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Age Limits For Airsoft Guns?


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80 replies to this topic

#1 p51

p51
  • Location:Done with airsoft
  • Interests:No longer airsoft. I'm tired of it.

Posted 20 December 2006 - 09:33 PM

I read the article below, and it really made me wonder how many of the people who are giving a black eye to our pastime are really the kids, and if any of them are adults.
http://seattletimes....327_guns20.html
Sure, it's the typical "knee jerk" media claptrap that shows only one side of an issue (I worked for a few newspapers before I went into the Army, you have no idea how lopsided it really is in the newsrooms), but let's get past that point and try to think objectively for the good of the hobby itself. I know what I'm about to suggest will be flamed outright by the younger set. I can live with that.
If indeed most of the bad press on airsoft guns in public is being caused by younger (under 18) people, would it be best to have an age limit for their purchase and use? To me, it would be best to target the core of the people who could spoil it for everyone else, and if indeed it is children who constitute that core, I'd be perfectly willing to support a law that keeps airsoft out of children's hands until they reach a certain age.
As a government, we keep lots of things out of the hands of children, guns, cars, alcohol, voting, all kinds of things. Sure, if you're with a parent/guardian, some of these laws get bent. For example, I grew up as a competition shooter, years before I could legally own a firearm, but my Dad was always there with me and no laws were technically broken. With airsoft, if you have minors with airsoft guns in hand, there would have to be an adult with them, and that adult is liable for any bonehead actions on the part of the children. If there's no adult with them, well, they would get what they deserved then.
Yes, I know there will be a lot of replies, almost certainly all from people under the age of 18, all stating that this is a young person's hobby and how dare I even suggest this. To me, it's simply an issue of who's causing the most problems and giving the media the ammo to write inflammatory articles like this. I've never read such an article that mentioned anyone above the age of 18 doing such things. I'm sure it happens, but it sounds like the norm is for people under the age of 18 to be doing irresponsible things with airsoft guns. Clearly, a permissive culture within our society coupled with disposable income in the hands of minors in numbers for the first time in US history to this level, coupled with inexpensive airsoft guns, has been a large factor in this issue.
But let me ask you all this, who's really hurting our hobby and what actions, if not this, should we take?
Done with airsoft.

#2 Jake35

Jake35

Posted 20 December 2006 - 10:11 PM

I agree with most of what you are saying. I’m sure you know this, but it just is not everyone under the age of 18. There are countless responsible kids under 18 who play. I know that life isn’t fair but I feel that saying that people under the age of 18 shouldn’t be aloud to play just seems too harsh. I feel you in the aspect that it is mostly kids under the age of 18 who are doing most of the stupid stuff, but I just cant see airsoft cutting off most of its age group. And also how do you expect airsoft to keep going and the retailers to make money if most of the players cant legally play?
QUOTE(rhodekill_96 @ Jan 4 2007, 07:34 PM) View Post

Rank isn't important. Having 80,000 posts can't cushion stupidity, or make a reputation out of thin air.
"I second that @ss-less chaps are never a wise choice for airsoft battles, however it does add a little spice to the gameplay." Quotation from: coolduderyan07
"I wonder if any zombies are vegans, they turn plants and trees undead by eating them lol." Quotation from: JerryAgent You got a zombie problem ma'am?<(^_^)>
IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SNIPER AND SNIPER RIFLE, PUT THIS IN YOUR SIG!
IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MAG AND A CLIP, PUT THIS IN YOUR SIG!

#3 Guest_Xhado_*

Guest_Xhado_*

Posted 20 December 2006 - 10:24 PM

biggest thing we need to do is educate parents as a whole that Airsoft guns are not toys. The easiest way to do that would have them be seen as firearms under the law, thus requiring those underage to have adult supervision. Legal repercussions should be larger as well, to keep idiots in check.

#4 p51

p51
  • Location:Done with airsoft
  • Interests:No longer airsoft. I'm tired of it.

Posted 20 December 2006 - 10:31 PM

QUOTE (Xhado @ Dec 20 2006, 07:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
biggest thing we need to do is educate parents as a whole that Airsoft guns are not toys. The easiest way to do that would have them be seen as firearms under the law, thus requiring those underage to have adult supervision. Legal repercussions should be larger as well, to keep idiots in check.

I agree with this 100%. This would solve a lot of problems!
Done with airsoft.

#5 joker8baller

joker8baller
  • Location:Bay Area, California
  • Interests:Golf, Airsoft, Gaming.

