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Hi,

I know this Topic was written so much, but I can not find out which gun is a good upgrade platform.

So, that are the guns I heard of that they are best for a DMR platform:

G&P M14

TM M14

G&G M14

KWA SR12

Cyma M14

 

Are there others ,too that are very good?

 

Version 2 Gearboxes can not handle greater springs so that wouldnt be a nice idea would it?

 

Why do the most people choose an M14 as a platform?

 

da killa

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I would go KWA their motors can pull a 140 and the gearbox is reinforced. and all you will need is a stronger spring and maybe high end battery.

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I personally would go with an aug. looks bad :censored2: and you can use a longer inner barrel with out the gun seeming to long.

DSCN1189.jpg

thats what mine looks like.

 

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For some reason everyone keeps forgetting about the sr25 and the PSG-1. Yes they're harder to find parts for, but once upgraded the right way, the extra length of the piston gives you much better performance with the 509mm barrels. I say 509mm because of the proven facts about 509mm's being the perfect length for fps and range. (lets not start a bashing thread on barrel length now either)

 

The parts inside an sr25 especially and nicely set up as like I said before the piston is longer and gives bigger air flow, but also takes a good amount of normal v2 parts, which as stated before, have plenty of parts for.

 

Also, if you look around, I've found plenty of sr25's that either need work, are upgraded, or just never used.

 

And of course they're .308's so it's a win :a-grin:

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Although I personally love my KWA DMR and my KWA Full Auto, I love the looks of an AUG DMR and M14 DMR.

 

To be honest, I would go with what your personal preference is my friend, KWA is great and all but I will admit, the AUG and M14 look way better as DMR models.

 

As far as performance goes, with KWA you won't have to change out much to get a fairly good DMR platform but then again if you are going to put upgrades into it why not go the AUG and M14 way?

 

I am just offering my two cents :) either way you will want to do some internal specialization swaps as we all know the DMR is just a specialized AEG adapted for torque/range (putting it simply).

 

Heck the Captain of our University of Illinois-Champaign Airsoft Club/Team just bought a VFC SR15 and I am amazed at the small details that make it much more appeal-able to me. It is extremely light, it makes my KWA SR10 feel like a rock and its selector plate and switch are very solid. Externally its beautiful if you are into the realistic look, I am not saying KWA doesn't have it, its the VFC is much more aesthetically appealing.

 

Case in point: Do a ton of research before you make your big purchase, if I could go back and change anything I would be in a heavy debate if I could have felt the VFC out :) and just switched its internals out, although they are not as good as KWA internals they are still decent.

Edited by soccer77

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KWA SR12, or G&G m14. G&G has some of the best accuracy for the price, and in pretty upgradeable. Btw, sergeantsnipes is selling his M14 DMR right now.

ha ha unfortunately yes. Personally I love the G&G m14 as a DMR base because of the mix of parts that it uses and makes it easier to upgrade than a regular v7 gearbox. Plus TM made their m14 off spec from the real steel m14 so on the TM's the stock is thinner and the dissassembly is way different. G&G made the stock more realistic, put a working bolt catch on, and it seperates similarly to a real m14 where the tm has tons of screws to take out to get to the gearbox.

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Hi,

"KWA is nice....which G&G M14 are you talking about? the soc16? or the real wood version?"

I do not know, is one of them better than the other one?

 

So I want to upgrade the gun that I will get. The main Difference of all those rifles is the Hop-Up I think.

The TM Hop-Up is one of the best Hop-Ups out there right?

So is the G&G Hop-up (of the M14 , I heard the others sucks) the G&P(M14) one and the one of the KWA SR12 as good as the TM.

The most important parts in the Unit for accuracy are the Bucking and the nub right?

Or is it the the whole Unit?

So if the G&G Hop Up and the G&P Hop-Up arent as good as the TM can I get a TM and put it in the G&G or the G&P?

Could it happen that I install the TM Hop-Up improperly?

That would not be a problem when getting the TM M14 directly.

And I would upgrade the TM M14 to hold an M140 or M150.

And if the Hop-Up is the best and I upgrade the rest it would be the best choice wouldnt it?

 

 

"da killa, you can make whatever gun you want to into a DMR, just pick one you like and go from there."

 

Yes then I thought I can upgrade the Cyma M14 and it is the cheapest thing...

But it will become the same price if I upgrade maybe a G&G M14 (there I have to upgrade and buy fewer parts)

or if I get the Cyma and upgrade it( I would have to buy more parts)

Is it right?

 

 

da killa

 

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<AT> Fatboy: Thank you for your Opinion but I didnt want to know that the KWA can pull those springs and you havent to upgrade anything. I think that is clear and the most people know that now.

 

<AT> all. Please keep answering my questions.

My questions before the post of Fatboy are really important because I think I will know then what to get...

 

 

da killa

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there should be no real difference between the soc16 and the real wood version save the real wood :D. I am turning my M4 Carbine into a DMR but unfortuanetely I am thinking of the same problem with the V2 shell cracking....I have been looking into an STS (shock transfer system) thats custom made by a company called Ajax but their like $45 and I would need a metal hop-up.

