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Guest danimal94

Obama: What Do You Think Will Happen?

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Guest danimal94

I was just wondering what you guys think Obama is going to improve or mess up. I am very disappointed about his election, but what can I do? I am mostly disappointed in his support of abortion and his anti-gun policies. I think things may not work out in this country for many reasons, mostly because we will be undoing what this country has done the past 8 years. I could get very insulting and angry so Ill stop there, Of course, mods if this is not working, go ahead and close it right away, I don't think warnings are even necessary.

 

thanks,

DmD

Edited by danimal94
title edit

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...mostly because we will be undoing what this country has done the past 8 years.

On most accounts, I'm pretty sure that would be a good thing...

 

 

Pretty much the only policy don't agree with President-elect Obama on is Gun Owners Rights, but not to worry, I wrote him a letter. :a-thumbsup:

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Guest danimal94
On most accounts, I'm pretty sure that would be a good thing...

 

 

Pretty much the only policy don't agree with President-elect Obama on is Gun Owners Rights, but not to worry, I wrote him a letter. :a-thumbsup:

not necessarily. when Bush was first elected, right away 9/11 happens. The people blame him. and after there haven't been any terrorist attacks since. So are we going to go back to where we were? basically, Bush wasn't as bad as everyone says. people just need someone to blame their problem on, and unfortunately Bush was that person. I don't like him very much, but I still think he did do some good. I also am against abortion. I think that it is terrible that he would kills babies...Oh and I hope your letter was good, I need to get a gun and Obama might mess that up.

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Guest Luftwaffe

Hopefully things will get better. Also, about the abortion subject, he isn't killing babies. The doctors kill babies. And they aren't even full on babies yet, they are just embryos. So they are killing embryos. Why are people so keen on controlling other peoples lifestyles? Does it affect your life if someone gets an abortion? If so, how?

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Hopefully things will get better. Also, about the abortion subject, he isn't killing babies. The doctors kill babies. And they aren't even full on babies yet, they are just embryos. So they are killing embryos. Why are people so keen on controlling other peoples lifestyles? Does it affect your life if someone gets an abortion? If so, how?

 

I found that part I put in bold amusing because the Democrats want more government control.

 

Here's what I had to say a page or two back in the Obama vs. McCain thread:

 

First off, downplaying a future human's condition based on anatomical terms is pretty underhanded. "Fetus", "Embryo"; they're all the same in the respect that they are babies in development of being born. Now, I believe abortion should be an option ONLY for three conditions:

 

1) Rape - I agree that no woman should be forced to bear the child of such a lowly creature that would assault her sexually. However, I don't think that waiting several months later to do so isn't right because any woman can claim to have been raped but the evidence would be hard to find at that point (skin under her fingernails, bruises/scratches/cuts from the attack, etc). In the case of rape, I think that a woman should report the incident as soon as she can (after seeking immidiate medical attention first to recover physically and emotionally). And by rape, I mean both unconsentual (being date-raped included but not if she decided to just have a ton of drinks that night) and also statutory (age 17 and below).

 

2) Incest - This one is pretty much self explanitory, however, I only include it for incidents that involve molestation of some sort from a family member (and not just older male x younger female).

 

3) Lethal Childbirth - What I mean by that term (not sure what the short official term would be for it) is when it can be determined some time in the pregnancy that bearing the child (and even by cesarean) will be lethal to the mother. In such cases, though I don't like it, I think it should be an option.

 

Now, I agree with some above members in the conservative stance of individual responsibility. People think you have to have sex/drink/smoke. You DON'T. If you want to be technical, you don't even need schooling to live. Hell, if primitive tribes can survive without technology and barely any clothing, then you need to seriously look at the difference between a 'need' and a 'want'. On the subject of sex, you don't HAVE to pop your cherry at a young age or pre-maritally, or even at all. Virginity isn't a mentally or physcially life-threatening condition. Seriously, what's there to fear? Never having to worry about an STD? Never having to worry about an unplanned pregnancy? Good lord, that's just criminal that you won't have to worry about such conditions because you were reseponsible. I'm a 22 year old virgin (23 in Jan) and I don't give a flip that my 20 year old brother is already doing the horizontal bop with his current girlfriend (and did it with his second too when they were dating) because if he ends up fathering a child with his current girlfriend, I will show no remorse. It was his decision to have sex. He uses condoms, but they aren't 100% effective. Neither are pills, female condoms, and so forth. The only safe sex is no sex, plain and simple. Abstinance isn't a crime, for crying out loud! Yeah, you won't be 'cool', but you also don't ever have to worry about herpes or siring a child.

