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mohamadawg

need a cheap hpa rig

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Hey I've been upgrading my kjw m700 and right now the most important thing would be an hpa or Co2 rig. Most of them seem too expensive. Are there any rigs that are somewhat cheap. I've heard that hpa is usually cheaper and I'm fine with carrying an hpa tank so that's not a problem. Any suggestions? I may be willing to buy a used one.

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A C02 rig is a cheaper alternative to hpa without sacrificing much performance, if any at all. Cheaper still is regulated propane but this has a power cap slightly lower than unregulated propane. I suggest you put good money down now for an aka regulator, they are supposed to be the best at low pressure, so you don't waste money on a cheap one and have to swap it out later. While this may be the best thing you can do for your rifle it is also the most expensive.

 

Propane to Regulator adaptor

Look for one of my posts about halfway down the page.

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They are expensive because they are over engineered, even a small c02 or HPA canister holds about a hundred times more energy than it would take to kill you.

 

If you go the cheap way and go c02 be prepared to rebuy everything if liquid gets into your regulator and destroys it. If you go capsule-based c02 you are better off with green gas.

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TDS, do you actually have a regulator or are you just blowing smoke? Green gas is just about the worst kind of gas you can use in a sniper rifle, anything is better. I use a 12 oz tank and a CP regulator and have no issues with liquid causing havoc. I do hear that some cheaper regs cannot take CO2. All you would need to replace if that does happen would be your O-rings, 2 bucks for a set of 10 o-rings.

 

Please don't post to look smart, misinformation is a pain in the bum, intentional or accidental.

Edited by The Last Mohawk

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So any suggestions on a cheap rig. I don't want to end up with a rig that needs replacements all the time. If you know how to use this regulated propane I'd like to know. Tell me what I would need for this rig.

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TDS, do you actually have a regulator or are you just blowing smoke? Green gas is just about the worst kind of gas you can use in a sniper rifle, anything is better. I use a 12 oz tank and a CP regulator and have no issues with liquid causing havoc. I do hear that some cheaper regs cannot take CO2. All you would need to replace if that does happen would be your O-rings, 2 bucks for a set of 10 o-rings.

 

Please don't post to look smart, misinformation is a pain in the bum, intentional or accidental.

 

I have owned dozens of classics, if liquid gets into the regulator it will break the springs inside your gauge at minimium, at maximium it will freeze and chip the diaphragm that makes your regulator work, this is reasonably common in cheap regulators as the diaphragm is designed to fail at a particular psi rather than explode. If he runs multiple regulators like I do (unlikely because he is horrified at the cost of a proper system) this is a negligible risk.

 

also 12g/20g capsules, which are what I was commenting on if you read, are worse than Green gas if you have an extremely well setup gun, as capsules do not contain liquid c02 the pressure drops slightly with each shot, not the case for green gas/propane.

 

1. read

2. comprehend

3. reply

 

Don't pick a fight you will not possibly win.

 

To do this /right/ you need to decide on what gas you want, get a primary and smaller secondary regulator, bottle, plumbing, tube, QD connectors, ect. ect. There's no way of doing it /right/ and cheaply, there's doing it poorly and cheaply sure.

There is a wealth of information on how to do external rigs /right/ at classicairsoft.net

Edited by TDS

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The older poppet style regulators like the Palmers are the only ones still susceptable to that and flushing enough liquid Co2 . The newer washer style spring stacks are pretty much impervious to this. The valve setup and thickness of the inverted washers will act as another expansion chamber which was a needed design benchmark as liquid Co2 getting inside your Automag would tear up the rear valve. You have to fully flush the entire regulator before any of that can happen, and it's not easy to do that. Even with a weaker Palmers stabilizer.

 

Well first, 12grs do in fact contain liquid Co2. Shake them a bit and you'll hear it. They just aren't filled to 75% like a larger tank is at a field. 12gr Co2 setups would require a set of extreme circumstances to get a tiny fleck of liquid Co2 inside of a reg in the first place. The puncture valve is tiny. Liquid Co2 whose viscosity is thicker than water has an incredibly tough time getting past that point. Then it's exposed to the container cap and connecting tube between the reg and the container which in itself will act as an expansion chamber which will handle any tiny bead which happens to get through the puncture valve. To date, no one has ever reported of a failure like this on several major boards....ever.

 

You comments on Co2 vs. Green Gas are a bit confusing. I believe you're getting Co2 and Green Gas confused here.

