to offer a free resource like this.


Correct. I'm not paying a cent or putting out extra effort to sell anything. It reduced scams only because you cut the sheer volume of sales down by a fairly large number. Reduce the whole, you'll reduce the fraction. People are still being scammed, however. You didn't fix anything; but rather broke the BST. Don't even try to justify us paying $5, even for a year.
You already have a donation box, and should be taking in a huge sum of ad revenue. How do you think any other board survives? A good plenty of them aren't forcing cash out of their patron's wallets. While I don't see many ads here, you can easily place more without them being obtrusive. Most members won't mind an ad or two at the bottom of the page or along the side, flush with the page colours as long as it keeps everything free.

If your looking for feedback, you can't come in here gloating about the great job you did, and ignore the honest feedback of members. Admin, it seems to me you came in here looking to argue with anyone who refutes your opinion, rather than take in the information you asked for. That isn't a good way to run a website.


Current guns:
WE 3.8 Hicapa, TM Desert Eagle
Modified CA B&T Mp5/Mp5k hybrid
KJW M4 GBBr
CYMA M14, DE M3 shotgun

#34 Tux

Tux
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Georgia
  • Interests:Airsoft, The Art of Being a Sniper, Field Craft, Precision Shooting, Computers, Networking

Posted 04 October 2009 - 03:40 PM

QUOTE (admin @ Oct 4 2009, 03:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
thanks for the input Tux. sorry about my comment on that. I didn't mean to insult you or your efforts. I think I'm gonna have to plead ignorance on that one because I guess I either wasn't aware of the problems or forgot. Either way, sorry about that bud.

I guess what I meant was that... I am feeling like the changes in the BST forums have been positive and have reduced if not eliminated many of the problems and scams as far as I knew.

For anyone that is clueless about the BST changes, basically we changed it so that you either had to pay for immediate access or you had to also promise to use the SportsOnlyAuction.com (SOA) website and your For-sale topics here would be allowed for free. Charging anything at all, even $5 for the entire year was apparently enough to send a lot of people packing as they really couldn't care less that it costs us money to offer a free resource like this.

Thanks. It really takes a lot of patience to deal with scammers.


I also would agree I joined ASF just because of the name. It was the first result and I've pretty much stuck with it ever since.

#35 OpSic66

OpSic66
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:sillicon valley, CA

Posted 04 October 2009 - 04:14 PM

QUOTE (erk @ Oct 4 2009, 04:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm in agreement, people can smell it when you are trying to be profitable on a website.


I'm baffled by this. People can smell a website trying to be profitable. Ok, I'll give you that. But people can also see if a site is a breeding ground for scammers. People also dislike being completely bent over by seller fee's on ebay.

ASF is cheaper then ebay, about the same level of safety is to be found since a seller must either list the item FOR FREE on sportsonlyauctions.com and then can cross post it to ASF. Or can pay a small fee to avoid that inconvenience. I'm failing to see how ASF charging a small percentage of it's user base, a small fee to skip listing on SOA to sell items on ASF. Is "being profitable". Especially considering the amount of money that goes into running a high volume web server.

While I am not denying your opinion. I'm saying your opinion is a bit over dramatic.

QUOTE (CFDjake @ Oct 4 2009, 08:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As stated the reason why ASF is so big is its name. Its how I found it. I don't visit here much anymore because its full of silly polls or ZOMG what crap gun should I get posts and also because of the changes in BST. There are other, better ways to generate revenue for your website. Bring back the old BST, crack down on inane posts, set stricter posting guidelines for newbies and expereinced players might start respecting and using ASF.


To be honest with you. I don't think you have paid much attention to ASF in the first place. "We" as moderators, with the backing of the Admins, have tried strict rules. We've attempted to moderate the BST section as strict as we could. It made little change, and consumed so much time for the moderators (and admins at times) that other areas (thinking of OT and general sections specifically) to become over run with "inane" junk posting.

It's a battle of multiple areas, with multiple different moderators. All with their own personal spin on how the rules should be, and are to be enforced and or even modified if need be. There is NO perfect system. I'll be one of the few to also say your opinion is a bit harsh, but it is all well needed and appreciated input. Input that we value and can use to gauge what really needs to be done.

However, everyone also needs to see, and hopefully agree upon, That everyone can not be made happy at the same time.

What has happened to the BST section, did indeed cut down upon users who were doing nothing but posting items here for sale. They never contributed any sort of content to the site. Heck many of them were registered here for years, with a "zero post count", yet had literally dozens to hundreds of posts only in the BST section. While I don't really have much of a problem with that. The problem that I did have was many of these users were doing a couple of things that were a problem.

