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Alex553

Tanaka M24 inconsistent after many upgrades.

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Hi there. I have a Tanaka M24 SWS with various upgrades installed, which has been giving me VERY sad results since the day I got it stock. Its inconsistent as hell... I am shooting at roughly 30-35m (Around 100 feet) yet I can't hit a torso sized target.

 

I always knew Tanakas had bad Hop-Up, thats why after getting my gun I immediately ordered the KA Hop-Up conversion kit, a Promy barrel (555mm 6.03mm) and a NineBall VSR-10 bucking. But to no result. This is what I have done recently to try and solve the problem.

1: Cleaned the barrel.

2: Ordered those new 0.30g Biotech BB's.

3: Converted the gun to HPA (Had all the stuff lying around).

4: Got a new bucking (Same type as last one)

5: Cleaned the bucking because before it was converted to HPA, the gas I used had APS3 mixed in it.

6: Removed the original metal piece that presses against the bucking and made a new one from plastic with a small bit filed out in the middle to create a H-nub effect (This gave me better results)

7: Filled up every space that caused the barrel or Hop unit to move or wobble using tape, Teflon and very small O-rings... The inner barrel floats almost dead-center in the outer barrel with the end cap removed.

 

So yeah, this is REALLY starting to get depressing... I'm being surprisingly calm under the situation. So I thought that if this forum has its own Tanaka rifles sub-forum, there might be some veteran Tanaka troubleshooters that could help me. I would really appreciate it.

 

Thanks

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Hi Alex!

 

Have you changed anything in the Bolt? Changed the Striker Spring?

Check if the 'Pin' holding the Striker Spring is screwed in all the way and that the tiny allen screw in the Cocking Piece is tight. This little allen screw holds the 'Pin' holing the Striker Spring in Place doesn't loosen up after a while. So make sure it's well tightened in!

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Hi Alex!

 

Have you changed anything in the Bolt? Changed the Striker Spring?

Check if the 'Pin' holding the Striker Spring is screwed in all the way and that the tiny allen screw in the Cocking Piece is tight. This little allen screw holds the 'Pin' holing the Striker Spring in Place doesn't loosen up after a while. So make sure it's well tightened in!

Hi, this was actually the very first problem I encountered when I got the gun. The small screw has been gone for awhile, probably fell out during outdoor testing which caused that 'pin' to loosen and loosen until it came in contact with the big PCS screw, causing the the gun to simply "click" wen fired.

 

I solved that by screwing that 'pin' back in with a good amount of Locktite since the original small screw was gone. It has been holding firmly to this day.

 

I actually helped out another person on a different forum who had this problem^^ But thanks for the quick response and input!

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What does your shots look like without any hop up? How fast are you shooting?

Without Hop-Up they go pretty straight and then nosedive. I just tested its fps with a MadBull hand held meter, the results differed from 460 to about 560 with 0.25g BB's because I was out of 0.20's for fps testing. So I'm pretty sure my meter is broke since a difference of about 100 fps using HPA is pretty much impossible.

 

So I'm either thinking it still has to do with the Hop, OR I'm really losing A LOT of pressure at some point...

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Without Hop-Up they go pretty straight and then nosedive. I just tested its fps with a MadBull hand held meter, the results differed from 460 to about 560 with 0.25g BB's because I was out of 0.20's for fps testing. So I'm pretty sure my meter is broke since a difference of about 100 fps using HPA is pretty much impossible.

 

So I'm either thinking it still has to do with the Hop, OR I'm really losing A LOT of pressure at some point...

 

I think you just found your problem. Even though a HPA setup is consistent, if the rest of the gas route parts are not then your shots will be VERY inconsistent just as you stated. Here are few things you can get to achieve consistency through out the gas system:

G&G Knock Arm & Plunge Set

G&G Rubber Set

G&G Gas Route Connector Spring

 

You can find those parts at airsoft gi. This will probably fix your problem.

You can learn a few things about how to achive consistency with the Tanaka's here. Link

Edited by rdjorge

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You might want to check that the new nozzle you installed is actually making into the hopup rubber. Use a marker to color the nozzle, then close the bolt, and check to see if the coloration was wiped off. It will also give you a good idea of how far the nozzle enters.

 

You did install the new nozzle right?

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I think you just found your problem. Even though a HPA setup is consistent, if the rest of the gas route parts are not then your shots will be VERY inconsistent just as you stated. Here are few things you can get to achieve consistency through out the gas system:

G&G Knock Arm & Plunge Set

G&G Rubber Set

G&G Gas Route Connector Spring

 

You can find those parts at airsoft gi. This will probably fix your problem.

