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Brainplay

Constructing An Air Rig *56k Death*

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One of the biggest problems with gas rifles despite who makes them is the inconsistency of their FPS. This is due to the fact that construction methods only allow low pressure "propane" based gases to be used. These gases suffer from the same problem. PV=nRT also known as the "Ideal Gas Law". In laymen terms it means: when gas is removed from a tank the pressure inside is lowered as is the temperature. The pressure will not return to its original state until the temperature inside reaches its original temperature. So when firing a gas gun the pressure after each shot my vary causing BB's to have inconsistent ranges due to spikes or ebbs in pressure as well as different effects caused by a BB striking a hopup at speeds for which is was not originally tuned.

 

The Tanaka M700 accidently helped alleviate this problem with their original PCS adjustable bolt. Intended to help to adjust velocity, it incidently provided some gas regulation despite only really being a modified gas restriction nozzle. The KJW M700 which is a clone of the Tanaka simplified the bolt for cost purposes and left out this feature. This made the KJW model VERY susceptible to inconsistencies from the lack of regulation. Either way though both brands still suffer this affect when firing off quick shots in succession. The best solution currently available to fix this problem altogether is an externally regulated gas source.

 

The following will give step by step instructions on how to drill and tap a KJW/Tanka magazine, attach fittings, mount the rig, and adjustment while doing so CHEAPLY.

 

Drilling and Tapping

 

Tools Needed

 

1 Hand drill or drill press

2 blocks of wood *note: only needed if using a hand drill

1 C-clamp *note: only needed if using a hand drill

1 Phillips screwdriver

1 adjustable wrench

1 1/8 - 11/32 tap *note the tip starts at 11/32 and expands out to a full 1/8

1 11/32 drill metal drill bit *note NOT A 1/8 DRILL BIT

1 can of tapping oil or spray on silicone based oil (you can use airsoft gun lube just fine)

 

*optional:

-1 1/8 gas fixture *Since the metal is soft and will warp if repeated screwed/unscrewed I prefer to have a fixture which gives me more flexibility for future addons. If you screw an airhose directly into a magazine it will work fine but you might have other ideas for later. Fixtures can be found in any hardware store, are made of brass, and cost $1 or less. Its best to ask for SEAMLESS fixtures although most usually are already.

 

-teflon tape of loktite sealing adhesive

 

 

 

The first item of business is to disassemble the magazine. If you look at the back end where the striker plate is located you will notice 4 screws.

 

IMGP0270.jpg

 

 

 

Remove these screws and keep them in a safe place. You don't want to lose them. Next you will remove the backplate. The backplate is NOT glued to the magazine. Instead there is a rubber O-ring inside sealing it from the inside. It will take a bit of pressure to remove the backplate but there aren't any loose pieces that will just fall out (if there are when you pull yours out it might have been damaged). Check the 0-ring for any damage or just wear and tear. Below is a picture of what the backplate and arm look like. The little arm at the end should be sitting in an L position when you replace it. REMEMBER THAT!

 

IMGP0271.jpg

 

 

 

Now if you're using a hand drill and I imagine many of you are then you'll want to secure the magazine with the wooden blocks and C-clamp as shown in the picture below. The blocks have to be of the same size of course to ensure an even area. If you look at the picture closely you can see some small dents. These were pilot dents which are where I'll start drilling. Most people drill straight down the middle/center of the magazine but I decided to go a bit more towards the back where the backplate is located.

 

IMGP0272.jpg

 

 

 

 

This part was optional but its still good for those inexperienced in this type of work. From the pilot dents I started my "pilot hole". The pilot hole is basically a smaller hole that will be used as a guide for the larger main drill bit. This isn't necessary but it makes it much much easier to drill later. Since the pilot hole is smaller I can afford to expand it out a bit more if I screw up and drill at an angle in order to fix such a mistake. It also makes it easier to drill with the larger bit. As you can also see I'm cheating since I have access to a cheap drill press.

 

*The magazine is made of thick aluminum. This is a soft metal so you will want to drill slowly. Putting alot of weight and pressure while drilling leads to the bit becoming caught in the metal. This of course can make you loose control of a hand drill which can damage the drill bit. And while rare occurance a broken drill bit lodged in your magazine is not a good thing. Slow and easy may take longer but it keeps you from having accidents and it lets you keep that the angle is being drilled straight.

 

**Note: While the can looks similar that is NOT WD-40 being sprayed on the hole. WD-40 should be kept away from your rubber O-rings.

 

IMGP0273.jpg

 

Here is the actual hole being drilled using the 11/32 drill bit. The smaller pilot hole will keep it straight and make the drilling go alot faster since there is less metal to deal with. Once the hole is completely drilled you'll want to deburr the edges. This basically means removing any bits of metal or sharp edges around the entry and exit holes.

 

IMGP0274.jpg

 

 

 

 

Ok you've got your hole drilled. Now comes the truly important part of tapping the threads into the hole. The tapping doesn't necessarily have to be 100% straight to be functional. However, it will eliminate any future problems that may arise due to one side having shallower threads.

