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Snipestruck

Need expert with KJW M700 upgrades!

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Hey guys,

 

I was considering getting a KJW M700, and happened upon this topic- http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/Mods-Kjw...se-t140079.html

 

It shows the many upgrades that are performable to the gun, and their effects. After reading and hearing that the stock M700 is a pretty good rifle, and if you get inside and manage to tinker with a few things, as well as adding on a few upgrades, the M700 can become unbelievable, I immediately I decided I had to get one.

 

I have yet not purchased the gun, and do not have the confidence to go screwing around on the internals of an airsoft gun, so I am posting here in the attempt of having an expert on KJW M700s being able to do the "free mods" listed in the topic above as well as adding a inner barrel by EdGi custom (6.01 or 6.00mm), and adding KA hopup bucking. Might also add a striker spring to that list, whatever makes it worth the cost. You should not have to pay a cent to do the mods I require, and I will compensate with $ for labor done :a-salute:

 

TI would prefer nodnarb do it himself, but I have no manner of contacting him, as he has not visited the forums lately. Please let me know if you are available ;)

 

Thanks!

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If he falls through I'll do it.

 

Only been a gun tech for 12 years, think I'm qualified enough XD

Have you worked with an M700? Or is it similar to all the other guns you have worked on? I was looking for someone who is specifically an expert on M700s, but if you are a pro with guns and know you can do the job extremely well Ill consider you ;)

I just want the best M700 possible.

 

Also do you know what the best .4s are for a gun shooting 500+fps? I considered madbull, but apparently they have residue on them, and they are also hard to trace(can wash residue off with hot water, but still tracing problem). Matrix sell 2000 for 18$ which is nice, and they are orange, easy to trace, but havent heard many good comments about matrix. Considering Biovals .40g bbs, but probably very expensive.

Edited by Snipestruck

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After reading and hearing that the stock M700 is a pretty good rifle, and if you get inside and manage to tinker with a few things, as well as adding on a few upgrades, the M700 can become unbelievable, I immediately I decided I had to get one.

This is wrong. KJW 700 is a total Piece of ---- without upgrades. The Tanaka rifles are the amazing ones.

 

 

Also do you know what the best .4s are for a gun shooting 500+fps? I considered madbull, but apparently they have residue on them, and they are also hard to trace(can wash residue off with hot water, but still tracing problem). Matrix sell 2000 for 18$ which is nice, and they are orange, easy to trace, but havent heard many good comments about matrix. Considering Biovals .40g bbs, but probably very expensive.

 

I must tell you- if you want a good sniper rifle spend some money on BBs. MATRIX= Bottom of the Line! Matrix are fine if you just want to hose but they are not for snipers. Biovals are probably best. If you want a WOW 700 then be prepared to break the bank. I think you want is a Right Hook Fabrication, these cost 2 grand+. That kind of precision will require a tanaka and some serious skill of your own or paid for.

 

I hope you're not offended by this but I wanted to leave an impression. This kind of thing is not easy for anybody.

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I must tell you- if you want a good sniper rifle spend some money on BBs. MATRIX= Bottom of the Line! Matrix are fine if you just want to hose but they are not for snipers. Biovals are probably best. If you want a WOW 700 then be prepared to break the bank. I think you want is a Right Hook Fabrication, these cost 2 grand+. That kind of precision will require a tanaka and some serious skill of your own or paid for.

 

I hope you're not offended by this but I wanted to leave an impression. This kind of thing is not easy for anybody.

 

What are you basing the "m700 sucks non upgraded" thought off of? They shoot 500fps+ stock, and are rather accurate. I have seen them be used. They also have killer reviews on airsoftgi, and are in the top 10 guns sold. Besides that point, like I said, I do want mine upgraded quite a bit, both tinkered with and modified with upgrades. Nodnarb was able to get his M700 efficiency to 300ft+ accuracy with his modifications.

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That kind of precision will require a tanaka and some serious skill of your own or paid for.

 

The more you upgrade the less Tanaka brings to the table. Since the removal of the PCS system, it's become an overrated gun. It will beat a KJW hands down when both are stock. That gap quickly closes after the first barrel change. The upgrade parts bring both guns to a higher spec pretty fast as there aren't that many parts to begin with compared to a spring rifle. If he's going to have someone work on a gun professionally then the KJW is a better platform. Both Bnoji and Righthook Fabrications have used them before as a modifying base. It saves an extra $200-$300 rather than buying the name brand Tanaka which you'll gutting the internals anyway.

 

Oh and as to killer reviews at airsoftgi. Remember that their version of "good to go" and our version of "good to go" is extremely different. They want to sell a gun that works and can hit a man sized target at 100ft. We want to hit a man sized target at 300ft consistently.

