Jump to content

to add your 300x250 banner, pay ad zone 5
Airsoft Atlanta is your source for quality airsoft guns and rifle parts
to add your Text Link here, pay ad zone 3

AirsoftAtlanta.com AirsoftNMore.com Airsplat.com AirsoftRC.com
Vote for us to add your 180x30 banner here, pay ad zone 2

If you appreciate this website, please ASF Donation or Check Out the ASF Store. If you can not help us financially,
then at least help us by telling a friend: Share us on your favorite social networking website Bookmark and Share


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Feedback


Posts posted by 40oz

  1. pneumatic pump airguns work that way. You pump the gun one to ten times before firing. It's a decent solution, especially as for airsoft, it probably wouldn't take more than one pump.


    I don't imagine cost would be much of an issue as Daisy sells similar guns for ~$50, and they shoot lead pellets at 800+ fps. The only "cost" issue would be swapping for a 6mm barrel.

  2. my advice.. don't get an airsoft gun scope. They break easily and are more about gimmicks like variable zoom (high power), illumination, silly reticles, and looking tacticool. If you want a cheap scope that will have good optical clarity and be rock solid get a 4x32 made by a real steel scope company like Bushnell, Tasco or BSA.


    Not all "real steel" scopes are all that sturdy. "Airgun rated" scopes (like almost all Leapers/UTG) are more durable than so-called "real steel" scopes. Airguns break scopes because the piston recoil is harsher and in a different direction than firearm recoil. Leapers/UTG is pretty respected by airgunners for solid scopes that work well.


    Illuminated reticles are nice because a black reticle dot gets lost in a shadowed woods environment. When aiming at a black or dark background you can turn the reticle on and off just to verify your aimpoint. Certainly not needed when shooting at paper targets. Well, not needed at all, but nice to have for evenings outdoors.


    And HUGE numbers of firearms owners are more about "tacticool" than function. Witness the number of AR-type guns sold in .223 and .308, and compare that to airsoft where you can actually USE your tactical gun without repercussion, either socially or legally.


    That said, I agree that a 4x32 is probably the best value.


    To the OP:

    What's your budget? A 4x32 will be light and inexpensive. A variable power scope can weigh a pound or more. A large objective lens like a 50mm will require tall scope rings to clear the barrel. Mildot reticles are nice for rangefinding when shooting at targets of varying distance.

  3. As others have said, you don't buy an accurate and reliable bolt-action airsoft gun. You make one.


    You start with the basic platform, whether it be a Remington 700 imitator as the VSR-10/Bar-10/M28, or a Type 96/L96/SD97.


    The cheaper the base gun, the more money you will have to spend to get it accurate and reliable. A BAR-10 is a common start because they are cheap and compatible, but unless you are upgrading everything at once you would be better off spending more money on a higher quality gun like the M28 or VSR-10.


    You are going to have to disassemble, clean, lube, adjust, and modify the gun to get it to shoot straight before you purchase any upgrades. Unless there is some reason your Super 9 won't take mods, you might as well start there. Take it apart and reassemble it if you haven't yet, making sure every screw is tight and the hop-up is shimmed to remove slop. Do all the free mods first such as barrel spacers, foaming the stock, etc. Then maybe a TM hop-up and barrel, or some other company's combo. A new hop-up bucking. Don't upgrade the spring until you are ready to upgrade the trigger mech. And at that point you will want to replace the piston, and then the cylinder while you are at it. At some point it might be worthwhile to find a nicer stock, maybe buy a used gun that needs work and swap parts around.


    But you are not going to be able to open a box and start nailing 150' headshots time after time using whatever BB's you have laying around no matter what gun you buy.


    And honestly, crappy ammo is a larger factor in airsoft inaccuracy than the smooth bore. Accuracy shot to shot is a function of consistency, and you need high quality ammo to get consistent shots. I like G&G .28's, but there are others - do a search. It's pointless to use crap BB's, especially when upgrading the gun.