 

First take your tap and insert it into the hole. Line it up as best and you can and then with hand pressure alone try to twist the tap into the hole. This will lock it into place and you can really check the angle of the tap in the hole. Align as necessary. Once its aligned and you have once again used hand pressure to secure it in the hole its time to break out the wrench. Attach it to the top of the tap as seen in the picture below. While holding it steady give it one full rotation. Check your alignment. If its off a bit you can back the tap out of the hole and retry. Try to keep the retries to a minimum. A few won't hurt it really since you'll be really biting deep into it once you screw it in deeper. Its best to have a slightly slanted hole than a dozen tries which have chopped up the hole walls badly.

 

Start more rotations. Now that you've started to bite into the metal you can remove the small wrench and throw on something larger (I pulled out a medium sized monkey wrench) to help you rotation the tap easier. You'll need to rotate the tap all the way to the end of the thread blades.

 

*note: when cutting the threads its best to go forward a little bit then back up a hair. Puuuuuussh, back up. Rinse and repeat.

 

IMGP0278.jpg

 

Remove the tap by backing it out the way it came. Check the edges and deburr and necessary.

 

Congradulations, you have a tapped magazine. The rest is easy.

 

 

Adding a fixture is easy.

 

First clean the threads of both the tapped magazine and the fixture itself by simple brushing and blowing. Next is personal preference. You can wrap the threads in teflon tape or you can coat it in Loktite adhesive. The Loktite or similar products like teflon provide a seal around the threads to keep any gas/air from escaping. Loktite though makes it much more difficult to remove the fixture from its hole. This is beneficial since a sniper rifle can be dragged through all kinds of terrain which might catch, pull, or twist on air hose thereby weakening its seal. Teflon tape does a fine job and many people have used it without any incident. However, I'm paranoid and decided to take no chances so I went back and replaced the teflon with Loktite.

 

Since the threads taper into a smaller diameter it becomes harder to screw in the fixture. The tapering ensures that the fixture (or air hose) is fitted tightly and makes a better seal. It will require you to use a wrench as seen in the picture below. Unfortunately with soft metals like aluminum if you keep screwing an item in and out of a tapered hole the hole will stretch and become bigger. In other words try not to keep screwing things in and out.

 

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e262/bra...ay/IMGP0275.jpg

 

 

Below are pics of a completed fixture. Note in pic two how little actually protrudes inside the magazine. This should give you an idea of how thick is the magazine. Its also shallow enough that it won't affect the rocker arm nor spring which will be directly approve the hole.

 

IMGP0276.jpg

 

IMGP0277.jpg

 

 

Now its time to reassemble the magazine.

 

First make sure there are no little pieces of aluminum sitting inside. The last thing you want is a chuck of metal getting stuck in the rubber air seal causing a bad leak. Use a soft brush or a dry terry cloth (towel) to brush the inside. Use compressed air if possible. If you don't have any you can use a straw and lots of strong breath. Yes it will work as thats exactly what I did with this magazine.

 

Next using a Q-tip lightly coat the o-ring at the front of the magazine with a light coat of silicone oil. Light is the key word as lots of oil will end up getting spewed into your barrel and hopup bucking. Be sure to do with same thing with the larger O-ring on the backplate. This will increase its life and reduce future leaks.

 

Next you will insert the backplate. Remember that the the L shaped thing at the end should be set like an L when you insert the backplate. The very end will slip into a small slot at the front. You might have a few problems keeping the tip in the upright L position. Basic logic suggest that this is easiest accomplished by holding the magazine upside down. Its actually fairly easy to insert the entire thing back into place.

 

The L piece is basically an actuator. When the striker plate is struck it causes the plunger arm (shiny metal rod) to hit the top tip of the L forcing it downwards. The bottom tip which was in a slot at the front of the magazine pushes down on a gas seal allowing gas to exist the magazine.

 

*tip: Take some barge cement, liquid cement, or plumbers glue and add a thin layer around the edge of the backplate before completely closing. When screwed back in backplate will no have a better seal which eliminates any extra leakage. This will cure small leaks which are inherent with both KJW and Tanaka magazine but not catastrophic failures of the O-ring inside. If after all of this is done and you'e still getting leaks then your O-ring needs immediate replacing.

 

 

 

***Its about 3:30am right now and I'll finish the second part of this post later as well as edit for errors and grammer.

Edited by Brainplay

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Ok time to finish this guide. Thanks for the patience everyone.

 

Ok now you have a magazine with a big fat hole in it and a fitting. What do you do next? The next stage is much simpler and does not require anything more complicated than a wrench.