Edited by Brainplay

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Have you worked with an M700? Or is it similar to all the other guns you have worked on? I was looking for someone who is specifically an expert on M700s, but if you are a pro with guns and know you can do the job extremely well Ill consider you ;)

I just want the best M700 possible.

 

Also do you know what the best .4s are for a gun shooting 500+fps? I considered madbull, but apparently they have residue on them, and they are also hard to trace(can wash residue off with hot water, but still tracing problem). Matrix sell 2000 for 18$ which is nice, and they are orange, easy to trace, but havent heard many good comments about matrix. Considering Biovals .40g bbs, but probably very expensive.

 

An expert in m700s? really dude, lol. They aren't exactly jaguars like My Rifle

 

Tanaka is better, period, just overall everything is more exact and professionally made, you will get better results with one. KJW's can be setup to shoot pretty well though.

 

Real question is, why do you want to use .4's? Have you actually fired ammo through a rifle that you don't own yet, and are ready to base your ammo decision on some arbitrary concept that heavier/more power is better always? (its not)

 

I only use supergrandmasters, have been thinking of making the switch to bbbmax .29's though due to the rarity and expense of sgms' lately, they seem to be reasonably good and come about 4-5 times cheaper.

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An expert in m700s? really dude, lol. They aren't exactly jaguars like My Rifle

 

Tanaka is better, period, just overall everything is more exact and professionally made, you will get better results with one. KJW's can be setup to shoot pretty well though.

 

Real question is, why do you want to use .4's? Have you actually fired ammo through a rifle that you don't own yet, and are ready to base your ammo decision on some arbitrary concept that heavier/more power is better always? (its not)

 

I only use supergrandmasters, have been thinking of making the switch to bbbmax .29's though due to the rarity and expense of sgms' lately, they seem to be reasonably good and come about 4-5 times cheaper.

 

Ive fired .3s through my 435fps rifle, and since 500+fps is more fps, id want heavier bbs to compensate for that power, plus for a straighter path. Thats what they were made for, and why I would use them.

Edited by Snipestruck

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Hey it seems that the upgrades you want to do are all very easy as I have done them myself. I wouldn't want to do the upgrades on another person's rifle because I wouldn't want to screw anything up but I could surely help you with any questions you have. I might even be willing to post an upgrade video on youtube if it would help.

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I am basing my statemeant on the fact that when I first go my kjw 700 I had to empty a mag to hit someone at 100ft, I had major issues with mag leakage. I don't like how the KJW 700 was made, if it came with half the issues it did, I'd be fine with it.

 

But Brainplay has a point, if you don't plan on using the gun without upgrading its guts out then the kjw is very attractive. Just want to put it out there- I suspect reviews on retailers sites are paid for.

 

Bioval .27 vs Madbull .43

 

Bioval's bbs are reliable- they just about never have fliers.

 

Madbull's are usually more accurate but have more fliers.

 

Maruzen SGMs are no longer in production.

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Really? I had better horde my SGM's then. lol.

Biovols are pretty good, I got a handful of them and can attest to their quality.

 

The quality you are speaking of is consistency, which is close to accuracy but not quite.

The main advantage of lighter bb's is it is far easier to actually hit someone with them during a game, while you might sacrifice some ultimate range, at 150ft or so they get there so fast your target has no time to duck back into cover, its easier to hit people on the move, they are harder to track back to the source, ect. ect.

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Bioval's bbs are reliable- they just about never have fliers.

 

Madbull's are usually more accurate but have more fliers.

 

That's pretty much it right there. We just need the Bioval consistency with the Madbull weight. I'm expecting some Bioval heavy BBs within the next 1-2 weeks. I'll put some through a 6.01mm first (it's already installed) and then we'll test again with 5.98mm (ideal for the Bioval .3g and hopefully the heavies also).

 

As inconsistent as Madbull .4g have been, I still get better results at long range with the heavier weight. I can't wait to try the Biovals. Lighter BBs may end up on target quicker at 150ft, but that's still within MED for some people.

 

There's really nothing complex about either the STAR/ARES or Tanaka/KJW designs.

 

If you're upgrading anyway, you can get the same results from a KJW as you can with Tanaka.

Edited by bnoji

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I must tell you- if you want a good sniper rifle spend some money on BBs. MATRIX= Bottom of the Line! Matrix are fine if you just want to hose but they are not for snipers. Biovals are probably best.
While I've heard that Matrix BBs are basically just whatever BBs they buy in bulk and repackage, I don't recall many bright orange heavyweight BBs being produced by other companies. The only comparable ones I've seen would be the .43s at AONW and awhile ago, I think I saw some orange heavies on some European site. How do you know that the orange ones are just as bad as the rest of their BBs or are you just assuming that they are? I'm not really sure why I didn't add a pack of them to my last order from Evike (already receiving free shipping) because I have several other of the heavyweight BBs (Madbull, WE, BBKing, Bioval, SGM, Goldenball, etc) that I'd want to compare them to.

