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Trying to decide which TBB to get


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30 replies to this topic

#1 Vandal

Vandal

Posted 25 October 2010 - 11:27 AM

I've got a UTG L96 that I have finally decided to get to work on upgrading. While testing this thing the first problem I noticed was it has horrible accuracy right out of the box, so I know I'm going to have to practically gut this thing. I wanted to get the PDI hop up for the L96 but from what I can tell it's sold out everywhere, so I guess I'm going to have to stick with the stock hop up for a while (I don't know of any other brand that makes a hop up that fits). However, due to not having to get a PDI hop up, I'm not restricted to only AEG TBB's anymore (I think). The TBB I'm thinking about getting is the Edgi 6.01 Link here. I just have a couple questions about it before I get this barrel.

1 - Does anyone know if this barrel is compatible with the stock UTG L96 hop up (I believe it is the same stock hop up as the maruzens if I recall correctly)?

2 - I've heard that 6.03's are actually better than 6.01's. Can anyone confirm this and possibly explain why they are better?

#2 yayapfool

yayapfool

Posted 25 October 2010 - 11:43 AM

it seems to be generally accepted that the bore really doesn't matter, but quality deffinately DOES
so buy EdGI, PDI, Laylax, First Factory, Nine Ball, Prometheus
EdGI and PDI seem to be renowned as the best
I'd go in between 6.03 and 6.05
also bucking is more important for accuracy, and use a nub such as the SCS, PCS, or madbul/echo 1 H nub

#3 Vandal

Vandal

Posted 25 October 2010 - 05:44 PM

I hope you don't mind me asking (I'm just getting into airsoft so I'm still learning all of the technical aspects of the game), but why would you go 6.03-6.05 rather than .01?

#4 S n a k e

S n a k e
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Philippines
  • Interests:Scale Modelling, Basketball, MilSim

Posted 25 October 2010 - 05:50 PM

its because of maintenance. 6.01mm ID TB would require more maintenance than a 6.03mm TB. I also found out that if your playing style is more of crawling and stalking, there are cases that foreign objects will get inside the barrel so when you fire your weapon, theres a big chance that the BB will get to the dirt and scratch the insides of your TB which will result in accuracy or jamming issues. same thing happened on my 6.00mm TB before.

IMO, 6.03mm ID is just enough to let air pass the sides of the BB and push/blow the object out before the BB gets to it while still giving you decent accuracy. its also advisable for those shooters who doesnt "hand pick" and wash their ammo.

Edited by S n a k e, 25 October 2010 - 06:09 PM.


"Only those who can See the Invisible can do the Impossible..."



#5 Vandal

Vandal

Posted 25 October 2010 - 06:17 PM

Maintenance aside, is there a noticeable accuracy difference between 6.01 and 6.03? My targets will be 75-100 yds away on average, can I expect to be able to consistently nail targets at that range with a 6.03?

#6 S n a k e

S n a k e
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Philippines
  • Interests:Scale Modelling, Basketball, MilSim

Posted 25 October 2010 - 06:34 PM

QUOTE (Vandal @ Oct 26 2010, 07:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maintenance aside, is there a noticeable accuracy difference between 6.01 and 6.03? My targets will be 75-100 yds away on average, can I expect to be able to consistently nail targets at that range with a 6.03?


whoah! alot will come into play when shooting at targets that far. most airsoft sniper rifles only dream of reaching that range (100yds). 75yds is fairly common and should be easy to achieve even for not-so-upgraded rifles. but for 100yds, I honestly never had my 300ft kill yet for almost 3yrs of playing as an airsoft sniper. at that range, most shots may need to be lobbed so reaching that far consistently is possible but hitting targets consistently at that range will require alot from the shooter and the rifle.

Im not really sure if the 6.01mm TB will have that much of an advantage over a 6.03mm TB. the 6.01 will give you added power though so it will add a bit on your range as well. but accuracy wise, please correct me if im wrong, the 6.03 should give you almost the same result as the 6.01 considering the build material and tolerance are the same.

