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looking to install a hpa rig on my tanaka m700..


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17 replies to this topic

#1 Sneaky sniper

Sneaky sniper
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Posted 16 May 2010 - 12:36 PM

anyone here know where I could purchess one preferably pre installed to a tanaka m700 aics mag?
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#2 TDS

TDS

Posted 16 May 2010 - 01:06 PM

QUOTE (Sneaky sniper @ May 16 2010, 01:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
anyone here know where I could purchess one preferably pre installed to a tanaka m700 aics mag?


If you really, really want someone else to do it, You can probably get spiggy at classicairsoft.net to do it for a fair price.
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#3 Sneaky sniper

Sneaky sniper
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Posted 16 May 2010 - 07:43 PM

QUOTE (TDS @ May 16 2010, 02:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you really, really want someone else to do it, You can probably get spiggy at classicairsoft.net to do it for a fair price.



The problem is that ive heard instaling it yourself requires you to drill things and have a chance of :censored2: up your mag..if only there was a guide to this
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#4 yee245

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 08:26 PM

QUOTE (Sneaky sniper @ May 16 2010, 08:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
if only there was a guide to this

Like this one? http://www.airsoftfo...56-t127562.html
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#5 Sneaky sniper

Sneaky sniper
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 May 2010 - 08:41 PM

QUOTE (yee245 @ May 16 2010, 09:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


nope thats one about constructing one..
I knew someone was going to link that thread lol
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#6 yee245

yee245
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Posted 16 May 2010 - 10:43 PM

Then what are you looking for? It sounded like you were asking for a guide to constructing one. How is that different from installing it?
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#7 Sneaky sniper

Sneaky sniper
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 May 2010 - 11:23 PM

QUOTE (yee245 @ May 16 2010, 11:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Then what are you looking for? It sounded like you were asking for a guide to constructing one. How is that different from installing it?


Ya my bad I shouldof made this clear..
I was going to buy one from palmers and I don't think they send them telling you howbto install it to a airsoft mag..
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#8 Brainplay

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  • Interests:Airsoft, metalsmithing, hunting, fishing.

Posted 17 May 2010 - 09:27 AM

Dis-assemble magazine
Drill hole
Tap hole
De-bur hole
Clean out any shavings
???
Profit

You can't really screw up your mag unless you catastrophically fail. In most cases the worst you will do end up with a tap that's not perfectly straight. That won't affect the performance at all. The last hole I tapped I didn't even bother using tapping oil. I pour bottled water over the hole to keep it cool. The first mags I tapped I was always worried about the shaving getting left behind in the mag. Now I stuff cotton in the back and pull it out at the end. The shaving come with it. Then I flush it out with pressurized water from a garden hose (hold your finger over the end until it shoots fast LOL) or in the kitchen sink with the sprayer.

Absolute worst worst case scenario is that you enlarge the hole too big for a 1/4 fitting by poor drilling. In which case you get a bigger fitting.... Stick to the drill bit sizes from the guide and you'll be fine.

Edited by Brainplay, 17 May 2010 - 09:29 AM.

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#9 vulrath

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 09:42 AM

There really isn't any big secret to drilling the mags. Just find the center of the mags (a nice caliper works well here), offset if you want, drill, and tap. Then fit with your desired fittings (with Teflon tape around the threads of the fitting, of course), and go. Then hook it to the rest of your rig.
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#10 TDS

TDS

Posted 17 May 2010 - 09:52 AM

you drill the mag with the proper sized drill, and then tap the hole with a tap.

if you don't have steady enough hands to do either of those you should not be using an external air rifle.
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#11 Sneaky sniper

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 11:38 AM

In response to all of you..
Where do I drill?
Whats " taping"
whats " deburing"
I feel this is something everyone else thinks is no big deal and im confused as hell lol
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#12 vulrath

vulrath
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Posted 17 May 2010 - 11:58 AM

You drill in the center-bottom of the short mags, or if you have a long mag you do it in the cylinder that has the gas port (disassemble the mag and unscrew the cylinder; it'll make life a whole lot easier). Tapping is the process by which you add threads to the inside of the hole that you just drilled, and deburring is running a small circular file around the edges of the hole (inside and outside edges) to make sure that they're not sharp and that there isn't any flash metal that could break off and lodge itself in a random o-ring.

