Jump to content



to add your 300x250 banner, pay ad zone 5
Airsoft Atlanta is your source for quality airsoft guns and rifle parts
to add your Text Link here, pay ad zone 3

AirsoftAtlanta.com AirsoftNMore.com Airsplat.com AirsoftRC.com
Vote for us to add your 180x30 banner here, pay ad zone 2

If you appreciate this website, please ASF Donation or Check Out the ASF Store. If you can not help us financially,
then at least help us by telling a friend: Share us on your favorite social networking website Bookmark and Share

Important Announcement!

Our Pinzgauer Project is in "Pre Launch" - Click Here to let us know what you think before the project goes live.

Photo

Paintball: Does it really hurt that much more than airsoft?


  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#1 sniperx2s

sniperx2s
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Jericho, NY

Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:53 PM

Not trying to start an argument here. just trying to objectively calculate the amount of pain a person would experience upon getting hit by a projectile. More Joules transmitted towards the body, the more pain. I just want to re-emphasize the fact that I don't want to start a "which hurts more" debate, as these are only numbers, and I hope to receive some feedback on any info I may not have accounted for.

Joules equation:

KE=(1/2)(M)(V)^2

Well, since we know that the joule for a .20 gram projectile at 400 FPS would be 1.5 joules, we need to figure out the joules for a paintball

since paintball guns are not allowed to shoot faster than 300 FPS (90MPS) we will use that number as the V value, and the highest mass allowed is 3.5 grams. Therefore, we will use 0.0035KG as the M value. sooo....

KE= (1/2)(0.0035)(90)^2

KE= approx. 14 Joules


So 14 joules of paintball, vs. 1.5 joules of airsoft. so paintball should hurt more right? not quite. We need to account for the fact that paintball has more of a surface area than airsoft, so the 14 joules would be spread over more distance. im not gonna account for the amount of energy that would be spread out because of the splatter of a PB, simply because idk how. So here is the Surface area formula for a sphere

SA=(4)(Pi)®^2

r= Radius.

Surface area of a paintball (paintballs being 18mm in diameter, 9mm diameter)


SA= (4)(Pi)(9)^2
SA= approx. 1017mm^2

Surface area of paintball (6mm diameter, 3mm radius)

SA=(4)(Pi)(3)^2
SA= approx. 113mm^2

So paintball definitely has more surface area than airsoft, obviously. However, skin is soft. So when a spherical projectile impacts the skin, the skin would deform, wrapping itself halfway around the sphere. So half the sphere would be in contact with the skin at the point of intact. so we take the surface area of the 6mm BB and the 18mm paintball, and divide it in half

SA of Paintball in contact with skin at the point of impact= approx. 508.5mm^2
SA of Airsoft BB in contact with skin at the point of impact= approx. 56mm^2

So now that we have the 2 values we need, we can calculate the amount of Joules is transferred to a human per square mm.

Paintball is 14j/508mm
Joules Per Square MM= 0.2755

Airsoft is 1.5/56
Joules Per Square MM=0.2675

Difference between the 2 is very small. So per square MM, a paintball would not hurt more than airsoft, or vice versa.

But then some might say that the paintball maintains velocity better, since it is heavier. Not quite. We pretty much know that higher weight BB's maintain velocity better, because it is denser. so to calculate the density of a paintball and airsoft BB...

D=M/V

M is Mass
V is Volume

We already know the mass for the projectiles so we need to figure out the volume for the spherical projectiles....

Volume=(4/3)(Pi)®^3

Paintball Volume= (4/3)(Pi)(9)^3
Volume=3053mm^3

Airsoft BB volume= (4/3)(Pi)(3)^3
Volume= 113mm^3

So since Density= M/V
Paintball Density= 14/3053
Density=0.00115

Airsoft BB Density= .2/113
Density= 0.00177

Airsoft is denser than paintball as expected, since it is completely solid. So airsoft should maintain it's velocity better.

