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Echo1 pp19 barrel


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24 replies to this topic

#1 Tankado

Tankado

Posted 20 March 2017 - 04:17 PM

I just bought a new echo1 pp19 viktor and I want to put a longer in er barrel in it. I was wondering if anyone could tell me, what kind of barrel can I use? Will an ak47 barrel fit? If not what will? Any help is appreciated thanks.
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#2 Guges Mk3

Guges Mk3
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minnesota

  • My Temperament:Sanguine

Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:26 AM

Depends on how long you want to go.

 

You know you just can't slap in a longer barrel and have performance stay the same right?  You will need different cylinder to support a longer barrel.  Unless your trying to lower FPS...


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I rather use a "nightmare" that shoots like a dream over something that looks like a "dream" but shoots like a nightmare.

Don't fear the gun...fear the one that's wielding it!

#3 Tankado

Tankado

Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:49 AM

I don't want to go much longer I just want to increase the range a bit and im just wondering what kind of barrel will fit the gun
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#4 Hangtight

Hangtight

Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:38 AM

The inner barrel is 229mm long as standard. Changing it for something longer will do absolutely nothing to increase the range, and as above if the cylinder is not changed to suit it could actually reduce the fps.
Range all comes from the hop and ammo. Use a more effective bucking and nub, and high quality ammo, 0.25g as a minimum, preferably 0.28-0.3g if the hop will lift it.
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#5 Tankado

Tankado

Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:40 AM

Can you suggest a good hop unit and bucking?
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#6 Hangtight

Hangtight

Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:54 AM

There's probably not much wrong with the hop you've already got. Maple Leaf 60°bucking and a Firefly soft nub is a good start. ASG 0.25 Blasters work, or ASG 0.28 Devils are what I use. Make sure the barrel is clean and you're getting a good air seal, then go and have some fun.
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#7 Tankado

Tankado

Posted 21 March 2017 - 10:31 AM

Cool thanks. But id still like to put tbb in sooner or later can you suggest a good barrel?
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#8 Guges Mk3

Guges Mk3
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minnesota

  • My Temperament:Sanguine

Posted 21 March 2017 - 11:12 AM

If you cannot quantity the reasoning for a TBB you should not be installing it.

 

Just note...TBB does not mean HQ barrel.   There are many TBB's being sold on the market that is of a lower quality over some stock barrels.


  • 0
I rather use a "nightmare" that shoots like a dream over something that looks like a "dream" but shoots like a nightmare.

Don't fear the gun...fear the one that's wielding it!

#9 Tankado

Tankado

Posted 21 March 2017 - 11:14 AM

Not what I asked... I asked for a suggestion for a good brand not for someone to tell me what to do
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#10 Hangtight

Hangtight

Posted 21 March 2017 - 12:55 PM

Guges does have a point. If your gun already has a barrel fitted that gives good accuracy then there is no real point in changing it. Don't fall into the marketing trap that a TBB must be 'better'. There are a lot of barrels out there marketed as an 'upgrade' that are actually poorer performing than the perfectly acceptable one already fitted.
While a TBB may give a slight boost in fps, it is the surface finish on the bore that is the key to performance,the bore size itself having little impact on accuracy.
But if you really want to change the barrel then at the budget end consider the ZCI 6.02 steel barrels, or at a higher price point with better quality then the Prometheus EG 6.03. At the top end there's the EdGi barrels. All need to be partnered with high quality ammo and kept clean to perform well.
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#11 Tankado

Tankado

Posted 21 March 2017 - 12:58 PM

Thank you very much that's all I was asking for. Id also like to upgrade the gear box in the near future to go with a longer barrel. Any suggestions for that?
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#12 Hangtight

Hangtight

Posted 21 March 2017 - 01:01 PM

First you need to decide what sort of performance you want from the gun.
If you are changing the length of the barrel then all you actually need is the correctly ported cylinder to go with it.
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#13 Tankado

Tankado

Posted 21 March 2017 - 01:03 PM

All I really want is it to shoot a little farther than it does now. Can you suggest some good cylinders and anything else I would need?
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#14 Guges Mk3

Guges Mk3
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minnesota

  • My Temperament:Sanguine

Posted 21 March 2017 - 01:04 PM

Cool thanks. But id still like to put tbb in sooner or later can you suggest a good barrel?

