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TheAirsoftLoki

Gun Control

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It's mental that SBR are regulated by nfa but high cap pistol magazines are one of the easiest things to buy.

 

What would you think is more dangerous a easily concealable Glock with a couple 33 rounder's in the pockets. Or a SBR that would be nearly impossible to conceal without a bag, and some 30 rounders that are harder still to conceal.

 

Totally in agreement about the SBR issue, I don't believe that they should be NFA items and regulated like they are (of course though, they aren't really that regulated. You can buy NFA upper receivers without paperwork, but you could be breaking laws for constructive possession); however I don't agree with an idea of making pistols and their magazines more regulated. Most criminals do use pistols (usually .22, .25, .32 caliber cheap guns like Jennings or Lorcins), but a lot of law upholding citizens with CCW's also carry every day, and sometimes they are able to intervene and stop criminals.

 

What is the point of having 33 round mags for civilian use? No real use for ccw or home defense, no hunting use, a rifle would be better for a tyrannical government. Maybe it could be fun to mag dump them at the range, but I think it is a fair sacrifice to limit the accessibility, similar to suppressors, of them to mass murders.

 

You say having a rifle magazine with 30 rounds is OK because its for recreational use - why can't I have a 33 round magazine for my Glock for recreational use? Why can't I use it for home defense? I like the idea of having 33 rounds waiting for anybody stupid enough to find out that I do when they break into my house. In real life situations, a lot of times you end up shooting a whole lot more then you mean to - and actually achieving hits a lot less then you'd hope. Look at Loughner - he emptied a 33 round magazine and only hit with about half of his rounds, and he was VERY close to his targets.

 

1) Regulate 11+ round pistol mags like suppressors are regulated.

Nah, I really like the idea of being able to not have to reload in a firefight, especially if its my family I'm defending. Most crimes are not committed with a 33 round Glock - they are committed by a 5 round crap revolver or a 7 round Hi-Point pistol. I'm not in favor of limiting my personal freedom and choice because one :censored2: decided to go on a rampage.

 

2) Limiting assault rifle magazines doesn't make any sense however, since it's mostly used for recreation by civilians and not homicide by criminals.

I don't have 30 round magazines for recreation - I have them specifically for defensive reasons. And sometimes, criminals do end up with rifles and end up killing innocent people with high capacity magazines. But I'm still not in favor of limiting our freedoms because a super-tiny minority of people use them for evil.

 

3) 2 day waiting periods for all firearms. (no reason to pick and choose there)

Hell yeah, it'd be a big improvement from the 10 days I have to wait now!

 

4) Background checks for all firearms. (limiting felons and mental from buying them easily)

They do this unless its a face to face transfer. I'm also in favor of people who have mental defects/being treated for depression, bipolar disorders, schizophrenia or are on mood stabilizing drugs ect be flagged from purchasing firearms.

 

5) 18+ rifles 21+ handguns.

No change from federal law

Anything else seems unnecessary.

 

$0.02

 

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I have a solution! Make all guns gold plated so that they cost much more. That way, cheap criminals are deterred and they will be much harder to conceal since you'll be bragging about the $2000 you spend for pimp-accessories.

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It's mental that SBR are regulated by nfa but high cap pistol magazines are one of the easiest things to buy.

 

What would you think is more dangerous a easily concealable Glock with a couple 33 rounder's in the pockets. Or a SBR that would be nearly impossible to conceal without a bag, and some 30 rounders that are harder still to conceal.

 

What is the point of having 33 round mags for civilian use? No real use for ccw or home defense, no hunting use, a rifle would be better for a tyrannical government. Maybe it could be fun to mag dump them at the range, but I think it is a fair sacrifice to limit the accessibility, similar to suppressors, of them to mass murders.

 

1) Regulate 11+ round pistol mags like suppressors are regulated.

 

Yeah, because the last time we did that it made crime non-existent. /sarcasm

 

 

3) 2 day waiting periods for all firearms. (no reason to pick and choose there)

 

And suppose you live in an area where the crime-rate has recently risen due to gang-related activity (for example)? You expect people to wait in fear for 2 days, hoping they don't have something happen to them? Otherwise, explain your reasoning for 2 day waiting period on ALL guns.

 

4) Background checks for all firearms. (limiting felons and mental from buying them easily)

 

Already the law unless (as stated) it's a face-to-face transfer, OR, if a licensed FFL dealer decides they only need to see your CCW/gun license. I bought my EM1 Carbine only needing to show my CCW, but that was the dealer's personal decision on gun purchases at their shop. Also, it can be easier at times to just get a gun off the black market anyways, so obviously the NICS background check doesn't prevent it from happening.

 

Now, as for mentally-ill, I admit that it's a good idea, but some people (such as myself) are on psychiatric medications and are actually sound-minded. While many who are mentally ill and on meds for treatment aren't the first people you should trust with a weapon of any sort, this does not mean that all of them are lost causes. I say keep the current law about being barred from purchase of a firearm if you've been found mentally incompetent via court, or have been court-ordered to be hospitalized for mental-illness. You can be medicated for mental illness but still be allowed to drive something as potentially-dangerous as a car, so keep that in mind.