To Recap:

Total energy transmitted to target per square mm
Paintball: 0.2755Joules/mm^2
Airsoft BB: 0.2675Joules/mm^2

Density:
Paintball: D= 0.00115
Airsoft: D= 0.00177

According to these numbers, airsoft and paintball should be equal in terms of pain. When people claim that paintball hurts more than airsoft, its probably a placebo affect.

-RS SVD -ARES AW338 -ARES SR-25 -CM M4 -CA P90 -KJW Double Barrel

-G&P PTS MOE

#2 alberty

alberty
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡)
  • Interests:( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡)

  • My Temperament:( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡)

Posted 09 May 2012 - 04:47 AM

Well, I won't comment on the accuracy of your calculations, as I'm too lazy to read the whole post to see if they're logical or not, but there are some other factors that affect people's opinions on the question.

Most people are specifically referring to speedball when they're are comparing paintball to airsoft, which I don't agree with as woodsball is popular too, but that is important because the play involved in speedball affects what you wear.

Because of the amount of crawling, diving, leaning up against bunkers, and size of pods, you have people wearing rear-facing harnesses as the most common rig, so most of the upper body is only lightly layered against hits. In airsoft, the most typical rig will be a vest, plate carrier, or even a chest rig with decent coverage, often with a uniform top underneath.

Speedball is usually very fast-paced and hot, so the players might even lighten up with the clothing, simply wearing a t-shirt instead of a jersey although they may still have the tournament pants and arm pads. Airsoft players might do the same with lightening up, but full uniforms are still usually the typical clothing of choice even in hotter games, as part of airsoft is the MilSim/realism factor.

The high amount of rapid shooting means that a lot of speedball players tend to not wear gloves, or wear fingerless gloves. Yes again, some airsoft players may do the same, but not as commonly.

All those can affect what the players typically feel from hits and what they will say when asked answering the question.

YES, I am using generalization in the comparison; it is for the purpose of comparing the majority of the player base. I do understand that some speedball players would prefer to layer up, and some airsoft players prefer to go lighter and lighter.

(This is my automatic signature content)

 

WTS: Classic Army M4 metal body


#3 Jericho-193

Jericho-193
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SLC,UT
  • Interests:ARN, football, modern warfare 2, scremo, muscle cars, guns

Posted 09 May 2012 - 11:44 AM

Sniper did you take into effect the 8mm BBs in Airsoft? So technically that would hurt more correct? Because of the increased mass and surface area if I'm right

#4 Crysalisx

Crysalisx
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

Posted 10 May 2012 - 06:06 PM

Well, experience for me shows that paintball does hurt far more than airsoft. If it is a placebo, it is a pretty darn good one.
Airsoft GI G4A3.
QUOTE (renegadecow @ Aug 27 2012, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's gotta be the saddest thing I've ever read.
"Yo guys, my physical exhaustion is getting too real."

98.476% of all forum-goers have a made up statistic in their sig. If you're one of the 1.524% that doesn't, put this in your sig.

#5 ServedConsistently

ServedConsistently
  • Location:MN

Posted 11 May 2012 - 01:12 PM

Paintball, however, has no minimum engagement distance. Ever been bunkered on PSP ramp? It sucks.

Also, some paint will fragment on impact, which can leave cuts on hands and knuckles.

The fact that paintballs are heavier means that they will carry energy better. The drag coeficent of an object does not depend on size. Its 0.47 for a sphere, dimension irrelevant.

In short, I can say from experience that woods ball has greater pain potential than woods airsoft. I've never played cqb, however, so I will refrain from drawing a comparison between it and speed ball.
Anything that doesn't kill me...Has made a grave tactical error.

#6 Slider993

Slider993
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:42 PM

Honestly, I've played a lot of both paintball and airsoft, and playing a lot of CQB lately for airsoft, and speedball in paintball, I think airsoft hurts more. I wear essentially the same thing for both paintball and airsoft: a tshirt, pants (paintball pants for paintball, and BDU bottoms for airsoft), belt rig in airsoft (I don't use pods in paintball, I shoot less than 200rds a game), and eyepro with head protection.

Most of my welts when playing airsoft are broken skin, vs paintball welts are usually just bruises. If you get bunker'd in painball, it hurts WAAAYYYY more than most types of airsoft welts.