 

 

Not what I asked... I asked for a suggestion for a good brand not for someone to tell me what to do

 

Isn't telling you which barrel to buy essentially telling you what to do...I.e.buy this barrel?

 

On that note, barrels that I have found with truly nice finish and would be an upgrade are:

 

SystemA

Modify

Prometheus

Azimuth

Magic Box

 

Thank you very much that's all I was asking for. Id also like to upgrade the gear box in the near future to go with a longer barrel. Any suggestions for that?

 

Cylinder Swap based on your new barrel.   Other than that it "depends" on what "you" want to do.


  • 0
I rather use a "nightmare" that shoots like a dream over something that looks like a "dream" but shoots like a nightmare.

Don't fear the gun...fear the one that's wielding it!

#15 Tankado

Tankado

Posted 21 March 2017 - 01:07 PM

Can you point me in a direction to start looking? Im looking for a longer range over rps but if I can boost both thats cool with me
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#16 Hangtight

Hangtight

Posted 21 March 2017 - 01:22 PM

First, do you know what fps and rate of fire the gun is currently running? If you change the barrel length how are you going to cover a longer barrel? Is there a longer outer barrel available? Or do you want to use a gutted suppressor to hide it? As there is no performance advantage to be had from a longer barrel do you really need to? What are the limits at the fields you skirmish at? What batteries can you fit? How deep are your pockets? What is your tech experience level?
Go and watch as many videos as you can find about teching and upgrading. Read as many guides as you can find. At the end of the day it's your gun to do with as you wish, so no one can tell you what to do. If you have specific questions then people can help. But right now my advice would be to replace the bucking and nub, use decent heavy ammo and go out and play a few games so you can discover what's good, what's in need of improvement. What's my ideal set up may be nothing like the performance you decide you're seeking.
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#17 Tankado

Tankado

Posted 21 March 2017 - 01:39 PM

Thanks for the response. And in the end I would cover it with a mock suppresor and for what I want from it, the finnish reuslt would hopefully be a mid to even some what long range smg. Im pretty good with tech stuff ive repaired a few things... but this will be my first gun to mod and id like to have some fun with it as my "pockets" are as deep as I want them lol. All I was asking for was a list maybe of some general parts I can browse at/look for and or what parts I should stay away from. All im asking for is a little help.
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#18 Hangtight

Hangtight

Posted 21 March 2017 - 02:16 PM

OK, fair enough. If this is your only gun, then keep it simple. But again, don't bother changing the barrel length. My CQB gun with a 170mm barrel has the same range as my carbine with a 300mm barrel and is almost as accurate when using the same weight ammo. I build for 20rps and snappy trigger response because that's what feels good to me. It's also reliable. Don't think that just putting new 'upgrade' parts in your gun will make it better. The secret is getting everything to work together really well. Parts may not 'mesh' properly and you have to be able to spot the conflicts and be able to sort them out. Change one thing at a time, so if it doesn't work you know it was the one thing you just changed.
For your first mod, don't change anything inside the gearbox. Get a decent 7.4v lipo battery, 25C and the largest you can comfortably fit. Change the internal wiring for 16awg (proper low resistance, flexible stuff), Deans connectors and a basic Mosfet. I like the firestormsystems.com ones as they come pre fitted with decent wires and they're small enough you can fit them anywhere, even within the gearbox shell if you're handy with a Dremel. After that you can start to think about a more efficient motor, and shimming the gearbox correctly. These get done together, no ifs or buts. Just chucking a new motor on is a good way to trash your gears. While you're in the gearbox you adjust the angle of engagement and replace the stock grease with something better. The rest of the stock parts should hold up fine, although replacing the bearings with solid bushes will give peace of mind.
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#19 Guges Mk3

Guges Mk3
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minnesota

  • My Temperament:Sanguine

Posted 21 March 2017 - 02:42 PM

The battery in itself can change ROF.

