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Brainplay

Constructing An Air Rig *56k Death*

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So if I want to make a CO2 Rig which uses 12g Co2 cartridges, can I use this set?

 

http://begadishop.com/catalog/product_info...a2ae5ec17f8c4ea

 

I got a tank to put the cartridges in, a reg, and a hose? Do I need anything else than this set??

 

Greets

 

yes, you'll need a secondary reg to fine adjust the psi.

the begadi one starts at about 100 psi and goes to 1500 psi so be carefull when you start off and be sure its set to minimum pressure or else you'll do like me and blow the

secondary regulator to pieces. :(

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yes, you'll need a secondary reg to fine adjust the psi.

the begadi one starts at about 100 psi and goes to 1500 psi so be carefull when you start off and be sure its set to minimum pressure or else you'll do like me and blow the

secondary regulator to pieces. :(

 

Thanks for your answer!

 

So I guess the second reg should be one of those, right?

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The regulators in that list do not need a first stage regulator like the Begadi you have listed. You can feed them straight Co2 without pre-regulation. Co2 runs at 850psi in average temperatures and the paintball regulators are rated to operate in the temperature.

 

The Begadi can technically be used by itself. However, the large operating range (100-1500psi) makes very fine adjustment very difficult. And in our game a difference in 5psi can have large results. Most of the time Classic airsoft users will run something like a Begadi and follow it up with a secondary regulator for fine tuning. Although ironically the rig I posted would work fine for them if they ever stopped trying to use ancient Palmers rigs and move to superior non-poppet, maximum flow, washer spring stacked regulators like the paintballers.

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The regulators in that list do not need a first stage regulator like the Begadi you have listed. You can feed them straight Co2 without pre-regulation. Co2 runs at 850psi in average temperatures and the paintball regulators are rated to operate in the temperature.

 

The Begadi can technically be used by itself. However, the large operating range (100-1500psi) makes very fine adjustment very difficult. And in our game a difference in 5psi can have large results. Most of the time Classic airsoft users will run something like a Begadi and follow it up with a secondary regulator for fine tuning. Although ironically the rig I posted would work fine for them if they ever stopped trying to use ancient Palmers rigs and move to superior non-poppet, maximum flow, washer spring stacked regulators like the paintballers.

 

Could you recommend me a new secondary regulator (rather small one if possible) for use with my begadi co2 12g capsule thingy?

I previously had the infamous "cold shot" kit so I need something I can fit in a rifle buttstock pouch..

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If you guys have cold shot kits then you actually already have a secondary regulator. The black block-like reg is whats called a "modular regulator" and can be had from various tool shops that deal with pneumatics for around $20 - $40 depending on the operating range. You'll just have to undo the slip fit attachment and pop it off. If you don't have a cold shot kit or do not want to take it apart then try visiting someplace like http://www.coastpneumatics.com/products/regulator/index.php or http://www.wilkersoncorp.com/product/regulators.html and look at the "modular" area.

 

You'll want something with an operating range up to 125psi (8.6 Bar) minimum and a supply pressure (how much it can handle going in) at around 300psi. Many of these will be precision regulators but they can't handle alot of pressure flowing into them (they can be fragile) so be sure to check on that supply pressure. You would have to crank down the pressure on you Begadi but since we do no shoot as fast as Classics you shouldn't run into any flow or choking problems.

 

One thing though. I would recommend you head over to the Classic airsoft forums http://classicairsoft.org and confirm double check all of this. Double regulators are more their area of expertise. Granted, if they would give up their old Palmers and get some modern paintball regs they wouldn't need a double reg setup.

 

Edit: McMaster Carr is one of the better places to get rig parts and fittings but I didn't realize they had modular mini-regs too: http://www.mcmaster.com/#4956k11/=5v0f9p

Edited by Brainplay

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If you guys have cold shot kits then you actually already have a secondary regulator. The black block-like reg is whats called a "modular regulator" and can be had from various tool shops that deal with pneumatics for around $20 - $40 depending on the operating range. You'll just have to undo the slip fit attachment and pop it off. If you don't have a cold shot kit or do not want to take it apart then try visiting someplace like http://www.coastpneumatics.com/products/regulator/index.php or http://www.wilkersoncorp.com/product/regulators.html and look at the "modular" area.

