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On Sniping


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71 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_Sir Biscuit_*

Guest_Sir Biscuit_*

Posted 14 November 2006 - 10:20 AM

*Edit*: Moved to the library. If you have any comments, or anything to add, please contact me and I will add it there.

Note: I claim none of this as pure fact, these are but observations and ideas I have come across in my military and Airsoft studies. I would love you to correct me on any of this, or all of it, I want to learn. I have a problem coming across as arrogant, please do not take this paper to be that way, it is simply my study and ideas concerning the sniper. And one last thing, when I say things like always, never, every time, etc. I do not actually mean ALWAYS, NEVER, etc. I realize there are always exceptions. Now, without further ado:


On Sniping
By Sir Biscuit


The crisp morning air surrounds your unit as you move through the forest. You know the enemy is ahead, recon reports that you should engage them in 2-3 minutes. All your teammates are prepped and ready, you’re moving out, when suddenly:
*Sniper!*
You and your team hit the dirt. You know where the sniper is, after all, he’s shooting at you, but you’re outranged. One of your teammates breaks cover and is killed immediately. The others say under cover and start a slow advance.
Then the rest of the enemy team arrives. Supported by they deadly accurate sniper, they eliminate you easily.

What you see above never happens. Ever. This is an unrealistic fantasy, a newbie snipers dream. However, this is what most people consider sniping to be, a blend of deadly and quiet with a dash of heroism. This is NOT what snipers are. To fully understand the snipers battlefield role, as well as the psychology of the sniper, we must start by analyzing:


The Sniper’s Mystique

This is what everyone assumes the sniper is. The deadly assassin, killing with impunity from a distance, granted immunity from enemy fire due to his stealth and range. This is essentially false.

Many newbie’s, and indeed, senior players, are trapped by this definition. They are, of course, not to blame. The snipers appearance has been built up in countless movies, (Enemy at the Gates, Saving Private Ryan, Black Hawk Down) games, (Counter-Strike, Halo, Silent Scope) and fantastic military reports. (How many times have you heard of the lone sniper that took out the high commander and got out without being seen? Need two hands?)

Of course, these present not only an unrealistic view of the sniper, but an altogether contrary one. In all of these, the sniper is presented as the most elite warrior on the field, that it takes some special skill or training to use a sniper rifle, something that sets one apart from the average Joe. It is exclusive, elite; it speaks to the idea of a hero in us all.

But if this really is the case then I must ask one question:
Why doesn’t every soldier use a sniper rifle?

The first thing that will undoubtedly come to your mind is that not everyone can be trained as a sniper, that snipers are elite, special individuals, that only certain exclusive individuals can be trained and effective in its use. Wrong. Everyone could be trained as a sniper. We certainly have the resources to train them, heck, every nation could. We’d save a ton on ammunition, too.

To answer this question, we move onto:


The Sniper’s Battlefield Role
Let us begin by examining a few of the more common battlefield roles. We shall start with the rifleman.

Riflemen are your assault force. They are the most flexible soldiers, able to lay down fire over distance as well as engage at shorter ranges. They are tasked with attacking and holding objectives, protecting essential personnel and vehicles from enemies, and of course eliminating the enemy. They make up the bulk of ANY modern day military.

Secondly, we have support gunners. They carry heavier, higher ROF guns that are meant to suppress enemy riflemen as their own advance. They also keep enemies pinned down with a wall of bullets, allowing for greater control of the battlefield.

Third, we have grenadiers. They are effective against enemy armor, and more importantly, fortifications. They can strike enemies behind cover by lobbing explosives, and keep groups of enemies back, afraid of being wiped out by a single, explosive strike.

These, of course, are only a few of the many roles found on the battlefield. With these in mind, we return to our subject: the sniper.

What, I have asked, is the snipers role? Can they match the flexibility and maneuverability of the rifleman? No, they must maintain stealth, and they lack the ability to take out large numbers of enemies as well as engage enemies effectively at close range. Can they suppress like the support gunners? No, they lack the ROF; an enemy will soon overwhelm them. Can they kill like the grenadiers, then? No, they are limited to what they can take out by their sights. Where then, does the snipers strength lie?

The answer? Reconnaissance. Snipers are meant first and foremost as scouts, reporting enemy positions and movement back to their team. Snipers are NOT combat units, they are SUPPORT units. What it all boils down too is:

“An excellent sniper is just as effective with a pair of binoculars and no guns as he is with his rifle.”

That’s right; the most effective snipers never need fire a shot. Consider, for a moment, the snipers reconnaissance role. How does firing the rifle further his goal? I maintain that it does not. As soon as the rifle crack is heard, (and it is easy at the close ranges of Airsoft is played at,) the sniper has revealed his position, and any chance for gaining intelligence is lost. The rifle should be used as a last resort, if the sniper is to be discovered, perhaps he can take out a pursuer and stay hidden a while longer. Every sniper should feel as if they have failed if they fire a shot while collecting reconnaissance. There is NEVER a reason to give yourself away while gathering intelligence.

This is not to say that the rifle is useless, but its primary use is NOT for use on enemy infantry units and commanders, but on opposing recon and patrol units. It is meant for use on outlying, lone enemies. This is because the elimination of these enemies will not reveal the position of the sniper, and, by eliminating the enemy team of one additional member, will create a favorable imbalance in the coming main battle.

There are those who claim that one of the essential roles of the sniper is that of assassination, which, once again, is false. Only inexperienced teams will place reliance on a single commander. Most teams will have responsibility spread out, so the annihilation of any single command unit will not have any major effect on the team as a whole. Unless the sniper can continue to pick off officer after officer, (a feat I claim as impossible,) the sniper will have achieved nothing but his own demise, a fate sealed by his revealing of his position.

Remember, your rifle is a last resort! Once again:
“An excellent sniper is just as effective with a pair of binoculars and no guns as he is with his rifle.”

How Do I Take Out a Sniper?
The age old question, and what we began our article with. You know the snipers out there; you may even know his position, but what next? We will assume the sniper is shooting at you. You probably will not gather his exact location from a single shot, but you will have a good idea of their general area. (Remember, shot angle is just as important as sound!) After this, the sniper is as good as dead. The most effective tactic to use on lone snipers with bolt-action weapons is undoubtedly a charge. Coving fire will throw the sniper’s aim off, and it is difficult to hit an aggressive target. Once you get close, you will be able to kill the sniper with a well-aimed shot from your rifle, relatively safe from the retaliation of the sniper rifle, which was not designed with this CC use in mind.