 

Parts list

 

1 1/2inch to 1/8inch Reducer (can be bought at a hardware shop) *$1.50

1 double sided 1/8inch threaded pipe, 1/2inch long (shorter may impede different tanks) *$0.50

1 Low Pressure Regulator of your choice *price varies

1 paintball coiled hose *$30

1 roll teflon tape or Quicktite/Loctite

 

 

Optional parts

 

1 Slide on/off valve (aka "slide check") *$10

1 1/8inch male and female quick disconnect set *$1.00

 

IMGP0290.jpg

Sorry, air hose pic not included.

 

 

 

 

 

Assembly

 

First thing we are going to do is disassemble the coiled air hose. You'll end up with a hose with two threaded 1/8inch ends on each side, 1 female tank cap (where your tank screws in), and whatever you had at the connecting side (probably a 1/2 male cap with 1/8inch threaded hole). We are going to rearrange these parts to suit our needs. If your female tank cap has an on/off knob on top like mine did (see blue knob) then go ahead and screw it all the way in. The knob is sealed so having it unscrewed isn't going to cause leaks. However, you don't want to hear rattling and you want everything that can catch on stuff to be as compact as possible.

 

Apply some teflon tape or Quicktite to the threads of your double sided 1/2inch long pipe. 3 or 4 tight wraps is sufficient for the teflon, but in the case of Quicktite don't go overboard and throw gobs of the stuff onto the threads. Screw one side into the female tank cap nice and snug. If you used Quicktite let it sit for about a minute or two in order to let the adhesive set. Next screw your Low Pressure Regulator into the other side until it is also nice and snug. Make sure the two pieces are aligned with each other. If you used teflon gently attempt to twist the two pieces. If you get some good resistance then you should have very little to worry about in the case of one side coming loose. As you can see in the picture below I used teflon tape.

 

IMGP0291.jpg

 

 

 

 

Now grab your 1/2inch to 1/8inch reducer and your coil hose. Using teflon or Quicktite attach your hose to the reducer. Simple! Your reducer will now attach to your regulator.

*note: you'll want to add some Quicktite or teflon to the threads of your Low Pressure Regulator. This isn't to seal against leaks. The O-ring at the regulator's neck will handle that. This is merely to keep the reducer and regulator from unscrewing due to jostling. Do NOT cover the O-ring at the neck with teflon or Quicktite.

 

IMGP0292.jpg

 

 

 

Congratulations! Your CO2/HPA air rig is complete. Now you just need to decide how you want to attach it to your magazine and adjust the pressure. You can screw the threaded end of the hose to the magazine fitting, screw straight into the magazine without a fitting, or attach the optional quick disconnect set for easy removal and storage.

 

Here is a picture of my recently completed air rig using a 12gr quick changer. I can swap that out for a full 20oz CO2 tank or a 48ci HPA tank with no problems. The 1/2inch long connector pipe provides plenty of clearance for larger tanks.

 

 

IMGP0293.jpg

 

 

 

Here is a picture of me adjusting the Low Pressure Regulator to the desired psi (going for 105-110'ish). I'm using a $10 gauge and fitting combo I picked up from Harbor Freight Tools.

 

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e262/bra...ay/IMGP0294.jpg

 

 

 

 

Here are a pair pictures of someone else's completed air rigs with a quick disconnect, slide check on/off, and a pressure gauge (the hose is resting on top of the gauge).

 

Airsoft022.jpg

Airsoft021.jpg

 

 

 

Extra notes

 

If you plan on carrying extra magazines instead of reloading a single mag, I would highly recommend installing a slide check. Even with the small amount of air lost you can fire 2 almost 3 complete mags on a single 12gr.

 

20 round Tanaka long mags are drilled and tapped on the same principle. However, due to their design you need to tap near the back edge instead of the middle.

 

As you can see the regulator is what makes up most of the cost for an air rig. While Palmers are great, they are long in the tooth as well is very expensive. Other reliable, more modern, and cheaper regulators have come out since the Pamers heyday when they cornered the low pressure Autococker heavy market.

 

Air rigs benefit both the KJW and Tanaka market. Since the removal of the PCS bolt from modern Tanakas, this is more important than ever before in taming the inconsistencies of these gas powered airsoft rifles.

Edited by Bodie

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What power source do you use? CO2, compressed air?

I need me one of these after I do this mod.

http://www.wevopaintball.com/3000psitanks.html

 

Either type of gas works fine. If you live in cold weather CO2 might be problematic since the cold temps lower the pressure in the tank but warms up in the hose after it has passed through the regulator. In ambient and warm temps this isn't so much of a problem but in snow or icy weather the pressure can drop as much as 100psi+ since the gas is reaching temps where it wants to convert back to liquid. Liquid CO2 trying to push past your regulator or just killing the O-rings also becomes a problem. Those weathers pretty much make HPA mandatory for cold. Hot and warm barely register since the gas is usually at its most gaseous phase.

 

Small tanks like those would be pretty good since they really are tiny and fairly lightweight. Ironically the smaller HPA tanks become more expensive the smaller they get. A 48ci tank can be as cheap as $50 with preset 800psi reg attached but they are the same size as a 20oz CO2 tank.