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What is the point of having 33 round mags for civilian use? No real use for ccw or home defense, no hunting use, a rifle would be better for a tyrannical government. Maybe it could be fun to mag dump them at the range, but I think it is a fair sacrifice to limit the accessibility, similar to suppressors, of them to mass murders.

 

1) Regulate 11+ round pistol mags like suppressors are regulated.

 

2) Limiting assault rifle magazines doesn't make any sense however, since it's mostly used for recreation by civilians and not homicide by criminals.

 

3) 2 day waiting periods for all firearms. (no reason to pick and choose there)

 

4) Background checks for all firearms. (limiting felons and mental from buying them easily)

So you think that a 33rd pistol mag is more dangerous then an AR/AK with a 100rd drum. At least with the 33rd you have to change mags eventually. Not like 100rds of sustained fire.

 

I like my unregulated/non-extended 16rd high capacity magazine. I have it for the event of multiple people, and so I don't have to change mags as often. On any given day I carry just as much as Laughner did but in more magazines. Should we limit how many we can carry on our person? Two of my mags are California legal 10rds

 

I like being able to take my gun home when I buy it, however I don't have a problem with a 2 day waiting period.

 

What do you mean Limiting Felons? They're Felons. They can not buy guns as is!

 

 

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Yeah, because the last time we did that it made crime non-existent.

The goal there isn't to eliminate crime outright, but to make it harder for criminals to get hi caps. Most .45 magazines (what you should carry) are limited to 10 by their nature. Even Glock 26's in 9mm are in the neighborhood of 10 rounds.

 

You expect people to wait in fear for 2 days, hoping they don't have something happen to them? Otherwise, explain your reasoning for 2 day waiting period on ALL guns.

 

Yes, I do. Two days is not long, and the likely-hood of a scenario like that happening is negligible.

 

 

So you think that a 33rd pistol mag is more dangerous then an AR/AK with a 100rd drum

Yes I do. Mass murderers seem to favor easily concealable firearms over the bulky rifles, and I think a law abiding citizen needs the larger rifle mags in the case of a widely tyrannical government. I don't see the purpose of an extended pistol mag though. I understand people that have 15+ round mags in their glocks will be pissed at having to go through the hassle of NFA, but I think cases like that could be grandfathered in, and any later purchase would require NFA reg. and a small tax.

 

What do you mean Limiting Felons? They're Felons. They can not buy guns as is!

My list is of all the gun control that I think is appropriate, I'm going to edit my original post a little more to reflect that.

 

Should we limit how many we can carry on our person?

No limit.

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The goal there isn't to eliminate crime outright, but to make it harder for criminals to get hi caps. Most .45 magazines (what you should carry) are limited to 10 by their nature. Even Glock 26's in 9mm are in the neighborhood of 10 rounds.

 

Yes I do. Mass murderers seem to favor easily concealable firearms over the bulky rifles, and I think a law abiding citizen needs the larger rifle mags in the case of a widely tyrannical government. I don't see the purpose of an extended pistol mag though. I understand people that have 15+ round mags in their glocks will be pissed at having to go through the hassle of NFA, but I think cases like that could be grandfathered in, and any later purchase would require NFA reg. and a small tax.

OH Please enlighten me as to WHY we should be carrying the .45rd over any other. I soooo want to hear this.

 

Prior to Tucson, show me a Mass Murderer that used an extended mag?

 

 

 

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I believe every state should have the right to carry. I think permits would be a plus too! What I mean is, fill an application out for firearms, a separate one for suppressors, full autos and ccw. Just a piece of paper stating you wish to own those types and thats is. No registering serial numbers, models, how many of whatever you own. Just that you have a certain class or type. I for one, do not like the paper trail. All the government needs to know, and I use "know" loosely, is that I own firearms.

 

The waiting period, I can go either way. I think its a judgement call by the seller. If the individual seems nervous or pissed, tell them to come back in a day or two, after the paperwork is "completed" or something.

 

With the full auto. I don't see a "need" for one, but for a collector or someone who has the money to drop for a full auto firearm and ammo, more power to ya!

 

The suppressor tax, I believe all that does is keeps the average person from purchasing them. Criminals will still buy/steal/manufacture them illegally.

 

And for all that wish to ban guns, like some other countries...I believe THEY should move out if they don't like us free gun owners! :a-famerican:

 

Ban guns and watch the animal population get outta control! Although, it might create more jobs for game wardens and animal control.... ha. :a-rolleyes:

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The goal there isn't to eliminate crime outright, but to make it harder for criminals to get hi caps. Most .45 magazines (what you should carry) are limited to 10 by their nature. Even Glock 26's in 9mm are in the neighborhood of 10 rounds.

