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"wrong" Loadouts (morals Not Misinterpretation)

"Wrong" Loadouts  

242 members have voted

  1. 1. Do loadouts(Such as Taliban, IRA, Nazi, Communist) offend you?

    • Yes
      5
    • No
      196
    • Situational Yes/No(Explain below)
      41
  2. 2. Should we draw the line in airsoft(By banning loadouts such as Taliban, IRA, Nazi, or Commie)?

    • Yes
      6
    • No
      209
    • Situational Yes/ No(Explain below)
      27


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I would say it's situational and it depends on the person. For example, I have no problem with someone wearing accurate Wermacht, Brandenburger or Fallschirmjager kit to a WWII themed game even though that means they're wearing a swastika. Those branches were normal military services and in many cases, those who served were conscripts.

 

I would however, have a problem with someone wearing an SS uniform at the same event. The SS was from the start a political organization, steeped in Nazi ideology and responsible for atrocities on and off the battlefield. I wouldn't tell the the person wear to do it, or make a big deal out of it publicly, but I would not make my usual effort to avoid shooting them in the face. (I'd be in the role of a Jewish partisan, they'd know it was coming.)

 

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There is nothing at all wrong with bearing these loadouts, as long as they are used for simulating game play re-enactments. If they are used to display your political beliefs, such as Nazi or Communist loadouts being worn by real members of such organizations, then I would have a problem with it, however I doubt this would be the case. Such people are usually proud to display their political beliefs and are usually easy to pick out; since they have no problem wearing their colors for their beliefs, they usually don't have an issue telling you about them, which is a dead giveaway. However, I doubt we would see any of these people at at a game, as it would be unwise to show up and start bragging around a swarm of American, Brittish, Austrailian or other players, as most of us are strong patriots for our country and if they actually made it back to the car, they would high tail it out of there fast, never to show up again for fear of their personal safety.

 

Players that show up in enemy gear though are "simulating" the enemy, and this is much different than actually believing in what the uniform represents. If this is the case and you don't like it, I say suck it up or leave. I am tired if having to walk on glass just because someone "may" be offended. If I want to wear a German WWII loadout or Soviet Paratrooper uniform to "simulate" an enemy and you are offended, then too bad. The key word is "simulate" and it does not mean I practice any beliefs the uniform may represent. There is too much sensitivity around being"politically correct" in our society, a statement which I loath and if you are offended by my dress, then you have a problem and need to deal with it. We are playing a milsim game, the key word being game. I grew up during the cold war, when patriotism was at a peak and had many realitives that fought in WWII, Korea and Vietnam and as they all realize it is gameplay and not the real thing, none of them have a problem with it. If they could actually make it to the field without a walker, I am sure they would enjoy getting a chance to engage the enemy, although I might be a bit concerned with the uncle that has Nam flashbacks. I consider these loadouts historical rather than political, which is where the difference lies and if you can do the same, then there should be no issue. If you cannot, then don't bother to show up because we aren't changing outfits just because you don't like it. As long as we keep the political garb out of the picture, such as showing up dressed like Hiltler spawning a short mustache or as Iatola, but rather dress as a standard soldier, I say get over it, move on and have fun playing the game.

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Nightwolf is completely correct. It might offend some people, but it really shouldn't. It's history, deal with it. I don't like announcing what religion I am, sometimes doesn't end up too good. I'll just say I'm NOT a Christian. Anyways, no loadout offends me. Some of them make me fidgety, others make me wanna kick the person, but I don't know. In a game, I'd rather shoot someone in a terrorist loadout or Nazi loadout than someone in an American loadout.

Edited by AEGmaniac

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Same.

And to the OP, not all communists/socialists are Soviet. That's sort of like saying that all Germans are Nazis, to some extent. Pretty offensive.

 

 

So I take it you're communist? We have fought various war against communist regimes, even from its start in Russia. Him saying communist was just a way to lump them all together.

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No, Im not offended, thats the point of airsoft is to kill the enemy, and if your all on the same side side, whos the enemy?

 

 

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Well some people actually do get offended by certain loadouts.

 

"Personally, if someone turned up on a site I was playing on dressed as a provo I'd have to leave or not be responsible for my actions."

 

"In my view an IRA, Taliban, etc. load-out is the same as having a Nazi load-out... Most people don't seem to have a problem with Nazi load-outs (which, BTW, I DO have a problem with) so why an issue with IRA, Taliban, etc.?"

 

I don't see the problem especially with the first guy, he seems to take it to an extreme.

Believe it or not, there's actually quite a few Americans that support the IRA. Primarily in the Northeast(Boston) where there's a heavy Irish population, but if you look at the history behind the conflict in Northern Ireland, you'll see it's not as "clear-cut" as it is concerning the Taliban/Bin Laden/Nazis etc...

BTW, I am in no way inferring I support the IRA...or even Sinn Fein for that matter.. I'm simply pointing somthing out.