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Right on. Granted it is a bolt action, and rof is not a factor, problems could still exist.

I have been toying with putting a 6oz co2 tank or one of the small compressed air tanks in the stock if they fit. Otherwise, cut out the stock, slide it in there, take mesurements, and build a door out of appoxy, bondo, fiberglass, whatever, around it. Kind of like the door on the m16, m14, so be it, but much bigger.

It would kind of look like a crane stock.

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What power source do you use? CO2, compressed air?

I need me one of these after I do this mod.

http://www.wevopaintball.com/3000psitanks.html

 

So wait, those already have a gauge and are HPA tanks. If I buy one of those would I just need a coiled hose and do the mod above or do I need the regulator too?

 

I went on Ebay and typed in Paintball regulators because I saw the R-Drive stage II reg from Brainplay's other post but will any paintball reglator work with the reg, coiled air hose, C02 quick change adaptor, and tank? Link to thread I am talking about

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So wait, those already have a gauge and are HPA tanks. If I buy one of those would I just need a coiled hose and do the mod above or do I need the regulator too?

 

I went on Ebay and typed in Paintball regulators because I saw the R-Drive stage II reg from Brainplay's other post but will any paintball reglator work with the reg, coiled air hose, C02 quick change adaptor, and tank? Link to thread I am talking about

 

The regulator in the tank has an output of 800 PSI. You can add another regulator, to adjust that.

Compressed air regulators generally do not work with CO2. Palmers Stabilizers are great for CO2.

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The regulator in the tank has an output of 800 PSI. You can add another regulator, to adjust that.

Compressed air regulators generally do not work with CO2. Palmers Stabilizers are great for CO2.

Just to make it clear, because that has an output of 800psi, could I change the output to make it field legal for 500FPS with .20g without buying another reg? Or is it strictly a certain output so I DO have to buy another reg? Just a bit confused.

Edited by Airsofter329

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Just to make it clear, because that has an output of 800psi, could I change the output to make it field legal for 500FPS with .20g without buying another reg? Or is it strictly a certain output so I DO have to buy another reg? Just a bit confused.

 

 

Unfortunately, no you can't adjust the tank regulator. HPA tank regulators are heavy duty types which are usually non-adjustable and PRE-SET to a certain psi. This allows a secondary regulator be able to adjust to low pressures without the need for a beefy spring pack and be more precise. Techincally alot of paintball guns can handle 800psi just fine. Remember, these tank regulators are meant for regulating 4500psi into something more manageable.

 

The working psi you'll be working with is going to be between 90psi-150psi. The 150 mark is pretty high and if you're not careful you can end up shooting VERY hot.

 

You'll need to do some homework on each regulator that you are considering buying since some don't regulate as low as we want for airsoft. You'll be surprised that many do not go below 200psi. Also, many regulators will work fine with CO2 while some do not. Once again homework.

 

First its best to go straight to the manufacturer's website if available. If you can't find the info you need anywhere on the web then simply email them an information request. Most are quick to get back to you with an answer.

 

The following is a good starting place to check out some regulators. You'll need to weed through alot of paintball junk but there are many good bits of feedback there.

Regulator Reviews

 

There are a great number of regs out there to choose from. Here are a few things I've researched. This is not a holy grail and I recommend everyone does their own fact finding to be sure.

 

R-Drive II regulators go as low as 50psi

Hyperline II's are 50-450psi adjustable Hyperlines (version I) are 0-500 adjustable <--often found cheap on ebay

Palmers are well known already.

Some Hybrid models can be adjusted to 0psi

Custom Products Grip Regulator is a low pressure 0-500psi reg. Before purchase make sure that it is not upgraded to the heavy spring pack which works at 200-600psi.

Air America makes low pressure specific versions of their regulators

AKA 2 Liter works at 0-350psi and beats the Palmers hands down but is expensive

 

Stay away from

CMI R2000 <--- will not go below 200psi reliably despite what some websites say

Tipmman Techline regulaors <----made for higher pressures and will not go below 200psi

Bob Long Torpedo <--same 200psi problem

 

AKA Sidewinder <--can supposedly go from 0-700 but its age makes me suspicious. However, AKA has a good reputation so I might just be paranoid. If anyone owns one then feel free to post their experiences.

Edited by Brainplay

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Unfortunately, no you can't adjust the tank regulator. HPA tank regulators are heavy duty types which are usually non-adjustable and PRE-SET to a certain psi. This allows a secondary regulator be able to adjust to low pressures without the need for a beefy spring pack and be more precise. Techincally alot of paintball guns can handle 800psi just fine. Remember, these tank regulators are meant for regulating 4500psi into something more manageable.

 

The working psi you'll be working with is going to be between 90psi-150psi. The 150 mark is pretty high and if you're not careful you can end up shooting VERY hot.

 

You'll need to do some homework on each regulator that you are considering buying since some don't regulate as low as we want for airsoft. You'll be surprised that many do not go below 200psi. Also, many regulators will work fine with CO2 while some do not. Once again homework.

