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Tanio-koba Hop Twist Barrel?


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65 replies to this topic

#1 Bullfrog

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 12:37 PM

I was shopping for a tight bore inner barrel at the WGC site and ran across this interesting product. The Tanio-Koba Hop Twist Barrel has what appears to be a rifled barrel that is suppose to spin the bb for more accuracy. Has anyone tried this barrel and if so what was the outcome.
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#2 JaysonR

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 02:59 PM

QUOTE (Bullfrog @ Nov 14 2006, 07:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was shopping for a tight bore inner barrel at the WGC site and ran across this interesting product. The Tanio-Koba Hop Twist Barrel has what appears to be a rifled barrel that is suppose to spin the bb for more accuracy. Has anyone tried this barrel and if so what was the outcome.


I can testify that this is probably the best barrel you can buy. I have this on my mp5k and with regular upgrades, I can hit a man sized target about 200 ft away with .25g bbs with proper hop-up setting of course. This barrel is amazing and not to mention it hurts like a mofo, so I've been told. Everyone I've shot has told me that it hurts, ALOT. Even with bdus on with undershirts.

FPS doesn't improve that much, which is weird since it carries so much more momentum because of the reduced friction. So I can't really explain why it hurts so much more seeing as I have never been shot by it, lol. Remember, TK is the originator of airsoft.
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#3 Guest_callme.nasty_*

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 04:26 PM

QUOTE (JaysonR @ Nov 14 2006, 02:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can testify that this is probably the best barrel you can buy. I have this on my mp5k and with regular upgrades, I can hit a man sized target about 200 ft away with .25g bbs with proper hop-up setting of course. This barrel is amazing and not to mention it hurts like a mofo, so I've been told. Everyone I've shot has told me that it hurts, ALOT. Even with bdus on with undershirts.

FPS doesn't improve that much, which is weird since it carries so much more momentum because of the reduced friction. So I can't really explain why it hurts so much more seeing as I have never been shot by it, lol. Remember, TK is the originator of airsoft.


what fps are you shooting at?
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#4 dwong

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 06:00 PM

I've read that these barrels work best with guns around 328 fps.
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#5 Guest_callme.nasty_*

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 06:21 PM

QUOTE (dwong @ Nov 14 2006, 06:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've read that these barrels work best with guns around 328 fps.


perfect! I've got a pdi 120 in my gun. actually, so I don't take this topic over, if someone could go check out my topic called Low Powered sniper rifle in the AEG section...
and hoever started this topic, I'll be getting one for christmas and can give you a review... if you feel like waiting that long a-crazy.gif

oh and by the way, the barrel's do not actually spin the bb, rather than create a spinning cushion of air around the bb. since the bb does not actually come in contact with the barrel, it is supposedly much more accurate and gets much more range.
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#6 Guest_Mad_tomato_*

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 08:41 PM

Anyone know if these things are still effective if you shoot at a very high rps? Im talking probably 35rps. And also, would a pdi 140 work ok with the twist? or is that too high fps?

Edited by Mad_tomato, 14 November 2006 - 08:46 PM.

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#7 notAnotC

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 09:10 PM

I think the 140 is to high. you are not supposed to use the barrel if you shoot over 1 joule (328 fps or like that) simply because the BB would enter and exit the barrel too quick before the air cushion would even take effect. the RPS or ROF shouldnt matter, I don't think. as long as its still 1 joule or under.
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#8 Guest_callme.nasty_*

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 09:26 PM

QUOTE (notAnotC @ Nov 14 2006, 09:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think the 140 is to high. you are not supposed to use the barrel if you shoot over 1 joule (328 fps or like that) simply because the BB would enter and exit the barrel too quick before the air cushion would even take effect. the RPS or ROF shouldnt matter, I don't think. as long as its still 1 joule or under.


I agree. I would like some clarification on how well this thing works on full auto. for some reason I'm thinking that many bb's passing through at that speed could stir up the air and mess up the gyro effect. I would think not though...
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#9 El Ornitorrinco

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 10:42 PM

*sighs*

No reasearch? None? At all?

The barrel has reverse rifling, which means that instead of the projectile being spun, the air around the projectile is spun. This creates an air cushion, meaning less friction and bouncing and higher accuracy.

Edited by El Ornitorrinco, 14 November 2006 - 10:45 PM.

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#10 Bullfrog

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 10:36 AM

QUOTE (El Ornitorrinco @ Nov 14 2006, 11:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
*sighs*

No reasearch? None? At all?