Posted 20 December 2006 - 10:31 PM

QUOTE (p51 @ Dec 20 2006, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I read the article below, and it really made me wonder how many of the people who are giving a black eye to our pastime are really the kids, and if any of them are adults.
http://seattletimes....327_guns20.html
Sure, it's the typical "knee jerk" media claptrap that shows only one side of an issue (I worked for a few newspapers before I went into the Army, you have no idea how lopsided it really is in the newsrooms), but let's get past that point and try to think objectively for the good of the hobby itself. I know what I'm about to suggest will be flamed outright by the younger set. I can live with that.
If indeed most of the bad press on airsoft guns in public is being caused by younger (under 18) people, would it be best to have an age limit for their purchase and use? To me, it would be best to target the core of the people who could spoil it for everyone else, and if indeed it is children who constitute that core, I'd be perfectly willing to support a law that keeps airsoft out of children's hands until they reach a certain age.
As a government, we keep lots of things out of the hands of children, guns, cars, alcohol, voting, all kinds of things. Sure, if you're with a parent/guardian, some of these laws get bent. For example, I grew up as a competition shooter, years before I could legally own a firearm, but my Dad was always there with me and no laws were technically broken. With airsoft, if you have minors with airsoft guns in hand, there would have to be an adult with them, and that adult is liable for any bonehead actions on the part of the children. If there's no adult with them, well, they would get what they deserved then.
Yes, I know there will be a lot of replies, almost certainly all from people under the age of 18, all stating that this is a young person's hobby and how dare I even suggest this. To me, it's simply an issue of who's causing the most problems and giving the media the ammo to write inflammatory articles like this. I've never read such an article that mentioned anyone above the age of 18 doing such things. I'm sure it happens, but it sounds like the norm is for people under the age of 18 to be doing irresponsible things with airsoft guns. Clearly, a permissive culture within our society coupled with disposable income in the hands of minors in numbers for the first time in US history to this level, coupled with inexpensive airsoft guns, has been a large factor in this issue.
But let me ask you all this, who's really hurting our hobby and what actions, if not this, should we take?


The last major one I heard about around here had adults...

I don't think we should have an age limit. Just because we have some kids that mess it up, doesn't show the majority of kids are like this.

It's really not the norm fo someone under 18 to do irresponsible things, hell around here, the majority of the airsoft population were adults.

Those 1 in a 1000 kids are screwing us. We can't do much about it. It's like violent video games. One person is messed up, plays a violent video game, obviously have mental disorders and then the parents blame video game!

Or driving! One kid, drinks and drives. Insurance rates for teens are OFF the ROOF.

You shouldn't limit something for 1 out of helluva lot of kids are there..

Even adult supervision is harsh, how are kids going to really be able to play if their parents don't want to? What happens if there are no adults playing at the field? So many liability issues with that.
IPB Image

#6 Ophites

Ophites

Posted 20 December 2006 - 10:40 PM

Well, I do agree that minors should be supervised by adults, while playing any sport. You never know what could happen. However, Iv'e seen Adults do some pretty stupid stuff, especially when they have a few under their belt. I just don't think it's fair to restrict something pretty safe, with the proper safety precautions of course, to minors, just because there are a few crazy kids out there. I am not saying I comepletly disagree with you, but I don't think they should ban it.
Kwc P226 | DE M4 | Crossman Holster |
Pwn of the day | Ophites, three time consecutive winner of Pwn of the day

#7 Guest_burgermiester300_*

Guest_burgermiester300_*

Posted 20 December 2006 - 10:41 PM

I'm under 18, I say any idiot stupid enough to point the thing at a cop deserves to get shot anyway.

#8 Jake35

Jake35

Posted 20 December 2006 - 10:44 PM

QUOTE (burgermiester300 @ Dec 20 2006, 10:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm under 18, I say any idiot stupid enough to point the thing at a cop deserves to get shot anyway.


That’s a little harsh. But I do think that you would have to be very dumb to point/shoot an airsoft gun at a cop.

Shouldn’t it be an age minimum?
QUOTE(rhodekill_96 @ Jan 4 2007, 07:34 PM) View Post

Rank isn't important. Having 80,000 posts can't cushion stupidity, or make a reputation out of thin air.
"I second that @ss-less chaps are never a wise choice for airsoft battles, however it does add a little spice to the gameplay." Quotation from: coolduderyan07
"I wonder if any zombies are vegans, they turn plants and trees undead by eating them lol." Quotation from: JerryAgent You got a zombie problem ma'am?<(^_^)>
IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SNIPER AND SNIPER RIFLE, PUT THIS IN YOUR SIG!
IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MAG AND A CLIP, PUT THIS IN YOUR SIG!

#9 Guest_burgermiester300_*

Guest_burgermiester300_*

Posted 20 December 2006 - 10:47 PM

Im not really serious, but I agree with xhado, parents need to be educated better.

#10 bite the cookie!

bite the cookie!
  • Interests:AIRSOFT, XBOX live, Football, baseball, improvisation.

Posted 20 December 2006 - 10:50 PM

I'm 14, but a lot of my friends are about 17-18, and they 4get that I'm not their age sometimes. My point is that I think Airsoft is completely a matter of maturity level. Problem is, airsoft retailers cant sell to people based on maturity cause there's no way to know if someone is mature or not. I really just think that people who are mature get permission from their parents, and those who aren't mature will probably get busted for having guns without their parents knowing. I thinks its alright for someone who's immature to get an airsoft gun with parental supervision. But hey, thats just my opinion.

#11 Guest_burgermiester300_*

Guest_burgermiester300_*

Posted 20 December 2006 - 10:52 PM

QUOTE (bite the cookie! @ Dec 20 2006, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm 14, but a lot of my friends are about 17-18, and they 4get that I'm not their age sometimes. My point is that I think Airsoft is completely a matter of maturity level. Problem is, airsoft retailers cant sell to people based on maturity cause there's no way to know if someone is mature or not. I really just think that people who are mature get permission from their parents, and those who aren't mature will probably get busted for having guns without their parents knowing. I thinks its alright for someone who's immature to get an airsoft gun with parental supervision. But hey, thats just my opinion.


yeah, it could be based on maturity, but you can't really enforce something like that. lots of parents don't care what their kids do, mature or not.