 

Not all batteries are created equal.

 

You should learn the discharge rate formula for a battery.  DA (Discharge in Amps) = C x mah.

 

And you should stick with packs that give you a minimum of 15A, ideal should be 20A minimum.  HT's rule of 25C is good, but that limits your battery selection.

 

I know many good batteries that have a lower C, but mah is higher and that gives you a good discharge rate.

Also, as mentioned before barrel length does not equal range.

400fps at the muzzle is 400fps at the muzzle, regardless of barrel length.  The only advantage of a longer barrel is that it puts you those few millimeters closer to your target.


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I rather use a "nightmare" that shoots like a dream over something that looks like a "dream" but shoots like a nightmare.

Don't fear the gun...fear the one that's wielding it!

#20 Hangtight

Hangtight

Posted 21 March 2017 - 03:41 PM

I get fed up explaining discharge capacity... ;)
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#21 Tankado

Tankado

Posted 21 March 2017 - 04:56 PM

Awesome! Thanks for all your tips! Any chance you guys could throw me some names and or parts to look at?
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#22 Guges Mk3

Guges Mk3
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minnesota

  • My Temperament:Sanguine

Posted 21 March 2017 - 05:00 PM

First off...easy range increase.  Want ~8 more yards in range.  Switch to .25g bbs.

 

Then get a hop-up packing with new nub and that can add another ~10 yards.

 

Both mods do not require opening the mechbox.

 

Maple Leaf works, I sell sets to club members in my State Organization.

 

Modify sets are decent, as well as Prometheus.

 

Do NOT get Madbull...dated and not as effective as other brands.


Edited by Guges Mk3, 21 March 2017 - 05:01 PM.

  • 0
I rather use a "nightmare" that shoots like a dream over something that looks like a "dream" but shoots like a nightmare.

Don't fear the gun...fear the one that's wielding it!

#23 Tankado

Tankado

Posted 21 March 2017 - 05:02 PM

Ok.how can I increase fps and keep accuracy? Maybe up the rof?
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#24 Hangtight

Hangtight

Posted 21 March 2017 - 05:22 PM

No point increasing fps unless you're way below local field limits. It should already be running around 400 with 0.2g BBs which is about as much energy as you can apply to 0.3g ammo before physics and aerodynamics make things unstable.
Without going into the gearbox, you can usually gain a bit of ROF by making the power system as efficient as possible. That's the wire, Mosfet and Deans connectors along with a decent battery that is able to supply enough current. Try 7.4v and if you're getting around 14rps you can probably go up to 11.1v and still have it hold together. Please note that I said 'probably'...
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#25 Guges Mk3

Guges Mk3
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minnesota

  • My Temperament:Sanguine

Posted 22 March 2017 - 07:17 AM

Motor swaps can increase ROF too.  A good modern motor can add 10 rps.

 

Battery swap...again...do not take things at face value...components are not created equal like many things in real life.

 

If you are running a NIMH pack.  Get the better cell packs and you can add 1V of operating power under load and that can equate to higher RPS.  Example...here is a dated graph, but it shows two cell types and one has a higher operating voltage over the other:

278878d1193490230-elite-1500mah-cell-eli

 

And honestly...don't think a 20fps bump is going to give you 20' of additional range.  Physics/Ballistics (due to the Magnus Effect) don't work like that...(video game ballistics).

 

What I honestly recommend is going out and play, play a lot.  Learn your style and "then" do modifications.  I shoot way to many kids with "modded" guns who are terrible players.   They think its a video game and just camp and think their "firepower" will save them.

 

Most NIMH packs are inferior and delivery 9V under load and tapers down to 7.2V, which you will notice in a decrease in ROF.

 

With LIPO (2S) you will have a rather linear power discharge (8.4V-7.8V) and it then drops precipitously at the last 7%...that is when you stop and change packs.


  • 0
I rather use a "nightmare" that shoots like a dream over something that looks like a "dream" but shoots like a nightmare.

Don't fear the gun...fear the one that's wielding it!




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