It is actually really no big deal. You really do need to read Brainplay's guide, though. It has step-by-step instructions on how to do this, from the drilling of the mag all way through building the external rig. It even has pictures that you can follow quite easily while . If you're buying a ready-built one from Palmer's, then congratulations, your work load is cut in half, but the mag drilling part of the guide is still applicable.

I'll make it super-easy. This is the part that applies specifically to you.

QUOTE (Brainplay @ Sep 24 2008, 01:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Drilling and Tapping

Tools Needed

1 Hand drill or drill press
2 blocks of wood *note: only needed if using a hand drill
1 C-clamp *note: only needed if using a hand drill
1 Phillips screwdriver
1 adjustable wrench
1 1/8 - 11/32 tap *note the tip starts at 11/32 and expands out to a full 1/8
1 11/32 drill metal drill bit *note NOT A 1/8 DRILL BIT
1 can of tapping oil or spray on silicone based oil (you can use airsoft gun lube just fine)

*optional:
-1 1/8 gas fixture *Since the metal is soft and will warp if repeated screwed/unscrewed I prefer to have a fixture which gives me more flexibility for future addons. If you screw an airhose directly into a magazine it will work fine but you might have other ideas for later. Fixtures can be found in any hardware store, are made of brass, and cost $1 or less. Its best to ask for SEAMLESS fixtures although most usually are already.

-teflon tape of loktite sealing adhesive



The first item of business is to disassemble the magazine. If you look at the back end where the striker plate is located you will notice 4 screws.





Remove these screws and keep them in a safe place. You don't want to lose them. Next you will remove the backplate. The backplate is NOT glued to the magazine. Instead there is a rubber O-ring inside sealing it from the inside. It will take a bit of pressure to remove the backplate but there aren't any loose pieces that will just fall out (if there are when you pull yours out it might have been damaged). Check the 0-ring for any damage or just wear and tear. Below is a picture of what the backplate and arm look like. The little arm at the end should be sitting in an L position when you replace it. REMEMBER THAT!





Now if you're using a hand drill and I imagine many of you are then you'll want to secure the magazine with the wooden blocks and C-clamp as shown in the picture below. The blocks have to be of the same size of course to ensure an even area. If you look at the picture closely you can see some small dents. These were pilot dents which are where I'll start drilling. Most people drill straight down the middle/center of the magazine but I decided to go a bit more towards the back where the backplate is located.






This part was optional but its still good for those inexperienced in this type of work. From the pilot dents I started my "pilot hole". The pilot hole is basically a smaller hole that will be used as a guide for the larger main drill bit. This isn't necessary but it makes it much much easier to drill later. Since the pilot hole is smaller I can afford to expand it out a bit more if I screw up and drill at an angle in order to fix such a mistake. It also makes it easier to drill with the larger bit. As you can also see I'm cheating since I have access to a cheap drill press.

*The magazine is made of thick aluminum. This is a soft metal so you will want to drill slowly. Putting alot of weight and pressure while drilling leads to the bit becoming caught in the metal. This of course can make you loose control of a hand drill which can damage the drill bit. And while rare occurance a broken drill bit lodged in your magazine is not a good thing. Slow and easy may take longer but it keeps you from having accidents and it lets you keep that the angle is being drilled straight.

**Note: While the can looks similar that is NOT WD-40 being sprayed on the hole. WD-40 should be kept away from your rubber O-rings.



Here is the actual hole being drilled using the 11/32 drill bit. The smaller pilot hole will keep it straight and make the drilling go alot faster since there is less metal to deal with. Once the hole is completely drilled you'll want to deburr the edges. This basically means removing any bits of metal or sharp edges around the entry and exit holes.






Ok you've got your hole drilled. Now comes the truly important part of tapping the threads into the hole. The tapping doesn't necessarily have to be 100% straight to be functional. However, it will eliminate any future problems that may arise due to one side having shallower threads.