 

That still doesn't make three 10-rd mags less dangerous in the hands of a criminal than a single 30-rd mag. Oh sure, a few seconds for reloading, but otherwise, no different. My point wasn't that it eliminated crime, but that the Assault Weapon Ban of '94 which was intended to reduce gun-related crime included high-capacity magazines (11 or more rounds) as being illegal. Guess what? Despite all the things banned in that bill, crime-rates and mass-murders pretty much had NO change in their frequency as PRIOR to the ban (Columbine happened during the bill's lifetime too, keep that in mind). Banning high-capacity magazines solves NOTHING.

 

 

Yes, I do. Two days is not long, and the likely-hood of a scenario like that happening is negligible.

 

It still happens, regardless of how negligible you think it is. I know this because a friend of mine had to get a gun ASAP when the jealous ex-boyfriend of the girl he was dating beat the crap out of him, and then got his Reserve buddies to stalk him. They didn't back off until my mother drove to his house while they were watching and carry in plain sight a gun he then bought from her face-to-face. He was a nervous wreck for the few days he had to wait for us to be able to give him the gun. 2 days mean nil if something happens to you in less than 48 hours after you purchase the gun.

 

 

 

Yes I do. Mass murderers seem to favor easily concealable firearms over the bulky rifles, and I think a law abiding citizen needs the larger rifle mags in the case of a widely tyrannical government. I don't see the purpose of an extended pistol mag though. I understand people that have 15+ round mags in their glocks will be pissed at having to go through the hassle of NFA, but I think cases like that could be grandfathered in, and any later purchase would require NFA reg. and a small tax.

 

Handguns are effective the most in close-range and close-quarters. If you're going for the tyrannical government argument to defend high-capacity mags for rifles, wouldn't it also make sense to do the same for pistols then? Also, what about pistol versions of rifles (stockless rifles with a barrel less than 16 inches)? What's to prevent someone from using a standard 30rd mag from their rifle AR-15 and putting into their pistol AR? What about pistol-caliber carbines like the Kel-Tec SU-2000, the KRISS, the Ruger PC4 and PC9 Carbines, the rifle-conversion kits (as in +16" barrels) for Glocks and 1911's , and the Hi-Point 995? All of them use pistol mags but are classified as rifles, which you have said are okay for having high-capacity mags. What say you on that?

Edited by Dmitri Kalashnikov

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That still doesn't make three 10-rd mags less dangerous in the hands of a criminal than a single 30-rd mag.

The Tuscan shooter was tackled only while he was reloading. Maybe the crime rates will stay the same, but it will be harder for mass murderers to get easily concealable guns with insane capacity.

 

wouldn't it also make sense to do the same for pistols then?

I can't really think of too many scenarios where a high cap pistol would be better than a carbine. And for the few that do, 10 rounds would be sufficient I suspect as long as you're not a dunce when it comes to reloading.

 

What say you on that?

Have you ever tried aiming with one of those things? It's a nightmare.

 

Rifles modified to be smaller are still harder to conceal than a pistol, making criminals less likely to use them. Will some use it? perhaps, but I think the majority will just use pistols like the statistics seem to suggest. Again, I want to do away with any regulation of SBR, it just seems arbitrary, like the "barrel shroud" hoopla.

 

The people that modify there pistols to be rifles, will have to register any future purchases of 11+ mags. I haven't seen all too many people do this, but it will still be possible, of course, and with a small $5-10 tax.

 

I know this because a friend of mine..

That is a scary situation, butI think a better route would've been to notify the police and get the guy arrested. Possibly getting some assistance from the PD until the warrant turned him up. Can't hurt you if he's behind bars.

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The only gun control laws we need:

 

Required safety course and background check for all concealed carry permits and permits required for concealed carry. We do this for driving, it only makes sense for handguns.

 

Required registration of all firearms. With computer systems being what they are sending in the serial number of a gun and the person who owns it would take 5 seconds.

 

Criminals and mentally unstable unable to have guns, though keep in mind the difference between "unstable" and "disabled." People in say the high functioning Autism spectrum or with Dyslexia or some learning disorder should not be affected by these laws provided they meet the other criteria.

 

18 and older to buy rifles, 21 and older to buy handguns and get concealed carry permit.

 

24 hour waiting period for handguns. No waiting period for rifles. People don't buy rifles to settle hasty disputes.

 

Registration of suppressors and machine guns with a $50 tax on them.

 

In my opinion, those are all the gun laws we need. Most if not all exist in some form or another in at least a couple states. Magazine restrictions, barrel restrictions, feature restrictions, all unnecessary and arbitary and they affect nothing.

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The Tuscan shooter was tackled only while he was reloading. Maybe the crime rates will stay the same, but it will be harder for mass murderers to get easily concealable guns with insane capacity.
No it won't. Most mass murderers and most criminals do NOT get their guns from a gun store or dealer. One thing that is always evident; no matter what you outlaw, someone, somewhere can get it for you. look at everything coming in to the country. All the Drugs, Guns, Terrorists, and Illegals. You have to much faith in your fellow man.