It might just be me, but I think airsoft hurts a bit more.



#7 alberty

alberty
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡)
  • Interests:( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡)

  • My Temperament:( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡)

Posted 12 May 2012 - 03:10 PM

I've played speedball in the past and I mostly play CQB for airsoft nowadays. I still wear tournament (speedball) gear because I find it more comfortable for the fast-paced action of CQB rather than wearing BDUs and boots. I still think CQB airsoft play hurts. For reference, my local CQB arena has a limit of 330 FPS with 0.25g BBs, allows full-auto, and there is pretty much no minimum engagement distance except for no barrel-to-body contact, so you can get hit from inches away. So with that, I'm getting hit from the same distances that typical speedball game allows.

When I see people at that arena with a t-shirt as the top, man, I see their arms full of welts, skin broken and all. Pretty gruesome-looking!

Honestly in the end, it's hard to compare these through calculations. It really depends on what type of game you're playing in and what gear you wear. Also your individual tolerance, though that is not going to be related to the game.

(This is my automatic signature content)

 

WTS: Classic Army M4 metal body


#8 sniperx2s

sniperx2s
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Jericho, NY

Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:38 PM

QUOTE (Jericho-193 @ May 9 2012, 12:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sniper did you take into effect the 8mm BBs in Airsoft? So technically that would hurt more correct? Because of the increased mass and surface area if I'm right

As I have NO idea how to quote in forums, im just gonna have to reply to each individually. Sorry.

No I didn't. But what I was trying to prove is that for paintball, while it does carry more energy, it is bigger, while airsoft is much smaller, but carries less energy. However, airsoft has less surface area, so the energy is much more concentrated.

Per square mm for paintball and airsoft, they carry approx. the same energy.

-RS SVD -ARES AW338 -ARES SR-25 -CM M4 -CA P90 -KJW Double Barrel

-G&P PTS MOE

#9 sniperx2s

sniperx2s
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Jericho, NY

Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:40 PM

QUOTE (Crysalisx @ May 10 2012, 07:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, experience for me shows that paintball does hurt far more than airsoft. If it is a placebo, it is a pretty darn good one.

You'd be surprised. Placebo effect is very strong.

There have been reports of medical cases where a person's belief that he is suffering an injury can actually cause the body to inflict the injury on itself.

also, I think paintball hurts the same as airsoft, but over a much bigger area, and the brain thinks that is more pain.

Edited by sniperx2s, 31 May 2012 - 08:50 PM.


-RS SVD -ARES AW338 -ARES SR-25 -CM M4 -CA P90 -KJW Double Barrel

-G&P PTS MOE

#10 sniperx2s

sniperx2s
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Jericho, NY

Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:48 PM

QUOTE (ServedConsistently @ May 11 2012, 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Paintball, however, has no minimum engagement distance. Ever been bunkered on PSP ramp? It sucks.

Also, some paint will fragment on impact, which can leave cuts on hands and knuckles.

The fact that paintballs are heavier means that they will carry energy better. The drag coeficent of an object does not depend on size. Its 0.47 for a sphere, dimension irrelevant.

In short, I can say from experience that woods ball has greater pain potential than woods airsoft. I've never played cqb, however, so I will refrain from drawing a comparison between it and speed ball.

At the CQB arena I play at, there isn't any minimum engagement distance either. Although the paintball place I played at had a 15 ft. engagement distance. and to the fragmentation thing... wear a glove. lol


Anyways, I didn't even mention drag coefficient. There were 2 things I was trying to prove.

1. The amount of Joules per square mm is about the same for airsoft and paintball. Even though airsoft is much smaller and lighter, what little energy it has is more concentrated, while paintball, bigger and slower, spreads over its energy over a much larger area. I didn't even mention drag coefficient.

2. I was trying to prove that airsoft speed won't bleed out as fast, because it is denser. I find myself dodging paintballs much easier than dodging airsoft.

However, I do think drag has to do with size. more surface area means more friction, more drag. however, I think the additional mass and inertial would probably counter act the drag.