 

You'll want something with an operating range up to 125psi (8.6 Bar) minimum and a supply pressure (how much it can handle going in) at around 300psi. Many of these will be precision regulators but they can't handle alot of pressure flowing into them (they can be fragile) so be sure to check on that supply pressure. You would have to crank down the pressure on you Begadi but since we do no shoot as fast as Classics you shouldn't run into any flow or choking problems.

 

One thing though. I would recommend you head over to the Classic airsoft forums http://classicairsoft.org and confirm double check all of this. Double regulators are more their area of expertise. Granted, if they would give up their old Palmers and get some modern paintball regs they wouldn't need a double reg setup.

 

Edit: McMaster Carr is one of the better places to get rig parts and fittings but I didn't realize they had modular mini-regs too: http://www.mcmaster.com/#4956k11/=5v0f9p

Oh :pain:, I can't see through all of this :D

 

I want the Begai Booster (because I can get it local).

To sum it up:

If I want a complete Co2 Rig I need still a second reg (to fine adjust the pressure). It would be possible to use the Begadi Booster on its own, but that wouldn't be recommendable, because I couldn't adjust it like I want to.

 

Questions: What maximum going-in pressure does the second reg need (I can adjust that pressure from the Begadi Booster, right?)?

And outgoing pressure should be in the range of 0-150PSI, right?

 

What kind of shops do offer regs like that? (I mean local shops for everybody) I live in Austria, so it would be much more expensive to get me one in the USA than buy one right here.

 

What about the fittings? Does it matter if I take one with a 1/4'' pipe size or with a 1 1/2'' pipe size (second reg)? Are there adapters to buy, to convert the fittings?

 

Ok, I think I've listed all my questions. :D

Hope for your answers.

 

Greets

 

EDIT: Would that be a good second regulator (The first one)?

http://www.aircraft.at/produkte/druckluftt...aete/index.html

It would be cheap and local!

Edited by Sniper610

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yes it would as long as the Begadi will go bellow 12bar aka 175psi

 

I think it would have to work, because the hose of the Begadi can only stand 140PSI.

And I can regulate the pressure from the Begadi anywhay so this shouldn't be the problem :)

 

So now I just need a hose from the second reg to the mag and the adapters right?

 

EDIT: If you can tell me that this one is also possible, if the Begadi goes under ~140PSI, I know what I need :)

 

EDIT2:

I got the long magazine. Can I make the tapping next to the alu-zylinder (don't know its name)?

I wanted to upload pictures of it, but imageshack doesn't work. :/

Edited by Sniper610

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If I want a complete Co2 Rig I need still a second reg (to fine adjust the pressure). It would be possible to use the Begadi Booster on its own, but that wouldn't be recommendable, because I couldn't adjust it like I want to. Correct

 

Questions: What maximum going-in pressure does the second reg need (I can adjust that pressure from the Begadi Booster, right?)?

And outgoing pressure should be in the range of 0-150PSI, right? Most are around 300psi but they will tell you in their instructions. Input pressure do not need to be exact.

 

What kind of shops do offer regs like that? (I mean local shops for everybody) I live in Austria, so it would be much more expensive to get me one in the USA than buy one right here. Anyplace that works with high pressure air or gas. Large hardware stores, heavy paint supply shops, etc.

 

What about the fittings? Does it matter if I take one with a 1/4'' pipe size or with a 1 1/2'' pipe size (second reg)? Are there adapters to buy, to convert the fittings? Stick with small. The Begadi is sold only in Europe and probably uses metric fittings. Finding metric fittings and some high pressure hose should be fairly easy.

 

EDIT: Would that be a good second regulator (The first one)?

http://www.aircraft.at/produkte/druckluftt...aete/index.html

It would be cheap and local!

 

My German/Austrian translator isn't working really good. However, if what I'm reading is correct then yes something like that would work. You would have to find out the maximum input pressure but other than that, it looks good.

