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Airsoft "G-hop"


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59 replies to this topic

#1 league 4

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 01:37 AM





Anyone know about what the G hop is? Where to get one? I searched the sight over and over and I can't find anything about it. I'm pretty sure it has some modification to the nozzle and the nub and hopup arm, maybe some spacers on the barrel or something.
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#2 ultradodger

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 12:45 PM

The absolute closest thing I can even find is this...

http://translate.goo...zshisSymdbYoKdA

Adjusting to the hop up arm on an M99. I don't know if this same technique could be used for a regular AEG.
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#3 league 4

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 05:16 PM

I don't even really understand what he said he did to the hopup arm either... Something about adding a spring to it to give more friction I guess.
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#4 OpSic66

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 06:42 PM

77m is only 250 feet. Not exactly what I would consider "impressive" distance for 328 Fps with a .2 bb.
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#5 Suzaku

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 07:43 PM

From what I can tell, what he did was to add a spring onto the top of a hop-up arm so that it wouldn't move as much when the gun is fired.

When every airsoft gun is fired the plastic hop-up arm flexes upwards a tiny bit and then returns to its normal position, I'm guessing this is one of his solutions to eliminate that issue.
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#6 Stealthmaster14

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 08:04 PM

QUOTE (OpSic66 @ Oct 4 2009, 07:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
77m is only 250 feet. Not exactly what I would consider "impressive" distance for 328 Fps with a .2 bb.


If the trajectory is level (which I HIGHLY doubt it is), then I would say it is pretty impressive.
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#7 YesOfficer

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 12:00 AM

QUOTE (OpSic66 @ Oct 4 2009, 07:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
77m is only 250 feet. Not exactly what I would consider "impressive" distance for 328 Fps with a .2 bb.

really? I guess my standards aren't high enough then. My M14 wouldn't even reach 250feet with a flat trajectory at 400fps with .28s accurately enough to hit that size table
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#8 OpSic66

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 12:50 AM

QUOTE (YesOfficer @ Oct 4 2009, 10:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
really? I guess my standards aren't high enough then. My M14 wouldn't even reach 250feet with a flat trajectory at 400fps with .28s accurately enough to hit that size table


Think about it. a .2 bb <AT> 328 fps, making it 250ft accuratly. The math alone doesn't support this as being "likely possible".
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#9 Stealthmaster14

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 02:01 AM

QUOTE (OpSic66 @ Oct 5 2009, 12:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Think about it. a .2 bb <AT> 328 fps, making it 250ft accuratly. The math alone doesn't support this as being "likely possible".


Wait, I'm confused now. a-confused.gif

Are you saying that it really isn't likely and that the shooter probably has a gun shooting hotter than 1 joule?

QUOTE
77m is only 250 feet. Not exactly what I would consider "impressive" distance for 328 Fps with a .2 bb.


Because here, it sounds like you aren't impressed by a gun shooting 1 joule hitting a target at 250 feet.

Edited by Stealthmaster14, 05 October 2009 - 02:09 AM.

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#10 OpSic66

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 02:06 AM

QUOTE (Stealthmaster14 @ Oct 5 2009, 12:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wait, I'm confused now. a-confused.gif

Are you saying that it really isn't likely and that the shooter probably has a gun shooting hotter than 1 joule?

Because here, it sounds like you aren't impressed by a gun shooting 1 joule hitting a target at 250 feet.


I'm saying in a sarcastic manner, That I am not impressed. I don't believe that he has a 328 fps with .20's gun, hitting 250ft.

Edited by OpSic66, 05 October 2009 - 02:09 AM.

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#11 Suzaku

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 02:35 AM

QUOTE (OpSic66 @ Oct 5 2009, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm saying in a sarcastic manner, That I am not impressed. I don't believe that he has a 328 fps with .20's gun, hitting 250ft.


I agree with OPSic, it will take a lot more fps than just 328 to hit a target at 250 feet.
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#12 G36canen

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 02:52 AM

Yeaa you probably should have clarified because I was rather confused about that post as well.
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#13 MasKila

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 12:39 PM

QUOTE (OpSic66 @ Oct 5 2009, 03:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm saying in a sarcastic manner, That I am not impressed. I don't believe that he has a 328 fps with .20's gun, hitting 250ft.