-RS SVD -ARES AW338 -ARES SR-25 -CM M4 -CA P90 -KJW Double Barrel

-G&P PTS MOE

#11 ServedConsistently

ServedConsistently
  • Location:MN

Posted 01 June 2012 - 07:26 AM

QUOTE (sniperx2s @ May 31 2012, 08:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
At the CQB arena I play at, there isn't any minimum engagement distance either. Although the paintball place I played at had a 15 ft. engagement distance. and to the fragmentation thing... wear a glove. lol


Anyways, I didn't even mention drag coefficient. There were 2 things I was trying to prove.

1. The amount of Joules per square mm is about the same for airsoft and paintball. Even though airsoft is much smaller and lighter, what little energy it has is more concentrated, while paintball, bigger and slower, spreads over its energy over a much larger area. I didn't even mention drag coefficient.

2. I was trying to prove that airsoft speed won't bleed out as fast, because it is denser. I find myself dodging paintballs much easier than dodging airsoft.

However, I do think drag has to do with size. more surface area means more friction, more drag. however, I think the additional mass and inertia would probably counter act the drag.


J/mm has no reason to be a relevant measurement. I think impulse would be a more indicative measurement.

Also, I brought up drag coefficient to show that surface area is not necessarily the only relevant factor in determining how fast something loses energy. Area/density is obviously relevant, but there are much more complicated things involved.
Anything that doesn't kill me...Has made a grave tactical error.

#12 ServedConsistently

ServedConsistently
  • Location:MN

Posted 08 June 2012 - 07:20 PM

On further consideration, this seems to be much like comparing the pain experienced when being impaled on a pike to that caused impact with a speeding truck. Even if it wasn't so circumstantial, it would be almost impossible to draw a useful comparison.
Anything that doesn't kill me...Has made a grave tactical error.

#13 shlunka

shlunka
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Virginia
  • Interests:Philosophy, airsoft, anything mechanical, complicated things, guitar.

Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:59 AM

QUOTE (ServedConsistently @ Jun 8 2012, 08:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
On further consideration, this seems to be much like comparing the pain experienced when being impaled on a pike to that caused impact with a speeding truck. Even if it wasn't so circumstantial, it would be almost impossible to draw a useful comparison.

Yes, or a bee sting compared to getting slugged. The pain from paintball is too different from the pain from airsoft to draw a conclusion about which hurts worse. I've been hit by both, personally, I think airsoft is more painful, though I haven't been hit in paintball nearly as much.
Click HERE to join the ASF Chatroom!

#14 Tortoise

Tortoise
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Looking in your windows
  • Interests:Airsoft and other stuff

  • My Temperament:7,2,6,9

Posted 11 June 2012 - 02:16 PM



#15 nlocflick

nlocflick

Posted 23 September 2012 - 03:25 PM

I have many permanent scars from paintball. I was hit point blank in the metacarpals (top of the palm) and it split my knuckles 1/2" apart from each other.
we play no-rules woodsball, where you set your gun as fast as it can go without chopping (mine shoot 450+ on a good day)
We usually play DooM rules, where you are not out until you cant take the pain anymore

I airsoft'd for years, part of the reason I stepped up to paintball is the pain factor.

Once, I was playing a scenario tournament, and sniping from an old RV on the field. I lost count of my splats, but one opponent managed to get to the front bumper. I couldnt barrel tap him without exposing myself, so I called surrender. I really believe I could have killed him if I were to shoot point blank at the base of his skull (this was the only shot available due to the windows)

#16 philsaudio

philsaudio
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Atlanta GA USA
  • Interests:AEG Electrical Systems, Batteries. CQB guns.

  • My Temperament:666121

Posted 23 September 2012 - 04:13 PM

I have been shot by both many times.

One thing that has not been addressed is the shape of paintball wounds. If it hits bare skin hard enough that it breaks the skin and makes you bleed , there is a circle roughly the diameter of the paintball with a bruise inside and outside of that circle. I think the area of the cut would be larger than the area a BB would cut.

Also I get shot with a lot more bbs than paintballs.

I don't remember the gloved knuckle shots from paintballs hurting for weeks like bb shots do.