 

 

Real question is, why do you want to use .4's? Have you actually fired ammo through a rifle that you don't own yet, and are ready to base your ammo decision on some arbitrary concept that heavier/more power is better always? (its not)
Actually, in gas guns, it might be useful to use heavier BBs, even if they aren't quite the same quality. I've seen in my Well AW338 a 30-50% increase in muzzle energy by using heavier BBs in basic testing. This is jumping from like 3.2J with a .20g up to 3.5J with a .27g up to over 4.5J with a .43g. And, with a tightbore, I'd imagine those increase would be even more prominent. I'm actually doing some final testing on my Well with the stock barrel before installing the tightbore I got for it. So, while I can't compare how a 530fps .27g Bioval (3.5J) would compare to a 480fps .43g Madbull (4.5J, since that is what I happened to have been testing with, rather than a .40g), I have to imagine the heavier BB could actually give better results purely based on the energy. And, given that all my testing so far has been with the same gun without any changes, using a heavier BB in a long-barreled gas gun is (in my experience) like upgrading the gun to shoot with a significantly higher velocity, except that you don't need to upgrade any parts. Maybe I'm wrong, but with higher power, doesn't that generally mean you can get more range (especially with a 50% increase), meaning that for some of those ranges below your maximum range, you might be getting equal or better accuracy?

 

 

Maruzen SGMs are no longer in production.

Is this a really recent thing? I've seen SGMs going out of stock at places fairly recently, but then later coming back in stock.

 

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I have a few boxes of SGMs' saved, but I'm not too concerned if they're out of production. IMO, the Bioval .27g perform just as well even with slightly less mass.

 

Just got a bag of Bioval .4g this week. I planned on shooting them a little this weekend but winds are up and we have a tornado watch.

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Just got a bag of Bioval .4g this week. I planned on shooting them a little this weekend but winds are up and we have a tornado watch.

 

Would be great if you could post your results here after testing. I'm also thinking about ordering a bag of these bb's.

I'm expecting them to outperform the madbulls.

 

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Actually, in gas guns, it might be useful to use heavier BBs, even if they aren't quite the same quality. I've seen in my Well AW338 a 30-50% increase in muzzle energy by using heavier BBs in basic testing. This is jumping from like 3.2J with a .20g up to 3.5J with a .27g up to over 4.5J with a .43g. And, with a tightbore, I'd imagine those increase would be even more prominent. I'm actually doing some final testing on my Well with the stock barrel before installing the tightbore I got for it. So, while I can't compare how a 530fps .27g Bioval (3.5J) would compare to a 480fps .43g Madbull (4.5J, since that is what I happened to have been testing with, rather than a .40g), I have to imagine the heavier BB could actually give better results purely based on the energy. And, given that all my testing so far has been with the same gun without any changes, using a heavier BB in a long-barreled gas gun is (in my experience) like upgrading the gun to shoot with a significantly higher velocity, except that you don't need to upgrade any parts. Maybe I'm wrong, but with higher power, doesn't that generally mean you can get more range (especially with a 50% increase), meaning that for some of those ranges below your maximum range, you might be getting equal or better accuracy?

 

Your talking to the person that pioneered the "gas guns get more energy as bb weight increases" a handfull of years ago over on arnies. an intelligent field owner is going to test your gun, with the weight you are using, with the hopup off, and then ban you for trying to hurt someone if you try and crono with .2's and then use .4's. Its the same garbage that BV gun users used to try and do in order to exploit the imaginary LRB range advantage. Field insurance only works if you are engaging eachother within set parameters, since you are not within said parameters you arent covered and anyone you shoot could sue the field owner. Limits aren't set as a competition they are set for a reason, most of which are liability.

 

More power =/= more range or accuracy, you want to use the BB weight that ends up working better in your gun, for you.

I tend to err towards lighter bb's because I am 100% confident in myself and my rifles ability to hit a target at any range, but am not 100% confident in that target not doing something like suddenly go prone or moving, so I want the bb to get there as fast as possible. Given the J limit at my field the easiest way of doing that is finding the lightest ammo that still performs.

 

Am I costing myself the ability to engage people at stupidly far ranges that I wouldn't want to anyway because I'm only going to cause one or two casualties? Maybe. Am I absurdly more deadly if I take an extra 10 seconds to crawl closer before firing? you bet.