 

The same applies to drugs, smokes, and alcohol. You don't have to do these things. Aside from a glass of wine I had at my dad's wedding to my stepmom when I was six (I thought it was grape juice), I've never had an alcolic beverage in my life. And you know what? Miraculously, I'm still living! I'm actually a contributing member of society despite that! WOW! Never even taken a drag of a cig or a puff of a cigar. Never done a drug of any sort (never even abused a prescription medication). Why? Not because of the Christian values I was raised on, and not because I'm scared to death of my mother if I were to do such things, but because I paid attention in health class and when my school did the D.A.R.E. programs. I've taken responsibility for myself in regards to drugs, alcohol, and sex. So, to all you people saying that it's unfair that a couple should be foreced to raise a child they can't afford: sorry, charlie, but that's what being an adult means. If you're all about being grown-up because you can have sex now, there's no double standard that says you can back out of your responsibility since you're also an adult with a baby now. If you can't raise the child, give the child up for adoption to a better home. There are countless childless couples (or loving families) that want to adopt an underprivilaged child. If I ever get around to getting married one day, I would like to adopt at least one child and give them the life they wouldn't have had if they stayed with their bioloogical parent(s).

 

*makes platypus noises*

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Guest danimal94
Hopefully things will get better. Also, about the abortion subject, he isn't killing babies. The doctors kill babies. And they aren't even full on babies yet, they are just embryos. So they are killing embryos. Why are people so keen on controlling other peoples lifestyles? Does it affect your life if someone gets an abortion? If so, how?

Killing Embryos is still killing a baby. and if the baby isn't a "person" when it is an embryo, or when the mom still is carrying it, at what point does it become a person? You can't honestly tell me that it is an embryo one minute, a person the next with a serious face. Also those are some solid points the Kalishnakov.

Edited by danimal94

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The killing of babies does affect us in the long run. Our population goes down (mainly Democrats..), and more importantly, it makes the idea of murder seem more accepted. With the rate our country is going, it won't be long before murder in the open streets is legal: Anarchy.

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The killing of babies does affect us in the long run. Our population goes down (mainly Democrats..), and more importantly, it makes the idea of murder seem more accepted. With the rate our country is going, it won't be long before murder in the open streets is legal: Anarchy.

1: And so too does our population density. Besides, for every abortion, think of how many babies are born. Whether it be accidental, planned, what have-you. It could be anything from a couple that wants 7+ children, to a single mom who decides to keep her one and only...

2: Not only does that not make sense, but I don't really think it was necessary. And it didn't make sense... (yes I know I already said that...)

3: Almost everything in our society makes murder/violence more accepted. Well, perhaps accepted isn't the right word. It's not like you can just run over a cat, and nobody cares. I think our society is simply more numb to death/murder/violence, though not exactly accepting...

4: Please tell me that was an attempt at humor. I seriously doubt that anarchy in America would be possible without some extremely significant event triggering it. I mean like, WWIII with nukes fallin' outta da sky...

Edited by Spudenater

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I was just wondering what you guys think Obama is going to improve or mess up. I am very disappointed about his election, but what can I do? I am mostly disappointed in his support of abortion and his anti-gun policies. I think things may not work out in this country for many reasons, mostly because we will be undoing what this country has done the past 8 years. I could get very insulting and angry so Ill stop there, Of course, mods if this is not working, go ahead and close it right away, I don't think warnings are even necessary.

 

thanks,

DmD

 

 

As far as how Obama will perform, unfortunately I'm not expecting much from him. He's been elected by folks who believed everything he told them, and I'm fairly certain he won't be able to deliver on much of it, but in all fairness, neither could any politician. Having said that, I think we'll see what most of us already know, and that is he is a typical Politician, someone who promises the moon and doesn't deliver. My primary issues with him are based mostly on National Defense, and the 2nd Amendment. We know the dems want to bring us back around to an AW ban, and they may very well succeed with that given that Pelosi, Reed and now Obama are pretty much on the same page in regards to that.

 

As far as his ability to help the economy, I don't think he'll help it, but rather hurt it more, although I'm praying he gets advisors with common sense that steer him away from much of his tax-a-palooze issues. In regards to the Pro Life movement, I'm a registered Republican and I believe a woman should have the right to decide as to whether she wants to abort a pregnancy, however I do believe there needs to be some things at play. I don't think women should be able to use Abortions as a means of birth control, and many do that, I also believe that if the woman/girl is underage, her parents should be notified. I don't think people not directly involved ie: parents/husband/boyfriend/relatives, should have any say in whether a woman should or shouldn't have an abortion, but that stems from my beliefs, and I'll admit, I'm not an overly religious person although I do believe in /THOU SHALT NOT USE MY NAME IN VAIN/, but we'll leave it at that.