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So I take it you're communist? We have fought various war against communist regimes, even from its start in Russia. Him saying communist was just a way to lump them all together.

No, I'm not exactly communist, but generalizations like this just piss me off.

What I'm saying is people SHOULDN'T be lumped together. Don't you get it? Communism and socialism are a legitimate political view. There are plenty of American communists. Sure, we fight against Communist regimes, but not all communists are part of those regimes, and so what I'm saying is not all communists are Soviet. And you're also wrong in the sense that it's not Russian, it's Soviet.

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honestly I never even thought of this as an option, but I haven't shaved in months, and now I REALLY want to dress up as Osama or a taliban terrorist for a game xD

 

I've also looked for airsoft tec-9's since I have a dylan kelbold outfit for a class movie I made one time about the 90s...

 

My current 'loadout' (e.g. what I'm going to buy soon :x) is actually closer to a generic 'terrorist' than anything... imo anything military that's not part of a uniform is what a terrorist would look like. Mismatched stuff, gear + normal clothes, that's what real terrorists look like.

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Airsoft for some is purely MilSim based. These players are the ones who spend tons of money on period correct Loadouts. These guys also often research the heck out of history and are very knowledgeable about the subject matter. As long as these loadouts are used to represent a faction in a MilSim based environment, then I see no reason why they shoudl offend anyone. This comes with a bit of common sense in mind though. Once you leave the MilSim environment, you should prob adjust attire to keep from offending those that atre not in the know. Basically, don't leave an event and go to supermarket in full Nazi loadout to get a gallon of Milk. People will always assume the worst.

 

If for some reason you are an Airsofter that is not too into MilSim and find yourself offended by the loadouts of others, then you should prob find other venues to play at, or pick another sport. Many will telll you jokingly that Airsoft is 90% fashion show and 5% play. The other 5% is chairsofting/Collectors. There is more truth to this than many will care to admit. At your next game, look to see who is having pure fun, and who seems a bit miserable. The kids in T-shirts and Jeans are out there for the fun of it (A lot of the time, not always), while the gear whores in most cases just want to look good.

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Taliban Loadouts- Well accounting that they don't have a real designated "Loadout", someone could put on BDU Uniform, A Shemagh, and a Turban on their head to cool off, and not even know that they resemble a Taliban that we saw with that gear. I don't see the problem, YOU could look like a Mercenary, or something in the process of a Terroristic loadout.

 

Nazi Loadout- Im going to state some Facts and thats it. First, Most Nazi soldiers where drafted, most little to no choice, some did not exactly support the third reich,

many where forced to fight. Doing a Nazi loadout, is good, especially because their equipment and gear was not bad: they where relatively good, and looked good on the battlefield. (correct me if im wrong, but after testimonials from my Grandfather, who was in the Nazi army, I can back up my Facts)

 

 

/End of Discussion>

Edited by airsoftking95

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I, personally, would be offended by anyone who is offended by "offensive" loadouts.

 

 

What I mean is when some white guy who's obviously not Muslim does it just to mock insurgents and to mock Islam. And they're playing in a dense redwood grove.

Why can't a white guy be Muslim?

 

I've also looked for airsoft tec-9's since I have a dylan kelbold outfit for a class movie I made one time about the 90s...

 

Echo 1 is making some.

 

 

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What I mean is when some white guy who's obviously not Muslim does it just to mock insurgents and to mock Islam. And they're playing in a dense redwood grove.

 

 

I'm sorry, this just made me laugh. You do realize that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and in America right? Yeah, good luck picking them out on a city street. Not all are clear cut. Not all middle eastern people are Islamic either, though like Christians here most are forced into it before they can speak.

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If I go to an airsoft game, I expect people to wear what they want, unless it's a game where people have to wear a specific period loadout. I'm never offended by any loadout because I wear what I desire and don't give a flip about what others think because they didn't research or buy it. It's an airsoft game, and a game it should be. But if you're outside the field, it's probably best not to wear stuff like that because you could be a 'suspected' terrorist. The world's not fair, but that's how it works unfortunately, thanks to all these people who want complete security and no privacy.

 

If you're in a ally v axis game, and you want the REAL experience, you should talk like soldiers from that period as well, hang out at posts under spot lights...etc.

 

If you don't like it, you're in the wrong hobby.

 

History cannot be denied. It happened, so we should not prohibit it, pretending that it never existed. It would be like saying that the Holocaust never took place.

Believe it or not, but some do say it never took place...

Edited by Heath

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I said situational on both, although it's mostly related to brandishing Nazi insignia versus Communist, IRA, or insignia of the other factions listed. I'm fine with people trying to replicate German WWII soldiers (I find WWII loadouts to be pretty neat), so I wouldn't be against a Swastika being used in that situation (as it goes with the uniform, and the individual is doing an impression, not spreading an endorsement of the party). However, if it's a modern German loadout, US loadout, or a loadout that doesn't actually have (or "need") the Swastika, I'd prefer if people didn't use it. (Same with other Nazi insignias). Reason being, I figure that someone including it on a different loadout (Nazi armband on a US Marine loadout, for example) would be distasteful and would come off a lot more as an endorsement of that party (or possibly someone insulting a branch of military in a manner that's quite disrespectful).