You can learn a few things about how to achive consistency with the Tanaka's here. Link

Hmm the rubber thats under the bolt that contacts the gas route connector does look rather worn. Heck, I'll just order it and see were it gets me. I need a new impact plate for the magazine anyway. I don't need the knock arm and plunge set yet, they are still fine (Think the knock arm is steel). Is that new gas route connector spring stronger then the original one?

 

 

You might want to check that the new nozzle you installed is actually making into the hopup rubber. Use a marker to color the nozzle, then close the bolt, and check to see if the coloration was wiped off. It will also give you a good idea of how far the nozzle enters.

 

You did install the new nozzle right?

Yes I did. The test with the marker wasn't so easy because its ink didn't really stick to the metal, but after a few tries it enters about 5mm into the Hop-Up rubber.

 

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Hmm the rubber thats under the bolt that contacts the gas route connector does look rather worn. Heck, I'll just order it and see were it gets me. I need a new impact plate for the magazine anyway. I don't need the knock arm and plunge set yet, they are still fine (Think the knock arm is steel). Is that new gas route connector spring stronger then the original one?

 

 

Yes I did. The test with the marker wasn't so easy because its ink didn't really stick to the metal, but after a few tries it enters about 5mm into the Hop-Up rubber.

 

Yes, the new gas route connector spring is stiffer than the original one. The knock arm and plunge set will replace your worn impact plate. It actually eliminates the impact plate. I would also recommend a new valve knocker.

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Yes, the new gas route connector spring is stiffer than the original one. The knock arm and plunge set will replace your worn impact plate. It actually eliminates the impact plate. I would also recommend a new valve knocker.
Eliminates it? Ok, I think I just visualized how that would work. It would look like a genuine GBB mag right? But unfortunately I just ordered my parts a few hours ago... Damn if would have know that. My valve knocker is still in perfect condition. Right now I'm just hellbent on making a 500$ toy gun shoot straight XD If I get her to shoot like it should, then I'll look into the smaller parts.

 

Thanks for all the help so far. I really appreciate it.

 

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Eliminates it? Ok, I think I just visualized how that would work. It would look like a genuine GBB mag right? But unfortunately I just ordered my parts a few hours ago... Damn if would have know that. My valve knocker is still in perfect condition. Right now I'm just hellbent on making a 500$ toy gun shoot straight XD If I get her to shoot like it should, then I'll look into the smaller parts.

 

Thanks for all the help so far. I really appreciate it.

 

Yeah...I know how that feels! You will be fine with just replacing the plate.

Right now I am making a new nub for the KA kit. The stock flat piece sucks...!

Edited by rdjorge

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Yeah...I know how that feels! You will be fine with just replacing the plate.

Right now I am making a new nub for the KA kit. The stock flat piece sucks...!

Yeah I made a new one myself out of a piece of hard plastic. And even with the large pressure loss, I saw visible improvement over the stock piece.

 

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Hey, I did forget one minor thing that might be the cause. Have you checked the bb detent on the magazine? It's an oft forgotten about issue that can cause serious headaches. Sometimes when loading a bb the cup-like grooves where the bb's are held in the U area can be sharp and dent a bb when it's stripping them off of the magazine. Accuracy will take a nose dive if this happens. If the problem persists then fire a few bb's into a wad of cloth or something that won't dent the bb too much and examine it. If you've got some dents in the bb then that would be your problem.

 

The fix is to polish the inner edges where the bb's are held.

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Hey, I did forget one minor thing that might be the cause. Have you checked the bb detent on the magazine? It's an oft forgotten about issue that can cause serious headaches. Sometimes when loading a bb the cup-like grooves where the bb's are held in the U area can be sharp and dent a bb when it's stripping them off of the magazine. Accuracy will take a nose dive if this happens. If the problem persists then fire a few bb's into a wad of cloth or something that won't dent the bb too much and examine it. If you've got some dents in the bb then that would be your problem.

 

The fix is to polish the inner edges where the bb's are held.

 

Good point Brainplay. That was one of the first things I did to my magazine. Polished it really good with a dremel fine buffer.

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Hey, I did forget one minor thing that might be the cause. Have you checked the bb detent on the magazine? It's an oft forgotten about issue that can cause serious headaches. Sometimes when loading a bb the cup-like grooves where the bb's are held in the U area can be sharp and dent a bb when it's stripping them off of the magazine. Accuracy will take a nose dive if this happens. If the problem persists then fire a few bb's into a wad of cloth or something that won't dent the bb too much and examine it. If you've got some dents in the bb then that would be your problem.