Even if the sniper draws his pistol, (unlikely,) you still maintain the advantage. It takes time for him to switch weapons, and you can cover a good amount of ground during this intermission. Then, once again, you take him out with your rifle.

This is assuming, of course, that you are facing an inexperienced sniper. (Sadly, this seems to be the majority.) An experienced sniper will run when spotted, avoiding any major engagement with the enemy whatsoever. Experienced snipers understand that the longer they stay in contact with the enemy, the more stealth ability they sacrifice. Think on it for a moment. Not only does the enemy become more accustomed to the idea of a sniper on the field, but they identify with the snipers camouflage and shape more. Camouflage will not be nearly as effective once the enemy knows what he’s looking for, it’ll become your own little battlefield game of Where’s Waldo, the little man blending in with the red striped shirt.

Minimal contact with the enemy is key. Stealth is the snipers primary aspect, and any sacrifice of it in the present or future decreases all of the snipers abilities.

The Sniper’s Weapon
The sniper rifle is generally an inferior weapon.

I say this because it is designed with a very narrow specialty in mind, and it usually fails to deliver outside the bounds of its design. When used under its ideal conditions, there is no weapon better then the sniper for the job, but it is hardly a versatile gun.

Consider for a moment some implements for an everyday job: opening a can of food. There are two instruments at your disposal, a knife, and a can opener. Which is better for opening the can?

I’m sure you said, “The can opener, duh!” And you would be correct. However, once we start considering possibilities outside of opening a can, it becomes apparent that the knife has wider variety of uses.

So it is with the sniper rifle. Ideal for taking out lone, unsuspecting targets at a distance, the rifle quickly becomes inefficient when compared to its counterparts once we add more complex variables. The sniper rifle simply cannot match the rifleman’s machine guns at medium range, and it is laughable to try to fight any CQB trooper worth his salt with one.

Of course, if the sniper is being assaulted, he has already broken the most important rule: do not be seen. My recommendation for if you find yourself spotted is simple: run. Come back and try again, but for your team’s sake do NOT try to fight them. You will lose in a straight up fight to any competent squad, regardless of your individual skill level.

I am sure many of you are saying now, “But I have a GBB to kill anyone that gets close!” Don’t make me laugh. You will be hard pressed to fend of well-trained enemies using assault weapons using your tiny pistol. This is not to nay-say pistols potential, the simple fact of the matter is you are weaker with your pistol then your enemies with their machine-guns. You have spent most of your time training with your rifle; not your GBB, your enemies spend most of their time training with their AEG’s. Who do you think is going to win? You with your secondary? No way.

This is not to say the sniper rifle is useless, in fact in its niche it performs quite nicely. The rifle can be used to effectively take out cut off enemies at longer range, bombard and suppress lightly-held enemy positions for short periods of time, and provide support fire from the back lines. In a sense, when the rifle is used for an attack purpose along side your team, it functions as artillery. It can be a helpful resource to an attacking force, especially since the enemy will most likely have fallen prey to “the sniper mystique”.

But, I must stress again:
“An excellent sniper is just as effective with a pair of binoculars and no guns as he is with his rifle.”

Snipers are first and foremost recon, the rifle is to be used as a last resort, or as a tool to give the sniper more room to move about. It is NOT intended for the same use as other guns.


The Sniper as a Weapon
Of course, recon is boring, and you’ve spent a lot of money on your rifle, like hell you’re just going to spend the battle talking to your teammates. You’re going to go kill some enemies, recon or no.

And this is alright. The sniper can be a valuable weapon, adding his mystique and range to a force. However, this must be done correctly if it is to have any positive effect on the team.

First, and most importantly, snipers are not lone wolves! The sniper MUST work with his team if he hopes to accomplish anything, otherwise he might as well be some bumbling rifleman running around on his own, eventually taken out by an organized enemy. You are not invulnerable, either through stealth or your superior range. We have already covered how you reveal your position when attacking, and how camouflage can be recognized and thwarted during contact with the enemy. Your range gives you some advantage, but it takes very little time for an effective opponent to cover the 150 feet or so that you outrange them by.

So, what to do? The answer lies not in using yourself, but your team to provide you with an effective way of attacking.

At the bare minimum, your team is a distraction. It’s hard to kill, or even notice, a far away sniper when they are engaged with the immediate problem of your riflemen. Their fire can mask your shots and conceal your position, giving you the ability to fire without having to worry about any sort of counterattack. Of course, there is always a downside, and the enemy will likely to be difficult, if not impossible, to hit. They will have taken cover, and will be on the lookout for any direct threats to the flank or rear. Not to mention the difficulties of sneaking around an engagement to attack from such a direction, which requires a wide route to maintain stealth. Most likely, you will be firing from the backline, pinning and confusing the enemy.

Of course, you could always hide, and wait for the enemy, but this requires definite knowledge of where the enemy will be and when, which is usually only feasible in objective games. Besides, who’s going to be on reconnaissance while you’re hiding?

You may also function in the capacity of assassin. In this role, you are not trying to take out team leaders, but rather slow the enemy team and spread fear through your presence. Any team member will do, just make sure they don’t see you after the shot. Fire, and vanish. After that, they will be checking much more for you, moving much slower, and scanning the surrounding area. Be careful! Firing too much will result in a loss of the mystique, and each shot fired gives them more and more information about where you are, your camouflage, and your limits.

Of course, these basic tactics are only effective against inexperienced opponents. It would take pages and pages to detail how to take out experienced snipers, and I don’t have the knowledge to write such a comprehensive guide anyway.

The Sniper’s Mystique
The snipers greatest asset is the fear and importance place upon him by his role, and the psychological effect he has on the enemy. The most overrated class by far, (and we have seen they are very useful, just not as strong as we are lead to believe,) people tend to see them as all-powerful, all-seeing beings, able to kill with a whim, and never have to worry about retaliation. Use this. You will likely score very few kills in any given game, but the reconnaissance and support you provide is invaluable.