The barrel has reverse rifling, which means that instead of the projectile being spun, the air around the projectile is spun. This creates an air cushion, meaning less friction and bouncing and higher accuracy.


Well, actually I did do a couple of searches for info before I posted my question. Unfortunately I don't speak Japanese. a-crazy.gif Plus, as my son says, my computer hacking skills are t-suck. At any rate I appreciate the info in your reply and was wondering if you would mind divulging your info source. Thanks
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#11 Guest_Mad_tomato_*

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 06:07 PM

QUOTE (El Ornitorrinco @ Nov 14 2006, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
*sighs*

No reasearch? None? At all?

The barrel has reverse rifling, which means that instead of the projectile being spun, the air around the projectile is spun. This creates an air cushion, meaning less friction and bouncing and higher accuracy.

OK, but callmenasty has already established that so... Would the air thigy mess up at 30rps?
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#12 Guest_callme.nasty_*

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 06:10 PM

QUOTE (Bullfrog @ Nov 15 2006, 10:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, actually I did do a couple of searches for info before I posted my question. Unfortunately I don't speak Japanese. a-crazy.gif Plus, as my son says, my computer hacking skills are t-suck. At any rate I appreciate the info in your reply and was wondering if you would mind divulging your info source. Thanks


*sighs*

I've already stated that.
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#13 The Solution

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 06:30 PM

So is this barrel better than a prometheus tightbore barrel? And to clarify does it have to be over 328 fps to work or under 328 fps?
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#14 Guest_callme.nasty_*

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 06:45 PM

QUOTE (The Solution @ Nov 15 2006, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So is this barrel better than a prometheus tightbore barrel? And to clarify does it have to be over 328 fps to work or under 328 fps?

it should be more accurate than a promethius, and have much more range. the gun has to be 1 joule and under, or about 328 and under
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#15 eodcole

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 07:09 AM

Just to clarify even more if I took a gun with .3g bbs and stuck this barrel in it but had it shooting around 330fps then it'd work just fine right? I know that won't be 1 joule but you can see what I'm getting at.
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#16 Bullfrog

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 10:04 AM

QUOTE (callme.nasty @ Nov 14 2006, 07:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
perfect! I've got a pdi 120 in my gun. actually, so I don't take this topic over, if someone could go check out my topic called Low Powered sniper rifle in the AEG section...
and hoever started this topic, I'll be getting one for christmas and can give you a review... if you feel like waiting that long a-crazy.gif

oh and by the way, the barrel's do not actually spin the bb, rather than create a spinning cushion of air around the bb. since the bb does not actually come in contact with the barrel, it is supposedly much more accurate and gets much more range.


Sorry about not remembering your original comment concerning the way the barrel makes a cushion of air. Just wait until you reach 50 and hopefully your memory won't be as bad as mine. a-blushing.gif I am still curious where your info came from. I have been on a mission lately to collect hard to find info about airsoft upgrades in an effort to make the best decisions about what to do with my G36c.

Besides the twist barrel I ordered yesterday I also have a KM, teflon barrel of the same length coming as well. So between the two barrels and the spring upgrade I should be able to test the differences. And if the spring upgrade overpowers the twist barrel I could always put the original CA G36c spring back in to see how that compares. Stay tuned.
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#17 Guest_callme.nasty_*

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 01:09 PM

QUOTE (Bullfrog @ Nov 16 2006, 10:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sorry about not remembering your original comment concerning the way the barrel makes a cushion of air. Just wait until you reach 50 and hopefully your memory won't be as bad as mine. a-blushing.gif I am still curious where your info came from. I have been on a mission lately to collect hard to find info about airsoft upgrades in an effort to make the best decisions about what to do with my G36c.

Besides the twist barrel I ordered yesterday I also have a KM, teflon barrel of the same length coming as well. So between the two barrels and the spring upgrade I should be able to test the differences. And if the spring upgrade overpowers the twist barrel I could always put the original CA G36c spring back in to see how that compares. Stay tuned.


sweet. if you could, test accuracy from multiple different distances. try to get a different paper target for each test, so we can see the actual results. no one yet has done side by side tests against another tightbore. also, check how the groupings compare on full auto, since no one yet has any idea whether this thing works on full auto or not.
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#18 Bullfrog

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 02:06 PM

QUOTE (callme.nasty @ Nov 16 2006, 02:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
sweet. if you could, test accuracy from multiple different distances. try to get a different paper target for each test, so we can see the actual results. no one yet has done side by side tests against another tightbore. also, check how the groupings compare on full auto, since no one yet has any idea whether this thing works on full auto or not.