  4. ok someone told me a 650mm 6.03 bore barrel will not perform as well as a 590mm 6.03 bore barrel. they say a barrel can be TOO long...

    is this possible? if so how and why does the 650 perform less accuratly then a 590. will the longer barrel lower my fps?


    There are two conflicting limits on barrel length. You would prefer the barrel to be long enough to ensure all the air in the cylinder is used accelerating the BB. On the other hand, you want the BB to leave the barrel as soon as possible so the vibrations/impacts/etc. of firing has little time to affect the flight path of the BB.


    On one hand, you want as long a barrel as needed to match the air air the piston displaced. This could be as long as 800mm for a sniper rifle cylinder.


    On the other hand, you want the BB to leave the barrel before the piston hits the cylinder head so your aim isn't thrown off by that impact.


    Ideally the BB leaves the barrel just before the piston hits the head. Too long a barrel and your aim is killed by the piston impact. Too short a barrel and your velocity is killed by the BB leaving the barrel before the piston has gone even halfway.


    If a 650mm TBB was less accurate than a 590mm, I'd say you need to use heavier BB's. That will slow the piston so it might not hit the end of the cylinder before the BB leaves the barrel.


    Or use a weaker spring. Same effect - a weaker spring won't shove the piston so fast, so the BB has a chance to leave the barrel before the whole gun is shocked with the piston-cylinder impact.


    The longer barrel will almost always result in a higher fps as the BB is being pushed longer. But without knowing the volume of air displaced by your current piston/cylinder combination, nobody can say if you'd see an fps increase.


    There is no "simply put..."


    But in general a longer TBB will give you higher fps for the same BB, and/or better accuracy over longer range with a heavier BB. Same energy coming from the piston, but less waste. Heavier BB is less affected by wind, so more accurate relevant to fps.



  5. The fort sounds good, but it obviously depends on the site whether they will allow you to use it.


    As far as airsoft during hunting season, where I live you have to wear blaze orange if you are in the woods, whether you are hunting or not. And if you are in the woods or a field in camoflage carrying a gun without a hunting license or orange hat and vest, you are going to get your gun confiscated and a huge fine. Has zero to do with considerate neighbors or colored tape. Has to do with hunting regulations. And common sense.



  6. Yes I looked up some basic spring manufacturers on the net. Without knowing where to start, such has starting spring rate, it would be a waist of money to buy random springs. Found some springs that are close to size but there spring rates where in the 30LB/in, this is were im lost. Im moding super cheap spring pistols that arnt worth sinking money into. Like a HFC m9 and a china made 1911. I was hopeing the kiddies in here could help me out with all there broken spring pistols. And just donate their springs to the cause!


    Most hardware stores have quite a collection of springs for a wide range of applications. I just measured the stock spring and looked at what they had for something close.


    Spring rates are determined by the gauge of wire and the number of coils in a given distance. So if you find a spring with the same diameter and number of coils per inch but thicker wire, it's a stronger spring.


    I've tried a few different hardware store springs in spring pistols, and you can add an incredible amount of power to a springer shot - the issue is keeping the gun from tearing itself apart.

  7. What'd you use to unscrew it without messing up the brass?


    I used the crappy tool in verisimilitude's post.


    The hard part is finding one. Harbor Freight stocks them in their stores, but the pins are too big and there is not enough clearance for the nozzle. And it is weak, sloppy, and just not a good tool at all. But you can make it work.


    Sears stocks better versions, as do a few other online retailers. They are called adjustable pin wrenches or adjustable "Face Spanner Wrench". You don't need an adjustable one if you can locate one with the right pin and spacing. Armstrongtool.com and Martintools.net distribute them, and you could probably email them to see if they have one the right size. The pin size is 1/8", and they are 5/8" apart. And you need 3/8" clearance between the pins for the nozzle.


    Any machine shop that works on hydraulics probably has a suitable tool, and could probably break the head loose for $10. Otherwise you could spend ~$30-70 and buy a decent one. The issue is finding one with the right size pins and enough clearance for the nozzle.