 

For the hose and fittings, do this: Remove the hose and fitting from the Begadi and move it to the output side of the second regulator. Now you just need a short hose and fittings to go between the Begadi and the second reg. Optional: Use a 90 degree fitting on the Begadi which will make the hose going to the second reg lie flat along the body of the Begadi. It will be more compact and look similar to a Cold Shot kit.

 

I got the long magazine. Can I make the tapping next to the alu-zylinder (don't know its name)?

 

What do you mean "next to"? Do you mean on the side? The cylinder shape gives it structural strength and to tap on the side would compromise some of that integrity. While the pressure we work with is low, and you probably could do it, I still wouldn't recommend doing it.

 

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Granted, if they would give up their old Palmers and get some modern paintball regs they wouldn't need a double reg setup.

 

What would be the best regulator if you used Co2 exclusively? I thought Palmers Stabilisers were still rated amongst the best for Co2.

Edited by bonzo_nz

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What would be the best regulator if you used Co2 exclusively? I thought Palmers Stabilisers were still rated amongst the best for Co2.

 

There is a thread about suitable regulators. There is no "best" regulator. They all do the same job fairly well. Price and flexibility is what you're comparing. As far as the Classic people go...eh. To each their own.

 

 

 

Find someone who rates the Palmers as "the best" and ask which other regulators he compared it too. Chances are their eyes will glaze over and they'll mumble something you won't understand then run away.

 

Palmers are well know because for the longest time they were the only reliable regulator that could reach below the 100psi mark. They were intended for use mostly by people who ran Autocockers which were the first real low pressure paintball markers. Later as new "competition grade" paintballs with thinner, more brittle walls were developed the technology for low pressure paintball markers kept pace. Low pressure higher volume was needed to launch these brittle paintballs without breaking them in the barrel from a high pressure hit of air. Since then the Palmers regulator being a spring loaded poppet style reg has fallen way out of favor with more serioius players. Better poppet designs, newer washer spring stack designs, and new Max-Flo valves made for superior regulators and usually at competitive prices.

 

Are Palmers still good for what we do? Yes, with their ultra low pressure spring pack they are good. Since we do not put any really heavy workload on them we do not have to worry about spring wear or sudden spikes. Palmers using an old fashioned coil spring in their poppet means they don't require a break in period either. The new modern regulators often do have break in periods which is their only real downside.

 

But more importantly, we're a world made up of lazy people. Most people would rather pay the $150+$20s/h for a Palmers rig setup than save $50 and make their own.

Edited by Brainplay

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I finally got my mag tapped and my rig hooked up. This is the best thing I ever did for my rifle's performance. I used a CP reg so it is set up a little different than Brainplay's. I found a 1/2" FIP quick shut off and put it in my setup right on top the end of my reg. The shut off held a seal but the threads didn't, I don't use the shut off so I'm not trying out locktight instead of teflon but I would get one of these before you go for a slide check.

 

My Rig

I also tried a crossman air source (basically an 88g powerlet) and found it to be a complete piece of :pain: . Stay away from it.

When I was between CO2 tanks I thought of a way to put propane through the regulator. It puts about 95 psi out at max and is a bit awkward to carry but works great and has a second regulator in it.

 

Take a 1/8" nipple, widen the inside to 17/64" and tap the inside of the nipple with a 5/16-24 tap. If you don't get the tap all the way through for one reason or another don't sweat it. Unscrew the tip from a blow torch (the cone at the end). There should be a cap sitting in the end of the pipe, remove it. Add your thread seal to the end and screw the torch head into the nipple. You have a propane adapter that will fit in your 1/8" piping.

 

Propane Hookup

 

A note: I think someone said it earlier but the tap you need for the mag is called a 1/8-27 PIPE, use a 5/16" drill for the hole.

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Great job! What PSI are you running? I've found the best results to be in the 100-120 range depending on bb weight used. Basically that is GG or red gas levels, only regulated for consistency.

 

I run 100 psi with a g&g striker spring as tight as possible. However my gauge reads +or - 10psi without me adjusting the reg (after the initial adjustmeant) at this pressure, depending on sun/shade and maybe other factors. My mag starts leaking at 180 psi, it stops when I turn the pressure down a little, I love shooting targets at 160 psi but I wouldn't play a game at that pressure.

