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URGENT! Please help guys! Have an operation in two weeks!


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19 replies to this topic

#1 ShillelaghGuy

ShillelaghGuy

Posted 17 July 2017 - 12:54 PM

Hello, I hope this is the right place to post! I recently just dropped a lot of money on upgrades for my ARX160 Elite as I'm very familiar with its gearbox and internals. Rewiring it to 16awg, upgrading and installing the new spring, high torque motor, vortex ball bearing spring guide, SHS gears, piston, piston head, as well as cylinder/cylinder head, and new air nozzle was all going extremely well until I tested it for the first time. I had done an amazing shim job and corrected AOE and yet the instant I pulled the trigger, the piston shot back but didn't not cycle forward and locked up, so I went through the anti reversal latch hole in my gearbox and reset it and the piston shot forward again. I have no clue as to why my Piston shot back but will not go forward. I was thinking it didn't have enough clearance,the sector gear would catch the last tooth because it couldn't go back all the way, but I'm not sure. Is the spring guide too wide not allowing the piston to go over it? I can guarantee the piston rails are filed properly and are not tight. The piston also is not locking up anywhere else except for the VERY back of the gearbox by the spring guide. It's very important I get this working because I've dropped hundreds on this gun over the years and I need quick help because I have an operation in two weeks! I've looked everywhere but nothing helps, please help me! Thank you! (also this is my first post, very new)
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#2 Hangtight

Hangtight

Posted 17 July 2017 - 01:39 PM

There are a bunch of things it could be. The only way you're going to track it down is by taking it completely apart and putting it together one item at a time and checking for free movement, then starting to combine components until you find what's causing the issue.
When I'm putting a set of components together for the first time it goes something like this...

Check the piston slides on the gearbox rails. Whenever you do any of these checks put at least three gearbox screws in and snug them down. Don't rely on holding the shell halves together by hand.
Then fit the piston head without the seal and assemble the piston and cylinder into the gearbox. Check the piston moves freely. A common issue at this point is the sides of the piston rack catching on the cylinder wall.

Now do this with the sector gear installed and check that using the sector gear you can wind the piston right to the point where the sector gear releases the piston. Another common issue is the piston hitting the rear of the gearbox before the sector has wound it all the way back.

Repeat with the spring guide installed. When the piston reaches its rearmost position measure the distance between the back of the piston and the face of the spring guide. Now put the piston, spring and guide together and compress them to ensure the piston reaches the right distance from the spring guide without the spring getting coil bound.

At the moment it's my guess that the piston is hitting the back of the gearbox.

Also unscrew the parts of the spring guide and reassemble using Loctite on the threads. These do come undone otherwise, at which point the spring drops into the gap created and can jam the piston back.

Edited by Hangtight, 17 July 2017 - 01:40 PM.

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#3 ShillelaghGuy

ShillelaghGuy

Posted 17 July 2017 - 01:56 PM

Thanks for replying fast Hangtight! I'll get right on it and tell you how it goes so hang tight lol. I do have a question though, what are my chances of getting my gun running if I file down the last tooth of my piston that my sector gear can't push back all the way causing it to jam, if that's even the problem?
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#4 Hangtight

Hangtight

Posted 17 July 2017 - 03:00 PM

If the sector can't push the piston all the way back, look for a solution to the actual problem. If the piston is hitting the back of the gearbox then simply sand /file a small quantity off the back of the piston until it can release.
I've had a piston jam in such a way that it looked exactly as if it was hitting the back of the gearbox. After removing a couple of mm from the rear of the piston it was still doing it. It turned out the cylinder wasn't seating correctly which was holding the shell halves slightly apart and creating a small lip that the piston was catching on.
Don't keep hacking away at something if you're not making any difference. Sometimes it can be something really obscure, a tiny issue that's easily missed and will take a while to work out.
This is why I have the assembly procedure. Hopefully you're only changing one thing at a time so an issue is easier to figure out.
Basically, don't chop teeth off! You shouldn't have to.

Edited by Hangtight, 17 July 2017 - 03:02 PM.

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#5 Guges Mk3

Guges Mk3
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minnesota

  • My Temperament:Sanguine

Posted 17 July 2017 - 05:45 PM

This is why always have a back up and don't work on guns when you need it.

 

Remove the bearing on the spring guide.  You don't need it and it's a waste of space that allows you to compress the spring for the mechbox.