 

First its best to go straight to the manufacturer's website if available. If you can't find the info you need anywhere on the web then simply email them an information request. Most are quick to get back to you with an answer.

 

The following is a good starting place to check out some regulators. You'll need to weed through alot of paintball junk but there are many good bits of feedback there.

Regulator Reviews

 

There are a great number of regs out there to choose from. Here are a few things I've researched. This is not a holy grail and I recommend everyone does their own fact finding to be sure.

 

R-Drive II regulators go as low as 50psi

Hyperline II's are 50-450psi adjustable Hyperlines (version I) are 0-500 adjustable <--often found cheap on ebay

Palmers are well known already.

Some Hybrid models can be adjusted to 0psi

Custom Products Grip Regulator is a low pressure 0-500psi reg. Before purchase make sure that it is not upgraded to the heavy spring pack which works at 200-600psi.

Air America makes low pressure specific versions of their regulators

AKA 2 Liter works at 0-350psi and beats the Palmers hands down but is expensive

 

Stay away from

CMI R2000 <--- will not go below 200psi reliably despite what some websites say

Tipmman Techline regulaors <----made for higher pressures and will not go below 200psi

Bob Long Torpedo <--same 200psi problem

 

AKA Sidewinder <--can supposedly go from 0-700 but its age makes me suspicious. However, AKA has a good reputation so I might just be paranoid. If anyone owns one then feel free to post their experiences.

 

That makes sense. I PM'd you a question about a particular regulator.

For the list to make the rig I have so far a:

 

48ci 3000PSI HPA air tank = $60.00

Coiled hose = $ Unknown yet; What length is reasonable?

The other regulator = $10.50 so far on Ebay

The above mod = Free

 

A.)I take it one end of the regulator goes into the fitting on the magazine?

 

B.)Is there anything else that is needed to make this work properly/I am missing?

Edited by Airsofter329

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AKA Sidewinder <--can supposedly go from 0-700 but its age makes me suspicious. However, AKA has a good reputation so I might just be paranoid. If anyone owns one then feel free to post their experiences.

 

I have a couple AKA Sidewinder and have had no issues with them at all. Though I'm running them around 150-180 psi.

 

I really like Custom Products (CP) regulators! I used one on a sensitive/sort of delicate ION - you would damage things if you put too much pressure into it.

I used a CP reg on it &lt;AT&gt; around 120-150psi and it was consistent, which made it accurate. That ION could easily shoot over 15 balls per second and

no issues with the CP reg. **with CP regs be sure there's a gauge port (where it's tapped to accept a gauge) - some of their regs

have no gauge ports and you use the regulator on the paintball gun instead. You will need a gauge on the reg to adjust the psi to a low, safe pressure.

 

Guerrilla Air is the new name in paintball regulators and becoming the next "hot" thing.

yeah, they been around a couple years, but they have taken off recently. http://www.guerrillaair.com/ (find a retailer)

I mentioned them because of the Wevo tanks above do not have tank regulators on them

I believe http://www.wevopaintball.com/3000psitanks.html

 

DYE makes some good air thru regs for their paintball markers (guns), but not sure exactly how they will be within needed airsoft parameters.

 

Palmer is king, but you pay for his name...

and AKA is the master at low pressure.

 

slide checks are recommended on remotes! allows you to disconnect the remote line from the rifle and close off the air at the quick connector

instead of turning the tank off, then disconnecting the remote line and ALL the air in the line rushing out.

AKA has awesome slide checks and so does LAPCO

 

 

 

I would like to know how many shots can a gas powered airsoft sniper rifle get off a Co2 quick change unit?

I'm wondering about converting a VSR10 to gas powered. Where the gas nozzle is on those King Arms gas bolts for VSR10, it will move when the bolt is cycled.

I can imagine a metal elbow, quick connect, slide check and remote line all swinging around

as I slide the bolt to chamber a round. That got me to think about running a parallel chamber (Co2 quickchanger) to the bolt. make sense?

wouldn't be the cleanest look, but it would be compact. I'd have to figure out the regulator placement.

 

I nearly got my hands on a Tanaka M40 gas rifle last week. This was the HPA/Co2 rig the owner used. The regulator photo's is a CP (Custom Products) regulator.

remotesetup.jpg

the red circle there's a standard allen screw that adjusts the pressure of the reg. I believe tightening it increase, and loosening out decreases pressure through the reg.

I figured the photo would be helpful to show all the parts needed

Edited by Explosive aka X

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Some good info there on regulators. For our needs 90-150psi is the psi range to shoot for (pun intended). Over 150psi and you start to shoot into the 600fps range. :a-skeptical:

 

For the VSR conversion I found this little tidbit. Its not Tanaka or KJW related but it is air rig related. You can see the 12gr setup used along with a palmers.

VSR gas cylinder CO2 conversion

 

MagnumBB is working on a compact unit that he was able to stick inside of a cheek rest pouch running a micro-line into his tapped mag. I imagine you can do the same with the VSR just using a slightly long microline or even the Madbull gas port adaptor.