"Only those who can See the Invisible can do the Impossible..."



#7 Sw33tn3s5

Sw33tn3s5
  • Gender:Male
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Posted 25 October 2010 - 07:04 PM

QUOTE (Vandal @ Oct 25 2010, 11:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've got a UTG L96 that I have finally decided to get to work on upgrading. While testing this thing the first problem I noticed was it has horrible accuracy right out of the box, so I know I'm going to have to practically gut this thing. I wanted to get the PDI hop up for the L96 but from what I can tell it's sold out everywhere, so I guess I'm going to have to stick with the stock hop up for a while (I don't know of any other brand that makes a hop up that fits). However, due to not having to get a PDI hop up, I'm not restricted to only AEG TBB's anymore (I think). The TBB I'm thinking about getting is the Edgi 6.01 Link here. I just have a couple questions about it before I get this barrel.

1 - Does anyone know if this barrel is compatible with the stock UTG L96 hop up (I believe it is the same stock hop up as the maruzens if I recall correctly)?

2 - I've heard that 6.03's are actually better than 6.01's. Can anyone confirm this and possibly explain why they are better?



If you wanted to replace your hop up with a stronger, and probably better quality hop up you could get the HP hop up. You might have to buy it from oversees, but last I checked it's only $25 and is basically a better made copy of the stock one. Maybe you just got a bad stock hop up, because mine works pretty well stock. And tests have shown that a 6.01 barrel barely makes a difference in accuracy at long range, or short range. These could be wrong, but I have seen plenty of stuff/people saying that the bore size doesn't matter. You're going within .02mm, that's not a massive change. Only thing that probably would change is the FPS, but very slightly. We're talking MAYBE 10-20 FPS.

#8 Vandal

Vandal

Posted 25 October 2010 - 07:16 PM

QUOTE (S n a k e @ Oct 25 2010, 04:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
whoah! alot will come into play when shooting at targets that far. most airsoft sniper rifles only dream of reaching that range (100yds). 75yds is fairly common and should be easy to achieve even for not-so-upgraded rifles. but for 100yds, I honestly never had my 300ft kill yet for almost 3yrs of playing as an airsoft sniper. at that range, most shots may need to be lobbed so reaching that far consistently is possible but hitting targets consistently at that range will require alot from the shooter and the rifle.

Im not really sure if the 6.01mm TB will have that much of an advantage over a 6.03mm TB. the 6.01 will give you added power though so it will add a bit on your range as well. But accuracy wise, please correct me if im wrong, the 6.03 should give you almost the same result as the 6.01 considering the build material and tolerance are the same.

Ok maybe not 100 yds (most of the time) :P . I anticipate most of my targets will be 60-75 yds, but I may on the rare occasion get a 100 yd-ish target. My FPS limit at the park I like to go to is 500 for .20 and 450 for .25 so I'm thinking of also getting a 130 spring as well (does that sound about right? From my research it seems like a 150 might be too much). So, considering my range and FPS limit, does a JBU 6.03 barrel for m14 (500mm) with a Laylax 130 Spring, Firefly V-shape soft bucking, and a G&G metal M14 hop up unit sound about right as a starting shopping list of upgrades for this weapon?

#9 dalfin

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 07:42 PM

QUOTE (Vandal @ Oct 25 2010, 07:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ok maybe not 100 yds (most of the time) :P . I anticipate most of my targets will be 60-75 yds, but I may on the rare occasion get a 100 yd-ish target. My FPS limit at the park I like to go to is 500 for .20 and 450 for .25 so I'm thinking of also getting a 130 spring as well (does that sound about right? From my research it seems like a 150 might be too much). So, considering my range and FPS limit, does a JBU 6.03 barrel for m14 (500mm) with a Laylax 130 Spring, Firefly V-shape soft bucking, and a G&G metal M14 hop up unit sound about right as a starting shopping list of upgrades for this weapon?