 

You don't have a bearing on the piston head too do you?


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I rather use a "nightmare" that shoots like a dream over something that looks like a "dream" but shoots like a nightmare.

Don't fear the gun...fear the one that's wielding it!

#6 ShillelaghGuy

ShillelaghGuy

Posted 17 July 2017 - 07:57 PM

Awesome advice Hangtight thank you, great to see you have had this problem before and are helping me solve it like you solved yours. Like I said I'll get right on it asap, I'm at work right now currently. Also, I do have backups if I need them, but I just wanted to showcase my soon to be work of art, and yes I do have bearings on the piston head as well, really though? Remove them both?

Edited by ShillelaghGuy, 17 July 2017 - 07:59 PM.

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#7 Hangtight

Hangtight

Posted 18 July 2017 - 12:19 AM

I leave the bearings in, unless I need to take a little bit of compression out of the spring to reduce the fps or lower the piston weight for high ROF builds.
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#8 Guges Mk3

Guges Mk3
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minnesota

  • My Temperament:Sanguine

Posted 18 July 2017 - 07:11 AM

Bearing are not need on both ends and depending on spring that you have, it will skew the FPS higher than you want it,.

 

FPS rating for springs are based on No bearing systems.  If your gun can even cycle a compressed spring (and yours seems to not be able to do that) it will shoot higher than the rated spring you bought,.

 

Sadly...the current Airsoft industry lost sight on the reason for needing bearings and thus most users does not know how to use them either (like your side view mirrors).

 

Remove spring guide bearing and the spring will stop binding up.


Edited by Guges Mk3, 18 July 2017 - 07:13 AM.

  • 0
I rather use a "nightmare" that shoots like a dream over something that looks like a "dream" but shoots like a nightmare.

Don't fear the gun...fear the one that's wielding it!

#9 ShillelaghGuy

ShillelaghGuy

Posted 20 July 2017 - 11:54 PM

Okay I've finally had time to work on it and here's the problem, I've gotten as far as having in all three gears, piston, cylinder, and cylinder head. As I move the sector gear back to make contact with and push the piston backwards, it's a very smooth glide backward until at one point it abruptly stops and gets extremely tough to push the piston back with my fingers putting force on the sector gear. At first I thought it was the piston grinding with the gearbox and being too tight and needing to be filed down but I checked and it's not. When the gearbox is properly screwed down and the sector teeth and the piston teeth aren't engaged with eachother, I can shake the gearbox and the piston will move freely up and down like it should, not too loose and not too tight. It's only when I put in the three gears and the piston and sector make contact for atleast the first two teeth and then bam it gets very tough to move the piston back, not impossible, just very tough. So what I did was loosened the screws on my gearbox and made it less tight (which is not hat I want to do) and just like that the piston moves a lot more free, so my question now is, do I remove shims from my gears to give the piston and gears the room it needs to do as it does when the gearbox is not tightened down, or do I loosen my gear box? Obviously I would not like to loosen the gearbox and risk the screws stripping, the halves falling apart, and my gun becoming ######. Hangtight, you're up

Edited by ShillelaghGuy, 21 July 2017 - 12:00 AM.

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#10 ShillelaghGuy

ShillelaghGuy

Posted 21 July 2017 - 12:49 AM

Edit/Follow Up: I stand corrected, the piston is in fact a little bit too tight for the gearbox due to the fact that the ARX160 uses a custom V.3 gearbox. Although it's a little too tight, I don't think it's the piston being to thick, I just think that the sector gear is pushing into the piston too much, pushing the piston upward into the gearbox making it grind and seem stuck and hard to move. How can I fix this? I do believe this to be the problem and my shimming job remained untouched except I moved one shim from the "bottom" of the sector gear, to the "top." Everything else is the same, it's just the piston is a little too tight and it's pressing into the sector gear, due to the sector gear pushing it up, blocking it from cycling forward and locking back. The gearbox is just too tight I would guess

Edited by ShillelaghGuy, 21 July 2017 - 01:18 AM.

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#11 Guges Mk3

Guges Mk3
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minnesota

  • My Temperament:Sanguine

Posted 21 July 2017 - 06:51 AM

Sand down the piston rails...


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I rather use a "nightmare" that shoots like a dream over something that looks like a "dream" but shoots like a nightmare.

Don't fear the gun...fear the one that's wielding it!