 

 

PS

When I use propane (80 psi) I can manage to heave a .43 out to a decent range but suggest lighter bb's for regulated propane.

 

My gauge reads straight propane at 95psi for reference.

Edited by The Last Mohawk

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I run 100 psi with a g&g striker spring as tight as possible. However my gauge reads +or - 10psi without me adjusting the reg (after the initial adjustmeant) at this pressure, depending on sun/shade and maybe other factors. My mag starts leaking at 180 psi, it stops when I turn the pressure down a little, I love shooting targets at 160 psi but I wouldn't play a game at that pressure.

 

 

PS

When I use propane (80 psi) I can manage to heave a .43 out to a decent range but suggest lighter bb's for regulated propane.

 

My gauge reads straight propane at 95psi for reference.

 

2 more questions:

1.) just confirming that your CO2 tank doesn't have a tank regulator right? So the CP reg is regulating from whatever the full pressure of the CO2 is at the time?

 

2.) Have you crono'd your gun with your new setup? I'm interested in seeing your consistency in FPS with the CP reg.

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1 The CP reg is taking the full force of the CO2 tank.

2 I have not chronoed my gun, ever. I live in Maryland where chronographs are few and far between. The psi does not stay spot on, and needs to be re adjusted every now and then. This could be because I am using the 0-500 psi springs or the reg needs to wear in or the reg can't take full CO2 pressure or my pressure gauge could be junk or the CP reg isn't worth its salt. I really don't know which one it is. I'll get back to you when I find out.

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1 The CP reg is taking the full force of the CO2 tank.

2 I have not chronoed my gun, ever. I live in Maryland where chronographs are few and far between. The psi does not stay spot on, and needs to be re adjusted every now and then. This could be because I am using the 0-500 psi springs or the reg needs to wear in or the reg can't take full CO2 pressure or my pressure gauge could be junk or the CP reg isn't worth its salt. I really don't know which one it is. I'll get back to you when I find out.

 

Whats the psi rating on the gauge and the brand? If it's a 0-1000 gauge then the reading might be off. I did rough tuning with a 0-800 gauge and then replaced it with a 0-300 gauge for fine tuning.

 

Side note: Having you broken in the reg yet? Put 500 shots through it (don't need to use ammo) if you haven't. Paintballers usually do a full 1k dry fire to break in new non-poppet style regs.

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1 The CP reg is taking the full force of the CO2 tank.

2 I have not chronoed my gun, ever. I live in Maryland where chronographs are few and far between. The psi does not stay spot on, and needs to be re adjusted every now and then. This could be because I am using the 0-500 psi springs or the reg needs to wear in or the reg can't take full CO2 pressure or my pressure gauge could be junk or the CP reg isn't worth its salt. I really don't know which one it is. I'll get back to you when I find out.

aren't CP regs either 0-300 or 300+?

Maybe just your guage is 0-500.

 

Thanks for the intel.

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Anyone tried the ANS Jack Hammer 2 LPR?? Just want to be sure it's fine before I buy it. Here's a link:

 

Regulator

 

Only difference between it and other regs I've seen, is that it would screw directly into the cap on the bottle, instead of having a female fitting, it has a male on it's top... Anyone tried it?

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Anyone tried the ANS Jack Hammer 2 LPR?? Just want to be sure it's fine before I buy it. Here's a link:

 

Regulator

 

Only difference between it and other regs I've seen, is that it would screw directly into the cap on the bottle, instead of having a female fitting, it has a male on it's top... Anyone tried it?

 

You'll need to tap the side as well. The output port on the side is a 10/32 which is fairly small. The LPR is usually not considered a precision instrument as it's job is to take a portion of the air expended while shooting an autococker and forcing a pneumatic ram to ":censored2:" the gun. If you're willing to give it a try then go for it. LPR's are fairly cheap even brand new. Just be sure to check it's pressure rating before you pressurize the thing. Many are rated to function in a 400psi gun with their max input pressure in the 800's (HPA standard output is 850psi while room temp Co2 is in the middle 800's).