 

In closing, I won't wish ill will upon the Obama administration, I'm just not expecting much at all, except for disappointment for those that voted for him, if they did so based on believing he really was the "Change" he claimed he was. I also hope that at least he's able to surround himself with competent advisors, specifically in the National Security/Military area, and that we don't get "tested" too much as Joe Biden eluded to last week.

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The killing of babies does affect us in the long run. Our population goes down (mainly Democrats..), and more importantly, it makes the idea of murder seem more accepted. With the rate our country is going, it won't be long before murder in the open streets is legal: Anarchy.

 

Anarchy isn't going to breakout and murder isn't going to be legal in the streets. We're not living in chaotic times where there's mass civil unrest like in the 1970's.

Stop being so melodramatic.

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Guest Luftwaffe

Does it really affect your life if someone gets an abortion? Especially someone you don't know? If so, how?

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Guest danimal94
Does it really affect your life if someone gets an abortion? Especially someone you don't know? If so, how?

 

 

Does it really affect your life if someone you don't know is murdered?

 

Does that make it ok?

exactly. There aren't any big side affects or huge consequences to abortion, but it is murder and it is wrong. I don't understand how one can support such a thing.

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Guest Luftwaffe
Does it really affect your life if someone you don't know is murdered?

 

Does that make it ok?

 

Does it affect my life? No. Does it make it okay? Depends on how abortion is perceived. Not all people see it as murdering an innocent life. The life isn't fully formed yet, and so what are you killing? A baby? No. You're killing an embryo which is has not fully formed into a complete baby. I don't see why people feel so strongly about controlling others beliefs and personal lives. That just seems ignorant to me.

 

Edit: The world is not benefiting or losing anything when an embryo is killed. It is also not formed enough to be aware that it is being killed. And finally, restricting pro-choice is restricting a woman's choice. This means the woman is not completely free to make decisions for herself.

Edited by Luftwaffe

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Ha, sometimes America makes me laugh.

 

First, I find it funny the way we argue abortion. People fight over weather an embryo is a human or not. If you believe it is, you believe it is. If you believe it is not, you believe it is not. That argument needs to go away... It is dumb. No one will suddenly be convinced otherwise on what a human life is... You either see it as living or not living. That is not what matters, so stop beating a dead horse and move on to a stance that you can convince people of.

 

Second, for those of you who are strongly against abortion in ALL cases, including rape and what not... What do you feel about war? What do you feel about our criminal justice systems? Gun rights? All the things that do involve death within our country of people that are indisputably living should be dealt with as well. I am not against gun rights, or have anything against or law enforcement, it is just something to consider. Priorities are in line. People who say abortion is murder should look at what else we have done. Was the Iraqi war not murder? Food for thought if nothing else. Consider the deaths within our country and abroad, and hopefully you will see what is going on. We have death all around us, so singling in on abortion is absurd. Now, if you have a hatred for the war in iraq, believe the police need to get in the game in certain major cities, are WILLING to pay the taxes for it, and believe in stricter gun laws, then hey... I tip my hat to you. I do not mind if you go one way or the other, but an anti abortion pro free gun laws, pro war human being is simply beyond me.

 

Lastly, my opinion. I will never encourage any girl into an abortion. I man up. I will always man up... ALWAYS. However, I won't stop some one else from doing so. It is not my place. It is especially not the government's place. I feel it would be awful, however I am not in charge. I won't force any one into anything. I am not better than them, after all. If you feel your morals are "better" than some one who has an abortion, please... I hope you can grow up. Morals are no better or worse, they are personal. The fact is no one on earth is better or worse, and no one knows more or less. I hope no one here feels to be so much better than another to be able to tell them what to do.

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I don't belive any major change will be had, for one I never bought into the "hope" and "change" for many reasons firstly because all in all hes still a polotition not the savior. Secondly when it comes down to economic problems I believe that the fix is not in the gov. and regulation is not the answer. Untill people man up and take responsiblity for their mistakes nothing will change Its not the banks fault you took money you couldnt pay back and bought the house you couldnt afford, its not the credit card company's fault you maxed out your card on crap you don't need its not the governments fault because they didnt tell you couldnt afford something and frankly if you need them to, esspesialy being a full grown adult, then your in a really bad place. Change starts with the people and untill they do it will never come. I hope for the best in the next four to eight years but the way american society is at the moment I don't see it happening.