 

I swear, if someone released .6's, all the new snipers would be wanting to use them, if someone released 2g bb's they would be using them. Try things out and use what actually works don't pick something arbitrary and stick with it for no reason besides fuzzy math.

Edited by TDS

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Guest CheeseWiz

I have a pre-built one I would be willing to sell you.

 

It has a madbull tightbore, custom hopup and countless diy mods, the only problem is that the bolt has become worn down, you can get a new one from evike for $35, and it would be a drop-in part.

 

Comes with 2 magazines, does $200 sound good to you?

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...I want the bb to get there as fast as possible...

 

Actually a heavier bb will get to the target faster at distances of 200ft and up. Even if the lighter bb (ex: .30g compared to .40g) has a higher fps. The lighter bb will have a higher velocity at first but will loose its momentum quicker. The heavier bb will loose its velocity at a slower rate and carry its momentum longer.

 

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Actually a heavier bb will get to the target faster at distances of 200ft and up. Even if the lighter bb (ex: .30g compared to .40g) has a higher fps. The lighter bb will have a higher velocity at first but will loose its momentum quicker. The heavier bb will loose its velocity at a slower rate and carry its momentum longer.

 

In fuzzy math world, yes, in actual practice, no. It has alot less to do with momentum and more to do with more air resistance for a faster moving projectile.

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Heavier bbs will carry more momentum against air resistance but... The surface of the bb also takes into account. A smoother bb will have less resistance than one with a dimple.Ultra heavies tend to be lower quality surface than lighter(minus bbbrex) Biovals/SGMs.Harder bbs won't be damaged as easily as soft ones. Bb material also makes a difference(microscopic bumps) along with humidity/dust and air composition. The extra hop needed for a heavier bb could make it move slower or make it more stable in flight and therefor faster. Polished vs Unpolished barrels. Aiming up/down. Power fluctuations. Dirty/ clean barrel. Movement of the barrel during shot. Vibration. Air seal fluctuations. And many more variables apply to bb speed.

 

In short you would have to race bbs or get a wind tunnel test to find out which is really faster. I doubt the difference between the two would be more than .2 seconds. A fidgeting target is just not going to give you a good shot, no matter if you bb is 10% faster than the other guy's. Lets face it this is just too touchy to figure out in front of a computer.

 

 

Just try out Madbull ultra heavies and Bioval bbs and see which you like.

Edited by The Last Mohawk

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Physics... Not just fuzzy math. If there was no resistance, both would reach its target at the same time. With air resistance, the lighter bb will be "stopped" first. Both bb`s are 6mm and will have the same air resistance affecting them. That is why it works for 200ft + distances. Remember that this comparison is being made between a .30g and .40g bb being shot by the same gun with no fps adjustments for the .40g under 550 fps with .2g bb. Spring or gas.

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Both bb`s are 6mm and will have the same air resistance affecting them.

But the faster moving one has to fight more, because it's going faster. Also if you are going into gas and spring differences like you do the next paragraph, gas guns

 

Spring or gas.

not true, we've already been over these two types of guns firing completely differently.

 

a target 300ft away

well we were talking about 200ft.

 

I would /never/ fire at anyone at 300ft, unless there were 299ft of open plain between me and my target that I couldn't cross and I had to start shooting people /right now/. I might take shots at retreating enemies after I engaged them at that range, but wholesale engagement at that range just gives away the fact your prey is being hunted. As soon as they know they are being fired on from a certain vector and it takes a full 1-2s for your round to get there, you aren't hitting anybody, my quailty of opponent may be different from yours however.

I'm confident in my ability to hide, engaging at 100-150ft and dropping 2-4 people before they have any idea what is going on and then being in position to pick off more if they retreat is what I do, either way I caused a big enough disruption that I am doing my job.

I don't sit in one spot and try to pick people off at extreme range, I don't "defend" anything, I go hunt.

 

If you were reading, Im not advocating that lighter bb's are better, I'm advocating not defaulting to the heaviest round you can get your hands on because they are 'better' , because they aren't. I've gotten the .29 / .3 range to perform at extreme ranges, it was just a matter of tuning the gun and getting a more stable shot. Don't disregard things because they don't work for /you/. Like I said, for /me/ I found the heavier rounds to be too slow to be usable, how I use them.

 

Try everything, keep what works for you. Not trying things or pigeonholing into something that doesn't work is what makes bad snipers bad.

Edited by TDS

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When I said both gas and spring guns, I meant that for both guns what I said is true. In other words, whatever fps would keep you within field limits. It was never said that they are the same.

 

My point has been that if you are going to engage targets at a distance of 200ft +, you will benefit from using heavier bb`s. You are engaging at 100-150ft. Any AEG would light you up at this distance... Good luck!

 

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