#12 WeeGee

WeeGee
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester NY

Posted 21 December 2006 - 02:05 AM

P51, I know exactly what you are talking about in terms of newsrooms. I spend 4.5 year in school to be a photojournalist. One of my professors was straight out of the 1960's and if I had a good photo of me kitted out, I'd be tempted to send it too her just to see what the reaction would be. On the other side of the coin, the guys running the facilities side of the photo school, whom I worked for are overwhelmingly ex-military guys. In terms of building my character and personal moral code I probably learned just as much from those guys as I did my parents.

Anyway, on the topic: (And, these are in no particular order.)
1) I think a lot of this has to do with the underground nature of airsoft itself. If there were more commercial playing areas I think we'd see less of the "backyard" stuff.
1a) The underground nature of airsoft also means that unless someone is seriously looking they are not likely to find good, unbiased information with which they can make an informed decision.
2) Parents need to learn how to say, "No."
2a) Children (And that's all of you who can't vote or legally have sex yet. I don't care if your birthday is tomorrow, until it happens you're a child.) need to learn that you can't always get what you want. I think every toy store should be required to play that song as part of their holiday mix.
3) Maturity doesn't mean much. I know plenty of kids who are mature on the field but are children in the rest of their lives. I'm very thankful that their parent recognize that fact and only let them have their guns on the field.
4) The marketing of airsoft guns needs to be seriously overhauled. Get rid of the clear ones, get rid of the toy-like image stores try to project. Make them as threatening as possible without crossing over into, "This will kill you," territory. Maybe have a huge warning label like they do on cigarettes. (Not that those stop anybody.)
5) Instead of simple ID checks, make dealers read a waiver which includes the words "Injury," "Blindness," and "Death," over and over to anyone of any age purchasing an airsoft gun. Let people know what they're getting.

I'm not for scaring people away. I just want to weed out the kids and their parents who think that this is just the next step up from NERF guns.

Going back off the topic, the reasons I have not pursued a career in journalism are: (And do NOT reply to this in the thread. Take it to PM's.)
I can't stand sensationalized stories that do absolutely nothing for the audience. I don't care about Miss USA beyond my desire to father children with her.
I did not want photography to become a grind. I knew after photo school that if I did it every day I would no longer enjoy doing it, which would defeat the point.
I do not like losing control of my own work. Editors and publishers, not reporters decide what goes on TV and in print. Most of the time, their decisions stink.
I started pursuing journalism with the romantic ideal of, "Changing the world for the better." The real world eats romantics for breakfast then calls the waiter over to get it a Bloody Mary.
Bad grammar makes me [sic].
Never seek out malevolence as an explanation, when incompetence is far more likely.

#13 Jake35

Jake35

Posted 21 December 2006 - 05:00 PM

airsoft would not survive just look at this
http://www.airsoftfo...h...de=show&st=

if most of the people who play airsoft can't anymore the buisnes who sell airsoft guns will stop carryng them because they would not make enough money a-crazy.gif
QUOTE(rhodekill_96 @ Jan 4 2007, 07:34 PM) View Post

Rank isn't important. Having 80,000 posts can't cushion stupidity, or make a reputation out of thin air.
"I second that @ss-less chaps are never a wise choice for airsoft battles, however it does add a little spice to the gameplay." Quotation from: coolduderyan07
"I wonder if any zombies are vegans, they turn plants and trees undead by eating them lol." Quotation from: JerryAgent You got a zombie problem ma'am?<(^_^)>
IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SNIPER AND SNIPER RIFLE, PUT THIS IN YOUR SIG!
IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MAG AND A CLIP, PUT THIS IN YOUR SIG!

#14 44_Magnum

44_Magnum
  • Location:Raleigh, NC
  • Interests:Cycling

Posted 21 December 2006 - 05:50 PM

Although the thread starter has a point, I think airsoft would die without little idiots running around. Half of the little idiots get into to airsoft and start the new generation of AS. Although I'm not 18, I like to think that I can handle an AS gun, but I never know what I could be doing wrong. I think the legal age to own an airsoft gun should be 14, when kids get smarter, and even though I'm younger then that.... well. But, just age limit won't stop stupid 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20+ kids from screwing up too.
PM me if you think I am the greatest thing to bless this planet.

#15 WeeGee

WeeGee
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester NY

Posted 22 December 2006 - 03:10 AM

QUOTE (Jake35 @ Dec 21 2006, 10:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
airsoft would not survive just look at this
http://www.airsoftfo...h...de=show&st=

if most of the people who play airsoft can't anymore the buisnes who sell airsoft guns will stop carryng them because they would not make enough money a-crazy.gif


Polls are an extremely accurate sampling of the people who answered the question.
I'm willing to bet that a lot of adults who play don't come to places like this because after a week, they're read the stickies, used the search function, gotten what information they were looking for and developed a healthy dislike for children asking, "Wut am best gunzorz??"

Decent airsoft shops would stay in business. Y'know why? Because adults have discretionary income. Children, while they have no real living expenses (I hope you're giving your parents something nice for the holidays.) also have less money coming in. Allowances are a privilege, jobs- while they may pay you decent wages, (most likely not) will restrict your hours because of school and labor laws. I, as an adult have no such restrictions. (Especially because I'm single.) I have on several occasions made significant impulse buys secure in the knowledge that with my bills for the month paid, I don't have anything to stop me other than the nice shiny thing I will want to buy next time I walk into the shop. Contrast me walking into a store, pointing to an AEG and saying, "That one," to a 13 year old looking longingly at a springer he might be able to afford next month.