I had this happen to me while I was helping WatZ (used to be a member here) measure out the distance his classic guns with LRB's could shoot with my 300' tape measure.

We were at 260 feet and our friend (Mishkan, an admin of NJAA -New Jersey Airsoft Association-) took a pop-shot burst at me (aimed through simple iron sights), and he hit me believe it or not. His gun was an older, stock CA shooting 330 FPS with .2's (he was using .25's I think though).

You can also check with RiotSC, the admin for AirsoftMechanics.com. He's done his own version of these hop-up mods and was hitting 280/300 feet (although he was at 1 joule, while I believe the video of the gun was at .79 if my memory serves).

These shots are possible, but just rare, and sometimes (like what I experienced) simply a fluke that couldn't be recreated again (as in Mishkan tried to hit me again with an incredibly long burst, and couldn't). For me, I'm impressed if my 500 FPS with .25's DM rifle can accurately hit a man at past 250 feet within a couple shots.
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#14 DM Hackle

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 12:44 PM

I also agree, no matter what you do there is no way to keep a level trjaectory and hit a target 250 feet away at 330 fps(1j). Even at 530 fps(2.5j) it is fairly difficult.

Now even with an arced trajectory you would have HUGE variables on such a lightwiegh object flying so far.

Edited by DM Hackle, 05 October 2009 - 12:45 PM.

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#15 Quizzor

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 03:19 PM

QUOTE (Suzaku @ Oct 4 2009, 07:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
From what I can tell, what he did was to add a spring onto the top of a hop-up arm so that it wouldn't move as much when the gun is fired.

When every airsoft gun is fired the plastic hop-up arm flexes upwards a tiny bit and then returns to its normal position, I'm guessing this is one of his solutions to eliminate that issue.

Can someone test if this actually improves anything? And test between different types of nubs/buckings.
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#16 league 4

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 11:29 PM

I didn't ask if it's possible, because it clearly is in the video. If you doubt it, good for you. But this topic is about what the "G HOP" is, not if the shots are possible.

Did anyone have any more luck finding anything about it?
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#17 OpSic66

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 12:01 AM

QUOTE (league 4 @ Oct 5 2009, 09:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I didn't ask if it's possible, because it clearly is in the video. If you doubt it, good for you. But this topic is about what the "G HOP" is, not if the shots are possible.

Did anyone have any more luck finding anything about it?

Don't be such a smartass.

What I'm getting at, is..
Just because he captured something on a video of granular quality, still doesn't absolutely rule out that it hasn't been edited.

The MATH doesn't support this guy's claims.

Now if you literally look at how a hopup is contructed, and how much force the BB can transfer through the bucking and nub into the hopup arm. I'm willing to bet it CAN NOT press the hopup arm the width of a human hair, out from the point it's adjusted at.
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#18 ultradodger

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 10:37 AM

Actually, he was using G&G .28 in the first video. Also, RiotSC of AirsoftMechanic's had this to say...

QUOTE
IIRC, the first one to apply the G-HOP mod was Takahashi-san during one of the group's 30-meter challenge meets earlier in the year. Apparently it worked well enough that others (including gungineer's operator Barrett Ishioka) started doing the mod too. From the information I have gathered, it was based on TM VSR G-SPEC's design, thus the name G-HOP. Of course, without seeing the specific modifications, I can only speculate at this


Sounds about right to me. The TM G-spec is widely known as the best hop up design in airsoft.
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#19 OpSic66

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 01:44 PM

QUOTE (ultradodger @ Oct 6 2009, 08:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Actually, he was using G&G .28 in the first video. Also, RiotSC of AirsoftMechanic's had this to say...



Sounds about right to me. The TM G-spec is widely known as the best hop up design in airsoft.


Ok so, we've heard it from a well known airsoft tweaking guru, and even he said he's speculating on what was done.