#12 Hangtight

Hangtight

Posted 21 July 2017 - 08:24 AM

Is it an SHS half metal rack piston by any chance?
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#13 ShillelaghGuy

ShillelaghGuy

Posted 21 July 2017 - 12:01 PM

It's an Angel custom Aegis
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#14 Guges Mk3

Guges Mk3
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minnesota

  • My Temperament:Sanguine

Posted 21 July 2017 - 12:55 PM

Oh that is part of the issue.

 

Evike House Brand...QC varies from batch to batch depending on maker.  It is a low cost China product...under a private label.


  • 0
I rather use a "nightmare" that shoots like a dream over something that looks like a "dream" but shoots like a nightmare.

Don't fear the gun...fear the one that's wielding it!

#15 ShillelaghGuy

ShillelaghGuy

Posted 21 July 2017 - 12:59 PM

It seems great and I've heard good reviews that's why I got it, but I've filed it down to the point where I can move it more freely with my finger pushing the sector gear. Everything seems alright now, except I have no idea how this occurred but now my motor even when out of the gearbox won't spin?! It's a brand new motor and it was just working fine but now it just barely moves and feels like it's trying too, it just clicks. No smell nothing, what's going on/ edit again lol: okay I just used another battery and it worked fine, I'm guessing I'm getting somewhere between 23-29rps low charge, 32-34 Rps fully charged and balanced 11.1 with my new build. I'm extremely happy with my results and all the sweat and hard work as well as hard earned cash poured into it. I thank you guys so much for the help! I could tell that the battery was hardly charged especially when I plugged it in the smart charger for a few minutes and then put it back in and it worked fine but again it only shot about 22rps on a low charge so it was sort of disappointing. Anyways, the battery I want to use is on the charger right now, I can't wait to see this beasts full potential! Huge load off my shoulders, thank you guys so much. Hopefully my hard work pays off

Edited by ShillelaghGuy, 22 July 2017 - 06:37 AM.

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#16 Guges Mk3

Guges Mk3
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minnesota

  • My Temperament:Sanguine

Posted 22 July 2017 - 07:25 AM

Wow...22RPS on a 11.1V...yeah..not good.  Gives you something to fine tune in the future.


  • 0
I rather use a "nightmare" that shoots like a dream over something that looks like a "dream" but shoots like a nightmare.

Don't fear the gun...fear the one that's wielding it!

#17 ShillelaghGuy

ShillelaghGuy

Posted 22 July 2017 - 07:33 AM

Yeah it was an estimate since I don't personally own a chronograph, did you see my update? My lipo was extremely under charged. It's amazing now, extremely fast about a little more than half the speed of a good DSG build now to actually put a mag in and see if there's any feeding issues, regardless if there is or not, should I install a sector chip?
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#18 Guges Mk3

Guges Mk3
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minnesota

  • My Temperament:Sanguine

Posted 22 July 2017 - 10:08 AM

No.  Try before you modify.  Have you not noticed your own struggles?

 

This isn't a video game where all parts are compatible and are instant upgrades with a specific performance level increase.

 

Nothing is completely snap in compatible any more much less an upgrade.


  • 0
I rather use a "nightmare" that shoots like a dream over something that looks like a "dream" but shoots like a nightmare.

Don't fear the gun...fear the one that's wielding it!

#19 ShillelaghGuy

ShillelaghGuy

Posted 22 July 2017 - 12:24 PM

Well yeah, I just minimized as much variables as possible to make it anything but guess work when I was getting "upgrades". Things just don't fall into place (obviously like you've stated) and it just so happened mine didn't and wasn't all YouTube DIY easy peazy. Yeah it was challenging, but I still did it and I made it work, and I'd say the gun runs flawlessly. Not to brag but it's every bit of the word. The trigger response is absolute, the firerate is astounding. The shim job is perfect, the wiring and solder job is very nice, so yeah I'd say for a "struggle" I did pretty dang well lol, and I'm proud of my first build
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#20 Guges Mk3

Guges Mk3
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minnesota

  • My Temperament:Sanguine

Posted 22 July 2017 - 06:39 PM

And with that...don't just snap in a Sector chip because you feel like it.  Snap it in if you only need to.


  • 0
I rather use a "nightmare" that shoots like a dream over something that looks like a "dream" but shoots like a nightmare.

Don't fear the gun...fear the one that's wielding it!




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