Airsoft was not originated with kids in mind, it will not disappear if the kids can't play anymore. There will simply be less people to shoot at.

Let's see how many kids can actually prove their maturity with reasoned argument, shall we?

Edited by WeeGee, 22 December 2006 - 03:13 AM.

Bad grammar makes me [sic].
Never seek out malevolence as an explanation, when incompetence is far more likely.

#16 TEN36VX

TEN36VX
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Placerville, CA
  • Interests:Rock climbing, four wheelin', and of course airsoft.

Posted 22 December 2006 - 05:35 AM

California, for all of it's short comings, pretty much already does what you speak of, P51. It is in effect illegal to own a BB gun as a minor in this state:
PC§ 12551 - Selling BB Gun to Minor. Every person who sells to a minor any BB device is guilty of a misdemeanor.
PC§ 12552 - Furnishing BB Gun to Minor. (a) Every person who furnishes any BB device to any minor, without the express or implied permission of the parent or legal guardian of the minor, is guilty of a misdemeanor.
Most, if not all counties in the state have ordinances prohibiting the use of BB guns by minor's without parental supervision. [Airsoft is classed as a BB gun per PC§ 12001(g)]

Additionally, warning buyers of the dangers has also been taken care of:
PC§ 12554 - Imitation Firearm, Conspicuous Advisory.
(a) Any imitation firearm manufactured after July 1, 2005, shall, at the time of offer for sale in this state, be accompanied by a conspicuous advisory in writing as part of the packaging, but not necessarily affixed to the imitation firearm, to the effect that the product may be mistaken for a firearm by law enforcement officers or others, that altering the coloration or markings required by state or federal law or regulations so as to make the product look more like a firearm is dangerous, and may be a crime [it is a crime under PC§ 12553], and that brandishing or displaying the product in public may cause confusion and may be a crime[it is a crime under PC§ 12556].
(b) Any manufacturer, importer, or distributor that fails to comply with this advisory for any imitation firearm manufactured after July 1, 2005, shall be liable for a civil fine for each action brought by a city attorney or district attorney of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000) for the first action, five thousand dollars ($5,000) for the second action, and ten thousand dollars ($10,000) for the third action and each subsequent action. [if your local shop isn't in compliance you might want to point it out to them]

And don't worry, it isnt just kids that can screw up the sport for the rest of us... NEWS

QUOTE (bite the cookie! @ Dec 20 2006, 11:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My point is that I think Airsoft is completely a matter of maturity level. Problem is, airsoft retailers cant sell to people based on maturity cause there's no way to know if someone is mature or not.
Well put.

Edited by TEN36VX, 22 December 2006 - 05:39 AM.

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#17 Guest_Xhado_*

Guest_Xhado_*

Posted 22 December 2006 - 05:57 AM

Most every state has the same laws, but thats on purchase, not use.

#18 savoy6

savoy6
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lithia Springs ,GA.
  • Interests:collecting WW2/Korean War/Indochina/Vietnam era gear and uniforms and ,of course,airsoft...

Posted 22 December 2006 - 08:18 AM

first off...lee...love your work.used to read all your informative posts on WW2reenactors forum..learned alot of paperwork stuff from them.good to see a voice of reason here...
weegee...lol....
QUOTE
I'm willing to bet that a lot of adults who play don't come to places like this because after a week, they're read the stickies, used the search function, gotten what information they were looking for and developed a healthy dislike for children asking, "Wut am best gunzorz??"

I wanna add this to my sig for all the 37 AS forums I'm a member on....lol..no truer words were spoken.

last year in florida,after several incidents of LEO's shooting underage folks with AS guns,the only reason that the sport wasn't banned was that the florida airsoft community was able to show that ,for the most part, those under 18 are not allowed to participate in the sport in everything from forums to actual games and events....at least ones that are run by reputable,recognized groups I.e. florida airsoft,mindgames ,etc.so the idea has a good amount of merit..with a middle ground of a lower limit for those who have parents participating alongside them...not sitting out in the car,or dropping off little johnny with a signed waiver then going shopping..but with them on the field..there have been serveral attempts both successful and not to hit the sport at the local ordinance level(I.e. NYC,dallas,etc.) , and thats where the fight will be.....
as per this..
QUOTE
I'm under 18, I say any idiot stupid enough to point the thing at a cop deserves to get shot anyway

thats all well and good except that your asking a LEO to have to deal with the fact that they killed a kid because he had an AS gun ...at best, that could be a life-long psycological issue and at worse lead to him/her second guessing in a situation with a real weapon and getting killed..


#19 44_Magnum

44_Magnum
  • Location:Raleigh, NC
  • Interests:Cycling

Posted 22 December 2006 - 01:26 PM

QUOTE (WeeGee @ Dec 22 2006, 03:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Polls are an extremely accurate sampling of the people who answered the question.
I'm willing to bet that a lot of adults who play don't come to places like this because after a week, they're read the stickies, used the search function, gotten what information they were looking for and developed a healthy dislike for children asking, "Wut am best gunzorz??"