Also, lets do the math. 328fps with .2 = 1 joule. with .28's were looking at an even LOWER fps.

I know from first hand experience, you ain't getting a .27 or .28 accuratly out to 275 feet, UNDER 400 Fps.
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#20 Stealthmaster14

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 01:54 PM

QUOTE (OpSic66 @ Oct 6 2009, 02:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ok so, we've heard it from a well known airsoft tweaking guru, and even he said he's speculating on what was done.

Also, lets do the math. 328fps with .2 = 1 joule. with .28's were looking at an even LOWER fps.

I know from first hand experience, you ain't getting a .27 or .28 accuratly out to 275 feet, UNDER 400 Fps.


I'm at about 370 fps with .2 and with .25s, it takes a lot of hop to get the bbs out to 200 feet. (you would have to aim pretty low to hit someone within 150 feet) I can't imagine what it would be like with .28s. I have some TSD .26s and it takes a lot of hop as well.

With a hop that is about level, the bbs fly to about 170 feet and just "sputter out." (with my gun)

So basically, I agree. I don't care how good the hop up system is, it's not going to give a magical spin that will allow your bbs to fly level out to 220+ feet with a level trajectory. Especially at roughly 330 fps.......

Edited by Stealthmaster14, 06 October 2009 - 10:46 PM.

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#21 Quizzor

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:07 PM

QUOTE
I don't care how good the hop up system is, it's not going to give a magical spin that will allow your bbs to fly level out to 220+ feet.

It might not, but it may still be an improvement (though exaggerated). Did they really only add a small spring to stabilize the arm on a G-spec hopup unit? Anyone have some clear information on this? I'm really interested.
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#22 Blackpig

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:20 PM

Looks like BS to me...A .2 gram BB isn't going to go 250 feet traveling at 330 FPS. It just isn't, especially consistently. You'd be lucky to get that lil lightweight piece of plastic to hit 200 feet consistently on a flat trajectory.
If this "G-hop" really worked as the video shows, there would be a ton of people doing this.

Edited by Blackpig, 06 October 2009 - 09:21 PM.

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#23 league 4

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:25 PM

QUOTE (Blackpig @ Oct 6 2009, 09:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If this "G-hop" really worked as the video shows, there would be a ton of people doing this.


Not if they didn't want it to get out everywhere.

Can someone link a picture to a TM G-SPEC hopup unit that shows the part of the arm that pushes on the bb/how it works? I can't find any on google.
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#24 OpSic66

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 10:18 PM

QUOTE (league 4 @ Oct 6 2009, 07:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not if they didn't want it to get out everywhere.

Can someone link a picture to a TM G-SPEC hopup unit that shows the part of the arm that pushes on the bb/how it works? I can't find any on google.


I applaud your enthusiasm. However, It's hogwash to think "not if they didn't want it to get out". If it was that great, it would be like using a mosfet.
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#25 Stealthmaster14

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 10:53 PM

QUOTE (league 4 @ Oct 6 2009, 10:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not if they didn't want it to get out everywhere.

Can someone link a picture to a TM G-SPEC hopup unit that shows the part of the arm that pushes on the bb/how it works? I can't find any on google.


Why wouldn't they want to help airsofters make improvements to their guns?

QUOTE
It might not, but it may still be an improvement (though exaggerated).


It's not the improvements I'm questioning, it's the claims/set up of the weapon.

I'm not really sure where the level trajectory thing came into play, but you can clearly see in the vid that the bbs have a lot of hop. (they are still curving up a bit at the target) The bbs look awful fast for how far he's shooting though............

Edited by Stealthmaster14, 06 October 2009 - 10:57 PM.

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#26 OpSic66

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 11:00 PM

QUOTE (Stealthmaster14 @ Oct 6 2009, 08:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's not the improvements I'm questioning, it's the claims/set up of the weapon.


When someone exaggerates a claim. One must suspect the entire project.
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#27 Kavurcen

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 11:21 PM

According to this program, the maximum range for .20g bb's on 1J should be 148.1 feet, and 125.17 on .28gs, and that's assuming you live in a perfect world with no wind or other variables.