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You'll need to tap the side as well. The output port on the side is a 10/32 which is fairly small. The LPR is usually not considered a precision instrument as it's job is to take a portion of the air expended while shooting an autococker and forcing a pneumatic ram to ":censored2:" the gun. If you're willing to give it a try then go for it. LPR's are fairly cheap even brand new. Just be sure to check it's pressure rating before you pressurize the thing. Many are rated to function in a 400psi gun with their max input pressure in the 800's (HPA standard output is 850psi while room temp Co2 is in the middle 800's).

any normal regulators you suggest??

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any normal regulators you suggest??

 

Read up through this entire subsection. Several threads will provide you with answers you'll probably want to know later on.

 

Here is one I put together a while back.

http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/List-Che...-P-t163702.html

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If you want to buy the best LPR for this kind of setup, then for 29.95, you can have...

LPR

A palmers rock LPR. it is advertised as a lite, but it you will get the rock. A friend bought one last week and he got the rock.

Here are some specs:

Light Rock, with over-pressure relief valve. Recommended for use with unregulated CO2 power source. -OD: 0.875" (7/8") -----Length: 3.4" -----Output: 10-32 female -----Input: 1/8" npt 27 male -----Max input psi: 1500 -----Psi out: 0-300 -----Weight: 3 oz

I tapped a hole for a 0-300 psi gauge on mine, works really good.

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aren't CP regs either 0-300 or 300+?

Maybe just your guage is 0-500.

 

Thanks for the intel.

 

Sorry for the delay. I hope I'm not too late.

The CP reg is 0-500 psi, as stated on the box from dorosports.com. My KAPP 0-300 psi mini pressure gauge is shot, it can read up to 30 psi over the actual pressure, I think there is teflon crammed in it. It is only really reliable enough for telling me if my CO2 is empty or off. I tested the pressure directly from my mag with something called a compression tester. The compression tester is essentially a pressure gauge with a rubber nib attached to the end with a hole and one way vale in the nib. Pressing this nib against a circular output valve (the one on top of the mag) creates an air seal and gives a reading. I found that the pressure output on my mag with the compression tester was about 90 psi +- 1.5 psi while my KAPP gauge read anywhere from 80 psi to 120 psi. I suggest staying away from KAPP pressure gauges or just all paintball minigauges.

 

I retested Propane with the compression tester with the tanks between 50 and 70 degrees F. One tank, relatively full was 110 psi, the other which had almost no liquid in it was about 104 psi to 100 psi ( it started running out through my trials).

 

I also thought of a way to test for the optimal gas volume to put into your barrel behind your bb. I took the compression tester, stuck it on the muzzle and dry fired. Because of the one way valve on the compression tester I was able to read the pressure in the barrel after it all dispersed through the not so tight seal between the mag and the bolt. I wanted the gauge to read no more than two atmospheres, one atmosphere for the air in front of the bb and one for the air behind the bb (one atmosphere is about 14.7 psi at sea level and can change due to weather) to achieve Max Power without destablizing the bb. The gauge wound up reading about 26 psi. My reg was putting out 90 psi with my g+g striker spring cranked all the way up.

 

I hope wading through all this helps.

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So far I've only seen HPA rigs done to standard mags, which require drilling and tapping. I made mine with a Tanaka hi-cap and didn't have to drill at all. After disassembling the mag I simply unscrewed the silver cylinder that leads to the propane input nozzle and threaded in a 3/8 to 1/8 reducer in its place. Directly to that I attached my 1/8 remote hose. Took some Teflon tape on the exterior threads and some generic "O-ring protector sealant goop stuff" on the inside of the reservoir but I got a perfect air seal. I can try to post pictures if anybody is interested.

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Does anybody know where I can find the QD fitting that is used for the mags? Also the QD fitting for the coil hose?

 

Thanks =D

 

You can pick up a QD and nipple combo for around $5 from most paintball websites. If you need it right away, check any scuba diving shops and see if they have a threaded version. *Note: these do not have an on/off switch which must be purchased separately

 

http://www.e-paintball.com/product.php?productid=17455

 

And finally if you're willing to spend the cash, you can pick up a McMaster QD with valve on/off. These are a bit thicker than a pencil, have a built in ball bearing shut off valve that kicks in immediately when you disconnect, and weigh less. The downside is of course the price. Below are the ordering numbers.