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Its not the banks fault you took money you couldn't pay back and bought the house you couldn't afford, its not the credit card company's fault you maxed out your card on crap you don't need its not the governments fault because they didn't tell you couldn't afford something

That is by far one of the best (non-lol) things I've heard on these forums in a while.

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Wow...much different crowd here then at YCD for the most part...

 

First, if you are going to rag on President Bush, do some research first and you will find out that he didn't do as bad of a job as most of the country believes!

 

Look up the definition of life..now look up the definition of "Kill"...now try to tell me that abortion isn't murder. Yay, you voted to give women "pro-choice"...the choice to murder a baby that didn't have a choice at all.

 

Abortion will affect America in the long run, it DOES influence murder...well, it is murder. SO when you say, "It isn't my place to worry about what someone else is doing or affect their choice." you are saying that if your neighbor beats his kid into submition to do something immorral every day, you don't care because it is his choice? You will let other suffer and die because it isn't hurting you?! IF you say "No I wouldn't let him do that, it is wrong." then you have something wrong with you to say different about abortion when it involves KILLING a baby that hasn't even had a chance, if you say yes, then you are another peice of living proof of how FRICKING SELFISH America has gotten...

 

If a women is pregnant, then unless she was raped, she is responsible for her actions....she should have to have the child and raise it. So is this what America is wanting...to have children desensitised due to the limitless ways to avoid consequenses for their actions and to start having sex like it is nothing with anyone?!

 

America in my opinion, is not going to fair well in the next 4 years....but I pitty Isreal more then America. Bush has been defending Isreal for 8 years now..and now that conflict did break out at larger scale then it had in a long time in the middle east, we get part way through and then abandon Isreal to the middle east all by itself. Incase you didn't know, Iran is already planning a preemptive strike against Isreal as soon as we pull out.

 

When the terrorists are cheering for Obama, you know something is wrong.

 

Also, if you would do your research Bopper, you would realise that the right to bare arms saves more innocent lives then it kills innocent lives. Not to mention fighting against it is COMPLETELY unconstitutional. And you would also notice, if you studied history a little, that if America hadn't gotten soft since WWII we never would have lost a war... I mean, we went from in WWII killing millions of people (outside of the holocost) in the war, to being afraid to kill one civilian from Iraq (Yet you are all for us killing our own babies!!??). We dropped insindiary bombs on cities that may have had no German soldiers at all from what we knew...we killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people to show that we are not a country to be messed with...and I haven't seen Germany shooting at us since. Now look at what happened in Tsumalia several years ago, we sent in soldeirs that couldn't even shoot a man aiming at them unless he squezed his trigger, and they also couldn't shoot at any innocent civilians that protected the enemy...our soldiers where very blessed to get out of that situation alive. Now look at Iraq, Bush and our generals successfully organised this war that killed thousands of terrorists while sparring the lives of thousands of innocents, but you credit him for causing a horrible war...the media is screwing us and we are getting WAY to soft.

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Does it affect my life? No. Does it make it okay? Depends on how abortion is perceived. Not all people see it as murdering an innocent life. The life isn't fully formed yet, and so what are you killing? A baby? No. You're killing an embryo which is has not fully formed into a complete baby. I don't see why people feel so strongly about controlling others beliefs and personal lives. That just seems ignorant to me.

 

Edit: The world is not benefiting or losing anything when an embryo is killed. It is also not formed enough to be aware that it is being killed. And finally, restricting pro-choice is restricting a woman's choice. This means the woman is not completely free to make decisions for herself.

 

READ the first post I made in this thread. Especially the parts about taking responsibility for one's actions. Abortion isn't a "Get out of parental responsibilty FREE" card as a birth-control. If you think you're responsibile enough to have sex, you're responsible enough to take care of the baby because of your decision.

 

Ha, sometimes America makes me laugh.

 

First, I find it funny the way we argue abortion. People fight over weather an embryo is a human or not. If you believe it is, you believe it is. If you believe it is not, you believe it is not. That argument needs to go away... It is dumb. No one will suddenly be convinced otherwise on what a human life is... You either see it as living or not living. That is not what matters, so stop beating a dead horse and move on to a stance that you can convince people of.

 

Second, for those of you who are strongly against abortion in ALL cases, including rape and what not... What do you feel about war? What do you feel about our criminal justice systems? Gun rights? All the things that do involve death within our country of people that are indisputably living should be dealt with as well. I am not against gun rights, or have anything against or law enforcement, it is just something to consider. Priorities are in line. People who say abortion is murder should look at what else we have done. Was the Iraqi war not murder? Food for thought if nothing else. Consider the deaths within our country and abroad, and hopefully you will see what is going on. We have death all around us, so singling in on abortion is absurd. Now, if you have a hatred for the war in iraq, believe the police need to get in the game in certain major cities, are WILLING to pay the taxes for it, and believe in stricter gun laws, then hey... I tip my hat to you. I do not mind if you go one way or the other, but an anti abortion pro free gun laws, pro war human being is simply beyond me.