By range, we're assuming that the pellet's just getting there, right, not with any sort of groupings or effectiveness?
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#28 D0096F

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 12:34 AM

QUOTE (league 4 @ Oct 6 2009, 10:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not if they didn't want it to get out everywhere.

Can someone link a picture to a TM G-SPEC hopup unit that shows the part of the arm that pushes on the bb/how it works? I can't find any on google.


It's an upside down V shape nub (plastic not rubber), instead of the traditional straight line (-) shape rubber nub.


QUOTE (Kavurcen @ Oct 7 2009, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
According to this program, the maximum range for .20g bb's on 1J should be 148.1 feet, and 125.17 on .28gs, and that's assuming you live in a perfect world with no wind or other variables.

By range, we're assuming that the pellet's just getting there, right, not with any sort of groupings or effectiveness?


The range calculator you used is based off a one meter height firing distance, and does NOT take hop-up into account. It's a straight forward gravity vector, versus a perpendicular x vector, meaning nothing is counteracting the gravity (hence hop-up off), not to mention air resistance etc. So it really doesn't provide any applicable information here.
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#29 Suzaku

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 05:02 AM

QUOTE (OpSic66 @ Oct 6 2009, 09:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When someone exaggerates a claim. One must suspect the entire project.


It might be that they were unable to judge the distance to an object correctly.

People are notoriously inaccurate when it comes to judging the distance between two objects.
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#30 OpSic66

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 01:26 PM

QUOTE (Suzaku @ Oct 7 2009, 03:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It might be that they were unable to judge the distance to an object correctly.

People are notoriously inaccurate when it comes to judging the distance between two objects.


Seriously? If one is going to tout that they made a VAST improvement over how something funtions. (again, such as the Tightbore vs regular, or Mosfet vs none).. You need to have substantial basis of your findings. This includes accurate measurements.

I know for a fact that it's NOT easy to judge distance by eye. But good lawdy, who doesn't have access to a tape measure? Or even a ruler. Measure your foot. Then pace the distance. At least that will give you a measurement that is semi accurate to a couple of feet.

I still stick to what I said. I know with first hand experience, that you are NOT getting a BB out past 175', accurately. Under 400Fps. No matter HOW heavy the BB is or how much hop it has.
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#31 Stealthmaster14

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 02:26 PM

The guy used a range finder thing, how accurate are those?


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#32 MasKila

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 02:57 PM

QUOTE (Stealthmaster14 @ Oct 7 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The guy used a range finder thing, how accurate are those?


The laser type, even the el-cheapo $150 Bushnell one is +/- 1 foot. If he used a visual golf type those can be pretty off (usually used to measure the flag at the hole to estimate the range).

Edited by MasKila, 07 October 2009 - 02:57 PM.

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#33 Stealthmaster14

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 03:14 PM

He aimed the range finder at the target and pressed a button and the range came on the screen. I guess it would be a laser then?
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#34 MasKila

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 05:42 PM

QUOTE (Stealthmaster14 @ Oct 7 2009, 03:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He aimed the range finder at the target and pressed a button and the range came on the screen. I guess it would be a laser then?

Yes. And I had the accuracy wrong, it's +/- 1 yard, not a foot (so +/- 3 feet).
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#35 Stealthmaster14

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 08:15 PM

QUOTE (MasKila @ Oct 7 2009, 05:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes. And I had the accuracy wrong, it's +/- 1 yard, not a foot (so +/- 3 feet).


Is that +/-1 yard total, or +/-1 yard every certain amount of feet? (like for every 50 feet, it's off by 3)

If his measurements are off by 3 feet, that's nothing.....

Edited by Stealthmaster14, 07 October 2009 - 08:17 PM.

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#36 MasKila

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 11:36 AM

You would have to look up the exact model he was using, but the three or four models I've looked at had a blanket statement about the accuracy; no "for every 50 feet" or anything like that.
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#37 yee245

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 01:24 PM

QUOTE (OpSic66 @ Oct 7 2009, 02:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I still stick to what I said. I know with first hand experience, that you are NOT getting a BB out past 175', accurately. Under 400Fps. No matter HOW heavy the BB is or how much hop it has.