Decent airsoft shops would stay in business. Y'know why? Because adults have discretionary income. Children, while they have no real living expenses (I hope you're giving your parents something nice for the holidays.) also have less money coming in. Allowances are a privilege, jobs- while they may pay you decent wages, (most likely not) will restrict your hours because of school and labor laws. I, as an adult have no such restrictions. (Especially because I'm single.) I have on several occasions made significant impulse buys secure in the knowledge that with my bills for the month paid, I don't have anything to stop me other than the nice shiny thing I will want to buy next time I walk into the shop. Contrast me walking into a store, pointing to an AEG and saying, "That one," to a 13 year old looking longingly at a springer he might be able to afford next month.

Airsoft was not originated with kids in mind, it will not disappear if the kids can't play anymore. There will simply be less people to shoot at.

Let's see how many kids can actually prove their maturity with reasoned argument, shall we?


.... There are a select (many) number of immature kids running around with airsoft guns. You're forgetting to look at those lucky kids who aren't idiots. I, personally am turning 13 in February. I have no idea if I'm mature or not; that's up to ASF to decide. It is plausible to say the kids who are 15/16/17 have a job by then. They can, thus, afford more then springers. I, on the other hand, do not have a job. This makes it more diffcult for me. But instead of resorting to to springers, I save my money. I know, it's insane. I mean, who would actually save there money? Anyway, I set up a year round service in my neighborhood. In the spring, I help plant flowers, and make about $20 a week (do to school). In the summer, I mow lawns and water plants and make about $40 a week. In the fall, I rake and blow leaves into bags and make about $15 a week (school). In the winter, I shovel snow (when there is snow, which is never). I also wash my parents cars. With all of this combined, I can make anywhere around $1,000 in a year. Right now, I have around $200 and plan on selling my old KWA G23F and buying a new KSC G19, puting a metal slide on, like my G23F, switching out my TB barrel, hammer spring and upgraded recoil rod and putting it into the G19. Alot of kids my age don't make this kind of commitment to airsoft, but.... I'm not alot of kids. And just remember, you can make a 21 year old ban on airsoft, and you'll still have idiots running around.

My two cents.

Edited by Whitegrass, 22 December 2006 - 01:27 PM.

PM me if you think I am the greatest thing to bless this planet.

#20 p51

p51
  • Location:Done with airsoft
  • Interests:No longer airsoft. I'm tired of it.

Posted 23 December 2006 - 05:50 PM

First off, I must say I'm impressed with the responses here. I fully expected to be dogpiled by the kids, saying I'm giving them undue grief. I fully agree that there are lots of very squared-away people under the age of 18. I see them all the time at events I attend, especially the great guys at the Battlesim events. These are the kind of guys that clearly back up the "You don't have to be over 18 to be squared away" idea! I have very little to worry about around those fine young people. But my point was always that if there is a specific demographic group that could be harming the hobby, there might need to be something to address that group. And from what I see here, that group would be divided by age. I'm glad nobody took my original idea personally and in the spirit it was intended. Clearly, nobody here so far falls under the mindset I was talking about.
QUOTE (savoy6 @ Dec 22 2006, 05:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
first off...lee...love your work.used to read all your informative posts on WW2reenactors forum..learned alot of paperwork stuff from them.good to see a voice of reason here...
Wow, I've never been called that before! ;) Thanks for the kind words, just wish someday someone gets together a good re-enactor forum that isn't a "good old boys club" where the mods break their own rules all the time. Check out how insane that forum has really gotten here!
QUOTE (Whitegrass @ Dec 22 2006, 10:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And just remember, you can make a 21 year old ban on airsoft, and you'll still have idiots running around.
Yeah, but how many adults are you hearing about getting in trouble with police and employers or schools for airsoft guns? Yes, I agree that it certainly must happen, but I have never seen a news story on anything like that happening to anyone over the age of 21. And if you do find one, for each story like it, I'm sure you could find ten about some boneheaded child running around with airsoft guns in public...
Done with airsoft.

#21 44_Magnum

44_Magnum
  • Location:Raleigh, NC
  • Interests:Cycling

Posted 23 December 2006 - 06:49 PM

Yes, it's true. I read something online every week about stupid kids. It's mostly that adults don't get caught. I've seen or heard about plenty of college srudents doing stupid things with AS guns.

Edited by Whitegrass, 23 December 2006 - 06:49 PM.

PM me if you think I am the greatest thing to bless this planet.

#22 shadow guard

shadow guard
  • Location:wisconsin
  • Interests:Umm...I am still in school, so no matter what i like that takes a lot of time. I also really enjoy football. I have played every year i can and work out int he wieght room as much as possible. But, like most kids I love video games (Socom 3 in particular) and msn. I also airsoft whenever I can, whether in my basement or in a real battling area. I know I'm not as experianced as some, I still have a lot of imput and I really want to learn a lot.

Posted 23 December 2006 - 08:16 PM

Well, I'm 14 and as much as I wish I could say some very particular words, I can't.....you got a point. I would still never say that their should be a ban, but you have a very strong argument. I just think that if it went through it would be ruining it for the rest of us. I mean if I couldn't play airsoft 'till I was 18, I would never. By then I would be to paintball or something else. That would carsh most buisnesses. And to respond to the "its only kids messing 'round with AS," thats because when people get older, they don't need airsoft to mess around. They can get drunk and drive around in the car. The only reason kids are getting caught is because adults have found other ways to get in trouble or screw off.