 

Lastly, my opinion. I will never encourage any girl into an abortion. I man up. I will always man up... ALWAYS. However, I won't stop some one else from doing so. It is not my place. It is especially not the government's place. I feel it would be awful, however I am not in charge. I won't force any one into anything. I am not better than them, after all. If you feel your morals are "better" than some one who has an abortion, please... I hope you can grow up. Morals are no better or worse, they are personal. The fact is no one on earth is better or worse, and no one knows more or less. I hope no one here feels to be so much better than another to be able to tell them what to do.

 

Firstly, war isn't always killing innocent civilians. The point of the wars we participate in is to kill the proverbial 'bad guys' (ie- terrorists, communists, fascists, and all other homocidal/genocidal armed personel). War happens when simply talking doesn't solve anything. Killing senselessly is wrong, I agree. But killing someone who seeks to kill you and your fellow countrymen and your society's way of life is justifiable. Killing a thug who breaks into your house in the middle of the night to steal your money and kill you (and perhaps raping the women in the house) is justifiable because such people are seeking to infringe on your rights to life, liberty, and happiness. Legal gun ownership saves lives. Don't beleive me, look at the statistics. States that adopted carry-concealed permit programs actually saw a DECLINE in crime. Florida was the first state to adopt the 'shall issue' right for a CCW, and as high as their crime rate is now, it was WAY worse before the carry permit program was adopted. Gun control doesn't work because it only affects law-abiding citizens. Criminals will get guns illegally, no matter what laws are. Rather than make it more illegal, throw the judicial book at the defendants who commit crimes with guns and give them harsher setencing after the fact. Cars kill more people a year than guns do in the US, just so you know.

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I am pro-life with one exception. If the mother is raped or molested, she can have an abortion within 4 weeks of the event, when the embryo is not conscious or in any way separated from the fetus of any other animal.

 

What I find ridiculous and infuriating is that the right wing campaigns to prevent birth control. They want to make it so that women and men on college campuses cannot receive contraception.

 

OK PEOPLE! Do you even think once about these things? It's COLLEGE for /THOU SHALT NOT USE MY NAME IN VAIN/'s sake. People will have sex, and if they can't get birth control, then there is a rise in unwanted babies, and then if they can't get an abortion, they need to take care of this baby and if they are single, this can preclude any income, leaving a woman and a baby to live in poverty. Is that what you want? I don't think so.

 

Oh yeah, I am also pro-gun.

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I am pro-life with one exception. If the mother is raped or molested, she can have an abortion within 4 weeks of the event, when the embryo is not conscious or in any way separated from the fetus of any other animal.

 

What I find ridiculous and infuriating is that the right wing campaigns to prevent birth control. They want to make it so that women and men on college campuses cannot receive contraception.

 

OK PEOPLE! Do you even think once about these things? It's COLLEGE for /THOU SHALT NOT USE MY NAME IN VAIN/'s sake. People will have sex, and if they can't get birth control, then there is a rise in unwanted babies, and then if they can't get an abortion, they need to take care of this baby and if they are single, this can preclude any income, leaving a woman and a baby to live in poverty. Is that what you want? I don't think so.

 

Oh yeah, I am also pro-gun.

 

Yes, heaven forbid you actualy have to walk or drive over to a Walmart or convenience store for contraceptives. I mean, it's not like gas prices are lower now than they have been in almost 9 months. And you don't HAVE to have sex. I've stated this before in the above posts.

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Well... Already he's posted the biggest post-election stock market drop in history. Biggest 2 day drop in the stocks since the 80s. Russia has threatened putting missiles on the boarder of Poland.

 

It's starting to come out that job loss has increased dramatically but that reflects loss prior to the election, apprehension of the elections could be a factor. We'll have to wait and see for how his election affected jobless.

 

The crazy guy in Iran praised Obama's election(first for Iran since the revolution in the 70s).

 

---

 

If this is any indication of the future than it does not look pretty. We'll only start having an idea once Obama is in the presidency (re)acting to these issues.

 

Oh and fyi, I just learned that Obama has another half-brother. He lives in China and has an internet company that helps Chinese companies sell cheap crap to America.