I think you meant 275', which is what you had said earlier. At about 410fps (with a .20), I think my gun could probably get to about 175' if I used the right ammo with the right tweaking, given that I could hit (with relatively low accuracy) a letter sized paper with "average" ammo at 200', which was measured. I would imagine if I were to lower the fps that slight bit to be under 400fps (I assume you meant as measured by a .20g BB), using high quality ammo, I could still reach reasonably close to that 175'. Also, add a scope to that, and I think it's reasonable, since I couldn't get my scope zeroed, and so I wasn't using it during that test. Also, from second hand experience with MarineSGT's video, I believe that you CAN get a BB out past 175' accurately under 400fps. Now, 275ft, that's a completely different story...

While I can't read any of the Japanese in the videos, I can't quite tell what the second video is really demonstrating. Basically that with that other gun, at 70m, he can't hit the big target without firing several long bursts, and I think I only counted a single hit on the target at that distance in the many bursts. And, sure, the 60m test gave slightly more hits (and I think some of the hits bay have been from bouncing along the ground and then hitting the board). So, is it saying that with the same hop up chamber, you need to use good BBs in order to be able to hit with any consistency at long range? What would happen to the shot consistency if he were using the G&G .28g BBs in that LMG? Also, maybe I'm not hearing the video right, but in that first video, at the 77m, he only hits about 25% of the shots.

Sure, I shouldn't doubt what I can't necessarily do myself, but it seems with a non-continuous video (I.e. potential editing of "bad takes") or without actually being there to see it, especially side by side with a gun without the modifications, I have no reason to assume this is all that great. It's kind of like those Real Sword SVD videos. Given the space and a day of filming, I'm sure you could get a good take with any fairly well tuned gun.
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#38 OpSic66

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 03:00 PM

QUOTE (yee245 @ Oct 8 2009, 11:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think you meant 275', which is what you had said earlier. At about 410fps (with a .20), I think my gun could probably get to about 175' if I used the right ammo with the right tweaking, given that I could hit (with relatively low accuracy) a letter sized paper with "average" ammo at 200', which was measured. I would imagine if I were to lower the fps that slight bit to be under 400fps (I assume you meant as measured by a .20g BB), using high quality ammo, I could still reach reasonably close to that 175'. Also, add a scope to that, and I think it's reasonable, since I couldn't get my scope zeroed, and so I wasn't using it during that test. Also, from second hand experience with MarineSGT's video, I believe that you CAN get a BB out past 175' accurately under 400fps. Now, 275ft, that's a completely different story...


Define your idea of accurately. To me, I have to be able to hit an 11" target (roughly center mass size of a human). Getting a .20 BB <AT> 328fps to 175' accurately**, is not exactly easy.
Getting a .2 BB out to 175' at 328fps sure not a problem, seen it done. Getting it there accurately and with enough velocity for it to be felt. Now this is a completely different story. This is why I said 175' ain't gonna happen.
Also 410 fps is a markable large increase from 328fps.

I also plainly said that getting a BB out to 275 feet UNDER 400 Fps, is just not going to happen.



**I also claim "accurately" to be 9 out of 10 shots hitting said target. Not a "lucky" single shot.

Edited by OpSic66, 08 October 2009 - 03:01 PM.

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#39 Megabeast

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 03:28 PM

QUOTE (Stealthmaster14 @ Oct 6 2009, 11:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why wouldn't they want to help airsofters make improvements to their guns?


They're Sith Airsofters. They share their powers with no one and will protect their dark secrets to the grave.

The physics don't lie.
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#40 OpSic66

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 03:41 PM

QUOTE (Megabeast @ Oct 8 2009, 01:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The physics don't lie.


Essentially this is what I'm getting at, without busting out the math on it. There is a reason why they are referred to as THE LAWS of physics. They can be bent and challenged, But can not be broken. This has been proven time and time again.
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