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#23 rhodekill_96

rhodekill_96
  • Location:Sacramento, CA
  • Interests:Airsoft... as logic would suggest...<br />Sabre Fencing<br />Harmonica<br />Arguing with morons on Youtube

Posted 23 December 2006 - 10:08 PM

I have an idea: airsoft tax. It'd be a .5-1% increase in sales tax in airsoft guns. If airsoft is banned, governments lose a fair amount of money.

#24 chickenzomby

chickenzomby
  • Location:...land nav needs work
  • Interests:Airsoft (obvious), martial arts, real-steel guns, video games, Competitive shooting, Outdoor activities (anything, really, but mostly backpacking), Swords, knives, Making swords and knives, making gear and guns, making anything. MARINE CORPS!

Posted 24 December 2006 - 12:34 AM

QUOTE (rhodekill_96 @ Dec 23 2006, 09:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have an idea: airsoft tax. It'd be a .5-1% increase in sales tax in airsoft guns. If airsoft is banned, governments lose a fair amount of money.

I don't think that is a good idea simply because people would think that because it is taxed, something about it must be bad.

QUOTE
biggest thing we need to do is educate parents as a whole that Airsoft guns are not toys. The easiest way to do that would have them be seen as firearms under the law, thus requiring those underage to have adult supervision. Legal repercussions should be larger as well, to keep idiots in check.

Yes, and that would not allow you to shoot another person, which, oddly enough, firearms kill people when you shoot them. And we never would be able to as firearms are classified as using an explosive reaction to propel a projectile at high speeds.


P51, I can see your logic and where it comes from, but I think that instead of pulling the weeds out, you are torching the flowerbed. I think that the best solution is to A) Prevent the sale of airsoft replicas in stores unless the express purpose of this store is to sell airsoft guns and accessories, this could also apply to places that sell PB stuff too, but legallies are not something that I get into. B) We need to get airsoft MAKERS in the USA, not retailors, and put on some good commercials for them, none of the Echo 1 stuff, that's just stupid, but some intelligent commercials where orange tips are used just for the publicity. C) We need to get major coverage by ESPN at a big OP, that would give all of the football guys a nice thing to watch on Sunday after football. Also an airsoft thing on regular, local programming.

^That's how I think that we can help the problem, as we will never solve it, much like the never ending problem of crime, you can never end it, but you can reduce it.

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#25 WeeGee

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  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester NY

Posted 24 December 2006 - 02:21 PM

QUOTE (rhodekill_96 @ Dec 24 2006, 03:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have an idea: airsoft tax. It'd be a .5-1% increase in sales tax in airsoft guns. If airsoft is banned, governments lose a fair amount of money.


I live in New York State, we've already got 8% sales tax.
Bad grammar makes me [sic].
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#26 rhodekill_96

rhodekill_96
  • Location:Sacramento, CA
  • Interests:Airsoft... as logic would suggest...<br />Sabre Fencing<br />Harmonica<br />Arguing with morons on Youtube

Posted 24 December 2006 - 10:17 PM

QUOTE (WeeGee @ Dec 24 2006, 02:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I live in New York State, we've already got 8% sales tax.

Ever consider moving to Oregon?

Besides, a 1% increase is $5 per $500. You'd hardly notice.

Edited by rhodekill_96, 24 December 2006 - 10:17 PM.


#27 p51

p51
  • Location:Done with airsoft
  • Interests:No longer airsoft. I'm tired of it.

Posted 26 December 2006 - 12:59 AM

I don't think that taxing the heck out of something is going to do anything either way. Look at smokes, the gov't takes a massive chunk out of tobacco sales, yet local governments have been banning smoking all over the country. Not that I smoke or have patience for thos who do, but yes, it kind of sticks the wrong way for me that mostly local governments are deciding what's best for you. Call me old-fashioned, but I kind of like the ideas of free will and personal responsibility...

I know this is going way off topic, but...
QUOTE (WeeGee @ Dec 24 2006, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I live in New York State, we've already got 8% sales tax.

Gotcha beat here in Washington by just a bit when you tack on the substantial local taxes and a gas tax that is one of the highest in the nation, and now they're talking about adding a state income tax on top of the sales tax we already have!
a-gross.gif

Edited by p51, 26 December 2006 - 01:00 AM.

Done with airsoft.

#28 44_Magnum

44_Magnum
  • Location:Raleigh, NC
  • Interests:Cycling

Posted 26 December 2006 - 01:12 AM

QUOTE (p51 @ Dec 26 2006, 12:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think that taxing the heck out of something is going to do anything either way. Look at smokes, the gov't takes a massive chunk out of tobacco sales, yet local governments have been banning smoking all over the country. Not that I smoke or have patience for thos who do, but yes, it kind of sticks the wrong way for me that mostly local governments are deciding what's best for you. Call me old-fashioned, but I kind of like the ideas of free will and personal responsibility...

I know this is going way off topic, but...