 

Co2 operates at 850psi naturally. It doesn't matter what temperature it is or how many shots are fired. The operating range is not going to drop to 100psi. Even in snow and ice the operating temperature is still in the 500psi range. Since the regulator is doing all of the work, it's not going to fluctuate based on the minuscule changes in psi in the Co2 container. Green gas on the other hand is not regulated. Every shot fired using it is subject to Boyles law which is where the container cools and thus lowering the psi within. Unlike Co2, green gas/propane operates in the 120psi average range. Cold temperatures or even running your gun hard will severely affect the fps consistency with spreads as large as +/- 40fps (and that's being generous). Yes, if you take steps you can minimize the effects so that they are barely or even un-noticeable. Those steps extend beyond just your rifle setup but in play style as well. The older pre-ban Tanaka's with their PCS valves uses to really minimize those effects. Pre-bans are no longer made and post-bans are just as susceptible as ever gas gun on the market, even the KJW.

 

Classic guns have different air requirements than sniper rifles. Classic guns work on a load based design. They need a high flow of regulated air to feed their 30 ball per second bursts. They do not require consistency to the point that sniper rifles do. A +/-20fps difference means nothing to them as they hose down a target. Their setups are outdated. They rely on a primary reg (Palmers) and sub-reg (Coastal Pneumatics). They sub reg which is not a precision regulator is the reg that determines final output. The Palmers is actually redundant and they could stand to use a cheaper higher pressure regulator as a workhorse since the sub-reg is doing all of the work.

 

Sniper rifles require precision designs. Minimizing fps consistency to +/-5fps is what they require to consistently hit the same spot over and over again at range since bb's running over a hopup nub at huge fps spreads will cause completely different flight paths.

 

The guys from Classicairsoft blow my mind sometimes. They're still using Palmer's with the small low pressure spring stacks yet an AKA 2-liter and other modern paintball regulators with their robust washer springs were developed specifically to handle feed loads that exceed what classic users need while being fairly consistent. A single 2-Liter on an pre-set HPA tank would be more than enough to run a Daytona m249 pretty darn hard let alone an Asahi or older model. They're the ones that introduced me to McMaster fittings which are great for minimizing the size of your hoses and overall fitting scheme. But they're behind the times when it comes down to anything else air rig related.

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Wall of text!

 

c02 capsules containing liquid is news to me actually, we've had about a dozen 12g/20g adapters which are what I was trying to push the OP away from, whos rifles dropped a pretty consistent 1-2fps after each shot.

 

I run a palmers mini reg, that is probably pretty old, with a micro reg about 2-3 feet away attached to my belt and had all sorts of problems with the mini regs gauge blowing until I put a 90 degree neck on the gauge to stop the liquid from reaching it, maybe its time to update.

 

standing statement being though: you can't do it cheaply, they are expensive for a reason :P

 

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+1 to TDS here. It aint cheap...

 

 

And since when are classics so inconsistant shot to shot? I've seen a few in my short time and never have they had 20fps deviances at the crono... Also, if thats true, then why are LRBed classics some of the longest ranged and accurate guns out there?

 

 

I think Palmers sells an "airsoft kit" on their website for around $170. That doesn't include a CO2 tank. don't quote me on price as I'm going off of memory.

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I meant to put this in my first post but I edited it out. About halfway down the page I have a post on how to use a propane tank as a primary gas source. Since propane is around 110 psi (what my gauge reads) you shouldn't need a double reg system. The propane rig will be somewhat vulnerable to ambient temperature changes, and you will be limited to lower output pressures (100psi). For its limitations it saves some money over CO2.

 

Propane powered Reg

 

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+1 to TDS here. It aint cheap...

 

 

And since when are classics so inconsistant shot to shot? I've seen a few in my short time and never have they had 20fps deviances at the crono... Also, if thats true, then why are LRBed classics some of the longest ranged and accurate guns out there?

 

 

I think Palmers sells an "airsoft kit" on their website for around $170. That doesn't include a CO2 tank. don't quote me on price as I'm going off of memory.

 

 

LRB's are more effective at creating a magnus effect than the current single contact hopup systems used in both spring and gas rifles today. Unfortunately LRB's are difficult to make correctly and so many if not all manufactures have switched to the current straight design. They're one of the only barrels that increase range with barrel length. But then the entire barrel is one giant hopup. Remove the LBR barrels and you end up with the same performance from today's rifles. Likewise, if you could fit an LBR barrel to your rifle you would get increased range although accuracy may not be affected. Compare a modern day Dayton gun to a Classic and you'll see the performance difference right away.

 

If you want to see some fps spread on a classic just run a few hundred rounds through it. The smaller low pressure spring packs in both regs warm up pretty quick and you start to see fps variance. Cold bore shots will be nice and fine at the start. The sub-regs were never intended as a precision instrument in the first place so dropping or spiking a +/-2 or 3 psi is no big deal. Their job was to provide a regulated flow (not open and close constantly) for air compressors and vacuums. But once again we're talking apples and oranges in requirements. Classics hose down a target like AEG's. Gas sniper rifles require shot to shot consistency.

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