Thank you for reading, and remember:

“An excellent sniper is just as effective with a pair of binoculars and no guns as he is with his rifle.”

Edited by Sir Biscuit, 24 November 2007 - 02:14 PM.

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#2 Guest_Mad_tomato_*

Guest_Mad_tomato_*

Posted 14 November 2006 - 07:37 PM

Not quite seeing you bit about sniper effectiveness w/ w/o a gun and only binoculars. Anyways, haven't snipers been used to assasinate important people? Important purposes? In the battlefield, I wasnt exactly aware nor do I believe that a sniper is only a scout.
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#3 Gauss

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 07:55 PM

I'm pretty sure he's talking about long game. Like Long range and time. A sniper who knows how to shoot is good, but a sniper who hows how to scout and tell his teamates where the enemy is is great if not a necessity.

I vote pin.
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#4 44_Magnum

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 08:09 PM

"Secondly, we have support gunners. They carry heavier, higher ROF guns that are meant to suppress enemy riflemen as their own advance. They also keep enemies pinned down with a wall of bullets, allowing for greater control of the battlefield."

Just being nitpicky, Support gunners carry guns with a slightly lower ROF but usually have a higher caliber. In real life. In airsoft, they have a lower ROF, but people usually upgrade.

Never really though about it this way. PIN.

Edited by Whitegrass, 14 November 2006 - 08:12 PM.

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#5 Vanguard

Vanguard

Posted 14 November 2006 - 09:18 PM

PIN THIS!

But I only oppose one statement...

There are 2 exceptions I can think of when you say "snipers should not be assasins."

If you're playing some sort of VIP game, 1 shot can mean game over.

If you're not playing a VIP type game, then yes I agree, don't waste time on "officers." But instead, attack the largest threats such as machine/heavy gunners or other snipers who are visible (if the enemy team should have any), then relocate yourself as necessary. Eliminating these threats will invaluably help your team's survival.

In games, I have done this before, and the 9:10 times I am successful in doing this, my team generally wins the fight because they can attack more aggressively without fear of machine gun fire. I typically do something like this right before I am about to change my posistion, so even if I was spotted, I'm not there any more.
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#6 Guest_Sir Biscuit_*

Guest_Sir Biscuit_*

Posted 14 November 2006 - 09:50 PM

QUOTE (Mad_tomato @ Nov 14 2006, 05:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not quite seeing you bit about sniper effectiveness w/ w/o a gun and only binoculars. Anyways, haven't snipers been used to assasinate important people? Important purposes? In the battlefield, I wasnt exactly aware nor do I believe that a sniper is only a scout.


The simple fact of the matter is, in airsoft, there is generally no supreme commander on any team. Responsibility is spread so as to minimize the impact of a command units death. Airsoft sniping is very different from real world sniping, where assassination of key targets falls as a regular duty. You do not have to be ONLY a scout, but it should be your primary concern.

QUOTE (Gauss @ Nov 14 2006, 05:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm pretty sure he's talking about long game. Like Long range and time. A sniper who knows how to shoot is good, but a sniper who hows how to scout and tell his teamates where the enemy is is great if not a necessity.

I vote pin.


Yes, this is primarily intended for longer games, in shorter games the sniper will take on a much more martial aspect, functioning as a weapon for the team. In fact, in smaller games, it would be detrimental to not have the sniper as a weapon, as your enemy will outnumber you, combat-unit wise.

QUOTE (Whitegrass @ Nov 14 2006, 06:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"Secondly, we have support gunners. They carry heavier, higher ROF guns that are meant to suppress enemy riflemen as their own advance. They also keep enemies pinned down with a wall of bullets, allowing for greater control of the battlefield."

Just being nitpicky, Support gunners carry guns with a slightly lower ROF but usually have a higher caliber. In real life. In airsoft, they have a lower ROF, but people usually upgrade.

Never really though about it this way. PIN.


Correct you are, I'm not really too up on support gunners weapons and equipment, just their role. Thank you for the correction.

QUOTE (Vanguard @ Nov 14 2006, 07:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
PIN THIS!

But I only oppose one statement...

There are 2 exceptions I can think of when you say "snipers should not be assasins."

If you're playing some sort of VIP game, 1 shot can mean game over.

If you're not playing a VIP type game, then yes I agree, don't waste time on "officers." But instead, attack the largest threats such as machine/heavy gunners or other snipers who are visible (if the enemy team should have any), then relocate yourself as necessary. Eliminating these threats will invaluably help your team's survival.

In games, I have done this before, and the 9:10 times I am successful in doing this, my team generally wins the fight because they can attack more aggressively without fear of machine gun fire. I typically do something like this right before I am about to change my posistion, so even if I was spotted, I'm not there any more.


You bring up a valuable and interesting point. I'll take your examples one at a time.

1.) VIP: True, you can end the game with one shot. However, the VIP is typically VERY well defended against this eventuality, and they tend to travel with a unit of very alert riflemen. Plus, defend the VIP is typically not played at large-scale events, but on game days with people you know, so they will be looking for you specifically. Sure, the VIP can be ended with one shot, but that goes for anyone. Wouldn't you be more effective relaying bodyguard info, defensive weak points, and enemy movement back to your team? Sure, take the shot if you've got it, but that's a hard one to score.

2.) Yes, when you do fire at the enemy, taking out support personnel should be primary. This is why again and again, I see, "Kill the enemy sniper first! not his team!" Removing the support fire and recon from a team creates a devastating imbalance in your favor. And yes, you are doing exactly the right thing by changing your position every shot. Keep them guessing, keep the mystique, and the field is yours.

Edited by Sir Biscuit, 14 November 2006 - 09:55 PM.

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#7 sniper{teamWoOdStocK}

sniper{teamWoOdStocK}

Posted 21 November 2006 - 09:52 PM

All very true... this is how I have gotten most of my kills ... the mystique of the sniper biggrin.gif
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#8 Graham Abram

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 12:00 AM

A very well written article. I sadly did not have time to read it all. I noticed when you defining the sniper's role, you only stated the most common of their many roles. You said that a sniper would be just as effective with a pair of binoculars and no weapons as he/she would be with his/her rifle. This is true in some cases; however, snipers have many countless roles. It all depends on what a commander needs to do.