I may also try a 9.6v battery to increase the ROF, in addition to the 8.4v battery. And just for fun I will try both .20 and .25 bbs for the sake of science.

My parts won't come in until next week and depending on family and work schedules this test may take a week or two to get set up.

BTW - a silent head set will lower fps between 5 and 20 fps, according to a reliable source. The sound reduction is suppose to be significant but I have no first hand knowledge.
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#19 Guest_callme.nasty_*

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 02:15 PM

QUOTE (Bullfrog @ Nov 16 2006, 02:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I may also try a 9.6v battery to increase the ROF, in addition to the 8.4v battery. And just for fun I will try both .20 and .25 bbs for the sake of science.

My parts won't come in until next week and depending on family and work schedules this test may take a week or two to get set up.

BTW - a silent head set will lower fps between 5 and 20 fps, according to a reliable source. The sound reduction is suppose to be significant but I have no first hand knowledge.


k thanks.
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#20 dirtyroastbeef

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 03:23 PM

I'd love to see the results when you're done testing!
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#21 Whorify

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 04:07 PM

I can offically say that the TK barrel at a high FPS will not hurt the gun, but the rifling will have no effects (just like previuosly stated in the thread). I have a TK Barrel in my M4 shooting at 375-380FPS. There's no effects in accuracy from a KM tight bore to the TK barrel at that FPS.

Luckily now that the Tanio Koba barrel is getting more popular more people can be aware of what to expect from these barrels and "NOT" assume what they expect it to do. So if you have a stock AEG, it'll almost be ideal to just drop one of these barrels in your AEG and be able to shoot just as far as higher powered AEGs (especially CA guns since they average in the 320-330 FPS ragne)
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#22 dirtyroastbeef

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 05:16 PM

Are these barrels affected by bb weight? Meaning that if my gun shoots at 360fps with .20's and I were to use .25's, dropping my fps down below 330, would the barrel be just as effective if I was shooting .20's at 330 fps?
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#23 Guest_callme.nasty_*

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 05:20 PM

QUOTE (Whorify @ Nov 16 2006, 04:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can offically say that the TK barrel at a high FPS will not hurt the gun, but the rifling will have no effects (just like previuosly stated in the thread). I have a TK Barrel in my M4 shooting at 375-380FPS. There's no effects in accuracy from a KM tight bore to the TK barrel at that FPS.

Luckily now that the Tanio Koba barrel is getting more popular more people can be aware of what to expect from these barrels and "NOT" assume what they expect it to do. So if you have a stock AEG, it'll almost be ideal to just drop one of these barrels in your AEG and be able to shoot just as far as higher powered AEGs (especially CA guns since they average in the 320-330 FPS ragne)


so at that high of an FPS, its not ideal, but it's still better than stock? and how is your gun on full auto.
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#24 Bullfrog

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 05:49 PM

QUOTE (dirtyroastbeef @ Nov 16 2006, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Are these barrels affected by bb weight? Meaning that if my gun shoots at 360fps with .20's and I were to use .25's, dropping my fps down below 330, would the barrel be just as effective if I was shooting .20's at 330 fps?


Someone correct me if I'm wrong but it has more to do with joules than fps. A .20 bb going 360fps has the same amount of joules as a .25 bb going 320fps, assuming the decrease is purely a result of a heavier bb.

I still plan to do my tests as stated just to satisfy the scientist in me.

Edited by Bullfrog, 16 November 2006 - 05:50 PM.

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#25 Guest_callme.nasty_*

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 05:56 PM

QUOTE (Bullfrog @ Nov 16 2006, 05:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but it has more to do with joules than fps. A .20 bb going 360fps has the same amount of joules as a .25 bb going 320fps, assuming the decrease is purely a result of a heavier bb.

I still plan to do my tests as stated just to satisfy the scientist in me.


people say it's joules, but I would think it has to do with how fast the bb is actually traveling through the barrel. so if it's not working right, I think you could just drop in some heavier bb's.

Edited by callme.nasty, 16 November 2006 - 05:57 PM.

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#26 eodcole

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 06:14 PM

QUOTE (callme.nasty @ Nov 16 2006, 04:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
people say it's joules, but I would think it has to do with how fast the bb is actually traveling through the barrel. so if it's not working right, I think you could just drop in some heavier bb's.