 

I can't really think of too many scenarios where a high cap pistol would be better than a carbine. And for the few that do, 10 rounds would be sufficient I suspect as long as you're not a dunce when it comes to reloading.
I see tons. The less you have to reload, the greater your chances of survival. Personal Body Guards use them for the simple fact of more firepower less reload.

 

Have you ever tried aiming with one of those things? It's a nightmare.
Have you?

 

Rifles modified to be smaller are still harder to conceal than a pistol, making criminals less likely to use them. Will some use it? perhaps, but I think the majority will just use pistols like the statistics seem to suggest. Again, I want to do away with any regulation of SBR, it just seems arbitrary, like the "barrel shroud" hoopla.
But they can still be concealed.

 

The people that modify there pistols to be rifles, will have to register any future purchases of 11+ mags. I haven't seen all too many people do this, but it will still be possible, of course, and with a small $5-10 tax.
What about the rifles that use pistol mags as stated in the post your commenting on? do you know what a Hi-Point 995 is? It's a carbine that uses pistol mags. should we limit that carbine to 10 rd mags since it uses 9mm rounds?

 

That is a scary situation, butI think a better route would've been to notify the police and get the guy arrested. Possibly getting some assistance from the PD until the warrant turned him up. Can't hurt you if he's behind bars.
Do you know how gangs and bad people operate? just because you put one behind bars doesn't mean that he doesn't have a friend he can call to do what he planned on doing in the first place.

 

Also you never answered my pervious questions, so I will ask them again.

OH Please enlighten me as to WHY we should be carrying the .45rd over any other. I soooo want to hear this.

 

Prior to Tucson, show me a Mass Murderer that used an extended mag? and that got it from their local gun store.

 

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Required registration of all firearms

I agree with the majority of what you said subtract this. I think if the government were to ban guns, this would be there go to list for confiscation. Also, safety courses for the first gun purchase whether it be a rifle or a pistol. That is paramount.

 

no matter what you outlaw, someone, somewhere can get it for you.

This is true, but it will be MUCH harder to get someone to buy something for you when it is harder to obtain for the straw purchaser.

 

Personal Body Guards use them for the simple fact of more firepower less reload.

They would have no problems going the NFA route since they may already do that for suppressors and sbr's.

 

Have you?

Yes, I don't like the idea of only being able to fire an AR from the hip.

 

But they can still be concealed.

This is true.

 

should we limit that carbine to 10 rd mags since it uses 9mm rounds?

Yes. Will they make pistols chambered in rifle rounds as a result? Possibly, but they will not be as affective as a pistol with multiple mags lest the recoil will make rapid fire difficult, not to mention the incredible difficulty of using the iron sights.

 

OH Please enlighten me as to WHY we should be carrying the .45rd over any other. I soooo want to hear this.

If you are limited to FMJ's, very possible when the ammo supply runs out and you have to hand reload your own ammo, 9mm just doesn't transfer energy very well. Ask any member of the military what they think about the effectiveness of 9mm when they must use FMJ. With JHPs 9mm is up to par with most other cartridges, however the 45 will still transfer more energy in a JHP.

 

Also, a heavier bullet will yield better penetration, through thinks like bones, walls, and other cover.

 

9mm will get the job done, but it will take more work, better shot placement, and specialty JHP rounds.

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I agree with the majority of what you said subtract this. I think if the government were to ban guns, this would be there go to list for confiscation. Also, safety courses for the first gun purchase whether it be a rifle or a pistol. That is paramount.

 

For once I agree with you. But in my reason it's for allowing private sales between individual non-FFL dealers. This is what the left erroneously refers to as 'the gun show loophole'.

 

 

This is true, but it will be MUCH harder to get someone to buy something for you when it is harder to obtain for the straw purchaser.

 

I lol'd when I read this. Ever heard of the black market?

 

 

They would have no problems going the NFA route since they may already do that for suppressors and sbr's.

I still don't see how keeping pistol mags' capacities at 10 or less rounds will have any positive effect (if any) on shootings or crime in general. All the NFA route will do is drive up the price ridiculously. God forbid you have a magazine with 11 rounds! Seriously, I see no reason why we need MORE federal regulation of firearms than there already is. I would like to ask you this, Strat: if your gun has a round in the chamber and you put a fresh 10rd mag in it, would that constitute felony charges under your idea of mag-capacity?

 

 

Yes, I don't like the idea of only being able to fire an AR from the hip.

Ever fire an airsoft rifle that didn't have a stock (like a G3 SAS)? I know airsoft guns don't compare, but pistol variations of rifles can be shot like a normal rifle save the fact that you're not shouldering it. It's about balance, grip, and controlling your shots so muzzle-climb and recoil don't affect you as much. Now, to be fair, I've never shot a pistol-rifle before, so if what I've said is incorrect, feel free to make the necessary corrections

 

 

If you are limited to FMJ's, very possible when the ammo supply runs out and you have to hand reload your own ammo, 9mm just doesn't transfer energy very well. Ask any member of the military what they think about the effectiveness of 9mm when they must use FMJ. With JHPs 9mm is up to par with most other cartridges, however the 45 will still transfer more energy in a JHP.