 

Although, it's generally a bad idea to go out in public [by this, I don't mean the airsoft game, but perhaps the drive over, or something] in a Waffen SS Uniform... really, no matter the reason you're wearing it. It puts people on edge (as, they likely think you're part of the Neo-Nazi movement versus having just left an airsoft game, reenactment, or that you just think it looks prettiful).

 

Personally speaking, I'm not really offended by Communist, or Terrorist, or Nazi loadouts unless the person wearing the stuff is acting like what they're impersonating. But, I can understand some people who would be uncomfortable around such insignia, and if not acting part of the period (or not in a WWII setting scenario), I'd just think it'd be respectful of the insignia-wearer to remove the insignia temporarily. (I don't think they they "have to," but it's just part of being sportsmanlike, IMO).

 

Only time I'd really advocate a "should remove insignia/uniform" in these cases is if they're playing in a game with uniform requirements.

Edited by Feris

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In airsoft most people strive to be as Milsim as possible.

To me Milsim means to most accurately interpret what an actual fighter would wear.

If that means being Heer, SS, Luftwaffe or Soviet at a ww2 Game then so be it. (ive heard of people wanting to ban ww2 german uniforms from ww2 games...Im sure those people have fun playing ww2 ops by them sevles)

If that means being a terrorist or Taliban so be it.

If it means being a soviet or communist what ever.

 

 

The more people get into the part the better vibe there is.

 

I have had people freak out because of some of my load outs and they usually end up making alot of enemy's by complaining like children. No one wants to hear it, the greater good does not care if you are offended. People that are offended by any bad guy or op4 load outs should have their head examined and or go back to playing with a few friends in the wood or never play airsoft again. Obviously one will never dress like an OP4 in public or at a non themed game. If they do....well they might have some issues. But people complaining about Germans, Soviets ect ect ect just need to grow up or find a new sport or group to play with instead of trying to get a ban or anything.

 

 

 

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It's stupid to be offended by ones clothing....Just because someone wears a Dishdasha and wraps a Keffiyeh around their head, doesn't mean they are Taliban....all it means is that they are from the middle east. It's simply the style of clothing that most people wear in said region. Heck, I've seen some of the Taliban wear BDU's before.

 

If there was a crazy killer on the loose who killed my family and he was wearing jeans, is it right for me to be offended by anyone else who wears jeans? No.

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Not at all. Someone has to play the bad guy. Besides, it's awesome to yell/shout in Japanese/German/Arabic during a skirmish, especially if your team mates are the only ones who can understand you (call out positions while sounding threatening) :a-grin: . I agree that people who wear ranks without earning them is more offensive.

Edited by WTFman

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I think if you get offended, that's sad.

 

As time exsists, we have history. You cannot control the future which will later become history whichmeans you can't change the past. Bad things have happened in the history of man. Do people really believe sweeping it under the rug and turning a blind eye will change anything? Some people actually lived and were born when Soviet Russia exsisted. They might call that as home because that is what they grew up with and it might be part of they're culture.

When people judge others by race and sexuality, we condemn them as evil etc. Why should we judge them when they wear a Red Star or Swastika? Even though it represents something bad, once again, bad things happen in the world. Accept it.

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I could care less what people wear ever. I'm not a religious person. When you wear the uniforms in a scenario game it just immerses you even more as to what people felt as they were storming normandy or as people were storming the alamo. It just helps to feel like your really in. If someone came running at you from the alamo with a mis fits t shirt and skinny jeans you think thats not going to throw you off?

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It would be the same as me wearing a Nazi armband in public.

 

That's the exact same as someone wearing a democrat or republican shirt, a confederate flag, or, say, a Christian cross or Star of David on a necklace. If people get offended by it, to hell with them.

 

In the end, airsoft is a game. If someone wants to get all dirty and ragged up and run around screaming let them do it. It's not like the person is putting in blue contacts, dying their hair blonde, goose stepping around in an SS uniform, and setting fire to a certain chosen people of Isreal. People need to calm down. Not everything should be reviewed by other people. Leave it alone. Are those people stabbing you in the shins? No! Leave them alone until they pose a REAL problem, not some metaphorical reference that may be negative in some way.

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As for the IRA, Commies, Ruskies, I don't mind. While I personally think the IRA is pretty cool, I really don't care about the commies and ruskies. I am completely fine with that. But some are a little over the line, like the terrorist loadout. Just a little too far, and also offensive to Muslims if you don't know too much about Muslims. And as the Nazis, as long as they are just poking fun at the, or just acting like they are part of the military like anyone else, it is fine. However, when a guy is chanting Hail Hitler and talking about white supremacy, he should be kicked from the field.

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