    I was able to grind the cheap Harbor Freight tool to fit with my dremel and a sandpaper wheel. It took less than an hour of grinding and testing to make it work. But be careful of the pins - you want them fatter at the ends so they don't want to slip out of the sockets, and you don't want the diameter too small.


    An alternative tool could be made. Say a piece of hardwood, like oak or maple (vs. 2x4 pine). Drill two holes for the 1/8" drill bits to fit into the cylinder head sockets. Drill a hole to clear the nozzle. Then you'd have something you could get a hold on. A piece of 2" flooring or small piece of plain trim board would probably work. You could also make it out of steel or aluminum if you prefer.

  8. Would it help to freeze the cylinder for a while and then put it in pot of boiling water to crack the Locktite?

    I've tried freezing it and then using the wrench and electrical tape but the tape won't stick to the piston head. Should I just use it without the tape?



    Yeah, probably. Although I think heating it will be sufficient.


    The reason I stuck it in the freezer is I thought shrinking the cylinder head would help. It wasn't as effective as I had hoped, but the head did eventually come loose.


    I didn't know there was locktite on the threads. Had I known, I would have just boiled it first.


    You should be able to let it cool down after boiling. The heat alone should do the job. But it might take a few boiling - freezing cycles before it comes easy enough to prevent damage to the parts.


    Electrical tape won't stick very well to anything really hot or really cold. So you probably are going to have to wait until it gets to room temps before working on it if you are using tape to grip the nozzle. The head is brass, which is a lot softer than any steel pliers, so you can easily damage it if you don't use something to protect it.

  9. The tool showed is what I used, and it is a total POS. The pins are too large and the metal bars with the pins have too much material to fit around the piston nozzle. I used a dremel to grind everything down to fit. Real PITA using that tool.


    And the piston head is sealed with Locktite. I ended up throwing the cylinder in the freezer, pulling it out and wrenching on it with no luck, tossing it back in the freezer, etc. three or four times before it finally broke loose.


    You could probably have more success putting the piston in a pot of boiling water for several minutes to loosen the Locktite.


    Or taking it to a hydraulic shop and asking them to break it loose for you. Make sure you tell them there is Locktite on the threads so they know.


    Once you get it free, the piston weights are held on by tiny Phillips screws that come off easily with the right screwdriver. I put teflon tape on the cylinder head seals to prevent the residual Locktite from sticking again, and to keep everything sealed.

  10. What were you unhappy with? Your ability to hit a target on demand 80 yards out? Or is the gun inconsistent even at 100 feet?


    And known good BB's. I like G&G, but I know there are other great brands. The difference between a "good" BB and a quality BB is actually significant. Using .28g G&G's I can put 5 shots inside a quarter at 30', but none of the other cheaper BB's I have laying around, including .25g Cybergun "Special Selection", are capable of that kind of accuracy at even 15 feet.


    I'm not saying P-Force are bad, I'm saying try another kind, like the Bioshots or G&G, and see if that helps.

  11. I'm sorry I do not know it all, but I was under the assumption trigger mechanisms are different from sears. I know both the z and m trigger are 90 degrees. I was unsure if the m trigger came with sears or not. I do not see where I supported 45 degree sears though.



    Never mind. I don't know what I was responding to :a-confused:

  12. Won't need sears if you go with a zero trigger, or a piston.

    Not sure if the m trigger has sears with it, think it does, but it doesn't come with a piston.


    The point is that with a heavy spring you need a 90* sear or you will just wear your stock sear to a nub. And need a new sear set as the increased wear on all trigger components wears down the pot metal. A 90* sear requires a new trigger mech.


    And the M-trigger is specifically a 90* trigger mech. For a reason.


    The VSR Zero Trigger comes with a piston for the 90* sear.


    V-triggers come with a piston end for the 90* sear.


    You do the math. I'm not saying you need a 90* sear for every spring but you can't change your 45* sears to 90*, and if you are upgrading trigger mechs, you go 90*.