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Yes, heaven forbid you actualy have to walk or drive over to a Walmart or convenience store for contraceptives. I mean, it's not like gas prices are lower now than they have been in almost 9 months. And you don't HAVE to have sex. I've stated this before in the above posts.

 

Unless it's a state school, the government has absolutely zero say in a college's policy regarding this.

 

What doesn't make sense to me is how you can be against abortion, and against homosexuality. One thing homosexuals are never going to have is an abortion.

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Guest Luftwaffe
READ the first post I made in this thread. Especially the parts about taking responsibility for one's actions. Abortion isn't a "Get out of parental responsibilty FREE" card as a birth-control. If you think you're responsibile enough to have sex, you're responsible enough to take care of the baby because of your decision.

 

So you're responsible enough to have a baby, and possibly take care of it, but maybe your economically cant. You are still responsible enough to take care of it, but your money situation won't let you. I guess you could possibly say that you are then not responsible, and that you shouldn't have had sex in the first place. Rape? Condom breaks? What then? I still can't get it into my mind why you want to control other peoples lives.

Edited by Luftwaffe

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Guest OpSic66
Wow...much different crowd here then at YCD for the most part...

 

First, if you are going to rag on President Bush, do some research first and you will find out that he didn't do as bad of a job as most of the country believes!

 

Look up the definition of life..now look up the definition of "Kill"...now try to tell me that abortion isn't murder. Yay, you voted to give women "pro-choice"...the choice to murder a baby that didn't have a choice at all.

Glad to know people have a good idea of how a democracy works. Anyone knowing anything would know what "Checks and Balances" are, and that the governor of a state, or the president does NOT have ultimate power over every aspect of how something is run. IIRC, that would be a MONARCHY, and even then those have exceptions.

 

 

READ the first post I made in this thread. Especially the parts about taking responsibility for one's actions. Abortion isn't a "Get out of parental responsibilty FREE" card as a birth-control. If you think you're responsibile enough to have sex, you're responsible enough to take care of the baby because of your decision.
Now in a perfect world, this would be idea. However not EVER case is the same, and shall reap the same conclusion.

 

I am ALL FOR personal responsibility. As a matter of fact, the reason why the government passes stupid "nanny laws", is due to civilization becoming lazy, uneducated, and non-motivational. Thus "big brother" has to keep watch over everyone.

 

Now that statement aside, a good argument of Pro-Life vs Pro-Choice is. What fricken difference does it make, and why should others who are not DIRECTLY involved and impacted give a rat's rear end about it.

 

Here's my arguement on the Pro-Life/Pro-Choice crap. Do I give a crap about abortion. NO, I do not. However it needs to be respectful of ALL PARTIES involved. A teen using abortion as a way out, of reckless behavior is utter BS. Now someone who is raped, this is a perfectly viable option. Lets face it, being raped is bad enough, but to be forced to carry a ":censored2:" child that is a result of such. The emotional ramifications of this alone, justify the use of abortion.

 

Now another thing to thing of. Sure many women have the kid, then give it up for adoption. No offense, but great, just great. The kid goes into foster care. There's a great happy life. I know a couple of "foster kids". And I'll tell you what, for a good enough majority of them, life just SUCKS. Not to mention in many areas foster care, or "orphane housing" costs the TAX Payers money. Again, just fricken great. If there is not already enough "drain on society" and my wallet via taxes thanks to lazy people who WON'T get a job, lets just keep adding more to the list.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not for strict government run population control... But some common sense on these issues could do a great deal of good.

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So you're responsible enough to have a baby, and possibly take care of it, but maybe your economically cant. You are still responsible enough to take care of it, but your money situation won't let you. I guess you could possibly say that you are then not responsible, and that you shouldn't have had sex in the first place. Rape? Condom breaks? What then? I still can't get it into my mind why you want to control other peoples lives.

 

Making abortion illegal(in most cases) is not controlling people's lives. You don't seem to understand. The USA stands for personal freedoms. This doesnt mean anyone can go around doing whatever they want. The government exists to protect and serve the people, and to do this it has to put limits on certain freedoms and even opinions. Saying outlawing abortion is controlling peoples lives is the same as saying murder is controlling people's lives. Sometimes the government has to put a limit on certain "freedoms"

 

Glad to know people have a good idea of how a democracy works. Anyone knowing anything would know what "Checks and Balances" are, and that the governor of a state, or the president does NOT have ultimate power over every aspect of how something is run. IIRC, that would be a MONARCHY, and even then those have exceptions.

 

The problem is, the President for the next four years is likely to appoint 3 new judges to the Supreme Court, which will affect both abortion and gun rights.