 

I'm hoping to see more gas rifles out there on the fields once they realize how good they are.

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For the VSR conversion I found this little tidbit. Its not Tanaka or KJW related but it is air rig related. You can see the 12gr setup used along with a palmers.

VSR gas cylinder CO2 conversion

That is awesome! and a paintball drop forward used on it!

 

I'm hoping to see more gas rifles out there on the fields once they realize how good they are.

actually being new to airsoft, I'm scratching my head wondering why there's not more HPA powered rifles out there. ???

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That is awesome! and a paintball drop forward used on it!

 

 

actually being new to airsoft, I'm scratching my head wondering why there's not more HPA powered rifles out there. ???

The rigs are kind of expensive and when people see they have to tap there mag they get scared off.

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well my local field will not allow modified magazines to be used.

 

Would recommend finding out the reasons why, and then start another thread about it. You might have an arguement that could be made in favor of this assuming you plan on doing this.

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Hi guys,

 

This thread was really good and I just wanted to show how I did with my Tanaka. (just finished it)

I got the idea from another guy that had done the same to his Tanaka AICS, and he said it worked great, so I just had to try it.

 

This adapter from Madbull, uses the 12g co2 cartridges, and on one cartridge I can shoot abut 5-6 magazines.

It works really great, and I have it set on about 200psi, wich I feel is enough. I havent been able to chrono it yet, so I don't know what fps im getting, but it feels like its has some serious power.

 

Here is the result after the modification.

post-41453-1230474931_thumb.jpg

Edited by BYXOR

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Hi guys,

 

This thread was really good and I just wanted to show how I did with my Tanaka. (just finished it)

I got the idea from another guy that had done the same to his Tanaka AICS, and he said it worked great, so I just had to try it.

 

This adapter from Madbull, uses the 12g co2 cartridges, and on one cartridge I can shoot abut 5-6 magazines.

It works really great, and I have it set on about 200psi, wich I feel is enough. I havent been able to chrono it yet, so I don't know what fps im getting, but it feels like its has some serious power.

 

Here is the result after the modification.

 

The Madbull CO2 charger wasn't designed to be used as a precise free flow regulator. So adjusting to psi by small increments is going to be a major pain in the rear. However, let us all know how yours turns out. This might be a possibility assuming the psi doesn't flucuate past +/-5psi

 

You can reach 550 fps (168mps or 2.8j) at 150psi or less. 200psi is going to put you way over that mark and into the "dangerous" category. Can the Madbull CO2 charger even go below 200psi?

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Well thats true, the madbull is not designed for this kind of use.

 

It starts from 0 to 1200psi, so I know there is no room for fine tuning the pressure. It had been so much better if it was from 0-300, but this was all I could get my hands on right now.

Once I get my hands on a chrono I check what kind of fps im getting now, and how much I can lower it by adjusting the psi.

Here in Sweden the sniper rifles usually chron about 600 fps or more so I don't see that as a major problem. Of course the safety distance increases, but thats why I have a sniper rifle..To shoot from a distance.

 

The first 2-3 mags I don't experience any pressure drop, but if I shoot more I loose a little pressure, but I guess its because the canister is running out of gas.

 

How consistent is this setup you have been showing here? Its probably much better, and if its possible I might just order some things from Palmers myself.

However, I will run this madbull setup for a while and see how it performs.

 

/Chris.

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Well thats true, the madbull is not designed for this kind of use.

 

It starts from 0 to 1200psi, so I know there is no room for fine tuning the pressure. It had been so much better if it was from 0-300, but this was all I could get my hands on right now.

Once I get my hands on a chrono I check what kind of fps im getting now, and how much I can lower it by adjusting the psi.

Here in Sweden the sniper rifles usually chron about 600 fps or more so I don't see that as a major problem. Of course the safety distance increases, but thats why I have a sniper rifle..To shoot from a distance.

 

The first 2-3 mags I don't experience any pressure drop, but if I shoot more I loose a little pressure, but I guess its because the canister is running out of gas.

 

How consistent is this setup you have been showing here? Its probably much better, and if its possible I might just order some things from Palmers myself.

However, I will run this madbull setup for a while and see how it performs.

 

/Chris.

 

CO2 powerletts as they're called give an average of 50 shots per cartridge. This can vary depending on your psi and spring tension combination. Most people tend to go with a 80-90% spring tension and around 130psi to get to the magical 500+fps range. I tried a 100% spring tension and 100psi combo to try and make high volume (air) low pressure shots while still hitting in the 500fps range. I came pretty close in the 650mm barrel I was using but the shots were very inconsistent and the number of shots per powerlett were reduced. So I'm back to the usual tension/psi combo.