First take your tap and insert it into the hole. Line it up as best and you can and then with hand pressure alone try to twist the tap into the hole. This will lock it into place and you can really check the angle of the tap in the hole. Align as necessary. Once its aligned and you have once again used hand pressure to secure it in the hole its time to break out the wrench. Attach it to the top of the tap as seen in the picture below. While holding it steady give it one full rotation. Check your alignment. If its off a bit you can back the tap out of the hole and retry. Try to keep the retries to a minimum. A few won't hurt it really since you'll be really biting deep into it once you screw it in deeper. Its best to have a slightly slanted hole than a dozen tries which have chopped up the hole walls badly.

Start more rotations. Now that you've started to bite into the metal you can remove the small wrench and throw on something larger (I pulled out a medium sized monkey wrench) to help you rotation the tap easier. You'll need to rotate the tap all the way to the end of the thread blades.

*note: when cutting the threads its best to go forward a little bit then back up a hair. Puuuuuussh, back up. Rinse and repeat.



Remove the tap by backing it out the way it came. Check the edges and deburr and necessary.

Congradulations, you have a tapped magazine. The rest is easy.

Edited by vulrath, 17 May 2010 - 12:00 PM.

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#13 yee245

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 12:01 PM

I guess you could drill wherever you wanted on the mag as long as it reached into where the original gas chamber was and also has a thick enough wall. I've seen some drilled on the bottom, some on back, and some on the side, but it depends on what kind of magazine you're using, whether a long or short one.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Tap_and_die : The process of cutting the threads in a hole is called "tapping" the hole.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Burr_(edge) : It is usually an unwanted piece of material and when removed the process is called deburring.
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#14 bonzo_nz

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 04:07 PM

If you really don't want to do the tapping, then go find a local engineering company or school workshop and get them to do it for you. It's not difficult but can be daunting for a first go, especially if it's on an $80 mag. After that, it's simply screwing fittings together.
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#15 Sneaky sniper

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 01:38 PM

Thanks for all the help guys :)
after doing more research ive found that palmers is actualy bad..does anyone know of a bettet hpa rig company? If so link the parts needed to me.
Thanks again:)
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#16 Brainplay

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 03:51 PM

QUOTE (Sneaky sniper @ May 21 2010, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks for all the help guys :)
after doing more research ive found that palmers is actualy bad..does anyone know of a bettet hpa rig company? If so link the parts needed to me.
Thanks again:)


Palmers are just fine. There are of course other options out there from which to choose which are both cheaper and more expensive. Some require a break in period and others do not. Older regs with tappet style traditional spring packs usually do not require a break in period or is greatly reduced.

Here's a short list of regs that I've checked out in the past. This list in not conclusive and you should look at what the paintball world has to offer in new regs. There are plenty of site that post detailed reviews of how they function in a marker while ramping.

List of affordable regulators

If you find one not on the list and evaluate it, please add it to this list. Having a long list of regs and what one can expect will help other gas rifle owners.
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#17 Sneaky sniper

Sneaky sniper
  • Gender:Male

Posted 21 May 2010 - 05:40 PM

QUOTE (Brainplay @ May 21 2010, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Palmers are just fine. There are of course other options out there from which to choose which are both cheaper and more expensive. Some require a break in period and others do not. Older regs with tappet style traditional spring packs usually do not require a break in period or is greatly reduced.

Here's a short list of regs that I've checked out in the past. This list in not conclusive and you should look at what the paintball world has to offer in new regs. There are plenty of site that post detailed reviews of how they function in a marker while ramping.

List of affordable regulators

If you find one not on the list and evaluate it, please add it to this list. Having a long list of regs and what one can expect will help other gas rifle owners.


thanks brain play:) in a recent thread there was alot of trash talking on palmers..or maybe it was just 12gr hpa ..
Oh by the way is it true that 12gr hpa things are worse then the big one
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#18 Brainplay

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 06:58 PM

QUOTE (Sneaky sniper @ May 21 2010, 05:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh by the way is it true that 12gr hpa things are worse then the big one



No
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