Well the way I'm thinking it shouldn't be the joules but the velocity of the bb in this case. With a higher velocity it travels through the barrel faster so the barrel doesn't have enough time to cause it's effect on the bb. Now that effect might be hindered by the fact that the bb is heavier and therefore it will be more difficult to effect it's flight via the reverse rifling groves. The only way to test this is to get a gun shooting way over 330fps with .2s and drop in .25s or closer to .3s to see if it matters. I'm very interested in this barrel and will possibly buy one with a M120 or so spring installed in my AUG and then shoot .3ish bbs at the lower velocity. They'll carry much further and hold their velocity longer not to mention if the barrel is the dream maker it is said to be that would be a pretty kick censored2.gif setup for shooting heavy bbs.
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#27 JaysonP

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 06:45 PM

QUOTE (Bullfrog @ Nov 16 2006, 07:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have been on a mission lately to collect hard to find info about airsoft upgrades in an effort to make the best decisions about what to do with my G36c.


Yeah, good luck with that... you probably won't actually FIND the information here, since no one seems to go the scientific route and PROVE anything.. these whole boards are filled with a whole lotta speculation. Only a few people have actually took it upon themselves (and stopped taking the word of Asian marketeers and salesman) to get some hard scientific PROOF about certain upgrades/barrels/parts/accesories and all that.

Any possible way you could PM me what you got so far? I also have a G36c which is pretty heavily upgraded now, and I would be happy to share my upgrades/suggestions for it if you'd like, in return for any links/info to actual datum you may have.

Once I get my gun downgraded back to stock for testing purposes, I am going to make a review/data thread about the Dees 6.01 tightbore barrels. I own one in my gun and I will hopefully be able to get some hard values on accuracy/velocity increase. I have already got my testing apparatuses in place, just gotta find the time to actually go through with it.

One last note, it would seem to me that Tanio Koba would make some barrels for 1.5 joule guns, too... I would think this would be simply down to making the reverse-rifling grooves tighter or more relaxed... I couldn't say, though, since I'm no engineer.
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#28 Guest_callme.nasty_*

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 06:48 PM

QUOTE (JaysonP @ Nov 16 2006, 06:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, good luck with that... you probably won't actually FIND the information here, since no one seems to go the scientific route and PROVE anything.. these whole boards are filled with a whole lotta speculation. Only a few people have actually took it upon themselves (and stopped taking the word of Asian marketeers and salesman) to get some hard scientific PROOF about certain upgrades/barrels/parts/accesories and all that.

Any possible way you could PM me what you got so far? I also have a G36c which is pretty heavily upgraded now, and I would be happy to share my upgrades/suggestions for it if you'd like, in return for any links/info to actual datum you may have.

Once I get my gun downgraded back to stock for testing purposes, I am going to make a review/data thread about the Dees 6.01 tightbore barrels. I own one in my gun and I will hopefully be able to get some hard values on accuracy/velocity increase. I have already got my testing apparatuses in place, just gotta find the time to actually go through with it.

One last note, it would seem to me that Tanio Koba would make some barrels for 1.5 joule guns, too... I would think this would be simply down to making the reverse-rifling grooves tighter or more relaxed... I couldn't say, though, since I'm no engineer.


thats what I was thinking. but if a higher fps calls for more relaxed grooves, they probably wouldn't make as much of an effect. or maybe they will.

Edited by callme.nasty, 16 November 2006 - 07:10 PM.

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#29 Bullfrog

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 08:33 PM

QUOTE (JaysonP @ Nov 16 2006, 07:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, good luck with that... you probably won't actually FIND the information here, since no one seems to go the scientific route and PROVE anything.. these whole boards are filled with a whole lotta speculation. Only a few people have actually took it upon themselves (and stopped taking the word of Asian marketeers and salesman) to get some hard scientific PROOF about certain upgrades/barrels/parts/accesories and all that.

Any possible way you could PM me what you got so far? I also have a G36c which is pretty heavily upgraded now, and I would be happy to share my upgrades/suggestions for it if you'd like, in return for any links/info to actual datum you may have.

Once I get my gun downgraded back to stock for testing purposes, I am going to make a review/data thread about the Dees 6.01 tightbore barrels. I own one in my gun and I will hopefully be able to get some hard values on accuracy/velocity increase. I have already got my testing apparatuses in place, just gotta find the time to actually go through with it.

One last note, it would seem to me that Tanio Koba would make some barrels for 1.5 joule guns, too... I would think this would be simply down to making the reverse-rifling grooves tighter or more relaxed... I couldn't say, though, since I'm no engineer.