 

Also, a heavier bullet will yield better penetration, through thinks like bones, walls, and other cover.

 

9mm will get the job done, but it will take more work, better shot placement, and specialty JHP rounds.

 

I also agree that .45 is a darn decent round for close-range (particularly if it's a type of hollow-point). So I'll give you a nod of agreement on that too.

 

 

You also failed to address the issue of pistol-caliber rifles that use pistol-type mags that have 10 or more rounds in their capacity. Please clarify your stance on them.

Edited by Dmitri Kalashnikov

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You also failed to address the issue of pistol-caliber rifles that use pistol-type mags that have 10 or more rounds in their capacity. Please clarify your stance on them.

I thought I already addressed this.

The people that modify there pistols to be rifles, will have to register any future purchases of 11+ mags. I haven't seen all too many people do this, but it will still be possible, of course, and with a small $5-10 tax.

 

Now, to be fair, I've never shot a pistol-rifle before, so if what I've said is incorrect, feel free to make the necessary corrections

It's more about stability. You can't really aim the shots without a stock imo.

 

would that constitute felony charges under your idea of mag-capacity?

It only applies to the magazine capacity. So no.

 

I lol'd when I read this. Ever heard of the black market?

Of course there is the black market, but it will be much harder to obtain them with the limited supply, then it is today. Again, I don't want them banning manufacture and import, but only the sale without NFA reg. I don't think this would increase the price of mags to law abiding citizens tooo much.

 

 

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Also, a heavier bullet will yield better penetration, through thinks like bones, walls, and other cover.

9mm will get the job done, but it will take more work, better shot placement, and specialty JHP rounds.

The problem with that is sometimes it goes to far. one of the reasons (besides weight reduction and magazine capacity) They moved to the 5.56rd in the military was that it would tumble upon impact thus reducing collateral damage. However, the Teflon coated rounds used in some of the ARs in Somalia would go straight through the body and the skinny could still get up.

 

yes that is a problem, but you could do the same thing with a .40cal that a .45 could do with a higher mag capacity.

 

It's more about stability. You can't really aim the shots without a stock imo.

 

Of course there is the black market, but it will be much harder to obtain them with the limited supply, then it is today. Again, I don't want them banning manufacture and import, but only the sale without NFA reg. I don't think this would increase the price of mags to law abiding citizens tooo much.

If you know how to use the weapon correctly you can. take the MP5k for example. it is a stockless machine pistol. You can effectively aim that w/o a stock. You would need a sling around your body and to push the gun forward, effectively creating a stable platform.

 

That doesn't mean that they are unobtainable. Weed is illegal by federal standards, that doesn't mean I don't know how to get a hold of it. It's the norm for the what the Government can not outlaw they will always regulate. it is just another way to infringe on our rights.

 

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That doesn't mean that they are unobtainable. Weed is illegal by federal standards, that doesn't mean I don't know how to get a hold of it. It's the norm for the what the Government can not outlaw they will always regulate. it is just another way to infringe on our rights.

 

^This. End of story. There is absolutely no way you're gonna be able to stop that, ever.

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I thought I already addressed this.

 

You're only talking about the pistol-to-rifle conversions. There's several pistol-caliber rifles (as in they're rifle platforms from the start) that use pistol mags such as the Hi-Point or the Beretta PX4 rifle. If you want to limit pistol mag-capacity but say that it's okay for rifles to have high-capacity, what about those rifles? More regulation isn't the answer.

 

 

 

Of course there is the black market, but it will be much harder to obtain them with the limited supply, then it is today. Again, I don't want them banning manufacture and import, but only the sale without NFA reg. I don't think this would increase the price of mags to law abiding citizens tooo much.

 

I still fail to see how this will solve ANYTHING. You yourself have said that you've no problem with SBR's being no longer an NFA-issue, so I can't wrap my mind around the idea of why you think high-capacity pistol mags should be regulated. It won't prevent or deter shootings, it won't drastically lower crimes (if at all), so again: WHY do you want to give the government more power than it truly deserves?

 

And so you know, the black market doesn't care what the laws are. Machine guns (for example) can be obtained through crime syndicates and cartels who get them from OTHER countries, making you argument about limiting the supply irrelevant.

Edited by Dmitri Kalashnikov

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You're only talking about the pistol-to-rifle conversions. There's several pistol-caliber rifles

I can't think of a meaningful way of drawing a distinction here. The idea is to limit pistol mags though. So, if they utilize a pistol mag, these stock sub rifles will also be regulated.

 

In the end, the legislation they are going to push is be NO WHERE near what I want. (limiting rifle mags, banning manufacture of 10+, ban private sales, etc.)

So, practically I wouldn't be in favor of giving up a lot of freedoms just to get one regulation that makes sense to me.

 

Politics... best of two evils I guess.