 

http://www.mcmaster.com/#

 

9414K62 - $5 the nipple by itself. Attaches directly to magazine or to a brass fitting mounted on the magazine.

9414K19 - $11 female QD. Requires a hose attachment

 

5225K604 - $4.50 6mm hose attachment. Slip fit style for use with macroline. Check your macroline size before ordering. Not all macroline is 6mm.

 

or

 

9162K311 - $11.50 Chrome plated brass high pressure double sided coupler for threaded hoses like a coiled remote line. Alternatively you can get these at your local hardware store for about half or a quarter of the price.

 

Total: $31.50 shipping not included.

 

As you can see it's much more expensive but much more streamlined and efficient than the original rig's connection. But then the original rig in this post can be had for under $100 and is intended as an economical but very functional rig for those on a budget. Advanced users will eventually upgrade to more expensive parts as they grow used to using an air rig.

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awesome, thanks a lot for the links.

 

Is this the the on/off switch you are talking about? The one thats on the hose in this link

 

 

The on/off is the red thing known as a slide check. You have to buy that separately. It attaches between the quick disconnect and the hose. Most remote line's do not come with one standard so if you disconnect without one you will lose all of your air. Due to their popularity you can find more deals that include them.

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sweet, thanks a lot for the help.

 

Also I heard it's bad to use green gas b/c of the silicon. I plan on using propane so should I not put drops of silicon in the well of the propane canister?

 

thanks

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sweet, thanks a lot for the help.

 

Also I heard it's bad to use green gas b/c of the silicon. I plan on using propane so should I not put drops of silicon in the well of the propane canister?

 

thanks

 

We go over this in the topic before this one "Tanaka ACIS preban" where we discuss maintenance at the end.

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So I've got everything I need to run 12g Co2 cartridges, but I had one question on the regulator. I will be using a CP reg with spring stack for 0-300 psi. Would it also be a good idea to get a second regulator to bring the original pressure from the cartridge down to that range or will a single reg be okay?

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So I've got everything I need to run 12g Co2 cartridges, but I had one question on the regulator. I will be using a CP reg with spring stack for 0-300 psi. Would it also be a good idea to get a second regulator to bring the original pressure from the cartridge down to that range or will a single reg be okay?

 

One will be fine.

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I hooked up my rig today and had some problems. I screwed in the Co2 cartridge and the lines filled (I had a air gauge that read 0-300psi on the regulator). The gauge jumped way past 300 and stayed near the bottom. I pressed the gas release lever on the magazine and only a small amount of air escaped. I had to unscrew the cartridge to get it to release the pressure.

 

What went wrong? I am using a CP short regulator (0-300psi), Bottom line adapters, Macro line fittings, and a 12gram Co2 cartridge rig. Do I need a adapter to bring the pressure down more before I run it through the CP reg?

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can I just get a quick run down on what parts are what in your pictures? it got confusing after a while, haha

..like, what's that long thing that holds gas cartridges, and the other main pieces...

 

Regulator: self explanatory

Coiled Remote: consists of an ASA adapter with on/off knob, coiled pressure hose, quick disconnect, and male air fitting (aka nipple which screws into mag and locks into quick disconnect)

12 gram quick changer: the pipe looking thing that the 12 gram cartridges fit

 

Everything else are brass fittings you get form a hardware store and are clearly listed

The Coiled Remote is cannibalized for parts. This is the cheapest route to go.

 

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Regulator: self explanatory

Coiled Remote: consists of an ASA adapter with on/off knob, coiled pressure hose, quick disconnect, and male air fitting (aka nipple which screws into mag and locks into quick disconnect)

12 gram quick changer: the pipe looking thing that the 12 gram cartridges fit

 

Everything else are brass fittings you get form a hardware store and are clearly listed

The Coiled Remote is cannibalized for parts. This is the cheapest route to go.

 

thank you very much, I plan on doin this to my M40A1 mag

would it be helpful, or a useless waste to get the G&G power pack fitted in the same tapped magazine? it increases FPS slightly, and mostly increases consistancy

 

but will it help with a tapped CO2 mag?

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