All in all I would take a single airsoft bb shot over one paintball shots but I would take the one paintball shot over 10 airsoft shots for the same jouls

Peace

My G36Cs:SRC Gen II, SRC Gen III, KWA Pre2Gx, JG 6681 Gen IV, Classic Army --- JG Stubby Killer, ICS Q4D
Two KWA Advanced Training Pistols and a KWA 1911 MK IV

...........I love it when a plan comes together


#17 Dogs

Dogs

Posted 23 September 2012 - 04:34 PM

Paintballs are much heavier projectiles. Even with the 280~300fps limit, I would think they have a faster final velocity than an airsoft bb at medium-longer ranges. A paintball feels like getting whipped by a towel, that is by far the best way to describe it. An airsoft pellet can feel like a strong flick or sting. Depending on where a person is hit and at what range, this could go either way. I've been shot in the neck twice by a piantball marker at around 10-15ft, my neck bled and I had a scar for a few months. That said I would much rather take a paintball to the neck at that range than have it be an airsoft pellet. I'd rather hava blunt pain on a sensitive part of my body than a stinging pain. At a further range, just hitting my body, it would be less painful for airsoft bbs to be hitting me than paintballs.

#18 jgm

jgm
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:United States
  • Interests:AIRSOFT! Friends, music, sports of all kinds, parties, pretty much anything!

Posted 25 September 2012 - 07:33 AM

BBs are painless past 150ft with sub 400fps guns. The one time a played paintball I got hit once, I didn't notice it until I felt the paint leak though the 2 shirts I was wearing. All the guns were stock Tippman A5s I think.
Proudly building up the airsoft community in Tampa FL and the surrounding areas!

I love Tokyo Marui guns and magazines, I may be willing to take some Marui stuff off your hands, PM me!

#19 SecondWind

SecondWind
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 September 2012 - 02:46 AM

it depends on who you ask. Pain felt due to some carefully controlled inducer will vary widely among individuals. Some of it is in the mind, some of it due to physiology aka density of neurons related to transmitting related signals. Some people are just sensitive and can't suck it up, or maybe they can suck it up, or maybe they are not as sensitive. Pick your favorite combination. Then you have to consider the effects of adrenaline for each person etc. Yes they deaden pain but to WHAT extent for each person, considering the other above information?

Paintballs versus bbs isn't on the scale of comparing say a punch to a gunshot wound and thinking which hurts more.



Personally, paintballs hurt more on my fingers/nails and airsoft hurts more when I get hit on the side but no doubt others would feel differently.
For both most times I don't feel pain until I come home and examine my airsoft acne or paintball plague and start prodding everywhere.

One can see the wide variation in how people tolerate pain just by reading the comments.

#20 Dana

Dana
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:United Arab Emirates

Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:34 AM

From my experience, I can say the paintballs hurt alot when they hit your extremities and exposed parts. I got a shot on the top of my head last Thursday. There is no bruise nor pain now, but damn, it hurt like hell. The same feeling comes when you get shot in your hands or legs (especially the thighs) no matter how far away the shooter is. And the worse part is the ball's exploded casing and the paint itself.
Well, I cannot compare this to airsoft yet. But so far, it's painful depending on where it hits.

#21 ISE9

ISE9

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:45 AM

I've played paintball once, but never again. It felt like I had been beaten with a baton all day, I had bruises everywhere that hurt for days.

I prefer the quick and forgettable stings airsoft inflicts, even if it bleeds sometimes.

#22 chibajoe

chibajoe
  • Gender:Male

Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:33 AM

If you're talking bare skin, I would agree with your analysis that the pain is about the same for a paintball or airsoft hit, except that the area affected by a paintball is much larger than an airsoft BB. However, through a couple of layers of clothing, a paintball definitely hurts more, since the amount of energy absorbed by the clothing is nowhere near the energy carried by the projectile.
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

#23 philsaudio

philsaudio
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Atlanta GA USA
  • Interests:AEG Electrical Systems, Batteries. CQB guns.