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There are so many standard capacity magazines out there now that a ban would be utterly pointless. You wouldn't be doing anything other than limiting concealed carriers to 10 rounds and letting criminals have however many they want, because dumb laws like this do not solve anything, they just give the government more power, which they either abuse of prove their incompetence with. Your law would handicap those who would not use a magazine to shoot innocent civilians. Also, high capacity is disingenuous. The standard for the M16 was 20 rounds and now is 30 rounds. The standard for a G17 is 17 rounds. IIRC, NYS has never used the magazine ban as an outstanding charge. It is always used in cases where the DA is trying to throw the book at someone. In my area, the police don't really care, some of them even have post-ban mags for their guns.

 

Explain this to me, why should the police have "high capacity" magazines, when they have backup, bullet proof vests, and no legal obligation to stay and fight?

 

As for "no private sales", that didn't stop Jared Laughner, who bought his gun from a licensed dealer (if you will recall, his magazine malfunctioned, probably due to it's capacity vs. what the gun is designed for, it's size allowed for a grandmother to grab it, and h was almost shot by an concealed carrier)

It won't have an impact on violent crime, because 90% of violent crime involves no firearm, 94.4% of gun murders are gang related, who get most of their guns from theft, and even when a gun is present, it is not used or threatened to be used 83% of the time

70% of the time, criminals get their guns from off the street sales. However, 71% of the times, those guns were stolen.

It didn't stop the columbine shooters, they used a strawman purchase (Who, by the way, used low capacity magazines and an illegal handgun). In the age where one could buy a Tommy gun with a silencer, Drum mag, and all the other goodies at a hardware store, there were no school shootings.

 

What you want is control, because you don't trust people. You do, however, trust the government, which is a far bigger threat to your freedom than your average American, gun owner, or hunter. Just remember, it's a bill of rights, not a bill of needs

 

ETA: On the subject of waiting periods, after the one under the brady bill came into effect, Murder and robbery remained at the pre-bill levels, and rape+ aggravated assault began an increase. The difference in homicide rates between states with the waiting period and without it are negligible. The average gun used in a crime is usually stolen, and goes an average 1-12 years after purchase before a crime is committed.

 

Suppressors are barely regulated in some countries, and they have no issue with assassin style killings. It should be a matter of courtesy, the only guns that become Hollywood quiet have terrible ballistics. I would love a suppressor, I hate wearing ear protection, I can't hear the game I'm stalking with ear plugs in, and when I'm hunting dangerous things like boar, I prefer to hear everything that's going on. Plus they are useful for not losing hearing in self defense situations.

 

None of your solutions would come even close to saving a single life.

Edited by TheAirsoftLoki

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What are your opinions on gun control? Loki here, is for reopening the MG registry, permit-less 50 state concealed and open carry, no waiting periods, and basically believes in "shall not be infringed" rather than "can be infringed for political goal".

 

Restricting gun ownership does nearly nothing, so forget the rules on that.

Simplify gun ownership, but maintain wait periods.

Do better background checks, don't limit if an ex-con, unless you were convicted of robbery or show signs of violence.

Remove near-bans on full auto ownership, damn it they would be some fun to shoot.

And stop saying a person is a possible threat if they have a ton of ammunition. Chances are, its a ton of .22 ammo. Worthless except for target and varmint shooting.

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See, that's the beauty of the Shall-Issue law. If you meet the requirments (clean record criminally and psychologically) they can't deny you a permit. May-issue laws were originally implemented to keep minorities from getting gun permits. And most people in May-Issue states who actually have a permit are either celebrities, retired-cops, government officials, and sports-athletes. Apparently they deserve the right to defend themselves more than common citizens do.

 

no they do not deserve the right to defend themselves more than the common citizen

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A lot of the people that have been posting here really have no clue. Why on earth would you want EVERY weapon to be registered, and have everyone go through a mental status type test?

 

All you are doing is letting the government know who has what, where, and how many weapons and what not. As far as the mental testing, who is going to say what the line is where you can own and can't own a weapon? All they would have to do is make it so little that anyone that has gone in for something stupid is unable to get any kind of firearm. All the law makers need is a small foot hold and they can go from their, just look at what they have done with some of the other laws on the books.

 

It doesn't matter if the weapon has 1 round, 20 rounds, or 600 rounds, if someone is wanting to do harm to another group of people then they are going to do just that. That my mean that they have to do a reload but if you are confident in your weapons a reload will take you next to no time at all to do.

 

Look at what "they" are calling an assault rifle......

 

screwlogic_zpsac02a1d8.jpg

 

All you are doing when you make a "gun free zone" is making a target rich environment for anyone with a weapon that is looking to do harm to other people.

 

The BS that you have to go through to get a suppressor is stupid. Been waiting for 9 months to get my hands on mine. And to think years ago you could go into sears and buy them off the shelf, but all it takes is one person to change the law and make it much harder for law abiding people to get them for a more pleasurable shooting session.

 

Look at the places that have the highest gun related crimes.....these are places that have some of the strongest gun related laws. But for some reason this isn't stopping the gun crimes, I wonder why that is?

 

• A 1997 high school shooting in Pearl, Miss., was halted by the school's vice principal after he retrieved the Colt .45 he kept in his truck.