Many were coming here to ONLY list items on this site, while having the same item listed on other sites. And basically running it as "highest offer gets it". While sure I have no problem with users running auctions. I personally feel disgusted by the person's dishonesty to the buyer in doing this. It's unfair, it's definitely not right. Unless that is, it's a public auction, on ONE site, and fair to ALL parties involved. It also dramatically cuts down on scams, and the odds of being scammed in the first place drop dramatically.

While no one yet, has complimented ASF's staff on virtually eliminating the scamming that was (for lack of a better way to say it) running rampant a couple of months back. Everyone has been super quick to judge that we've made the process of selling on ASF alone, more difficult.

Changes bring both good and bad, equally, to ALL users. This means making scamming HARDER, but require the honest people to make a couple more steps. Personally, I see the trade off as completely worth it.


For what it is worth. ASF was not the first airsoft site I ran across. However due to its much easier (at the time) to navigate content. The way it was FREE to comment on said content, and the not so trigger happy moderation. It was the first, and only one that I did register for. I still from time to time keep an eye on other airsoft sites. And well, there's a reason I am still an ASF member, and not a active member of any other airsoft forum.

Edited by OpSic66, 04 October 2009 - 04:17 PM.


#36 admin

admin
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Grand Rapids, MI, USA
  • SOA Name: admin

  • My Temperament:7,7,2,8

Posted 04 October 2009 - 04:24 PM

Looks like I need to address another person who either cannot read or is also a moron.

QUOTE (admin @ Oct 4 2009, 10:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The reason we are #2 or #3 in the world is NOT "because of the domain name". We are a great forum because of the effort put into it by the staff and members and the positive way we treat people here.

QUOTE (TechnoMagi @ Oct 4 2009, 04:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It is, mate. Don't try and deny that. You can't come here and tell people your forum is the best as if it is a fact, because it isn't. That is your opinion, and don't ask for our opinions if your going to deny everything we claim. Simply put, members come here when they start to play because they google Airsoft Forum, and find this site because of its generic name. Don't try and deny that. In fact, why not put up a thread about why people joined? You'll see that a ton of us joined solely on that premise.


#1 google as well as many other top search engines rank and rate a website based on many many factors such as the number of other sites linking to it, the quality and content of the site, the key words, tags and many other html components, as well as the traffic and number of visitors visiting the website, not just the domain name. Sorry sir, but you are also clueless.

#2 I did not say, nor have I ever said that ASF is "the best". In fact what I said was that we are the number 2 / number 3 website in the world based on traffic and had you actually read what I said, perhaps you would not be embarrassing yourself here either.

Simply take yourself to http://www.alexa.com...irsoftforum.com and compare the traffic details to your favorite airsoft forum and see for yourself. It is not my opinion that ASF is a very large and popular website. Now please kindly take your head out of your censored2.gif and post responsibly - thanks.

for your information google only accounts for 24.68% of our total traffic and of the top key word phrases for this website "Airsoft forum is only one of many.

#3, I am not denying anyone of their opinions, I am simply shedding some light on the less than accurate comments. To deny them, would be to just delete them outright.

QUOTE (TechnoMagi @ Oct 4 2009, 04:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...And yes, Airsoft Forum is about as generic as it gets, don't refute that. Its about airsoft, and it's a forum. I'm not seeing this 'great' name.


"Airsoft Forum" is probably THE BEST word phrase you could have regarding an airsoft forum you moron, it is not some lame generic word combination that we got by accident and just by coincidence are getting traffic because of it. You have to be a total clueless moronic idiot to believe that. If that were true then everyone and their little sister could have the most popular website out there for every word phrase of interest starting with "gun forum" and so on (which by the way, gunforum.com is not even in the top 20 google results you idiot) - yes I'm pissed and yes that was an insult. If you want to start slinging facts around - you better get yours straight.

QUOTE
For anyone that is clueless about the BST changes, basically we changed it so that you either had to pay for immediate access or you had to also promise to use the SportsOnlyAuction.com (SOA) website and your For-sale topics here would be allowed for free. Charging anything at all, even $5 for the entire year was apparently enough to send a lot of people packing as they really couldn't care less that it costs us money to offer a free resource like this.

QUOTE (TechnoMagi @ Oct 4 2009, 04:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...Correct. I'm not paying a cent or putting out extra effort to sell anything. It reduced scams only because you cut the sheer volume of sales down by a fairly large number. Reduce the whole, you'll reduce the fraction. People are still being scammed, however. You didn't fix anything; but rather broke the BST. Don't even try to justify us paying $5, even for a year.


WOW. ok, well I appreciate your opinion, but people who pay for something generally value it more than something that is given to them for free and thus tend to not abuse it. Additionally, for people that refuse to pay and desire to milk or bilk a system for free without contributing to its cost and upkeep are generally less than scrupulous in my opinion in the first place. If you knew someone that was an actor and produced a movie, would you buy a copy of that DVD to support them or would you steal a copy of it from the local walmart?