  13. Alright, so I'm thinking the Pro Vsr-10 with some massive upgrades.

    - PDI 6.03 TBB

    - EdGI SP01 spring... Read about it in Noobies review of M-trig... ORRR Laylax sp 170/190... Still deciding...

    - M Trig or Zero trig

    - Firefly or nineball bucking...

    - I'm stuck on anything else.... I know I need a cylinder, A spring guide, sears, and some other stuff. Any more suggestions? Anything I have that is unnecessary? I've been trying to read up, but some of these parts don't say how they perform unless you use all the same parts ( like all laylax, or all PDI). Once again, thanks for all your input...



    Just buy it and worry about what upgrades you "need" later. FPS is a waste if you can't hit the target.


    If you upgrade the spring you will want a 90* sear trigger mech and a matching cylinder head. Eventually if not immediately.


    If you aftermarket the hopup chamber to an AEG-style you will need a new AEG barrel to match, regardless of internal diameter.


    If you buy the VSR, understand that it comes with what many consider the best bucking and hopup chamber already. That's one reason people buy them.


    You could just go all out and buy every upgrade possible, but if you do that there is no reason to start with a TM. If you are replacing the cylinder and piston anyway, go with a SG R700, as it is a clone of the Real Shock (Pro Sniper with weights on the piston to throw off your aim realistically :) ). Same tapered outer barrel and longer inner barrel.


    The main reason people upgrade their rifle is for consistent accuracy and range. People upgrade clones is because they don't have either. The reason to buy a TM is to get both without upgrades. That said, taking apart, cleaning, and reassembling your rifle greatly improves accuracy, and there are plenty of "free mod" threads to improve both range and consistency.


  14. Well, does it work? Is it easy to see whee you hit, compared to a paper target?


    Something like a pie tin works because you can hear your hit, and see it later when you walk out there. Does your cloth target perform the same function?

  15. sorry for the off topic but I just want to clear some things.


    its not that we cannot afford to buy a TM. we just don't see the need to do so. Bar10 users like me just don't see the logic in buying an expensive base rifle like a TM if you can get the same sh*t from a clone. why would I buy an expensive base rifle if ill be upgrading/replacing its whole innards eventually anyway? after a TM is fully upgraded, the only "TM" that will be left in there is probably just the hopup and its stock and outer barrel. I don't think those 3 parts are worth the extra dollars.


    it really ticks me off when somebody would immediately say that the "original" is better than the clone without even having personal experience from using a clone.


    at the end of the day, when all is said and done, what matters most is getting the job done. be it by using an "original" or a clone...


    I think you understood what I was saying but argued as if I didn't understand your position.


    If a person isn't planning on upgrading and has the budget, why buy a clone? You said yourself "why buy the original if I'm going to be upgrading?" I just said it the other way - buy the original unless you KNOW you are going to be upgrading. Does that make sense?


    The difference is a hundred bucks. You can make that back selling your stock TM/CA to someone with a BAR-10 wanting a new stock, outer barrel, and TM hop-up. When you decide you don't like the role.


    I own a clone because I didn't want to spend real steel money on a "toy gun." It's not so much I didn't have the money for a TM or CA, it's that I couldn't condone spending the money. I know I am not alone in that regard, and I said as much in my post.


    And obviously the original is better than the cheaper clone, otherwise the clone wouldn't be cheaper and you wouldn't buy with the intention of gutting it and rebuilding it before you even took delivery. How much is an upgraded stock? More than the price difference between a TM and clone. How much is a new outer barrel? More than the price difference. And you get the better TM hopup thrown in. The economics for clones are a hard sell if you care at all for the externals that you look at and hold in your hands every time you use the gun. Hard to argue they are non-relevant, IMHO, when they are how you interface with the weapon.


    It's not an argument. I was not trying to piss people off. I was trying to suggest that unless the OP had owned and upgraded a spring airsoft rifle before and knew what upgrades they wanted, a TM/CA was probably a better use of money than a BAR-10.

