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deerhunter02

Why Aren't There More Classics?

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ya, in your CO2 or HPA tank, there is a small regulator (connects to your tank then to your hose then into your gun) and you can turn a knob and go from 200fps to 700fps depending on the regulator.

 

 

from my understanding LRBs don't work well with AEGs because 1. they wouldnt fit in a standard hop up, and 2. you cant adjust the hop. So you have to run really heavy BBs or buy one with a lower hop rating. they are great, but they can be a pain because you cant adjust them.

 

 

Another option for Classics is to have a custom SCS hop up made.

 

and even though there arent many parts left and available if something breaks, I know at least 1 guy who custom builds parts for his classics.(he doesnt even own an AEG) Also BV internals are EXTREMELY relaible. With proper maintinence, there have been reports of over 100,000 rounds without any broken parts.

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ya, in your CO2 or HPA tank, there is a small regulator (connects to your tank then to your hose then into your gun) and you can turn a knob and go from 200fps to 700fps depending on the regulator.

 

 

from my understanding LRBs don't work well with AEGs because 1. they wouldnt fit in a standard hop up, and 2. you cant adjust the hop. So you have to run really heavy BBs or buy one with a lower hop rating. they are great, but they can be a pain because you cant adjust them.

 

*snip*

I meant if one devised a system which allowed an LRB to be installed in an AEG, removing the hop-up and all.

 

It's my understanding that they perform great without any need for an adjustment option.

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I meant if one devised a system which allowed an LRB to be installed in an AEG, removing the hop-up and all.

 

It's my understanding that they perform great without any need for an adjustment option.

 

 

they put a constant hop on the BB, so unless your at the right fps or using a heavier BB weigh, it will put to much spin on the BB and cause the to go strait up or too little and get no range. When everything is adjusted right, they are great with classics and AEGS.

 

I don see why they couldnt work great, but they are too hard to adjust right so no company has been willing to try to make one. Also there might be an air seal issue because of no bucking, but the right sized O-ring could fix that...

 

Other than that, I have no Idea why nobody uses them...

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The reason they aren't used is because they are extremely difficult to source, and they wouldn't work in an AEG without extensive modifications. It might be worth it, though.

 

Forgive me for asking what seems like a dumb question, but what makes a LRB better than a hop-up? The only thing I can see is that since the spin is applied throughout the full barrel, the resulting path might be more consistent.

 

What I don't understand are the >300' range people claim from LRBs. Using a similar amount of energy per shot as an average AEG, how can an LRB achieve such a long flat trajectory.

 

The way I see it is: As the BB leaves the barrel, it has a certain angular velocity and directional velocity. If the directional velocity is held constant, how can an LRB outrange an AEG with hop? too much hop and the BB curves up... Too little and it drops early. I don't think that the angular velocity of a BB coming out of an LRB is "more ideal" than that of a BB coming out of an AEG barrel, since most people can adjust hop properly.

 

In earnest, I really want an answer to this. Understand that I'm not trying to troll the classic owners or anything, but I just don't see it as possible.

 

Please enlighten me.

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I'm no expert, and I'm just throwing out ideas, but the constant spin might be more consistant than a rubber bucking and causing better groupings and consistancy. From what I understand, it that they are like the best hop up in the world(better than prommy and firefly buckings) and they also act like a TBB. I don't know what eactly makes them tic, but that they are just better...

 

 

Why don't we use them with AEGs? well, I figure classic barrels werent compatible with AEGs and there hop up buckings, and nobody wanted to design one that worked(all the classic companies that made them went out of buisiness too I think). all you would really need though is a bucking with no nub to keep the barrel from moving and to create an air seal.

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I'm no expert, and I'm just throwing out ideas, but the constant spin might be more consistent than a rubber bucking and causing better groupings and consistency. From what I understand, it that they are like the best hop up in the world(better than prommy and firefly buckings) and they also act like a TBB. I don't know what eactly makes them tic, but that they are just better...

 

But that's the thing. I'm not talking about consistency at all. I'm talking solely about range. An AEG with a tightbore and a great hop set just right won't get 300' of range with a reasonable muzzle velocity. Yet hoards of classic owners claim to be able to achieve >300' shots with relatively low muzzle velocities.

 

EDIT: Clarity, and removal of truly atrocious joke

Edited by xlizer

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Forgive me for asking what seems like a dumb question, but what makes a LRB better than a hop-up? The only thing I can see is that since the spin is applied throughout the full barrel, the resulting path might be more consistent.