I just ordered my UTG MK96 yesterday and im in the same situation as you. I've already got some advice from like all the people in this thread lol, but I will probably end up buying a TBB from madbull because of price. 6.03 because it wont effect it to much, and like Snake said, it jams easier at .01. I will NOT upgrade anything else until something needs replacing, most likely the hop up or trigger box. I will also make a spacer for more fps, just like the one in ZER0 W0LF's guide(look it up!!!). He talks about DIY mods that improve performance in stock form if you are on a budget.

But to answer your question, you probably wont need a downgraded spring because it shoots about 460 stock+TBB should be around 475+ with .2 or about 435-445 with .25's.

#10 S n a k e

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 08:04 PM

if you upgrade the spring, you will need to atleast upgrade the sears and spring guide or it will just cause you trouble. but then again the stock internals should be able to stand up to the tension of a 130 spring. like dalfin said, its like a downgrade since the stock spring can already give out 460fps.

Also, since youre getting a UTG Mk96, like other L96 clones, it will have a plastic searbox. you will need to either have that reinforced/machined in steel or aluminum first or buy a new metal trigger system when upgrading on a stronger spring. also follow this rule when upgrading to keep you out of trouble, Accuracy-Durability-Power.

It would also help you if you plan your upgrade path through stages. my stage 1 upgrade, no matter what rifle I have is usually TBB, Hop rubber and DIY mods. when done correctly, it should already give you an output of 480 or even 500fps like others claim. my personal best is at 478fps from 410fps on a Bar10.

Edited by S n a k e, 25 October 2010 - 08:30 PM.


"Only those who can See the Invisible can do the Impossible..."



#11 sniperx2s

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 09:09 PM

QUOTE (Vandal @ Oct 25 2010, 12:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've got a UTG L96 that I have finally decided to get to work on upgrading. While testing this thing the first problem I noticed was it has horrible accuracy right out of the box, so I know I'm going to have to practically gut this thing. I wanted to get the PDI hop up for the L96 but from what I can tell it's sold out everywhere, so I guess I'm going to have to stick with the stock hop up for a while (I don't know of any other brand that makes a hop up that fits). However, due to not having to get a PDI hop up, I'm not restricted to only AEG TBB's anymore (I think). The TBB I'm thinking about getting is the Edgi 6.01 Link here. I just have a couple questions about it before I get this barrel.

1 - Does anyone know if this barrel is compatible with the stock UTG L96 hop up (I believe it is the same stock hop up as the maruzens if I recall correctly)?

2 - I've heard that 6.03's are actually better than 6.01's. Can anyone confirm this and possibly explain why they are better?

madbull makes a decent tightbore barrel that will fit the stock hop up unit and its only 35 dollars

-RS SVD -ARES AW338 -ARES SR-25 -CM M4 -CA P90 -KJW Double Barrel

-G&P PTS MOE

#12 yayapfool

yayapfool

Posted 25 October 2010 - 11:26 PM

yeah don't pay too much attention to barrel bore, no one seems to have ever reported gains in tighter or looser (theoretically I very much so beleive that a wider barrel would be more accurate to a point, air flowing around the BB(?))
and spacer nubs are TINY little peices that make the bucking contact the BB in a more uniform way (if you were wondering)
and yes, as said above accuracy>durability>power is a good thing to remember

QUOTE
So, considering my range and FPS limit, does a JBU 6.03 barrel for m14 (500mm) with a Laylax 130 Spring, Firefly V-shape soft bucking, and a G&G metal M14 hop up unit sound about right as a starting shopping list of upgrades for this weapon?