  16. CA or TM make the spring guns everyone copies. You have the budget, get a original. You'll save money at first by starting with good gear.


    The BAR-10 is for people who plan on gutting the gun on day 1 or cannot afford a TM/CA. The others are for the rest of the spectrum :) There is no shame in not being able to condone spending $200-250 on a toy gun. You can buy a pretty nice RS .22 for that. (You'll go to jail for shooting your friends with it - minor downside :) )


    There are numerous worthy guns besides TM and CA - don't get me wrong. The UTG L96 and M28 are two obvious choices, as are the Echo1 ASR, the SG R700, and numerous others. The list changes daily, it seems. And if you want to go gas, you have a few more choices in your budget.


    If you spend $600 on your gun before you are done, good for you. But only a fool would drop $600 on a rifle and parts before buying and shooting their stock gun. Much less before tearing apart and rebuilding their stock gun, clean, oiled, and tightened down. Far better to spend a few hundred bucks max and then shoot, research, and make rational choices. The whole process of buying, tuning, and upgrading is a learning process, not a checkbook.

  17. So then if rifled barrel and conical projectile work well in pellet guns would they atleast work half as effective in airsoft guns?


    No. Rifled barrels do nothing for round steel BB's. It's actually a detriment - the rifling causes the propelling gas to escape past the BB.


    The reason steel BB guns have more range and accuracy for a given distance compared to airsoft is projectile size, weight, and velocity. Velocities and weights that kill animals and can injure and maim humans. Projectile shape is a non-issue. Yes, lead pellets have better accuracy and range than steel BB's due to the rifled barrel imparting a stabilizing spin, but again we are talking about a projectile weight and velocity that is unsafe for airsoft. On the order of 1000+ fps for .5g 4.5mm pellets. That's over 23 joules! For reference, .2g at 450 fps is only 1.87 joules.


    In addition, the 4.5mm diameter means less drag, so more range and better accuracy at longer ranges.


    One could experiment with a rifled airsoft barrel and a rubber pellet shaped like lead examples. But all the shape engineering in the world won't change the fact you are shooting a light projectile at only 450 fps max.


    23 joules vs. less than 2 joules. That's the range and accuracy difference between pellet guns and airsoft.


    IMHO, work on the gun before worrying about ammo making any difference at all.


    An aspect of real-steel accuracy that can help has to do with the gun itself. "Floating" the barrel means mounting the action so that only the receiver touches the stock, so any flex in the foregrip has no affect on the bullet trajectory. "Bedding" refers to filling the stock with fiberglass epoxy so the receiver has solid and even support. "Pillar-bedding" means inserting aluminum cylinders in the mounting screw holes flush with the bedding so tightening the screws won't stress the receiver or distort the barrel. "Full bedding" means using the epoxy filler to provide support for the receiver and barrel the whole length of the foregrip. All of these things are an effort to improve consistency - prevent differences from shot to shot that might affect the bullet trajectory.


    IMHO, pillar-bedding an airsoft rifle is the way to go. I'm going to try this in the coming months. The stock on my SG R700 is serviceable, but while it's not flimsy it is simply two half-shells bonded together. Quality RS composite stocks typically have an inner aluminum frame for "bedding" purposes. I'm hoping Bondo or something will add a bit of structure and allow me to improve the mag-release.

  18. This is not relevant to the topic, but it is relevant to the topic creator..

    "Most people don't want to push themselves to failure, because then we won't look good, but then we never get better. You know they say that 'Amateurs train until they get it right, professionals train until they get it wrong', and that's what we're doing..." -Chris Costa


    Shouldn't it be, "Amateurs train until they get it right, professionals train until they don't get it wrong"?




    A "professional" doesn't stop when they get it right. They practice doing it right until their body can no longer do it right anymore.


    This is versus the "amateur" trying to do it right, and once they pull it off, they are done for the day, job done, mission accomplished.


    And it is a ridiculous over-simplification and generalization, of course.