 

What I don't understand are the >300' range people claim from LRBs. Using a similar amount of energy per shot as an average AEG, how can an LRB achieve such a long flat trajectory.

 

The way I see it is: As the BB leaves the barrel, it has a certain angular velocity and directional velocity. If the directional velocity is held constant, how can an LRB outrange an AEG with hop? too much hop and the BB curves up... Too little and it drops early. I don't think that the angular velocity of a BB coming out of an LRB is "more ideal" than that of a BB coming out of an AEG barrel, since most people can adjust hop properly.

 

In earnest, I really want an answer to this. Understand that I'm not trying to troll the classic owners or anything, but I just don't see it as possible.

 

Please enlighten me.

I really cannot tell you why, I don't completely understand the intricacies of the things. I would ask someone who knows, like WatZ.

 

I do know they produce magnificent range, however, go look up some YouTube videos on the subject.

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Well deerhunter it's like this, the companies that made most of the classics JAC&ASAHI went bankrupt after the advent of AEGs. And yes they did shoot with a higher FPS, but one of the major draw of them was the external gas rigs that made them bulky and not very easy to move with. There are still some classics out there but they demand a heavy price tag and parts are very hard to find. I hope this answers your question.

 

 

Localized recession and poor asset purchases caused the above companies to go down and give the fledging TM a chance to excel. they weren't the first with an electric gearbox, only the first to escape the economic downfalls.

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That does. But if the companies didn't go out of business wouldn't all snipers want one of them? Because of the higher FPS and since snipers don't move much it wouldn't be that much of a draw? A new company should start making the classic airsoft guns. I would get one. They just need a backpack type carrier so it woudl be more convenient.

 

Also one more thing do the classic airsoft guns shoot faster (shots per minute) than AEG's?

 

Thanks

 

Working on a NBB engine, drop in based, trigger pull similar to the TM mk23

 

Desirability. Yes and no, it all depends on the engine's design, such as a falling hammer or possible consistency.

 

And you don't need a backpack if you intend to use one with sniper rifles, use a Cold Shot.

 

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Eh, 300 feet? with something the size of a mini-UZI? Or is it even a Micro UZI? Look, while it is possible to have range and accuracy in somethign that small, I doubt they could hit 300 feet without a huge inner barrel and amazing hop-up. 300ft is like the max range on most sniper rifles, very difficult to get it to and above 300 feet accurately. Sorry, but I can't believe this unless I see it.

 

with a mini uzi? no,

 

Asahi M60 with a properly tuned Lrb? Yes.

 

A fellow by the name of thrasher posted up videos of his 300 foot shots. capable of man sized hits 5/10 of the time.

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If I'm not mistaken, LRBs are an additional accessory one must buy for their classic gun. Hard to come by now, since no one makes them any more.

 

If you know the right people, they can still be made, abet 70+ dollars each if you can supply a 10mm OD barrel, ala SunProject m40 aftermarket barrel or the Top Barrels.

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For more, better, and more accurate info, send WatZ a PM on Arnie's or ASB (I don't think he's on ASF, but he may very well be). He's practically the afficianado on classics, and owns about a billion dollars worth of airsoft merchandise, including *I think* three Sheriff Highlanders, only 25 of which were ever produced.

 

Watz may have one highlander,

 

DRK has another

 

and a fellow by the name of Spiggy owns a parts set in Fullerton, which happens to be the treasure chest of AS4L

 

 

 

 

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I don't have much experience with classics, but just out of curiosity...why haven't they used these LR Barrels in AEGs? If this claim about an uzi hitting 300 ft. is true, it would seem like a logical step forward by using this technology in place of an AEGs hopup.

 

If you try to find one of TM's eary AEG mp5's, not the new type designation they once had before, they did not have standard hop up and ANGS/Sherrif did make an LRB for it.

 

A fellow by the name of IronMonkey has one on his, very hard to find and he/as4l will have to fabricate a mount for it.

 

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This depends on which gun and what parts one uses. The air tank regulator can adjust the FPS of the weapon, works like a paintball gun.

 

 

Nope, since the Escort system is a contained system with provisions for that blockback, increasing the operating pressure is a bad idea if you want to crank out more FPS. Because actually firing a bb is a secondary action, with the blow back being the first operation, adding more pressure will put undue stress on the overall system. you can milk it for a few FPS< but not worth it.