Reconnaissance, yes, the most important role of a sniper. However, a sniper is also sent out to take out specific targets, no not the leader of the enemy forces, but targets that are not worth creating an entire assault over. Snipers have "sniper rifles" for a reason. This reason is to be able to take out any target necessary. My point is a sniper does not have a set amount of abilities and tasks, but a sniper can do anything needed, weather it be taking out a vehicle (ei. with a Barrett M82), or just taking out a certain human target, or more than one. There is no defined task of a sniper.

If there are enemy snipers on a nearby hill, a sniper would be sent out to eliminate this threat in most cases. Plato (a Greek philosopher) said that no one thing can be true for all circumstances. And this, in most circumstances including the roles of a sniper is true.

I am sorry if my words seem to be a bit harsh in criticism, I am trying to simply add onto your article.

If someone new to airsoft says, "Hey, I want to be a sniper because I am really good killing those grunts in Halo!" I do not think that a sniper's position would be best for them. However, there is always the possibility of someone who would make an excellent sniper.

I myself have tried airsoft while playing with only a pistol; I have played as a sniper, and as a rifleman. Each of which were equally enjoyable. I got about 4 kills in 3 hours as a sniper, yet I was never seen, heard, or located. As a rifleman I killed plenty of enemies. When your a sniper, you will never get more kills than a trained rifleman, but you will take out those who least expect it. Those careless rifleman who think they can run fast enough get popped in the gut with a nice little BB from the sniper's muzzle. I am one of the few people who can say they have been stepped on while taking the place of a sniper. Most greedy and ignorant "snipers" would think they had to spin around and pop the person who stepped on them in the head. This is NOT true, the best thing you can do is let him/her go, you don't know where his/her buddies are, and you may miss, worst of all you will probably be noticed by another enemy thus revealing your position.

Anyway Biscuit, I hope you understand my point amidst all these words.

P.S. Yes, I am going to call you Biscuit for the rest of your life.




Cheers, Graham.





EDIT: post script.

Edited by Graham Abram, 23 November 2006 - 12:01 AM.

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#9 4thReich Second-in-Command

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 12:10 AM

excellent excellent review of the sniper's role, I had always thought the sniper was the long range rifleman, but now my entire perspective has been changed. kudos to you!
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#10 Guest_BuRi3d_*

Guest_BuRi3d_*

Posted 23 November 2006 - 02:18 PM

I like the metaphor of the knife and can opener, a little crude but it really makes the point. This article is good but there are to many contraversial points made or to many opinions rather, that make it NOT Pin Worthy.
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#11 Gunsmith Zero

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 07:29 PM

Sir Biscuit this is an excellent writing of yours. It is nice to see another person who has some understanding of snipers and what they do. However, I have to disagree with you on some points, and Graham Abram beat me to them. I also have to agree with you on the fact that the most important function of a sniper is reconnaissance and observation, and that every shot that a sniper does take must down something or someone that is important enough to the enemy team so that their elimination will be detrimental to their success, and aid the sniper's team's succeeding.

Thank you very much for an informational writing that should help many people new to sniping, for it may lessen the amount of "wanna-be" snipers that I meet.

By the way BuRi3d, what is controversial about Sir Biscuit's writing? It is a marvelous adaptation of actual military sniper doctrine to airsoft.

I say that this thread should be pinned.
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#12 RocketPropeldCorn

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 08:26 PM

QUOTE (Graham Abram @ Nov 23 2006, 12:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Reconnaissance, yes, the most important role of a sniper. However, a sniper is also sent out to take out specific targets, no not the leader of the enemy forces, but targets that are not worth creating an entire assault over. Snipers have "sniper rifles" for a reason. This reason is to be able to take out any target necessary. My point is a sniper does not have a set amount of abilities and tasks, but a sniper can do anything needed, weather it be taking out a vehicle (ei. with a Barrett M82), or just taking out a certain human target, or more than one. There is no defined task of a sniper.


Just today I was out with my friends playing airsoft. I was up on a large hill under a camo cover watching them come down the path (recon). all but one broke off the path into the woods on the left then the one went right. I relayed the info and redeployed into the woods on the right to counter the one man who went "lone wolf." I think this is a perfect example of a sniper actually using his rifle because losing an assualt rifle on the left would deprive the rest of the team of a good RoF. a sniper is a great chioce because if you are not spotted while recocating, the lone wolf will not be expecting the bb out of nowhere. when you really think about it one shot from a sniper rifle could take out one man in the woods where you might have to sacrafice RoF where it is needed on the right (because they already know you are there) and the rifleman would probably use semiauto (if he was smart and a good shot). I think this is a perfect example of a sniper's effectivness on an enemy that is deprived of reenforcment.
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#13 Guest_Sir Biscuit_*

Guest_Sir Biscuit_*

Posted 25 November 2006 - 10:59 PM

I will answer your post point by point, Graham.

QUOTE (Graham Abram @ Nov 22 2006, 10:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A very well written article. I sadly did not have time to read it all. I noticed when you defining the sniper's role, you only stated the most common of their many roles. You said that a sniper would be just as effective with a pair of binoculars and no weapons as he/she would be with his/her rifle. This is true in some cases; however, snipers have many countless roles. It all depends on what a commander needs to do.


I did talk about how the sniper may be used as a weapon, (what the commander needs him to do,) and I still believe that the sniper should be more recon oriented than offensive. "Countless roles" is not quite correct, as the sniper is limited greatly by his weapon load out and distance from fire support and teammates. More on this after:

QUOTE (Graham Abram @ Nov 22 2006, 10:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Reconnaissance, yes, the most important role of a sniper. However, a sniper is also sent out to take out specific targets, no not the leader of the enemy forces, but targets that are not worth creating an entire assault over. Snipers have "sniper rifles" for a reason. This reason is to be able to take out any target necessary. My point is a sniper does not have a set amount of abilities and tasks, but a sniper can do anything needed, weather it be taking out a vehicle (ei. with a Barrett M82), or just taking out a certain human target, or more than one. There is no defined task of a sniper.