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Also, if you would do your research Bopper, you would realise that the right to bare arms saves more innocent lives then it kills innocent lives. Not to mention fighting against it is COMPLETELY unconstitutional. And you would also notice, if you studied history a little, that if America hadn't gotten soft since WWII we never would have lost a war... I mean, we went from in WWII killing millions of people (outside of the holocost) in the war, to being afraid to kill one civilian from Iraq (Yet you are all for us killing our own babies!!??). We dropped insindiary bombs on cities that may have had no German soldiers at all from what we knew...we killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people to show that we are not a country to be messed with...and I haven't seen Germany shooting at us since. Now look at what happened in Tsumalia several years ago, we sent in soldeirs that couldn't even shoot a man aiming at them unless he squezed his trigger, and they also couldn't shoot at any innocent civilians that protected the enemy...our soldiers where very blessed to get out of that situation alive. Now look at Iraq, Bush and our generals successfully organised this war that killed thousands of terrorists while sparring the lives of thousands of innocents, but you credit him for causing a horrible war...the media is screwing us and we are getting WAY to soft.

 

I never said that I wanted more strict gun laws... and I wrote an AP psychology paper on pretty much that same concept of America getting soft and not being able to show dominance... so I don't know why you are telling me that. My point was that people single out abortion as murder, where murder happens all around us in many other ways as well. People just ignore those.

 

Firstly, war isn't always killing innocent civilians. The point of the wars we participate in is to kill the proverbial 'bad guys' (ie- terrorists, communists, fascists, and all other homocidal/genocidal armed personel). War happens when simply talking doesn't solve anything. Killing senselessly is wrong, I agree. But killing someone who seeks to kill you and your fellow countrymen and your society's way of life is justifiable. Killing a thug who breaks into your house in the middle of the night to steal your money and kill you (and perhaps raping the women in the house) is justifiable because such people are seeking to infringe on your rights to life, liberty, and happiness. Legal gun ownership saves lives. Don't beleive me, look at the statistics. States that adopted carry-concealed permit programs actually saw a DECLINE in crime. Florida was the first state to adopt the 'shall issue' right for a CCW, and as high as their crime rate is now, it was WAY worse before the carry permit program was adopted. Gun control doesn't work because it only affects law-abiding citizens. Criminals will get guns illegally, no matter what laws are. Rather than make it more illegal, throw the judicial book at the defendants who commit crimes with guns and give them harsher setencing after the fact. Cars kill more people a year than guns do in the US, just so you know.

 

I agree, killing some one who poses a threat to my country is not a problem. You are correct about the gun ownership point, so sorry I brought gun rights up. I was wrong, I suppose I have a few things to learn in that regard.

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So you're responsible enough to have a baby, and possibly take care of it, but maybe your economically cant. You are still responsible enough to take care of it, but your money situation won't let you. I guess you could possibly say that you are then not responsible, and that you shouldn't have had sex in the first place. Rape? Condom breaks? What then? I still can't get it into my mind why you want to control other peoples lives.

 

Crimeny, can you people NOT read? I'll repost it AGAIN.

 

First off, downplaying a future human's condition based on anatomical terms is pretty underhanded. "Fetus", "Embryo"; they're all the same in the respect that they are babies in development of being born. Now, I believe abortion should be an option ONLY for three conditions:

 

1) Rape - I agree that no woman should be forced to bear the child of such a lowly creature that would assault her sexually. However, I don't think that waiting several months later to do so isn't right because any woman can claim to have been raped but the evidence would be hard to find at that point (skin under her fingernails, bruises/scratches/cuts from the attack, etc). In the case of rape, I think that a woman should report the incident as soon as she can (after seeking immidiate medical attention first to recover physically and emotionally). And by rape, I mean both unconsentual (being date-raped included but not if she decided to just have a ton of drinks that night) and also statutory (age 17 and below).

 

2) Incest - This one is pretty much self explanitory, however, I only include it for incidents that involve molestation of some sort from a family member (and not just older male x younger female).

 

3) Lethal Childbirth - What I mean by that term (not sure what the short official term would be for it) is when it can be determined some time in the pregnancy that bearing the child (and even by cesarean) will be lethal to the mother. In such cases, though I don't like it, I think it should be an option.