-JBU seems to me a lower quality barrel, if I were you I would save up and just wait, because quality is really the main issue
-laylax is accepted as one of the best companies
-the firefly V-shape SOFT = YES!! firefly is great, and softer bucking will always give better/more consistant hop up, the only down side is that it rips easier, but in that FPS range, I think you'll be okay, the V-shape is VERY important, that coupled with an SCS spacer nub will work wonders it seems, both items are designed to contact the BB on more stable areas, I would buy an SCS nub for the $6, and I beleive you'll see huge benifits

#13 Vandal

Vandal

Posted 26 October 2010 - 12:16 AM

QUOTE (yayapfool @ Oct 25 2010, 09:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
yeah don't pay too much attention to barrel bore, no one seems to have ever reported gains in tighter or looser (theoretically I very much so beleive that a wider barrel would be more accurate to a point, air flowing around the BB(?))
and spacer nubs are TINY little peices that make the bucking contact the BB in a more uniform way (if you were wondering)
and yes, as said above accuracy>durability>power is a good thing to remember



-JBU seems to me a lower quality barrel, if I were you I would save up and just wait, because quality is really the main issue
-laylax is accepted as one of the best companies
-the firefly V-shape SOFT = YES!! firefly is great, and softer bucking will always give better/more consistant hop up, the only down side is that it rips easier, but in that FPS range, I think you'll be okay, the V-shape is VERY important, that coupled with an SCS spacer nub will work wonders it seems, both items are designed to contact the BB on more stable areas, I would buy an SCS nub for the $6, and I beleive you'll see huge benifits

Thanks for the advice. I think I'm going to get myself a madbull 6.03mm barrel. As for the bucking, do I need to just get an entirely new hop up unit to go with it or can I only get the bucking and get the same effect? Also, for the "nub", what do retailers call them? I've been trying to search "hop up nub" on every retail site I can find to no avail :P

Thanks for your help :)

#14 S n a k e

S n a k e
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Philippines
  • Interests:Scale Modelling, Basketball, MilSim

Posted 26 October 2010 - 12:32 AM

I believe stock UTG Mk96 hp unit can accomodate AEG bucking so you wont have any problem with that.

for the nub, try looking for an SCS (Shredder's concave spacer) or PCS (Polarstar Concave Spacer)

"Only those who can See the Invisible can do the Impossible..."



#15 Vandal

Vandal

Posted 26 October 2010 - 01:11 AM

QUOTE (S n a k e @ Oct 25 2010, 10:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I believe stock UTG Mk96 hp unit can accomodate AEG bucking so you wont have any problem with that.

for the nub, try looking for an SCS (Shredder's concave spacer) or PCS (Polarstar Concave Spacer)

Awesome I'll make sure to pick it up. By the way, do you recommend I pick up the 509mm or the 590mm barrel? I know the outer barrel is 600mm but I just want to make sure I get the right one (I've never bought an aftermarket barrel before :-/)

#16 S n a k e

S n a k e
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Posted 26 October 2010 - 01:28 AM

im not sure how long the stock inner barrel is but I believe the 509mm TB will fit without any mod (?)

"Only those who can See the Invisible can do the Impossible..."



#17 yayapfool

yayapfool

Posted 26 October 2010 - 01:35 AM

you should have the same length inner barrel as the stock one...I'm not sure what the stock length is..

as he said, you don't NEED a whole new hop up unit, you could get one, but only if the hop up unit has the v-shape bucking, because that's the important part
and they actually are really called nubs, hop up spacer nubs, and apperantly the SCS (shredder concave spacer) nub is the best
although I think any of them will improve accuracy greatly

no limit airsoft sells SCS nubs

we're happy to help a-thumbsup.gif

#18 Vandal

Vandal

Posted 26 October 2010 - 01:36 AM

QUOTE (S n a k e @ Oct 25 2010, 11:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
im not sure how long the stock inner barrel is but I believe the 509mm TB will fit without any mod (?)

Will it be a problem if the inner barrel is shorter than the outer barrel?