  • My Temperament:666121

Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:53 PM

Having been shot by both many many times, I think PB hurts a little more than AS. One thing to observe is the welt from a PB although bigger diameter, if skin gets broken it tends to be broken around the outside circumfrence of the PB circle and not so much inside the circle where the bb cuts a hole the size of the BB.

Once I stupidly fired a PB into the palm of my hand with it over the barrel. The cut was a perfect thin circle the circumfrence of the PB barrel, not so much in the center.

PB collapses when it hits you BB wont. The guts of the PB fly out after the PB breaks. This changes the game.

My G36Cs:SRC Gen II, SRC Gen III, KWA Pre2Gx, JG 6681 Gen IV, Classic Army --- JG Stubby Killer, ICS Q4D
Two KWA Advanced Training Pistols and a KWA 1911 MK IV

...........I love it when a plan comes together


#24 borcky90

borcky90

Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:29 PM

Its like someone kicking you below the belt verse a nice solid flick where it counts. Yeah the kick is going hurt in general over a larger area but theres something about that light tap that just gives you the feeling where you just want to puke and pass out.

I've taken paintballs and bb's to the bare neck both from less than 30 yards away and I may have to go with the bb on this one. The sharp sting is a lot worse than a big bruise.

#25 tyler {332nd} ham

tyler {332nd} ham
  • Location:The People's Republik of Massachusetts
  • Interests:Airsoft (obviously), Paintball, Firearms, history, anything military, snowboarding, skateboarding, video editing, picture editing, music, movies, cars, politics

Posted 24 December 2012 - 09:44 PM

apples to oranges here.

we're comparing a big fat rock being thrown at a moderate speed vs the teeny pebble being shot sometimes twice as fast. Charlie horse vs bee sting.

In terms of overall pain, paintball is going to take the cake. I'll charge into streams of BBs all day long wearing just goggles but I'll never run head on into paintballs with out face protection. That alone should tell you about the pain factor.
If you wish to advertise your Youtube channel, you must have a link back to ASF in your channel description. ~Airborne101

#26 rubisco

rubisco
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida

Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:47 PM

All the math aside, paintball hurts me much more in my experience

#27 brettboat

brettboat
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GA

Posted 12 February 2013 - 09:51 PM

It's a bee sting vs. a punch.

Different kind of pain. But if someones argument is paintball hurts more, therefore it's a more manly sport (people into their 20s still say this), than I must say... Neither one truely hurts, getting tattooed for 8 hours hurts. Getting kicked in the balls hurts. But airsoft and paintball? Not really.

#28 Mr.Snuggles

Mr.Snuggles

Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:16 AM

You need to check your numbers again. Paintballs are 68 cal, that is 17.272mm in diameter. Once you factor that in, the energy from a paintball is 14.63 joules and the surface area is 936.73mm^2.

This means that paintballs exert a pressure of 0.0312J/mm per half ball which is a 18.63% increase over airsoft at .0263J/mm.

Thus based on your theory paintballs hurt approximately 20% more than airsoft bbs


#29 philsaudio

philsaudio
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Atlanta GA USA
  • Interests:AEG Electrical Systems, Batteries. CQB guns.

  • My Temperament:666121

Posted 19 February 2013 - 09:02 AM

Just wondering at what FPS they chrono Paintball guns at now-a-days?

When I began playing paintball 23 years ago at SC Village in Corona CA, and Field of Fire in Newhall CA, the limit was 285 FPS. Indoor Paintball City in Garden Grove chrono'd us at 220FPS which was so low my original Bud Orr Autococker (with the manually adjusted regulator) would have a tough time working well. Some of the renegade fields chrono'd at 300 but I never saw a field over that.

Peace

My G36Cs:SRC Gen II, SRC Gen III, KWA Pre2Gx, JG 6681 Gen IV, Classic Army --- JG Stubby Killer, ICS Q4D
Two KWA Advanced Training Pistols and a KWA 1911 MK IV

...........I love it when a plan comes together


#30 jared__citie

jared__citie

Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:11 PM

QUOTE (philsaudio @ Feb 19 2013, 06:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just wondering at what FPS they chrono Paintball guns at now-a-days?