Oh, you don't steel.. Would you borrow that DVD from a friend and burn a copy or would you buy it to show your support for this person you supposedly care about? These are rhetorical questions not to be answered but for you to check your morals with. Generally when people appreciate something, they like to or aspire to contribute to its success, not figure out every little way they can abuse it or take advantage of it for free - but that's a moral lesson many of the complainers here may not, nor ever understand unfortunately.

QUOTE (TechnoMagi @ Oct 4 2009, 04:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...You already have a donation box, and should be taking in a huge sum of ad revenue. How do you think any other board survives? A good plenty of them aren't forcing cash out of their patron's wallets. While I don't see many ads here, you can easily place more without them being obtrusive. Most members won't mind an ad or two at the bottom of the page or along the side, flush with the page colours as long as it keeps everything free.


again, you are speaking out of your censored2.gif on topics you know nothing about. #1 we do not take in "huge sums of ad revenue". Also, our donation system has received about $200 since its installation earlier this year - that's many months with very few people donating. One month alone costs me personally $198 for this server alone. Additionally, a vow from the start of this website was that we would never over-run this place with banner ads and pop-ups. If you prefer that, then go somewhere else. This is another reason why people love ASF, because we do NOT blast ads all over the place or spam them all the time with sales copy.

And to answer your question, many websites out there do charge money and much more than we do on many levels for your information. Pretty much everything we do charge for can be found on other sites for much more of an expense than what we charge for certain things.

QUOTE (TechnoMagi @ Oct 4 2009, 04:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...If your looking for feedback, you can't come in here gloating about the great job you did, and ignore the honest feedback of members. Admin, it seems to me you came in here looking to argue with anyone who refutes your opinion, rather than take in the information you asked for. That isn't a good way to run a website.


WTF man, nobody is gloating about anything you stupid moron. This entire topic is about asking for member input. The only 2 places that I said anything positive about what we are doing here is that "airsoftforum.com is a good name" and that ASF is the second or 3rd largest airsoft forum in the world because it is, that's not my opinion. one more outburst of idiocy or stupid censored2.gif comments and you're done - so keep it up.

od712m_tn.jpg

Click for Pinzgauer Project info !

 

Click Here to Help us Buy It

 


#37 Blak110

Blak110
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Annapolis, Maryland
  • Interests:Airsoft, hunting, building stuff, hiking, video games, skiing, biking, motorsports, soccer, track running, weight lifting, political discussions, &amp; modern military history and tactics.

Posted 04 October 2009 - 04:57 PM

As I see, it, OT has gone downhill, I agree with you, but it's getting scapegoated for the forum's other problems. Most of the junk we have here nowadays is not in OT, it's liitle kids and idiots that make useless topics without having the intelligence or skill to read the manuals/forums before posting. If I could be Dictator of ASF For A Day, I would:

1.) Police the OT section so that random stuff stays in "Funny Stuff" and the rest of OT is simply for stuff not pertaining to airsoft.

2.) Be very hard on new members so that we can weed out the idiots before they cause any damage.

3.) Have a 1wk suspension for anyone who makes a dumb/stupid thread like "Y DOSNT MY DEEGLE WERK LOL"

4.) Set OT up like a forum I used to be on (acecombatskies) did: General OT (I'd have "Funny Stuff" as a subcategory here), Military-related, Automotive-related, Video Game-related, and Firearms-related. We'd have less clutter and easier moderation due to mods not having to wade through topics that are completely unrelated to each other.

5.) Specialized mods. The sniper/sniper rifle-related sections would be run by someone who actually is involved with airsoft sniping, BST mods would be people who have lots of experience with internet sales, etc.

Edited by Blak110, 04 October 2009 - 05:00 PM.

The strength of the pack is the wolf

thanks to eege for the epic sig.
QUOTE (Kavurcen @ Feb 23 2010, 11:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No, I got that, but I'm just interested in how you would light someone on fire at an airsoft skirmish.

#38 flammenwerfer

flammenwerfer
  • Gender:Male

Posted 04 October 2009 - 04:58 PM

I've been playing airsoft for about 6 years now, and I've been a member of these forums for the past 3 years (I think...maybe longer). I don't have the highest post count and I occasionally can act immature or newbie-ish. I'm 17. What more do you want from me?

But what I can say is this: Airsoft Forum has helped me "grow up and mature." I think it is a great forum for old and new members alike. I enjoy all the things that the members, the mods, and the admins do to make this forum the great place that it is, and I think many people don't take enough time to appreciate that.

I don't like some of the changes that were made, but they're not extreme enough to drive me away from ASF. Sure the new BST forum rules are annoying, but I still paid. Sure the OTF is annoying, but if it really bothers you THAT much, don't read the posts.

I think the mods and the admins try hard to make this forum one of the top airsoft forums, and although some of them make unwise decisions, its still a great forum, and I challenge anyone to say its not.