 

Now, I agree with some above members in the conservative stance of individual responsibility. People think you have to have sex/drink/smoke. You DON'T. If you want to be technical, you don't even need schooling to live. Hell, if primitive tribes can survive without technology and barely any clothing, then you need to seriously look at the difference between a 'need' and a 'want'. On the subject of sex, you don't HAVE to pop your cherry at a young age or pre-maritally, or even at all. Virginity isn't a mentally or physcially life-threatening condition. Seriously, what's there to fear? Never having to worry about an STD? Never having to worry about an unplanned pregnancy? Good lord, that's just criminal that you won't have to worry about such conditions because you were reseponsible. I'm a 22 year old virgin (23 in Jan) and I don't give a flip that my 20 year old brother is already doing the horizontal bop with his current girlfriend (and did it with his second too when they were dating) because if he ends up fathering a child with his current girlfriend, I will show no remorse. It was his decision to have sex. He uses condoms, but they aren't 100% effective. Neither are pills, female condoms, and so forth. The only safe sex is no sex, plain and simple. Abstinance isn't a crime, for crying out loud! Yeah, you won't be 'cool', but you also don't ever have to worry about herpes or siring a child.

 

The same applies to drugs, smokes, and alcohol. You don't have to do these things. Aside from a glass of wine I had at my dad's wedding to my stepmom when I was six (I thought it was grape juice), I've never had an alcolic beverage in my life. And you know what? Miraculously, I'm still living! I'm actually a contributing member of society despite that! WOW! Never even taken a drag of a cig or a puff of a cigar. Never done a drug of any sort (never even abused a prescription medication). Why? Not because of the Christian values I was raised on, and not because I'm scared to death of my mother if I were to do such things, but because I paid attention in health class and when my school did the D.A.R.E. programs. I've taken responsibility for myself in regards to drugs, alcohol, and sex. So, to all you people saying that it's unfair that a couple should be foreced to raise a child they can't afford: sorry, charlie, but that's what being an adult means. If you're all about being grown-up because you can have sex now, there's no double standard that says you can back out of your responsibility since you're also an adult with a baby now. If you can't raise the child, give the child up for adoption to a better home. There are countless childless couples (or loving families) that want to adopt an underprivilaged child. If I ever get around to getting married one day, I would like to adopt at least one child and give them the life they wouldn't have had if they stayed with their bioloogical parent(s).

 

Glad to know people have a good idea of how a democracy works. Anyone knowing anything would know what "Checks and Balances" are, and that the governor of a state, or the president does NOT have ultimate power over every aspect of how something is run. IIRC, that would be a MONARCHY, and even then those have exceptions.

 

 

Now in a perfect world, this would be idea. However not EVER case is the same, and shall reap the same conclusion.

 

I am ALL FOR personal responsibility. As a matter of fact, the reason why the government passes stupid "nanny laws", is due to civilization becoming lazy, uneducated, and non-motivational. Thus "big brother" has to keep watch over everyone.

 

Now that statement aside, a good argument of Pro-Life vs Pro-Choice is. What fricken difference does it make, and why should others who are not DIRECTLY involved and impacted give a rat's rear end about it.

 

Here's my arguement on the Pro-Life/Pro-Choice crap. Do I give a crap about abortion. NO, I do not. However it needs to be respectful of ALL PARTIES involved. A teen using abortion as a way out, of reckless behavior is utter BS. Now someone who is raped, this is a perfectly viable option. Lets face it, being raped is bad enough, but to be forced to carry a ":censored2:" child that is a result of such. The emotional ramifications of this alone, justify the use of abortion.

 

Now another thing to thing of. Sure many women have the kid, then give it up for adoption. No offense, but great, just great. The kid goes into foster care. There's a great happy life. I know a couple of "foster kids". And I'll tell you what, for a good enough majority of them, life just SUCKS. Not to mention in many areas foster care, or "orphane housing" costs the TAX Payers money. Again, just fricken great. If there is not already enough "drain on society" and my wallet via taxes thanks to lazy people who WON'T get a job, lets just keep adding more to the list.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not for strict government run population control... But some common sense on these issues could do a great deal of good.

 

Again, re-read the part I said about rape being an exception. As for putting the child up for adoption, I'm all for that as long as it ISN'T through foster care. Giving a child to families that actually want to keep the unwanted baby as a member of the family and NOT just as a foster child is what should be strived for. Sadly, not enough kids are lucky enough for that, I'm just saying that it's a better alternative than killing the child prenatally.

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Again, re-read the part I said about rape being an exception. As for putting the child up for adoption, I'm all for that as long as it ISN'T through foster care. Giving a child to families that actually want to keep the unwanted baby as a member of the family and NOT just as a foster child is what should be strived for. Sadly, not enough kids are lucky enough for that, I'm just saying that it's a better alternative than killing the child prenatally.

 

I did read it, clearly you and I are on the same wavelength. You must feel as if our thoughts are not close enough to agree.

 

 

For the rest of you... I think you folks should start stocking up:

kutcherside.jpg

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