When I began playing paintball 23 years ago at SC Village in Corona CA, and Field of Fire in Newhall CA, the limit was 285 FPS. Indoor Paintball City in Garden Grove chrono'd us at 220FPS which was so low my original Bud Orr Autococker (with the manually adjusted regulator) would have a tough time working well. Some of the renegade fields chrono'd at 300 but I never saw a field over that.

Peace

anyone I typically play with wont go over 300. however, there are still some that crank the gun up as much as they can. but the only "field" you can play at around here has a 300fps rule.

Edited by jared__citie, 21 February 2013 - 10:12 PM.


#31 cypher235

cypher235
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nashville, TN
  • Interests:Airsofting! I also enjoy working on airsoft guns in my spare time. I usually spend more time working on them than I do actually playing because of my work hours.

Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:47 PM

QUOTE (philsaudio @ Feb 19 2013, 09:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just wondering at what FPS they chrono Paintball guns at now-a-days?

When I began playing paintball 23 years ago at SC Village in Corona CA, and Field of Fire in Newhall CA, the limit was 285 FPS. Indoor Paintball City in Garden Grove chrono'd us at 220FPS which was so low my original Bud Orr Autococker (with the manually adjusted regulator) would have a tough time working well. Some of the renegade fields chrono'd at 300 but I never saw a field over that.

Peace




Didn't really read through all your numbers. Just wanted to say there are a surprising amount of paintballer's who come over to my local field telling me how much worse airsoft hurts then paintball. So you can't really base it all off numbers as people all interpret pain differently.

#32 xNo L1m1tZx

xNo L1m1tZx

Posted 30 March 2013 - 02:03 PM

Neither PB or AS hurt. I'm not saying that getting lit up is enjoyable, but that does not make it painful. However back on topic, on bare skin, AS is definitely more attention getting than paintball, however as soon as clothing and other barriers come into play PB takes the lead.

#33 lorddave551

lorddave551

Posted 01 April 2013 - 03:55 PM

QUOTE (sniperx2s @ May 8 2012, 10:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not trying to start an argument here. just trying to objectively calculate the amount of pain a person would experience upon getting hit by a projectile. More Joules transmitted towards the body, the more pain. I just want to re-emphasize the fact that I don't want to start a "which hurts more" debate, as these are only numbers, and I hope to receive some feedback on any info I may not have accounted for.

Joules equation:

KE=(1/2)(M)(V)^2

Well, since we know that the joule for a .20 gram projectile at 400 FPS would be 1.5 joules, we need to figure out the joules for a paintball

since paintball guns are not allowed to shoot faster than 300 FPS (90MPS) we will use that number as the V value, and the highest mass allowed is 3.5 grams. Therefore, we will use 0.0035KG as the M value. sooo....

KE= (1/2)(0.0035)(90)^2

KE= approx. 14 Joules


So 14 joules of paintball, vs. 1.5 joules of airsoft. so paintball should hurt more right? not quite. We need to account for the fact that paintball has more of a surface area than airsoft, so the 14 joules would be spread over more distance. im not gonna account for the amount of energy that would be spread out because of the splatter of a PB, simply because idk how. So here is the Surface area formula for a sphere

SA=(4)(Pi)^2

r= Radius.

Surface area of a paintball (paintballs being 18mm in diameter, 9mm diameter)


SA= (4)(Pi)(9)^2
SA= approx. 1017mm^2

Surface area of paintball (6mm diameter, 3mm radius)

SA=(4)(Pi)(3)^2
SA= approx. 113mm^2

So paintball definitely has more surface area than airsoft, obviously. However, skin is soft. So when a spherical projectile impacts the skin, the skin would deform, wrapping itself halfway around the sphere. So half the sphere would be in contact with the skin at the point of intact. so we take the surface area of the 6mm BB and the 18mm paintball, and divide it in half

SA of Paintball in contact with skin at the point of impact= approx. 508.5mm^2
SA of Airsoft BB in contact with skin at the point of impact= approx. 56mm^2

So now that we have the 2 values we need, we can calculate the amount of Joules is transferred to a human per square mm.