#19 yayapfool

yayapfool

Posted 26 October 2010 - 01:38 AM

it depends, a lot of an outer barrel is open space, but the end cap can go for a few inches, in which case you have a lot of space to work with
...you should probly just find out how long the inner barrel is....idk who would know

#20 S n a k e

S n a k e
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Philippines
  • Interests:Scale Modelling, Basketball, MilSim

Posted 26 October 2010 - 01:46 AM

QUOTE (Vandal @ Oct 26 2010, 02:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Will it be a problem if the inner barrel is shorter than the outer barrel?


it shouldnt. the end cap will still be able to "catch" and/or support the TB you are getting. a review I saw in google said the stock inner barrel is 499mm. +/-10mm of length is not that big of a difference. the TB should still fit your rifle.

Edited by S n a k e, 26 October 2010 - 01:48 AM.


"Only those who can See the Invisible can do the Impossible..."



#21 Vandal

Vandal

Posted 26 October 2010 - 12:15 PM

QUOTE (yayapfool @ Oct 25 2010, 11:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
it depends, a lot of an outer barrel is open space, but the end cap can go for a few inches, in which case you have a lot of space to work with
...you should probly just find out how long the inner barrel is....idk who would know

Whenever I get home I'll just strip it and measure it. I'll make sure to post the length here for future reference.

#22 yayapfool

yayapfool

Posted 26 October 2010 - 01:02 PM

good plan, I had an annoying experience myself trying to find the length of my inner barrel, haha

#23 AKAKman

AKAKman
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Posted 26 October 2010 - 01:54 PM

HP Enhanced Hop-up

Element H-knob

Systema Bucking

Madbull AEG cut barrel 500mm or 510mm with a Wisha 9 inch silencer

Laylax Zero Trigger or have your trigger box machined out of steel

Laylax Barrel Spacers

WELL Upgrade Kit or Laylax Internal and Polarstar Interanals

Your stock cylinder should be ok

Laylax Cylinder Head too

that list right there is way over $300 so don't be surprised....sniping isn't cheap which is why I'm making my M4 a DMR. The plus to this rifle is that its a springer so its not affected by cold. Other than that alot of the internals are pure crap. The zero trigger is going to be vital for any future upgrades and I have not heard of anybody machining a steel trigger box. You can find all this stuff cheap on Ehobbyasia or ASGI with a coupon code too. pm me if you need any other help.

#24 Vandal

Vandal

Posted 26 October 2010 - 03:10 PM

Ok so here is my latest version of my L96 to-do list (I want to get all products from airsoft GI because they lost 2 of my guns and owe me money which I hope will be turned into store credit):

1 - firefly v-shape soft hop up bucking - $25 - http://www.airsoftgi...roducts_id=4007
2 - madbull 6.03mm precision barrel for M16 (509mm) - http://www.airsoftgi...roducts_id=1231
3 - DIY mods
4 - scs nub - $7 - http://www.airsoftgi...roducts_id=5977

I decided to forgo getting a new spring since the stock spring puts out just enough power for me as it is, and I will wait to upgrade my trigger assembly until I know exactly how much money Airsoft GI is going to give me.

A note about the SCS nub/firefly V shape bucking combo: One of the reviews said that the firefly V shape bucking is incompatible with an SCS or H nub because the nub squeezes the bucking together and creates an inconsistency in the hop up. Does anyone know if this is a regular occurrence or was that just bad installation on the reviewers' part?

#25 Ex Eagle

Ex Eagle

Posted 26 October 2010 - 03:31 PM

don't buy firefly buckings, I have bought two of them and they were misformed. not to mention you HAVE to have them perfectly in there to work. and the SCS is for AEGS, not the L96....

buy the PDI hop up chamber (off airsoftatlanta), systema bucking, and madbull barrel. that should get you started. next pick up a 90 degree trigger mech.

don't limit yourself to retailers. first of all the best place to get airsoft spring sniper parts is Airsoftatlanta, and don't cut corners just to save costs... PDI and Polar Star are the best, Laylax is third.