• A 1998 middle school shooting ended when a man living next door heard gunfire and apprehended the shooter with his shotgun.

• A 2002 terrorist attack at an Israeli school was quickly stopped by an armed teacher and a school guard.

• A 2002 law school shooting in Grundy, Va., came to an abrupt conclusion when students carrying firearms confronted the shooter.

• A 2007 mall shooting in Ogden, Utah, ended when an armed off-duty police officer intervened.

• A 2009 workplace shooting in Houston, Texas, was halted by two coworkers who carried concealed handguns.

• A 2012 church shooting in Aurora, Colo., was stopped by a member of the congregation carrying a gun.

• At the recent mall shooting in Portland, Ore., the gunman took his own life minutes after being confronted by a shopper carrying a concealed weapon.

Why haven't most of you heard of these? The answer is simple: Mainstream media and radicals like Bloomberg don't dare make heroes of armed citizens because it CRUSHES every weak, pathetic argument they raise.

Edited by woogie_man

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-I think registering MG's is reasonable. The only realistic way for a civilian or common criminal to get one is through a gun store.

-Restricting people's ability to conceal/carry a firearm doesn't do anything for criminals, so permit-less (Although a safety course or a check to see if the person has random bouts of rage) are useless.

-Waiting periods are good. Someone can't just go get a gun if they're pissed, gives them time to "cool off". Besides, if you're buying a firearm for your collection you can wait a couple days and if you're in that much of a pinch for one (Stalker or something) then find a friend with a weapon.

-It's a constitutional right, if this one can be overtaken for the sake of well-to-do Californian lawyers, then so can the other's. 100 years ago no one would've dreamed of taking everyone's gun away.

 

But gun control really does work! Just ask any New York or Chicago police officer and they'll tell you!

On the MG registry..."the only reasonable way to get one is through a store" is bull. I could buy a fully auto AK, an Uzi, and a Mac-10 before my waiting period on a legally purchased pistol cleared. They wouldn't be legal, true. But I could do it.

Admittedly, most people don't keep company with people who could get them such weapons, or even keep company with people who keep company with people who know people that you could buy them from. But anyone who wanted to make any effort at all could change this.

Concealed carry...agreed, permits do nothing to stop criminals, stop punishing law abiding citizens.

Waiting periods...I don't have a problem with them.

 

 

You want a form of gun control that will work? Stop abusing law abiding citizens, but pass laws that enforce responsibility. Cops show up at your house for an unrelated matter, see that there are guns, but they aren't stored in a safe with a changeable combination AND key lock (not simply a key lock where a kid can steal the key), they charge you with an A misdemeanor first count (big fine, up to a 364 day probation or county jail time, court's discretion). Second charge regarding irresponsible carry/storage, however it's discovered? Same misdemeanor, higher fine. Third offense, felony, all guns seized, irresponsible owner now banned from even being AROUND guns.

Gun used in a crime, claimed stolen, but not REPORTED stolen in a reasonable time? Hold them responsible as an accessory to a lesser extent for the crime PLUS the charge for irresponsible control/ownership.

 

Laws aren't supposed to be there to keep you from doing something responsibly and safely, they're supposed to exist to enforce responsible exercise of your rights and freedoms. So make them that way.

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I don't think we should expect the shop-owners to be psychic in seeing if you ought to wait. Make the waiting period 2 days or so. But, I say only do that for handguns like we have in GA. I bought my EM1 Carbine and took it home right after signing the receipt for the store copy. Handguns are the most common firearms used in homicide and crime in general, so just keep the waiting period a few days for handguns. By the same token, though, that still doesn't prevent rifles and shotguns from being used for crime.

 

So....Hrmmm....No perfect system. I still say waiting brief periods for handguns.

 

As for happiness, I say it's a semi-warm carbine.

 

WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH! There is no waiting period on ANY firearms in Georgia. And in my opinion there shouldn't be!

 

 

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WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH! There is no waiting period on ANY firearms in Georgia. And in my opinion there shouldn't be!

There isn't a handgun wait? Thought that was a fed law, these days. I only know there is one in WA, AZ, and UT, from experience (Arizona is surprisingly tough on actual gun laws, despite loose laws on carry).

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Hell no there ain't. Most of the south is that way.

 

Most of the country really, there are only 11 states +1 (DC) that have waiting periods of ANY kind.

 

After already owning one gun, why should you have to wait on another, or 14 more? I think that is f-ing silly.

Edited by brettboat

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Hell no there ain't. Most of the south is that way.

 

Most of the country really, there are only 11 states +1 (DC) that have waiting periods of ANY kind.

 

After already owning one gun, why should you have to wait on another, or 14 more? I think that is f-ing silly.

Agreed, just thought the waiting period law was federal.

 

The Tuscan shooter was tackled only while he was reloading. Maybe the crime rates will stay the same, but it will be harder for mass murderers to get easily concealable guns with insane capacity.
Wrong. He was tackled after a civilian with a CCW shot him. Read the articles again.