 

On long strings of shots I get about +/-5 fps deviation. However, on some short 3 and 5 round strings I have gotten as low as +/- 0 deviation. The more you shoot the greater of a chance that you will get an odd shot that throws everything off. Since my old rifle is sold off I can't give you any more testing on that rifle. Once I get done rebuilding my new rifle I'll let you know how that goes.

 

When you get some better readings lease post your chrono readings and this discussion in another thread. That is some valuable information that warrants its own thread. Be sure to describe any problems with psi adjustment and some specific details you did to make it work. Also, while 600fps is fine in Sweden its not fine in many other locations. If you can adjust it reliably to lower psi's please include that information as well.

Edited by Brainplay

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So, Brainplay,

 

Low pressure, high volume settings will yeild worse FPS consistency than High pressure, low volume settings? That makes sense to me. But then again, you were using a very high volume barrel, so that's a variable to consider.

 

If I were using a 20 inch barrel (508mm), do you think I would get better, or worse consistency than a higher volume barrel?

 

Chris

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So, Brainplay,

 

Low pressure, high volume settings will yeild worse FPS consistency than High pressure, low volume settings? That makes sense to me. But then again, you were using a very high volume barrel, so that's a variable to consider.

 

If I were using a 20 inch barrel (508mm), do you think I would get better, or worse consistency than a higher volume barrel?

 

Chris

 

Thats a tough one to be honest. Unlike spring cylinders which you can measure the volume precisely the amount of gas being released is at best a guess. I'm sure there's probably a way but I can't think of it. Its possible your average tension/psi combo is expending more gas volume than a 650mm barrel hold. Once again, its a tough call.

 

Excess gas out of an unported barrel could cause an extra turbulence against the bb which might have cause some of the inconsistency. On the other hand it could have just been the amount of gas released was inconsistent from an overworked spring. Ironically, the low pressure high volume used to be a cornerstone of paintball long balling (yes I used an autococker back in the day).

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Hmm, well I'll do some testing, and get back to you on this subject. I'm curious now myself, and I'd like to be able to know.

 

Chris

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can someone post a picture and explain how to drill the tanaka M700 29rd long mags?

I opened the mag in the bottom by sliding away the metal plate and then I saw 2 sylinder formed gas chambers, one with a gas fill nipple under it and one that was sealed.

which one shall I drill and insert the HPA nipple in?

Edited by Timmeyh

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can someone post a picture and explain how to drill the tanaka M700 29rd long mags?

I opened the mag in the bottom by sliding away the metal plate and then I saw 2 sylinder formed gas chambers, one with a gas fill nipple under it and one that was sealed.

which one shall I drill and insert the HPA nipple in?

Don't drill it. Unscrew the old nipple. It was a while ago but I believe I just screwed the other one back in. If that doesn't work then I retapped the whole with a 10/32 tap. I don't know how big yours is so just use your size tap. You'll probably have to drill a hole in the metal plate to accommodate the nipple. The plate will be tough to get on but it will be on tight.

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if I want to keep the gas fill nipple, can I tapp the other cylinder instead? hte one closest to where the BBs are stored?

 

Not much reason to keep the fill nipple. It just gives it the opportunity to leak one day. I suppose if you drilled the other one, you could plug it if you wanted, but I don't know why you would ever go back to GG.I just did this last night actually. The fill hole makes a great pilot hole. Do youself a favor and unscrew the cylindar. If you take off the bottom cover to the long mag, there are two silver cylindars. They just unscrew from the magazine.

longmagnoshelloq2.jpg

 

 

If you unscrew the cylindar, you can drill it without getting bits of metal into the magazine, so you don't have to dissassemble the mag. I didn't know this, so I drilled it and had to dissassemble the magazine to clean it afterward. Make sure you tap it slowly, and go back to check the fitment of your fitting often. 1/8 NPT is a tapered fitting, so if you tap too deep, you could end up with a poor seal. I started my tap and tested it three times before it fit the way I wanted it to.

 

drillandtapjb3.jpg

 

I messed up and bent the feed tube on my long mag. (this wouldn't have happened if I kept the mag together and just unscrewed the cylindar). When I tried to bend it back, it snapped off! The long mag needs the outer shell to support the feed tube. It is only held on by a tinny piece of metal.

 

longmagbrokenjd8.jpg

 

No matter. I just whipped out my super duper "Goat Tuff" Glue, Glued it back on, and carefully tightened the screw at the bottom that holds the bottom of the feed tube, and it is GTG. This stuff is super strong. I would bet that it is stronger with this stuff than the original metal. If you glue something with this stuff, consider it permanent. You can get it at archery supply sources.

 

goattuffcp2.jpg

 

Here is the screw on the bottom that supports the feed tube and holds the feed tube spring retainer in place. Becareful when you loosen this that the spring doesn't shoot parts across the room.

 

longmagbottomscrewma9.jpg

 

Here is the finnished product:

co2rigaz7.jpg

 

Installed on rifle:

riflerigjl8.jpg

 

 

This long mag is fantastic! It was great having tons of ammo at my disposal. Here is an in game photo from today. I took out one opponent this game, from about 75 yards. It was my second shot on him. The first I missed by about 2 feet due to wind, but the second shot that I adjusted for hit him right in the mask.