So far I haven't got too much hard data. Mainly information based on non-imperical "facts" and opinions based on personal experience. There were two fps charts made that tested just about every spring on the market using the same gun setup. http://www.mechbox.c...ison-chart.html or http://www.airsoftca...pringChart.html

Like I said before when I get my parts in from wgcshop.com I will have an interesting array of barrels and springs to do worthwhile testing. Currently my G36c is shooting ~365fps using .25 bbs with a 300mm, 6.04 tight bore inner barrel and a 110 spring. It was shooting 330fps with .2 bbs on stock internals and barrel. I plan to test the new 363mm KM teflon inner barrel against the 363mm TK twist barrel and the 300mm inner barrel and the 247mm stock barrel. With each barrel I will use the upgrade spring and the stock spring.
I will also test each set up with .20 and .25 bbs. Possibly .3 bbs if I can get some in time. Each set up will be chrono'ed and set in a rifle stand to shoot targets set at three or four distances. Target tests will be in semi and auto mode. The hard part will be to get the hop up adjusted optimally for each set up so that the results will have meaningful comparisons.

Any suggesions for this experiment are welcomed.
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"but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend..." Faramir
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#30 Guest_Mad_tomato_*

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 09:00 PM

.Think about it logically. Its not the joulde, I believe they stated that for .2 using only as a easy way to know what to put your fps limit at. Its not a matter as to how much air the bb cuts thruogh without losing resistance. It doesnt affect the air behind it. The air path is the same(almost). The air rotating around behind the bb just has to be able to actually put a effect on the bb. It is most likely how fast it leaves the barrel. AND WOULD RPS AFFECT IT?
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#31 hsimoorb

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 11:22 PM

QUOTE
AND WOULD RPS AFFECT IT?


There's absolutely no evidence or even conjecture(which is far more plentiful in this subject) to support the opinion that rate of fire would matter.
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#32 Guest_callme.nasty_*

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 12:48 AM

QUOTE (hsimoorb @ Nov 18 2006, 11:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There's absolutely no evidence or even conjecture(which is far more plentiful in this subject) to support the opinion that rate of fire would matter.


it definetely isn't proven, but I can see how its possible.

I bet Adam and Jamie over at mythbuster's could find a better way to make these things work.
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#33 hsimoorb

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Posted 20 November 2006 - 03:38 PM

QUOTE
I bet Adam and Jamie over at mythbuster's could find a better way to make these things work.


Dude, those guys could make a killing in the airsoft market. I would totaly buy an A&J M4.
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#34 tmfreak

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 01:20 PM

Madbull produces their own rifled inner barrels as well. They run about 45$
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#35 Bullfrog

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 05:46 PM

QUOTE (tmfreak @ Nov 21 2006, 02:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Madbull produces their own rifled inner barrels as well. They run about 45$


Can you give a link to where they are available?
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"but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend..." Faramir
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#36 KrYpTiK

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 06:51 PM

http://www.airsoftgi...f85e5023e272462
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#37 Guest_callme.nasty_*

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 06:43 PM

have you done the tests yet? or atleast used the barrel?
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#38 H&KIsAWESOME

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 07:16 PM

Here is a nice review(of a sort) on the barrels.

QUOTE (tmfreak @ Nov 21 2006, 11:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Madbull produces their own rifled inner barrels as well. They run about 45$


Are you sure about that? I thought MadBull barrels were smooth bore. a-salute.gif
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I need so much more experience, so please, take what I say, compare it with what experts say, and what I've personally done, and your experience as well...I'd rather you get the right answer in the end than just take me at my word if I'm wrong or even if I'm right.

:-) Good day.

#39 Bullfrog

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 11:49 AM

QUOTE (callme.nasty @ Dec 11 2006, 07:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
have you done the tests yet? or atleast used the barrel?

I have installed the barrel in my G36c and I am waiting for good weather and time to run the tests. I have already tested a KM teflon tightbore in my AEG. I am currently reaching 371fps with .2 bbs so I look forward to what may or may not happen to my accuracy. I may go back down to my stock spring for additional tests before this is all completed. If the weather cooperates I hope to have all my tests done in the next week or two.
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"but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend..." Faramir
Battery Encyclopedia!!!

Even after 29 years, I'm still her handsome prince...I am one happy frog.

#40 eodcole

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Posted 05 February 2007 - 03:55 PM

QUOTE (Bullfrog @ Dec 12 2006, 10:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have installed the barrel in my G36c and I am waiting for good weather and time to run the tests. I have already tested a KM teflon tightbore in my AEG. I am currently reaching 371fps with .2 bbs so I look forward to what may or may not happen to my accuracy. I may go back down to my stock spring for additional tests before this is all completed. If the weather cooperates I hope to have all my tests done in the next week or two.


Any updates on this bullfrog?
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