Paintball is 14j/508mm
Joules Per Square MM= 0.2755

Airsoft is 1.5/56
Joules Per Square MM=0.2675

Difference between the 2 is very small. So per square MM, a paintball would not hurt more than airsoft, or vice versa.

But then some might say that the paintball maintains velocity better, since it is heavier. Not quite. We pretty much know that higher weight BB's maintain velocity better, because it is denser. so to calculate the density of a paintball and airsoft BB...

D=M/V

M is Mass
V is Volume

We already know the mass for the projectiles so we need to figure out the volume for the spherical projectiles....

Volume=(4/3)(Pi)^3

Paintball Volume= (4/3)(Pi)(9)^3
Volume=3053mm^3

Airsoft BB volume= (4/3)(Pi)(3)^3
Volume= 113mm^3

So since Density= M/V
Paintball Density= 14/3053
Density=0.00115

Airsoft BB Density= .2/113
Density= 0.00177

Airsoft is denser than paintball as expected, since it is completely solid. So airsoft should maintain it's velocity better.

To Recap:

Total energy transmitted to target per square mm
Paintball: 0.2755Joules/mm^2
Airsoft BB: 0.2675Joules/mm^2

Density:
Paintball: D= 0.00115
Airsoft: D= 0.00177

According to these numbers, airsoft and paintball should be equal in terms of pain. When people claim that paintball hurts more than airsoft, its probably a placebo affect.


math seems ok but in terms of pain I think your forgot to account for the paintball's tendency to deform on impact prior to bursting. Airsoft hurts more on bare skin because bb's do not noticeably deform on impact. Thus when shot on bare skin with a bb all of the force is localized in a relatively small area. When a paintball hits bare skin the paintball undergoes significant deformation exposing even more surface area of the painball to the skin than I think your equations account for. Without a method of computer modeling and data regarding the elasticity/yield strength of paintball skins I couldn't say for certain how much more this is but I'd guess in the neighborhood of 60% of the paintball gets skin exposure.

Conversely when someone wearing semi loose fitting clothing such as a bdu incurs a hit I would expect a paintball to render more pain than a bb. A bb simply does not have the momentum to displace the cloth and incur a painful hit. As per your calculations the bb only has 1J of energy to break through two barriers. A paintball on the other hand has much more energy behind it again as per your calcs 14J worth. This enough energy to significantly displace the cloth and produce noteable pain to the skin underneath.

Given that few people actually play airsoft either shirtless or with relatively skin tight clothing its easy to understand how airsoft has become the sport associated with less pain. People like to and to a certain extent are even encouraged to equip themselves with nice gear. Airsoft lends itself to milsim and all the gear and protective equipment needed in real life but which is mostly ornamental in airsoft. At the high end of things tac vests, helmets, etc basically stop bbs in their tracks. A bare minimum loadout I.e. a bdu or street clothes jeans, long sleeve shirts, etc are at least moderately effective protection. Given what I've seen observing paintball games more experienced players show the exact opposite trend of airsoft players. They tend to dress down, favoring lighter loadouts for more speed/dexterity/maneuverability. Thus their hits tend to hit more because of the heavier projectile and their lighter armor.

Edited by lorddave551, 01 April 2013 - 04:01 PM.


#34 Ahmad

Ahmad
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Los Angeles
  • Interests:Marine Corps, women, fitness and food.

Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:54 PM

When an airsoft game gets boring it isn't uncommon for regulars at my field to simply put our rifles down and walk to the nearest paintball game and start. Most have sidearms and I hate paintball markers.

It's very different. They hate it when we play, we're much more aggressive and high speed.
United States Marine Corps Assaultman - 0351

Mk18
Glock 17

#35 jared__citie

jared__citie

Posted 17 April 2013 - 10:24 PM

QUOTE (Ahmad @ Apr 17 2013, 06:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When an airsoft game gets boring it isn't uncommon for regulars at my field to simply put our rifles down and walk to the nearest paintball game and start. Most have sidearms and I hate paintball markers.

It's very different. They hate it when we play, we're much more aggressive and high speed.


you should come up to central oregon!! we need more aggressive people here. pain seems to be a big deterrent from being aggressive.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users