 

ingameshotau5.jpg

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What should I do if I want to loose the coiled remote? Should I try and find a non coiled remote? Or just get some nylon air line? I eventually want to reduce the size of my rig even smaller and fit it in the stock, and run the line through a hole just below the grip(it is really close right now, but not quite compact enough). Is nylon pretty flexible or pretty stiff?

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nylon airlines can hold up to 10 bars and thats about 150 psi so it should hold just fine as long as u don't go higher than 700 fps (may vary from model to model) ;)

nylon is kinda stiff, but a bit flexible too. if ur gonna use nylon u have to make sure the nylon airline aint choking when u bend it so u gotta make some nice big curves where the air line turnes.

 

 

but how are u gonna connect the airline to the cylinder?

Edited by Timmeyh

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What should I do if I want to loose the coiled remote? Should I try and find a non coiled remote? Or just get some nylon air line? I eventually want to reduce the size of my rig even smaller and fit it in the stock, and run the line through a hole just below the grip(it is really close right now, but not quite compact enough). Is nylon pretty flexible or pretty stiff?

 

The nylon line is stiff but still fairly flexible. You don't want to be over bending it although from the sounds of your project it probably won't. You'll need to pick up some locking pressure fittings with a 1/4 male or female side. You can find alot of this at a hardware store. Believe it or not you might also want to check out paintball supply shots online. They sell various "macro-line" kits with fittings and hose included.

 

Here's an example of a paintball macro-line I found with 30sec of searching. Its only 1ft long though although I'm sure you can find longer kits if thats too short.

MACRO-LINE LINK

 

If you plan to run the hose through your grip, be prepared to have to load your rifle through the top of your rifle through the breech or have a 45degree quick disconnect and slide check setup. Even with a small mag you would need to disconnect the hose to avoid over bending it when removing the magazine. Bending that leads to a pinch (sort of what a straw looks like when you over bend) will quickly wear out a high pressure hose and lead to bulges or integrity failures even at the low pressures that we run.

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my tanaka 29rd mag just started leaking while I was chroning the rifle. it leaks out of the output whole on the top. the whole that feeds the cylinder. what can be wrong?

 

 

Probably an o ring is busted in the gas release tube. It's operated by an arm connect to the striker plate, and it's sealed off by an oring.

 

Chris

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my tanaka 29rd mag just started leaking while I was chroning the rifle. it leaks out of the output whole on the top. the whole that feeds the cylinder. what can be wrong?

 

sometimes a little silicone spray can fix that. But you don't want silicone in your hop up system, so remove the valve by removing the two screws on top and the screw holding the bottom of the feed tube on the inside of the outer shell. Be careful not to let the spring fly out. Then remove the feed tube. the brass valve will pop up with a little spring behind it. Set that aside and look down into the opening. There should be a slot for a screw driver. I believe that you screw that out and that is your valve. Remove the Orings, put them in a little dish or something, and spray silicone oil on them. Let them soak overnight. Replace everything and test it again.

 

 

You are using Green Gas right? You aren't on HPA yet? If you are on HPA, or CO2, your pressure may just be too high. You want the pressure around 100-110 psi.

 

Also, sometimes gently streaching an oring can improve its seal. We do this on AEG Piston Heads to improve the seal. I would do that last if nothing els works. DO IT GENTLY. You don't want to break the oring.

 

If none of this works, then you'll need a new valve. You can either rob one from the stock magazine, or try and track one down. However I have never seen a valve for one of these. Maybe they share a valve with some GBB pistol?

Edited by nodnarb

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I did the HPA mod a few days ago now. I just got some silicone in there and its sealed ;) so its perfect. is it possible to destroy the mags if ur going around 2-300 psi?

 

Yes. well, maybe just the seals. These mags are pretty robust. However I've heard the long mags can "swell." Don't know the extent of that. I've even heard of reinforced long mags that prevent against that, though I've never seen one for sale. I think the concept may have died a few years ago.

 

I would most certainly regulate that pressure down to 110psi. even 200psi is going to diminish your FPS unless you had a SUPER hard striker spring that could release the pressure(which would soon break the plastic spring seat). I found that when I got over 110psi I was actually getting less FPS than at lower pressure. 110psi is optimal for maximum FPS. You could go as high as 120 if you had an upgraded striker spring. Then you are at red gas levels of pressure.

 

For example, if you load Red gas into a normal mag with a stock striker spring, your FPS will most likely go down since the stock spring is incapable of releasing the increased pressure fully. It will only be able to partially strike the valve open, which results in lower pressure escaping and lower velocity. However with a G&G striker spring, you can shoot red gas and actually experience much higher velocities due to the valve being struck open harder(more FPS) and the ability to take advantage of the red gas pressure(even more FPS). I get such great performance at 110psi though, I don't even bother going higher.

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