 

 

 

Also, I can't find the post now, but someone claimed pistol rounds of a heavier caliber penetrate better than a lighter caliber. Not at all true, look up some table comparisons from G&A or half a dozen other publications. A .45 is superior in STOPPING POWER, not penetration. That is to say it transfers more kinetic energy to the body it hits. because it is heavier, it is going slower (often slow enough it doesn't exit, so it transferred ALL of its energy to the body).

 

A 9mm, which is smaller than 5 other "common handgun calibers", has the best penetration rating of any pistol round. A .380, a little "lady's purse gun", usually, has more penetration at normal pistol ranges than the .38, despite being shorter, having less powder charge. And its bullet is the same diameter (shorter though, and I mean bullet, not cartridge). This is because an automatic delivers better seal than a revolver, so the round is going quite a bit faster, short range, and has quite a bit more ability to penetrate, as a result, even if the compared weights means the wheelg7un round has more total kinetic energy. That just means the .38 is more likely to go all the way through than the .380 is.

 

But what's MOST important in pistol calibers is a phenomenon called "hydrostatic shock". Go to the nearest lake, or even a deep puddle. Take three rocks of similar weight and size, but each slightly smaller and lighter than the last (small difference is what's wanted). Drop the biggest and heaviest round in the puddle, and judge the size of the splash, and how far the more pronounced rings spread. Now take the medium one, and toss it a few feet in the air, to land in he water, and watch the same things. Now pitch the smallest on straight down into the water fairly hard, and see what it does.

This is "hydrostatic shock", the body is high in water content, so when the bullets hit, they cause the same sort of "splashing" in cavities and organs. The round with the strongest and biggest splash is the one you want at close range. Because it's the one that will "splash" inside the human body, disrupting fluids, sometimes shattering organs, often tearing major veins and arteries. The round with the greatest hydrostatic shock is the one least dependent on you hitting a vital organ directly, and the least dependent on hitting an organ smaller than your fist to get an almost-instant kill.

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Man stopping has more to do with loss of blood pressure than anything else...

 

shooting someone with a 9mm, 45ACP or even a 44 mag ain't a 100% guarantee to put them down right away. Make em bleed, that's how you drop em.

Yup...and a bigger "splash" in the body cavities is the most effective way to do it...crushed, disrupted, or torn organs, and torn veins/arteries caused by that "splash".

 

Plus, you're more likely to not only damage the heart directly (among other organs), but to also create the same sort of physical shock an electric defibrillator can. While ripping the major blood carriers around it.

 

Isn't as damaging to lungs, of course. But most organs are "soft", and will spread the damage, as well as taking more, themselves.

 

 

Again, look up kinetic energy statistics...if it was purely "bleeding them out", a .380 would be every bit as effective as a 9mm, the rounds are almost identical, outside of the weight and length of the bullet itself. Close to identical width, penetration, close range through and through statistics (anything further than 15 feet away, the 9 is far more likely to punch all the way through, but as you get closer, they come closer to matching). The 9 creates a much heavier "splash" as it goes through...heavy enough to make people consider a 9 and a .45 as about equal in pros and cons, and usually agree that the .40 is a great compromise between the two.

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Yup...and a bigger "splash" in the body cavities is the most effective way to do it...crushed, disrupted, or torn organs, and torn veins/arteries caused by that "splash".

 

Plus, you're more likely to not only damage the heart directly (among other organs), but to also create the same sort of physical shock an electric defibrillator can. While ripping the major blood carriers around it.

 

Isn't as damaging to lungs, of course. But most organs are "soft", and will spread the damage, as well as taking more, themselves.

 

 

Again, look up kinetic energy statistics...if it was purely "bleeding them out", a .380 would be every bit as effective as a 9mm, the rounds are almost identical, outside of the weight and length of the bullet itself. Close to identical width, penetration, close range through and through statistics (anything further than 15 feet away, the 9 is far more likely to punch all the way through, but as you get closer, they come closer to matching). The 9 creates a much heavier "splash" as it goes through...heavy enough to make people consider a 9 and a .45 as about equal in pros and cons, and usually agree that the .40 is a great compromise between the two.

 

The 45acp at point blank is only equal to like a cinder block being dropped from like 6 inches. That ain't really all that much.

 

Blood pressure is what incapacitates people.

Edited by brettboat

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The 45acp at point blank is only equal to like a cinder block being dropped from like 6 inches. That ain't really all that much.

 

Blood pressure is what incapacitates people.

Would be if it stopped on the surface, like dropping it into thick mud. Dropping it into deeper water will cause the splash to magnify under the surface. .45 does that (better than a 9), but the math's still the same...magnify that "splash" in bodily fluids (and blood is a big victim. A huge portion of the less viscous liquid in the body is blood, so it carries such impact further and faster, where the sudden jump in pressure doesn't just burst the vessels)

 

If this wasn't true, the .45 wouldn't have such a shot/kill ratio in practical use, nor would its knockdown power be so praised. But you earlier agreed that these were things a .45 possessed in greater proportions than a 9mm. So now we're just arguing on the "why"...lol.

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