 

The fix is to polish the inner edges where the bb's are held.

Well I was shooting Biotech 0.27g BBB's with it, those are kinda hard to damage. But I recently stepped over the their 0.30g BBB's which are rather soft. BUT, I just installed all the parts I ordered (Impact plate, gas route spring and rubber set) and did a quick fps test... The results were promising! From around 100 fps difference before the new parts, to now a 10 fps difference after installing them! Now I just need to find some time to test shoot it outside.

 

But its looking good.

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Good! I`m glad the problem is fixed! I like the biovals BBB .27g (they are actually made of glass!!!). Very awesome for shots under 300ft! Now just set your hop up and you are set!

Well I shot it today for the first time after the new parts were installed. And I have to say that I'm a little bit sketchy about the results... One of the things that drives me mad about were I live is that its windy almost all the time here! I was rather surprised to see how just a little bit off wind can disturb the flight path off a 0.30g BB!

 

But, maybe I'm just expecting too much from this gun. I knew that I would NEVER reach out to 300ft no matter what I would do. I would have been MORE than happy with 230ft torso hits... So here comes the big question: If you look at all the upgrades that are in this rifle, how far do you say it SHOULD reach? In the right conditions and with no technical problems.

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Well I shot it today for the first time after the new parts were installed. And I have to say that I'm a little bit sketchy about the results... One of the things that drives me mad about were I live is that its windy almost all the time here! I was rather surprised to see how just a little bit off wind can disturb the flight path off a 0.30g BB!

 

But, maybe I'm just expecting too much from this gun. I knew that I would NEVER reach out to 300ft no matter what I would do. I would have been MORE than happy with 230ft torso hits... So here comes the big question: If you look at all the upgrades that are in this rifle, how far do you say it SHOULD reach? In the right conditions and with no technical problems.

 

I have shot my Tanaka (Stock) up to 250ft with a little bit of over hop. 200ft was right on. Switch your ammo to some .40g if the wind is always bad there. .40g will shoot slower, but it will go further and get to 200ft faster than a .30g would. It will also be less affected by the wind. If you practice enough, you can tilt the gun sideways towards the wind and instead of the hop up hop the bb up, it will hop it sideways against the wind. On the .40g, the cheapest place I have found them is at Trinity Airsoft .19.95 a bottle of 2000.

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I have shot my Tanaka (Stock) up to 250ft with a little bit of over hop. 200ft was right on. Switch your ammo to some .40g if the wind is always bad there. .40g will shoot slower, but it will go further and get to 200ft faster than a .30g would. It will also be less affected by the wind. If you practice enough, you can tilt the gun sideways towards the wind and instead of the hop up hop the bb up, it will hop it sideways against the wind. On the .40g, the cheapest place I have found them is at Trinity Airsoft .19.95 a bottle of 2000.
Its windy on the test site, on the skirm site it depends on the weather. We are only allowed to use bio BB's during outdoor skirms, and the 0.30g BB's from Bioval are the best option for me now.

 

I just measured the distance from were my shots were taken, at about 209 feet. Thats even LESS than your STOCK rifle! Off ALL the Tanaka M700 rifles out there, I just had to buy the biggest money pit of them all... I would have been cheaper off buying a completely new gun.

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250ft was with OVER hop and using .40g bb using propane, which I am guessing around 600fps with .2g. You haven't said if you are limited to a certain fps. What is the max fps you can use? If what you are shooting now is the max, then 209ft will be your max range. What is limiting your range is your fps, not your Tanaka. Turn your psi up and see that bb fly past 300ft... :a-wink:

Edited by rdjorge

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250ft was with OVER hop and using .40g bb using propane, which I am guessing around 600fps with .2g. You haven't said if you are limited to a certain fps. What is the max fps you can use? If what you are shooting now is the max, then 209ft will be your max range. What is limiting your range is your fps, not your Tanaka. Turn your psi up and see that bb fly past 300ft... :a-wink:

I don't know how fast its shooting right now. It was shooting a bit too hot when I used the chrono to measure it, so I lowered the Psi to 110. THEN I went testing outside not knowing the current fps. Anyhow, our fields have a 500fps limit for bolt action sniper rifles. Your probably right, 209 will probably be my max range.

 

And it was windy anyway, so I'm guessing it will be more accurate when its windstill^^

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