Gotcha beat here in Washington by just a bit when you tack on the substantial local taxes and a gas tax that is one of the highest in the nation, and now they're talking about adding a state income tax on top of the sales tax we already have!
a-gross.gif


That's what you get in the capital, where your right next to the old a-censored.gif yourselves. a-wink.gif
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#29 WeeGee

WeeGee
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester NY

Posted 26 December 2006 - 02:31 AM

QUOTE (Whitegrass @ Dec 26 2006, 06:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's what you get in the capital, where your right next to the old a-censored.gif yourselves. a-wink.gif


He's in Washington State. Not DC.
Bad grammar makes me [sic].
Never seek out malevolence as an explanation, when incompetence is far more likely.

#30 44_Magnum

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  • Location:Raleigh, NC
  • Interests:Cycling

Posted 27 December 2006 - 02:56 PM

QUOTE (WeeGee @ Dec 26 2006, 02:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He's in Washington State. Not DC.



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#31 WeeGee

WeeGee
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rochester NY

Posted 27 December 2006 - 10:12 PM

QUOTE (Whitegrass @ Dec 27 2006, 07:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Roar.


I seldom roar. Usually I howl like a wolf or laugh maniacally.

On the topic though, every time I come to this board I find at least ten topics or so that make me wish kids would just stick with NERF. But then I think about the kids I've taken the field with who even if they aren't squared away, are really trying. I do not, nor have I ever believed that a blanket ban on kids playing airsoft would be a good idea for the airsoft community. At the same time there is no workable way to ensure that only the "good eggs' get the guns.

Honestly unless airsoft becomes more visible so that the general public knows what is and is not legal and acceptable there's no solution. However, in it's current form airsoft can only exist as a somewhat underground hobby. I for one, like the current form just fine and don't want to see it change. Most of the people I tell about airsoft either shrug their shoulders not caring, or say, "That sounds like fun." That is because they picture me ( a 25 year old) playing it with other adults. I guarantee you those people would have a completely different (And most likely more negative) picture of airsoft were I ten years younger.

Most people see adults and guns (of any type) as perfectly fine, but see things very differently when kids are involved. I don't think there's really any way to counteract that.
Bad grammar makes me [sic].
Never seek out malevolence as an explanation, when incompetence is far more likely.

#32 afroninja

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  • Location:A lab on Planet X....
  • Interests:video games, airsoft, paintball,eating, sleeping....

Posted 28 December 2006 - 11:36 PM

I personally think that even though I am one, children are the main cause of a bad reputation for airsoft. I've only heard of an adult getting busted with an AS gun once. I think that a good reason that it is like that is because, adults, obviously have more money to spend, and the ability to drive where they want to go. So think about it,

Little Billy just got his first airsoft gun with all his toothfairy money. His friend Jimmy also got one. Instead of playing at a feild where they can play without being seen by the public, Billy and Jimmy play in their backyard and get lit up by cops. All this is happening while Hank Is toting his 15 pound SAW in a big woods op, where it is 100% legal to play. See where I am coming from?

#33 44_Magnum

44_Magnum
  • Location:Raleigh, NC
  • Interests:Cycling

Posted 29 December 2006 - 11:13 PM

QUOTE (afroninja @ Dec 28 2006, 11:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I personally think that even though I am one, children are the main cause of a bad reputation for airsoft. I've only heard of an adult getting busted with an AS gun once. I think that a good reason that it is like that is because, adults, obviously have more money to spend, and the ability to drive where they want to go. So think about it,

Little Billy just got his first airsoft gun with all his toothfairy money. His friend Jimmy also got one. Instead of playing at a feild where they can play without being seen by the public, Billy and Jimmy play in their backyard and get lit up by cops. All this is happening while Hank Is toting his 15 pound SAW in a big woods op, where it is 100% legal to play. See where I am coming from?


Represent. Completely true. The way you worded the Jimmy/Billy thing gave me a good chuckle.

But honestly, kids are only a part of the problem. Thing about airsoft is, wherever theres guns, there's idiots. Periods. (<--- Notice the S. That's plural.)
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#34 Garandmonkey

Garandmonkey
  • Location:Colorado
  • Interests:Football, Karate, Airsoft, and Martial Arts.

Posted 30 December 2006 - 03:18 PM

While I agree with most of what you are saying, I also have some disagreements. First of all, it is not just those who are under 18 that are causing problems. I'm not going to deny incidents where they have caused problems, but they are not the only ones. I know individuals under the age of 18 that are more responsible than a legal adult. While having either an age requirement or other certain specifications that need to be met by minors who play Airsoft may cut down on the problem, it will not eliminate the problem. Age doesn't always measure the maturity of a person, and while it can, it doesn't always tell you about a person's ability to handle Airsoft or issues regarding Airsoft in general.

Then there is the concept of where people play. Let's say some legal adults who are immature or uneducated are playing out in the open, while a group of other individuals who are under 18 that are playing and enjoying the sport/hobby of Airsoft in a safe mature way in a secluded area away from the public area. In this example, who is right and who is wrong? Who is making a smart educated decision and who is making a bad choice?

That is why I don't agree with the concept of having an age limit/requirement 100%.