Ah, you are speaking of taking out lightly held enemy fortifications? Yes, the sniper can be very useful for destroying small enemy positions or wiping out enemy "lone wolves" who appear on the flank or rear. In fact, taking out the "lone wolves" is one of the more useful thing a sniper can do. If the sniper is not functioning in a reconnaissance role for whatever reason, they should be covering the rear and flanks, looking for small enemy attack forces. The sniper is NOT likely to be able to take out these forces, but he can pin them and help his team deal with them.

I will argue that there IS a defined task for a sniper. Snipers are absolutely useless unless they work with their team, and the two roles the sniper is built to fulfill are recon, and to a lesser extent, support. They may switch between them, but the sniper will never match the flexibility of the rifleman, and they will never emerge as full-blown assault soldiers. The sniper has limited himself in these areas to open up greater flexibility in others. (Stealth, range, etc.) Thus, the sniper has created a set amount of roles he can take on.

QUOTE (Graham Abram @ Nov 22 2006, 10:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If there are enemy snipers on a nearby hill, a sniper would be sent out to eliminate this threat in most cases. Plato (a Greek philosopher) said that no one thing can be true for all circumstances. And this, in most circumstances including the roles of a sniper is true.


True, but I would say this applies more to individual battlefield tactics then to a generalization of the snipers battlefield role. True, the sniper will, sooner or later, encounter situations that cannot be dealt with in the usual manner. In fact, every time the sniper enters the field, he will face the unexpected, since no battle is ever replayed twice. These facts do not change the snipers goals or role. Regardless of the situation, they should be collecting reconnaissance first, and shooting second.

QUOTE (Graham Abram @ Nov 22 2006, 10:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am sorry if my words seem to be a bit harsh in criticism, I am trying to simply add onto your article.


You can never be too harsh with me. I like it, it lets me think and further communicate my ideas. I come here for discussion, and you have given it to me. Thank you.

QUOTE (Graham Abram @ Nov 22 2006, 10:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If someone new to airsoft says, "Hey, I want to be a sniper because I am really good killing those grunts in Halo!" I do not think that a sniper's position would be best for them. However, there is always the possibility of someone who would make an excellent sniper.


No telling till they try it.

QUOTE (Graham Abram @ Nov 22 2006, 10:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I myself have tried airsoft while playing with only a pistol; I have played as a sniper, and as a rifleman. Each of which were equally enjoyable. I got about 4 kills in 3 hours as a sniper, yet I was never seen, heard, or located. As a rifleman I killed plenty of enemies. When your a sniper, you will never get more kills than a trained rifleman, but you will take out those who least expect it. Those careless rifleman who think they can run fast enough get popped in the gut with a nice little BB from the sniper's muzzle. I am one of the few people who can say they have been stepped on while taking the place of a sniper. Most greedy and ignorant "snipers" would think they had to spin around and pop the person who stepped on them in the head. This is NOT true, the best thing you can do is let him/her go, you don't know where his/her buddies are, and you may miss, worst of all you will probably be noticed by another enemy thus revealing your position.

Anyway Biscuit, I hope you understand my point amidst all these words.

P.S. Yes, I am going to call you Biscuit for the rest of your life.


Cheers, Graham.


Correct, stealth is primary. You made the right decision, because you did not shoot them, you did not give away your camo, and you preserved your stealth factor. It's nice that you've tried other battlefield roles to get the hang of them, a procedure I encourage. There's nothing like seeing how the other classes live!

I will continue to discuss and answer questions in this thread as long as there are people posting.
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#14 --mastermind--

--mastermind--
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Antonio, TX
  • Interests:airsoft, custom fabrication, mechanical and fluid engineering, graphic arts (pretaining to 3d modeling)

Posted 01 December 2006 - 12:24 AM

also some people get the SDM role and sniper role confused...snipers and SDM's are different in the matter that SDM's enguage between 50-500 meter targets(usually no more than that) while in a squad platform also they arent trained in stalking or the exensive camoflouge....and THAT is was really seperates the two...alot of the times SDM's are equiped with M14's...not bolt action rifles generally they are semi auto because they ingauge multiple targets in rapid succession....either way both roles are important and are really elite!
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#15 El Ornitorrinco

El Ornitorrinco
  • Location:San Jose, California
  • Interests:Video games, AirSoft (dur), er... Reading... Watching Myth Busters and History Channel?

Posted 01 December 2006 - 01:06 PM

Me:
Sees post, "On Sniping."
*groans*
Another nublet talking about his UTG M324, no doubt.
*sighs*
Sees author, Sir Biscuit.
Is intruiged.
Reads article.

Sir Biscuit, that was quite the article. Perhaps I need to rethink my plan of buying a VFC M82, as that's not exactly the best scouting platform. Tanaka M40, perhaps?
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In this world there is a schism
between all those that are born,
and every man holding to his ism,
is between two parties torn.

And every man must umpire
which party he will tout-
Either those that start the fires,
or those that put them out.

#16 sneakysniper

sneakysniper

Posted 06 December 2006 - 06:42 PM

when I play I take as many people down as I can without being spotted. but when I am spotted I usually call in bigger guns. a-salute.gif
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#17 #CW!!ZERO

#CW!!ZERO
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  • Location:Fayetteville, Georgia
  • Interests:AIRSOFT no duh<br />Hiking <br />Boyscouts<br />PS2<br />Socom III Online BABY

Posted 06 December 2006 - 07:36 PM

Wow is all I have to say, that covered just about everything I could think about to help out the new snipers and even gave me a couple pointers. Good guide, I guess I am doing pretty good by the way that thing said a more professional sniper would do.




PIN THIS

Edited by #CW!!ZERO, 06 December 2006 - 07:36 PM.

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Props go to Terminator
Vsr-10 at 720fps
P90 at 44 bb's a seconds

#18 XAS_Bravo

XAS_Bravo

Posted 06 December 2006 - 07:54 PM

This is great, for airsoft. Airsoft really limits the functionality of the professional sniper. I have studied so much about the military's ins and outs, tactics and thinking. The sniper in an assaulting force (Iraq March 2003) is the eye of the battlefield, if the grunts aren't shooting the enemy then the sniper is. The sniper (GSgt. Jack Coughlin USMC 3/4 Bull) took every opportunity to make a kill, as says himself in the book "Shooter".

