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does active breaking cause sticky trigger on semi-auto?


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11 replies to this topic

#1 Phil2

Phil2
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Chairsofter

Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:14 AM

does it? 

 

I run a particular gun at 7.4V with an AB mosfet that I built myself (I build my guns to last, so over-built the electricals)

and I noticed that when rapid firing in semi, especially after the battery's been used a bit, my semi-auto sticks. alot. 

I have to switch to full-auto, fire a shot(s), then switch back.

 

so I got to thinking about this issue...how do I make it NOT stick? is it even possible? 

due to space constraints I am forced to use the 7.4V. there simply isn't room for a 3S lipo.

 

There's already a 12:1 gearset and a GP 160 motor in this gun. 

So I am coming to a conclusion that theres really nothing else that could be done, EXCEPT maybe perhaps AB plays a role in it?

 

 


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ARRRRRRGH

#2 Lefse

Lefse
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norway

Posted 17 August 2017 - 07:03 AM

What exactly do you mean by the trigger "sticking"? Does it stick as in the trigger trolley doesn't return, or does it jam on the cut-off lever?


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#3 Phil2

Phil2
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Chairsofter

Posted 17 August 2017 - 10:26 PM

I meant the trolley doesn't return.

 

when it's "sticky," I can pull the trigger and I hear audible "click click" from the trigger attempting to engage the trolley, but the trolley's already in the "up" position, and no shots.

I have to switch to full-auto, pull the trigger (which then shoots), then re-engage to semi. THEN it shoots in semi....until it gets "sticky" again from firing too fast.

(PS: it's not the return spring, I already tried replacing it.) 

 

my theory is that when the battery is half-charge, the gun can't keep up with the rapid semi-auto fire due to delayed response time.

As in, the cycle time for the firing sequence is getting longer and I am releasing the trigger finger prematurely before the gun's had enough time to go through the cycle, and the AB feature is kicking in, forcefully cutting off the motor mid-cycle. 

and if the above happens RIGHT AFTER the sector gear engages the cutoff lever but RIGHT BEFORE the piston's released, I've got a half-cocked gun with its electricals cut off. 

 

does this make sense? 

 

and if it does....does that mean getting rid of the AB feature will get rid of the "sticky" semi-auto trigger problem? 


Edited by Phil2, 17 August 2017 - 10:33 PM.

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ARRRRRRGH

#4 Hangtight

Hangtight

Posted 18 August 2017 - 12:26 AM

You're over thinking this. It sounds like you simply have an issue with the trigger shuttle and /or the cutoff lever.
The whole point of having a Mosfet, of whatever type is to relieve the trigger of current switching. So whatever is going on at the motor should have zero effect on the trigger contacts.
It's possible you altered something slightly when you installed the Mosfet, maybe when soldering the trigger wires to the contacts,or the selector plate isn't operating quite correctly, but coincidental to the installation of the actual Mosfet.
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#5 Lefse

Lefse
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norway

Posted 18 August 2017 - 06:12 AM

Sharpening the trigger trolley and/or cut-off lever might help. They're supposed to be shaped so the cut-off lever will slide off the trigger trolley if it stops in the wrong place in the cycle. Cut-off jams can happen more easily if you shoot rapidly in semi auto with a slow cycling gearbox.


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#6 Phil2

Phil2
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Chairsofter

Posted 20 August 2017 - 12:50 PM

you see, I don't think its the trolley not moving smoothly. 

because the "sticking" only happens on low battery, probably ~3-ish hours into gaming, when the battery is about around 7.7 V.

which is bad, because that's not even the nominal voltage...

 

that said, I wanna test this theory by changing to an integrated electronic trigger unit, that replaces the traditional trigger assembly. 

this gun is a version 3 (AK platform), and the only one I was able to find that ships to the US is Jefftron. 

 

Do you guys have experience with Jefftron, and would you recommend it?


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ARRRRRRGH

#7 Lefse

Lefse
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norway

Posted 21 August 2017 - 05:30 AM

At 7.7 volts your li-po is actually well below half charged. Li-po's have a different voltage curve than ni-mh batteries, ni-mh batteries have a more gradual voltage drop, while li-po's have a flatter voltage curve with a steeper drop at the end of the capacity. My gens Ace 11.1V 2500mAh li-po's will take around 2500mAh of charge from 11 volts, meaning that the capacity is calculated from that voltage by the manufacturer. Certain cheaper brands calculate the capacity from a significantly lower voltage to get nicer specs.


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#8 Hangtight

Hangtight

Posted 21 August 2017 - 02:24 PM

Don't touch Jefftron. For V3 gearboxes go BTC Chimera. Damn expensive way to solve a 'sticky' trigger though.
Having had to take fractions off the side of trigger shuttles, mix and match shuttles and cut off levers, tweak contacts and half a dozen other fixes to sort out trigger problems, I'd still say your problem is with the trigger components.

Edited by Hangtight, 21 August 2017 - 02:42 PM.

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#9 Phil2

Phil2
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Chairsofter

Posted 22 August 2017 - 12:25 AM

im willing to buy it, problem is I can't find one in stock at the moment. 

I guess I'll wait it out until it becomes available, and use a different gun meanwhile. 

 

Thanks for feedback guys . 


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ARRRRRRGH

#10 Phil2

Phil2
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Chairsofter

Posted 22 August 2017 - 12:36 AM

sorry about double reply, can't edit the above for some reason.

 

I just went to black talon website and noticed that there are separate FET unit (external) and a switchboard (internal). 

I don't really want any of the fancy programmable features, I just want to get rid of the sticky trigger by replacing the traditional unit. 

Is it possible to use BTC internal trigger board ONLY and hook it up to a home-made mosfet?


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ARRRRRRGH

#11 Lefse

Lefse
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norway

Posted 22 August 2017 - 06:34 AM

No need for a computerized mosfet and trigger board, you just need a new cut-off lever and trigger. If the cut-off lever and trigger trolley are shaped correctly it should be nearly impossible to get a cut-off jam, because it's supposed to just slip over the trigger trolley. it might also be as simple as shortening the spring on the trigger trolley 2-3 coils to make it cut the power more quickly.


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#12 Hangtight

Hangtight

Posted 22 August 2017 - 07:15 AM

sorry about double reply, can't edit the above for some reason.
 
I just went to black talon website and noticed that there are separate FET unit (external) and a switchboard (internal). 
I don't really want any of the fancy programmable features, I just want to get rid of the sticky trigger by replacing the traditional unit. 
Is it possible to use BTC internal trigger board ONLY and hook it up to a home-made mosfet?


Nope. The trigger board also replaces the shuttle and cutoff lever, using a micro switch to pick up the position of the cutoff lever cam. The control unit then interprets these simple inputs to give you semi auto.

Honestly, you just need to get your existing shuttle and cutoff lever working properly. You're looking for $20 solutions to a 20c problem.
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