I'm not trying to suck up to anyone, just simply donating my 2 cents, which happen to be a bit more optimistic than some others.

Edited by flammenwerfer, 04 October 2009 - 05:00 PM.


#39 THCfox

THCfox
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cupertino, CA or Riverside, CA
  • Interests:Airsoft, graduating college and making a 6 figure salary, my gf, woodworking, gardening, Scrabble.

Posted 04 October 2009 - 05:50 PM

QUOTE (flammenwerfer @ Oct 4 2009, 02:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've been playing airsoft for about 6 years now, and I've been a member of these forums for the past 3 years (I think...maybe longer). I don't have the highest post count and I occasionally can act immature or newbie-ish. I'm 17. What more do you want from me?

But what I can say is this: Airsoft Forum has helped me "grow up and mature." I think it is a great forum for old and new members alike. I enjoy all the things that the members, the mods, and the admins do to make this forum the great place that it is, and I think many people don't take enough time to appreciate that.

I don't like some of the changes that were made, but they're not extreme enough to drive me away from ASF. Sure the new BST forum rules are annoying, but I still paid. Sure the OTF is annoying, but if it really bothers you THAT much, don't read the posts.

I think the mods and the admins try hard to make this forum one of the top airsoft forums, and although some of them make unwise decisions, its still a great forum, and I challenge anyone to say its not.

I'm not trying to suck up to anyone, just simply donating my 2 cents, which happen to be a bit more optimistic than some others.


+1 for this opinion. To address some things

OT- First off, I've always regarded the off topic forum as a place for people to let off some steam and stupidity. Sure inflammatory things pop up, but that's going to occur naturally when there is no fixed point of interest to discuss. In the same way that I don't surf white supremacy sites because I'm not a racist, if you don't want to see the content of the OT, don't visit.

BST- I have only had good experiences with this part, and while yes the SOA website is a tad confusing, I just don't use it, preferring instead to talk to the people I'm buying from and making sure that my stuff will arrive and both parties will be satisfied. On the issue of a $5 fee for selling, y'all need to get your 1950's price inflation denying heads out of the Idiocy Pond. That's a freaking Subway sandwich, minus the drink and chips. A WoW subscription costs $20 a month, and if MILLIONS of people can deal with paying that, a comparative handful of thousands of sellers can deal with $5 a year.

Maturity- This is one topic that I'll fight to the tooth over. I am amazed, that's right, freaking astonished, by the excellent level of maturity on this forum. To give a shout out to just a few, maruipro, Stealthmaster, and Vainguard are some of the nicest, most professional, and helpful people on this forum. What makes that fact all the more baller is the fact that these guys are the same age or younger than I am (and at 19, that's pretty cool). Furthermore, what drew me to this site and helped turn airsoft into the hobby many of us know and love is the fact that happy, :pain:, and Newbie aren't a routine part of responding to somebody's post. In an age where the internet is often little more than trolling, flaming, and the disgusting views of dissolute people, ASF, through the help of its awesome admins and moderators, defies the stereotype and provides a clean environment where airsoft can be discussed maturely and rationally, without the need for instigation.

In short, keep up the good work guys. a-grin.gif

My New Sale of AEG's, NBB's, GBB's, and Wonderfulness
Need help with your AEG? Feel free to PM for live tech service via AIM.
Team THC, Assault
I am rapidly descending into the darkness of Chairsofting

Props to KOPER

#40 admin

admin
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Grand Rapids, MI, USA
  • SOA Name: admin

  • My Temperament:7,7,2,8

Posted 04 October 2009 - 06:00 PM

Thank you guys to those of you that have given "constructive" criticism and helpful advise. I have tried to respond many of your concerns and opinions and for those that I did not, please note that they are very much appreciated and I read each and everyone of them:

BengalProductions
Blackbird
Razor6
Thumper69
OpSic66
flammenwerfer
THCfox

At this point, this topic is about to spill over onto page two and so far, at this point, the Off-Topic Forum (OTF) has been moved to the hidden forums area where only certain members can view or access. The Buy-Sell-Trade (BST) issues have yet to be resolved and we are considering many of your opinions.

If you would like to continue the discussion, please post a reply or view page two of this. If you post derogatory stuff or other wrong or useless info such as a few people have done above, please note that you will be equally embarrassed publicly as they have been so if you have something negative to say, please do it in a constructive way - not a way that appears to be insulting or arrogant. If you're not sure what I mean about that, then simply review some of the comments I made above where I had to eviscerate a couple of people for making asinine comments.

Please also note that contrary to popular belief we do appreciate your input both positive and negative and only rape and pillage the morons.

-enjoy the show

od712m_tn.jpg

Click for Pinzgauer Project info !

 

Click Here to Help us Buy It

 





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users