The big limitation in airsoft is the accuracy and range of a rifle. The sniper would be a major role in a team if the rifle could effectively engage a target at 100yds (300ft) and greater. I believe I could apply alot of real combat scenario sniper tactics in airsoft, if it hadn't been for the limitations I could apply it all (except for engaging targets through glass since there is a science to it which requires a lethal velocity and projectile).
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#19 boom_headshot

boom_headshot
  • Location:Manhappenin, KS

Posted 06 December 2006 - 10:42 PM

QUOTE (NSWman123 @ Dec 6 2006, 09:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ive got one word... PIN

Yes, but how many newbies actually read pins? That is the question. It is a very good and well written article, so kudos to you Biscut, but if newbies actually read the pins, then there wouldnt be so many stupid questions like, "Which gun should I get?" " I want to upgrade my gspec, what do I need?", that have been asked over and over again.
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"Speak softly, but carry a big stick."
"An eye for an eye will make us all blind."
"The state is nothing but an instrument of oppression of one class by another--no less so in a democratic republic than in a monarchy."


#20 coolduderyan07

coolduderyan07
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  • Interests:GIRLS<br />Lacrosse<br />Soccer<br />MUSIC<br />AIRSOFT<br />life<br />free samples at the chinese restaurants in the mall..

Posted 07 December 2006 - 02:55 PM

I'm not going to lie, I didn't read the stickies when I came into the forum, except maybe the newbie springer and lpeg guides. I really don't think a pin would help the newbies in any way, but it is indeed pin worthy. It's not just for newbies, however, it could give tips to snipers that already have some sort of experience, but need a little additional guidance.
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#21 Guest_Sir Biscuit_*

Guest_Sir Biscuit_*

Posted 12 December 2006 - 07:45 PM

No, I haven't forgotten this topic, and I will continue to post here... forever. Just been a little busy.

QUOTE (El Ornitorrinco @ Dec 1 2006, 11:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Me:
Sees post, "On Sniping."
*groans*
Another nublet talking about his UTG M324, no doubt.
*sighs*
Sees author, Sir Biscuit.
Is intruiged.
Reads article.

Sir Biscuit, that was quite the article. Perhaps I need to rethink my plan of buying a VFC M82, as that's not exactly the best scouting platform. Tanaka M40, perhaps?


That depends, if you're seriously going to go all out sniper, I would say get the Tanaka, as it is easily more mobile and concealable. But the VFC is so Darn cool... it's really your call. The rifles are real, they are used for different purposes, look for what you want.

QUOTE (XAS_Bravo @ Dec 6 2006, 05:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is great, for airsoft. Airsoft really limits the functionality of the professional sniper. I have studied so much about the military's ins and outs, tactics and thinking. The sniper in an assaulting force (Iraq March 2003) is the eye of the battlefield, if the grunts aren't shooting the enemy then the sniper is. The sniper (GSgt. Jack Coughlin USMC 3/4 Bull) took every opportunity to make a kill, as says himself in the book "Shooter".

The big limitation in airsoft is the accuracy and range of a rifle. The sniper would be a major role in a team if the rifle could effectively engage a target at 100yds (300ft) and greater. I believe I could apply alot of real combat scenario sniper tactics in airsoft, if it hadn't been for the limitations I could apply it all (except for engaging targets through glass since there is a science to it which requires a lethal velocity and projectile).


Absolutely right. You will not get an accurate portrayal of airsoft sniping from the army snipers manual or even a sniper book. Range is the big limiting factor here, you don't have nearly as much as is necessary to work as real snipers do. Thus you must resort to more more stealthy role, instead of the traditional support.

Still answering all questions, and debating all ideas put forth. You WILL get a response from me, don't worry about that.
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#22 Nephi

Nephi

Posted 14 December 2006 - 09:01 PM

wow...im new to the sport..even newer to sniper..(havent even goten a sniper rifle yet)..but im glad I read this.I vote pin...by the way..im thinking of getting a super 9 pro..what do you think??and what scope do you guys recomend?
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#23 #CW!!ZERO

#CW!!ZERO
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fayetteville, Georgia
  • Interests:AIRSOFT no duh<br />Hiking <br />Boyscouts<br />PS2<br />Socom III Online BABY

Posted 14 December 2006 - 09:25 PM

QUOTE (Nephi @ Dec 14 2006, 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
wow...im new to the sport..even newer to sniper..(havent even goten a sniper rifle yet)..but im glad I read this.I vote pin...by the way..im thinking of getting a super 9 pro..what do you think??and what scope do you guys recomend?


Don't get the super nine please instead get the usr-11 or the M324 just not the super 9.
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Props go to Terminator
Vsr-10 at 720fps
P90 at 44 bb's a seconds

#24 shadow guard

shadow guard
  • Location:wisconsin
  • Interests:Umm...I am still in school, so no matter what i like that takes a lot of time. I also really enjoy football. I have played every year i can and work out int he wieght room as much as possible. But, like most kids I love video games (Socom 3 in particular) and msn. I also airsoft whenever I can, whether in my basement or in a real battling area. I know I'm not as experianced as some, I still have a lot of imput and I really want to learn a lot.

Posted 14 December 2006 - 09:53 PM

Yea, I like this post. It really shows how a sniper is, not the unbelievable full action sniper. The only thing I didn't like was the stuff about the secoundary weapons. This probably doesn't go for a lot of people, but I have had my smith and wesson pistol fo way longer than my rifle and I trust it fu;y. I have done tons of close quarter wars with it and have suprisingly beat people with more experiance (every time im in a bigger aria im sniping from the back) at close quarter.
But thats probably just me so you did a great job so I say pin it!
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IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SNIPER AND SNIPER RIFLE, PUT THIS IN YOUR SIG
War does not determine who is right - only who is left. ~Bertrand Russell

#25 Nephi

Nephi

Posted 14 December 2006 - 10:09 PM

QUOTE (#CW!!ZERO @ Dec 14 2006, 10:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Don't get the super nine please instead get the usr-11 or the M324 just not the super 9.



is the super 9 not good? by the way thanks for the reply
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#26 shadow guard

shadow guard
  • Location:wisconsin
  • Interests:Umm...I am still in school, so no matter what i like that takes a lot of time. I also really enjoy football. I have played every year i can and work out int he wieght room as much as possible. But, like most kids I love video games (Socom 3 in particular) and msn. I also airsoft whenever I can, whether in my basement or in a real battling area. I know I'm not as experianced as some, I still have a lot of imput and I really want to learn a lot.