#35 Electric_Sheep

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  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Huntsville, Alabama
  • Interests:Airsoft, Computers, Gaming, Cars

Posted 30 December 2006 - 04:21 PM

Im sure this has been said, but im not gonna read 30 post... anyway. Age limit on Airsoft replica weapons and gear has no effect. A parent, could buy there child an airsoft replica, and he could still bring it to school. But, the people that do stupid things like this are 1/1000. The rule that stats "No fake/replica/plastic/airsoft/paintball etc etc. firearm type weapons are allowed in school" should be stated upfront in the rule books. For example, is it not like getting a new gameboy or computer? whats the first thing you want to do? Show it off to your friends? and just the fact that "Boys and men" alike are more fascinated with guns and the millitary, adds to the fact that little johnny things he is so cool because he has a realistic looking glock handgun just like "daddies" real one. So whats he going to do? 90% of the time, tell people he has a pistol, or bring it to his friends house/school/the mall, wherever, to show it to his friends. What we should do instead, is take more time to educate and explain why its bad to take these replica weapons of any sport or kind into public.
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#36 p51

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  • Location:Done with airsoft
  • Interests:No longer airsoft. I'm tired of it.

Posted 30 December 2006 - 08:38 PM

QUOTE (Garandmonkey @ Dec 30 2006, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Then there is the concept of where people play. Let's say some legal adults who are immature or uneducated are playing out in the open, while a group of other individuals who are under 18 that are playing and enjoying the sport/hobby of Airsoft in a safe mature way in a secluded area away from the public area. In this example, who is right and who is wrong? Who is making a smart educated decision and who is making a bad choice?

I get your point, but when is the last time you've heard of a bunch of adults running around with airsoft guns across people's back yards? I'll concede that it must have happened somewhere by now, but I've never heard of it. Yet, I've heard of lots of times where kids have done just that...
QUOTE (Electric_Sheep @ Dec 30 2006, 01:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But, the people that do stupid things like this are 1/1000. The rule that stats "No fake/replica/plastic/airsoft/paintball etc etc. firearm type weapons are allowed in school" should be stated upfront in the rule books.
You're kidding me, the rule books for school don't tell people stuff like this? Man, I graduated high school in 1987 and the rules books said that even back then! We were clearly advised not to bring any guns or replica/toy guns to school, and airsoft wasn't even a factor in this country way back then! Of course that being said, it was a different world then in school. Nobody had cell phones and few kids had computers then. I've been told that schools can't tell kids to turn off the phones now days, nor can they confiscate radios from them like they did back in my day.
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Done with airsoft.

#37 Garandmonkey

Garandmonkey
  • Location:Colorado
  • Interests:Football, Karate, Airsoft, and Martial Arts.

Posted 02 January 2007 - 08:29 AM

[quote name='p51' date='Dec 30 2006, 06:38 PM' post='17214253']
"I get your point, but when is the last time you've heard of a bunch of adults running around with airsoft guns across people's back yards? I'll concede that it must have happened somewhere by now, but I've never heard of it. Yet, I've heard of lots of times where kids have done just that..."

I understand what you are saying and I'm not going to disagree about how more kids would or have played out in the open public area. However, it is not just the kids that are doing this, and that's all I'm trying to say. I do agree that kids are more likely to play out in the public eye and that the majority of them aren't as responsible the gross adult population, but that doesn't include everyone.

Edited by Garandmonkey, 02 January 2007 - 08:30 AM.


#38 Better Bent Than Broken

Better Bent Than Broken
  • Location:California
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Posted 02 January 2007 - 10:30 AM

If the government were to make an age limit for airsoft guns, then they would be taking away fun from many responsible minors. It's not the government's job to do things like that anyways. The job of the government is to protect the peoples' rights, and they are slowly taking those rights away from us. I think we should have a revolution. a-grin.gif

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#39 joker8baller

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  • Location:Bay Area, California
  • Interests:Golf, Airsoft, Gaming.

Posted 02 January 2007 - 12:20 PM

QUOTE (p51 @ Dec 30 2006, 08:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I get your point, but when is the last time you've heard of a bunch of adults running around with airsoft guns across people's back yards? I'll concede that it must have happened somewhere by now, but I've never heard of it. Yet, I've heard of lots of times where kids have done just that...
You're kidding me, the rule books for school don't tell people stuff like this? Man, I graduated high school in 1987 and the rules books said that even back then! We were clearly advised not to bring any guns or replica/toy guns to school, and airsoft wasn't even a factor in this country way back then! Of course that being said, it was a different world then in school. Nobody had cell phones and few kids had computers then. I've been told that schools can't tell kids to turn off the phones now days, nor can they confiscate radios from them like they did back in my day.
Don't laugh, guys, you'll be an old fart yourself someday! a-gross.gif

lol, all the parents I know who I talk about going to a field.... say, come on over we'll play in the front yard... The last major one I heard was adults...

Schools can consfiscate, hell we can't even have ipods at school.... It's so lame. Dumb as hell rules ><
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#40 Bullfrog

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 02:15 PM

The problem that airsoft has with young people owning and playing with airsoft replicas is one that I have been agonizing over since getting into the sport this past summer.

The issues that young airsofters have are similiar to kids who want to play certain sports that require special equipment and special facilities, like hockey, or football, or even baseball. Fortunately for someone who wants to play baseball there is little league baseball supervised and organized by adults to make it possible. Same thing for any of the major, accepted sports. All of which are more physically dangerous than airsoft.

The point is, there is a strong adult backing of certain sports to teach and train young people how to play and play safely in these various sports. Of course some of these sports are played by the kids to some degree on neighborhood streets but hopefully the safety lessons from organized sessions are being followed.

Eventually it is going to come to the point where youth airsoft will need to be organized like the other sports in order for it to survive in a positive way.
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