 

How do you increase the FPS? Tightbore is one of the answers.

 

Continual gas expansion down the barrel will allow increase pressure behind the bb as it travels down the barrel. because the pressure is constantly changing vs the fixed amount of gas provided by a piston and cylinder (aeg) gas based airsoft pistols/rifles can benefit from a tigher bore or increased barrel length.

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Yet hoards of classic owners claim to be able to achieve >300' shots with relatively low muzzle velocities.

 

Not hoards,

 

Their just not enough of us to make the claim.

 

Classic fall on 2 ends of a spectrum like any other airsoft rifle.

 

Under careful planning and tuning, yes, many classic owners can get 300' shots. I know there is a fellow with an asahi sterling with a wicked LRB than can do 290' at 350 fps.

 

how the hell does a LRB work? After 6 years in classics, I am still often questioning if I understand the concept. the reason it works on BV guns is the fact that it needs the barrel to reciprocate and the O-ring that mates with the barrel to operate flawlessly.

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Not hoards,

 

Their just not enough of us to make the claim.

 

Classic fall on 2 ends of a spectrum like any other airsoft rifle.

 

Under careful planning and tuning, yes, many classic owners can get 300' shots. I know there is a fellow with an asahi sterling with a wicked LRB than can do 290' at 350 fps.

 

how the hell does a LRB work? After 6 years in classics, I am still often questioning if I understand the concept. the reason it works on BV guns is the fact that it needs the barrel to reciprocate and the O-ring that mates with the barrel to operate flawlessly.

 

True, I was using hyperbole there.

 

If those 300' shots with a well tuned classic are possible, then I maintain that an AEG with careful planning and tuning can also achieve the same range with the same muzzle velocity. Does anyone have a problem with this statement?

 

I just think of 300', the length of a football field, as an extremely long distance for an airsoft gun.

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MagnumBB, next time you read through a thread, and you see multiple posts you want to reply to but you have not reached the end of the thread, please utilize the "quote" button located on the bottom right of each post to make one large post, rather than eight in a row.

 

Localized recession and poor asset purchases caused the above companies to go down and give the fledging TM a chance to excel. they weren't the first with an electric gearbox, only the first to escape the economic downfalls.

Who was the first, then?

 

with a mini uzi? no,

 

Asahi M60 with a properly tuned Lrb? Yes.

 

A fellow by the name of thrasher posted up videos of his 300 foot shots. capable of man sized hits 5/10 of the time.

I am aware of it, I have seen said videos.

 

Watz may have one highlander,

 

DRK has another

 

and a fellow by the name of Spiggy owns a parts set in Fullerton, which happens to be the treasure chest of AS4L

I belive WatZ owns at least two, one DX model and one standard model. Either one is not working and he is fixing it, or he has a third which needs parts replaced, I don't remember exactly.

 

Xlizer, while I suppose it is possible, I believe the old BV system using an LRB has an advantage in this category over AEGs. Perhaps someone can provide some proper input here.

Edited by Lizzard

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Xlizer, while I suppose it is possible, I believe the old BV system using an LRB has an advantage in this category over AEGs. Perhaps someone can provide some proper input here.

 

May I ask why you hold this belief?

And I do also hope someone comes in here with some scientific explanation.

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Got an Email from EdGi today. They say they have considered producing LRBs, but they don't work as well on AEGs, and they require a lot of tuning. You cant just mass produce them. They need to made to a guns sqecific specs. Each gun would have its own barrel with unique grooves and cut. Also, the barrels move back and forth on classics and this some how makes an LRB preform better.

 

EdGi does make "Blank" barrels that you can have cut into an LRB

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I remember the Strafer. Havn't seen one in a while, looks kinda cool. Forgot it ran on an external gas rig, does it use a BV system as well?

 

I remember hearing about one event where after it was over, at night, they took a Strafer with a tracer unit and fired BBs into the air, sounded pretty sweet.

 

Why was the Strafer in an LE magazine?

 

The strafer..... god, one person on my team has one of those.....

Think he said it best "When I pull that trigger, for 10 seconds, I am INVINCIABLE"

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I would get one. They just need a backpack type carrier so it woudl be more convenient.

 

The date on this thread is back from 2008. Please don't necropost and bring back inactive threads.

Edited by The Death Merchant

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