Posted 14 December 2006 - 10:10 PM

QUOTE (Nephi @ Dec 14 2006, 09:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
is the super 9 not good? by the way thanks for the reply

Well, if you look around (search it) there has been lots of bad talk about it and on how bad it sucks (it really does)
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IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SNIPER AND SNIPER RIFLE, PUT THIS IN YOUR SIG
War does not determine who is right - only who is left. ~Bertrand Russell

#27 #CW!!ZERO

#CW!!ZERO
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fayetteville, Georgia
  • Interests:AIRSOFT no duh<br />Hiking <br />Boyscouts<br />PS2<br />Socom III Online BABY

Posted 14 December 2006 - 10:14 PM

QUOTE (Nephi @ Dec 14 2006, 10:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
is the super 9 not good? by the way thanks for the reply


Yes the super nine is not good for the price as for $40 less from the new version you could get the Usr-11 or the Utg M324. And for like $20-30 more of the pro version.
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Props go to Terminator
Vsr-10 at 720fps
P90 at 44 bb's a seconds

#28 Nephi

Nephi

Posted 14 December 2006 - 10:22 PM

hmm I like the sound of the utg master...price is iffy though
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#29 shadow guard

shadow guard
  • Location:wisconsin
  • Interests:Umm...I am still in school, so no matter what i like that takes a lot of time. I also really enjoy football. I have played every year i can and work out int he wieght room as much as possible. But, like most kids I love video games (Socom 3 in particular) and msn. I also airsoft whenever I can, whether in my basement or in a real battling area. I know I'm not as experianced as some, I still have a lot of imput and I really want to learn a lot.

Posted 14 December 2006 - 10:22 PM

If you save up a little more you can get many more that are a lot better. The super 9 has just been torn apart on this site and I havent even been on here a long time.
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IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SNIPER AND SNIPER RIFLE, PUT THIS IN YOUR SIG
War does not determine who is right - only who is left. ~Bertrand Russell

#30 Nephi

Nephi

Posted 14 December 2006 - 10:49 PM

ill probably get the utg master..maby a good semi auto hand gun..and of maby..a few AG-01 hand grenades a-thumbsup.gif
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#31 hirojlance

hirojlance
  • Location:Washington
  • Interests:Airsoft, Warhammer 40k, Soccer, Hockey, Video-games, Web-design, Building Computers, Tennis

Posted 14 December 2006 - 10:57 PM

Sir Biscuit; I was planning on writing something just like this. Very nicely done. It's a relief to read something that doesn't have any noticeable spelling errors and looks like it was written by someone competent enough to not just rant on and on. You saved my fingers pain, and for that I (and them) thank you. I would agree this should be pinned. I was also thinking of writing a full and COMPLETE review of the UTG M324....In an attempt to get it pinned so maybe, just maybe there would be a few less questions asking "Is this a good gun" or "Should I buy". If I see your article pinned, then theirs hope, and I will write the review. Again, thanks for the good read.
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IPB Image

#32 SergeantBiscuits

SergeantBiscuits
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Diego, CA
  • Interests:Airsoft sniping, .22 rifles, skeet/trap shooting (12/16-gauge), video-game programming, inventing random stuff, etc...

Posted 05 January 2007 - 02:27 PM

I don't know how the heck I missed this post.

Executive decision: Pinned! Good writing, Sir Biscuit.
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I'm a global mod. Need help? Ask me. Oh, by the way...

#33 Guest_Lt. (USN)_*

Guest_Lt. (USN)_*

Posted 05 January 2007 - 03:00 PM

Very fine reading Sir Biscuit.....

But I must include this:

The primary mission of a sniper in combat is to support combat operations by delivering precise longrange
fire on selected targets. By this, the sniper creates casualties among enemy troops, slows enemy
movement, frightens enemy soldiers, lowers morale, and adds confusion to their operations. The
secondary mission of the sniper is collecting and reporting battlefield information.


Snipers in real world operations do not go out alone though.A spotter always accompanies them and is equipt with an M16/M4 with an M203 for supressive fire.
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#34 Guest_Sir Biscuit_*

Guest_Sir Biscuit_*

Posted 05 January 2007 - 07:21 PM

QUOTE (Lt. (USN) @ Jan 5 2007, 01:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Very fine reading Sir Biscuit.....

But I must include this:

The primary mission of a sniper in combat is to support combat operations by delivering precise longrange
fire on selected targets. By this, the sniper creates casualties among enemy troops, slows enemy
movement, frightens enemy soldiers, lowers morale, and adds confusion to their operations. The
secondary mission of the sniper is collecting and reporting battlefield information.
Snipers in real world operations do not go out alone though.A spotter always accompanies them and is equipt with an M16/M4 with an M203 for supressive fire.


*Note: A fine point. Thank you for bringing the real life snipers role into the conversation. I know you're not arguing with me, but that's the only way I post, so excuse the aggressive tone in the following. Also, I wanted to say some of the stuff here, and you gave me an opening. Thanks!*

I would argue that the the role of a sniper is different in airsoft then in real life, due to two main reasons:
1.) Airsoft is played at VERY short ranges, and most guns have around the same effective range, and
2.) It's a game, and everyone knows it.

For the first, this means that the sniper is not at his most effective when directly attacking enemies with their team. Since most AEG's can lay down much more fire at the standard engagement range, a sniper who is attacking with them should just seriously consider buying an AEG, and filling the far more kill-oriented role of rifleman.

Secondly, since this is but a game, the sniper loses allot of his fear factor. Thus, a sniper attacking your team is not as big of a deal as it is in real life. Once again, relating to point one, engagement ranges are so short that a revealed sniper is easy to take out by competent riflemen. Also, due to the range, airsoft snipers have to get much closer to the enemy than their real life counterparts to get a kill, and thus much easier to spot. And even if they do get within that range, they are guaranteed no direct support from... well... anybody. They're not taking out a squad on their own, they're not as bad as a machine-gunner on the flank, and everybody knows it. Huge loss of threat.