Edited by Ex Eagle, 26 October 2010 - 03:32 PM.


#26 S n a k e

S n a k e
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  • Location:Philippines
  • Interests:Scale Modelling, Basketball, MilSim

Posted 26 October 2010 - 06:25 PM

QUOTE (AKAKman @ Oct 27 2010, 02:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The zero trigger is going to be vital for any future upgrades and I have not heard of anybody machining a steel trigger box.


I don't post info without proof bro. the T6 aluminum searbox has been done I think 1-2yrs ago here in the Philippines. a guy here asked a machine shop to do it for him. the info is even posted on this forum. it was originally posted on this site on the Sniper's Perch section before the site was hacked. I even came close to ordering the searbox for my DE M57p L96 but ended up selling it instead.

if the searbox can be machined here in the Philippines, Im sure as hell it can easily be done there. you have far more advanced equipment and capabilities than us.

Edited by S n a k e, 26 October 2010 - 06:52 PM.


"Only those who can See the Invisible can do the Impossible..."



#27 yayapfool

yayapfool

Posted 26 October 2010 - 06:51 PM

the SCS can be modded in some way for any gun I think, not sure though, I know it needs a tad bit of modding for my gun, but yes, it was meant for AEG's

that SCS + V-shape bucking thing seems like total bull, it's a V shape CUT into the bucking, the only thing happening is that less bucking (or no bucking) contacts the very top of the BB, which is the whole point
I'm still buying the SCS + v-shape for my M4, I don't beleive that

#28 Sw33tn3s5

Sw33tn3s5
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Posted 27 October 2010 - 06:57 AM

QUOTE (yayapfool @ Oct 26 2010, 06:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
the SCS can be modded in some way for any gun I think, not sure though, I know it needs a tad bit of modding for my gun, but yes, it was meant for AEG's

that SCS + V-shape bucking thing seems like total bull, it's a V shape CUT into the bucking, the only thing happening is that less bucking (or no bucking) contacts the very top of the BB, which is the whole point
I'm still buying the SCS + v-shape for my M4, I don't beleive that


Also, I was told that the M14 barrel, although it is perfect length, will not fit a PDI or HP hop up. I believe the JBU barrel is a custom design un-used to other guns besides the M14.

#29 AKAKman

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 08:50 AM

look...I was just saying that I never heard of anybody machining one Snake....I have used the HP hop-up but not enough to test it out...in fact though I have it for sale along with a Lalax Cylinder Head and a Prommy 6.03 if your intrested. The HP hop-up will work with any AEG barrel and if you do a little bit of filing on the nub holder you can get a perfectly straight SCS in there or a H-knob. I ditched my L96 project cus I need a body and I don't wanna spend $200+ on upgrades when I could use it on my DMR build. The HP hop-up though is one nice peice of brass with 2 rubber o-rings for good compression...the only things you need are 3 hexagonal allen screws and the stock pot metal adjusting ring.

#30 yayapfool

yayapfool

Posted 28 October 2010 - 01:14 AM

QUOTE (Sw33tn3s5 @ Oct 27 2010, 04:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also, I was told that the M14 barrel, although it is perfect length, will not fit a PDI or HP hop up. I believe the JBU barrel is a custom design un-used to other guns besides the M14.


I'm sorry I can't help you with that, I have no idea, haha
but that seems odd, usually all AEG barrels are cut the same

#31 Dew

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 05:21 PM

sorry but I saw you said aeg bucking would fit the stock hop up, it doesent, you have to buy a pdi on hp hopup chamber for it to take aeg barrels or hop up, I have this gun and I know it is true, if you buy the hp hopup chamber you need a spacer, but not for the pdi
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QUOTE (Automobilie @ Jan 19 2011, 08:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There's the TM Scorpion or you could get some makeup and an AK with some raggy clothes. Then you could have the African Child Soldier loadout.




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