  19. Why don't you buy the gun and *then* decide what upgrades it needs? Just saying...


    They are both decent guns. But if you are so convinced they need numerous upgrades before you'd even use them, why not buy something that doesn't need so many new parts?


    Once you get them shooting straight it doesn't matter what you started with. Neither are "non-upgradeable," it's just that being new and being a combination of parts, you can't just buy VSR parts or L96 parts and expect them to fit. On the other hand, unless you feel like just throwing parts and money at guns for the sake of it, they don't need a whole lot. As you already know, Echo1 has some upgrade parts already available.


    "Pro Sniper" spacers are designed to fit the TM VSR Pro Sniper, which has a tapered barrel. Unlike the M28. So no, you do not want the PolarStar Pro Sniper spacers if you go that route.


    I'm not sure why you think you would need a zero trigger just because you replaced the barrel. You don't need to upgrade the trigger mech unless you want to run a much stronger spring than stock. And the other reason people upgrade the trigger mech is to get a 90* sear, which the ASR already has.


    One main reason to buy the PDI hopup unit is so you have more barrel choices. The advantage of a stock-fit barrel is largely null considering the stock plastic hopup unit is not ideal on most rifles. IOW, just because you can buy it doesn't mean you should.

  20. This beauty right here sounds like it meets all your needs. I don't know who told you that zooming decreases accuracy. I guess it could look that way since the bb's look like they go off target more due to a closer image. That scope is illuminated, comes with rings and flip-up covers, and probably has a mil-dot reticule.


    The crosshairs do not necessarily indicate the point of impact at 10x when you zero for 3x and vice versa. Hence "zooming in" doesn't increase accuracy but rather can increase the degree to which your point of aim deviates from the "zero point" of the scope.


    Consider that you zero at 100 feet at 3x by adjusting the crosshairs a few clicks up and left. Then zoom in 10x to the same target. Unless the scope manufacturer designs the zoom mechanic to operate central to the crosshair X (don't know how to say it otherwise) you might well be turning what appeared to be a very slight difference between the aimpoint and center of grouping into half the length of a crosshair simply by magnifying the view. So now when you put the crosshair on the bullseye you are actually aiming way off to the bottom right.


    This can be marginally addressed by zeroing at max zoom. Then the difference between the crosshair X and center of group should get progressively smaller. But "should" and "does" are not necessarily the same thing.


    And mildots are only "mildots" at max zoom. You can still use them for hold-over, but you have to remember what mag you have the scope at and how many dots to hold-over for that mag for that range. And they no longer function as rangerfinder tools. On top of that, in order to accomodate the zoom function there are more pieces of glass between the objective and eyepiece. And the more pieces of glass between you and wha you are looking at the more you lose image clarity and image brightness. Which means it takes you longer to tell if that is somebody's back or a tree trunk in the shadow of that bush.


    Any zoom-type scope suffers from these issues.


    IOW, it is far more reliable/accurate for some people to just use a 4x scope :)


    And fixed-power scopes are far simpler, cheaper, and easier to make well. I'd have no problem trusting a $30 4x32 fixed power, but a >$100 3-9x40 is questionably cheap. As in probably not a "good deal" at the end of the day compared to the fixed power.


    Variable-power scopes do have their uses and fans, however. Leapers makes decent scopes and the one in Anachro12's link is an economical choice for airsoft if you want variable power. The 30mm tube in that zoom range gives you a better field of view than youd get with the standard 1" tube on most 3-9x40mm scopes. I'd still go with a fixed power 4x32, but for ~$30 each, you can always buy one now and try another kind later without breaking the bank.

  21. I'd suggest you buy the one you want, not just whatever they have in stock. There is a reason you made the choice you did. If you didn't care you wuldn't have made a conscious choice for a 6.03.


    I'm all for buying from your local shop. And it doesn't look like anyone in the US has a MB 6.03 650mm inner in stock except for possibly a PSG-1-only version. So you might want to ask your local shop to inquire with madbull about how long the wait will be, or perhaps source a 6.03 from another maker.

  • Create New...