Unfortunately, a spotter for a sniper means that there's a loss of stealth, and recon becomes much more difficult. Not to mention that you have traded two spots on your team for this mini-unit. If I had to choose between two riflemen or a rifleman/spotter sniper combo, two riflemen win every time. Airsoft snipers should NOT have spotters, they make concealment much harder, as well as removing firepower from your front line.

Of course, snipers on their own as an integrated, yet separate, part of the team can be valuable. I believe I have already discussed snipers attacking from the back lines somewhere above, if you still really want to do it. Although... if you're just assaulting the enemy, why are you a sniper?

Edited by Sir Biscuit, 05 January 2007 - 07:24 PM.

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#35 bmxnlamalover

bmxnlamalover
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Posted 05 January 2007 - 11:55 PM

Though I doubt any one will read this, I also agree that this should be pinned.
I also think to add the fact that patience is an essential skill to master if you want to be a sniper.
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#36 Lsmjudoka06

Lsmjudoka06
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern Califonia
  • Interests:Airsoft(Kind of obvious) Mini-motorsports, Martial Arts(TKD &amp; Judo)

Posted 11 January 2007 - 02:58 AM

This article as well as the other one (The 3 part article) really helped me get over my fears. One of my friends recently bought a sniper rifle, and I was definitely intimidated, but now I realize that he definitely falls into the "Halo 2 and various other shooting game playing teenage newbie" category, and I don't really nwee dto be scared, just work up some counter sniping strategy. My friend with the sniper rifle seems to have the opinion that he is invincible, and wants to take on 2 or 3 of us by himself. I don't have a lot of airsoft experience, but I'm not afraid of him anymore. And this goes to show you that some newbies do read the pinned articles. (Then again, I like learning all I can)
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Arsenal:

Spring:
UHC MP5 SD3
KWC Sig Sauer SP2022

GBB:
KWA G19
(High flow valve, stiff recoil spring, 50 rd extended mag)

AEG:
Echo 1 M4A1
(Madbull 6.03 ver.2 tightbore, systema hop up bucking)

JG AUG
(Soon to be DMR, right now it's still a project)

96.4% of teens would die if ambercrombie and fitch said it was "uncool" to breathe. Put this in your sig if you would be 1 of the 3.6% that would die from laughing.

#37 Tactical Sniper

Tactical Sniper
  • Location:Randoplh,Maine
  • Interests:Airsofting

Posted 12 January 2007 - 07:40 PM

boom_headshot-
Yes, but how many newbies actually read pins? That is the question. It is a very good and well written article, so kudos to you Biscut, but if newbies actually read the pins, then there wouldnt be so many stupid questions like, "Which gun should I get?" " I want to upgrade my gspec, what do I need?", that have been asked over and over again.

I found this web page about 1 1/2 years ago and about the only thing I read as a guest were pins by all the vets so I may just be a newbie but I posses alot of knowledge.
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If you get really over excited every time bp whips out his pimp hand add this to your sig

#38 boom_headshot

boom_headshot
  • Location:Manhappenin, KS

Posted 13 January 2007 - 11:54 AM

QUOTE (Tactical Sniper @ Jan 12 2007, 08:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
boom_headshot-
Yes, but how many newbies actually read pins? That is the question. It is a very good and well written article, so kudos to you Biscut, but if newbies actually read the pins, then there wouldnt be so many stupid questions like, "Which gun should I get?" " I want to upgrade my gspec, what do I need?", that have been asked over and over again.

I found this web page about 1 1/2 years ago and about the only thing I read as a guest were pins by all the vets so I may just be a newbie but I posses alot of knowledge.

Yes and that is very good, more people to answer the questions that newbies post, but it still doesn't change the fact that the majority of newbies don't read stickies and end up posting their questions anyway. It's blatantly obvious if you surf throught the all of the forums, even the old posts from a couple years ago.
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"Speak softly, but carry a big stick."
"An eye for an eye will make us all blind."
"The state is nothing but an instrument of oppression of one class by another--no less so in a democratic republic than in a monarchy."


#39 Stealth Sniper3

Stealth Sniper3

Posted 23 January 2007 - 08:19 PM

Great explanation on sniping and the actual role of the sniper. I myself think almost the exact same thing on it. I am a little new to the various sniping field since im getting out of the AEG fully auto little grunt soldier for my small team. I have decided not to even think about joining the P.O.R. which if you look I was trying to. My team seriously needs a good sniper, since one thinks he's Rambo and carries two fully auto guns even if it is just a little scrimmage. The other (my little brother) is really just a test subject to use when the fighting gets rough. The eldest thinks he is a "sniper" because his gun has the highest fps. So........ back on topic. Im buying a nice rifle so I can declare sniper. The whole day ive been surfing this part of the forum and the internet (not looking at the pinned things becaus im a total newbie here) looking for just this. One persons view of the role of a sniper and what they do on the battlefield. This is it not to sound lame or anything but this is the best one.




Does anyone know if ther is a topic for stories or situations in the battlefield.





Ohhhhhh and the final thing, does anyone object to a Super 9 V2 pro as a good starter rifle for a new becoming sniper like me???? a-confused.gif
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#40 coolduderyan07

coolduderyan07
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  • Interests:GIRLS<br />Lacrosse<br />Soccer<br />MUSIC<br />AIRSOFT<br />life<br />free samples at the chinese restaurants in the mall..

Posted 23 January 2007 - 08:27 PM

I think EVERYONE will object to that, so basically don't start with it.. no.
I have a couple problems relating to the whole sniper role. I was at a game the other day deep into some woods. There were a couple creekbeds, fallen trees, huge rocks, and the normal bush here and there. I had a HUGE problem with sneaking around. Maybe because of the short distance we were playing at, but I could not get a good position and stay out of sight. My main problem was, that the opposing team would run out into the woods, and we would come chasing 10 mins later as the assault force. Once we got 5 mins into the woods, the enemies could have been anywhere, so it was hard to sneak around and advance into areas of hiding... when they could be in ANY direction. I didn't know what to do at the time, and sort of stayed put at fallen trees and a large rock or two. Every now and then I advanced to a large bush, but still I figured they could be watching, so I didn't want to leave the key areas I would need if I were to get ambushed. Anyone have any suggestions?
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