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Hi,

Sorry for Double Posting,

But I have to say that it seems like can not do that with the links on this site so Sorry, my fail.

But maybe you can find out what I mean. It is a german site but try it. It is not difficult even for American people.

 

So PLEASE answer my Hop-Up Questions.

 

It is so important to know.

 

da killa

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-You want a hop up unit that will give you good compression, so match the hop up to your piston head and such for better compression.

 

-You mentioned the KWA hop up being awesome, you'll get the best compression if you use KWA parts with it as well not so much with aftermarket hybrid parts mixing which requires you to do further tweaks if you are looking for compression (dental floss/teflon tape mod).

 

-Also, yes the Bucking/nub are extremely important but you don't just pick the supposed best and throw it in your AWS....you pick the best one for YOUR setup.

 

-Personally I have been using the 2gx bucking in a high fps setting and it cannot provide hop up to 0.40g, 0.36g bb's or 0.32g. But it provides hop up to my 0.30g Biovals and Bioshots. The 2gx bucking is considered one of the best buckings out there but it was not created for use above 450fps.

 

-I was going to fix this problem by using a Systema bucking and SCS (not the PCS mass production) but there are some issues with the Systema bucking fitting correctly on my barrel, so for now I will stick to the 0.30g and 2gx bucking until I have time to work on it. What does this have to do with your question?-Explain exactly what you want your setup to be: estimated fps? compression? bb weight? etc...all play crucial roles in determining the best bucking/nub for your AWS (putting this all simply).

 

 

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Hi,

Ok did I understand right that the KWA Hop-Up together with KWA parts give the gun a great consistency from shot to shot right.

And that the Consistency with aftermarket parts that were put together is worse.

So the Compression is a thing that the Hop-Up is accountable for. Ok.

 

Ok here is what I will want to get:

TM M14 G&G M14 or KWA SR12.

 

It should be able to shoot about 550fps with .2gr BBs.

I will use high quality bbs like Maruzen SGMs if they are not too light.

 

And I am looking forward to get 6-7/10 torso hits at 250ft and about 2/10 torso hits at 300ft without lobbing.

 

So that is what I am looking for and I want to know how much better the Hop-Up of The TM M14 is than the G&G M14 and the KWA SR12 and the G&P M14.

 

So if the TM M14 has the best Hop-Up and I upgrade all the other things in the Gearbox that can break it would be the best choice right?

 

But if it makes a difference of about 10ft over the G&G M14 I would take the G&G I think.

 

So that is the problem.

 

 

 

 

da killa.

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Hi,

Ok did I understand right that the KWA Hop-Up together with KWA parts give the gun a great consistency from shot to shot right.

And that the Consistency with aftermarket parts that were put together is worse.

So the Compression is a thing that the Hop-Up is accountable for. Ok.

 

Ok here is what I will want to get:

TM M14 G&G M14 or KWA SR12.

 

It should be able to shoot about 550fps with .2gr BBs.

I will use high quality bbs like Maruzen SGMs if they are not too light.

 

And I am looking forward to get 6-7/10 torso hits at 250ft and about 2/10 torso hits at 300ft without lobbing.

 

So that is what I am looking for and I want to know how much better the Hop-Up of The TM M14 is than the G&G M14 and the KWA SR12 and the G&P M14.

 

So if the TM M14 has the best Hop-Up and I upgrade all the other things in the Gearbox that can break it would be the best choice right?

 

But if it makes a difference of about 10ft over the G&G M14 I would take the G&G I think.

 

So that is the problem.

 

 

 

 

da killa.

 

Alright I am not good at comparing all those brands so the best thing I can do for you is to give you the data on my DMR and hopefully the people who own the other brands of DMR's can give you some specs...

 

My KWA SR12 DMR is shooting 530+ fps with 0.20g bbs. I can easily tag a target sheet of paper at 200 feet with 0.30g Biovals/0.30g Bioshots--I have not done a groupings test with them vs each other just a rough test and they were very similar.

 

The 0.40g are too heavy for me to use to achieve maximum effective range and the 0.32g I have is outdone by the 0.30g Bioval and Bioshots.

 

The 0.36g I have, I am going to restest 2 days from now. It is Goldenball brand, very good quality heavy bb's--currently the best in heavy weights. I am going to staple a bunch of white printer paper to a box so I can see the bb's (they are black) and I will see if they fly straight without the scope. I will do the usual fine tuning and see if I can hit 250 feet with them. If I can't I will switch back to the bioval 0.30g/bioshot 0.30g and just get them to hit 250 feet.

 

I am getting near perfect compression in my DMR (as far as airsoft goes) and my hop up chamber is doing great. For distance shots in general, you use a hard bucking in a high fps setup but, from what I hear, it is not as accurate but it gives you distance.

 

Also, the KWA 2gx bucking is rated up to 450fps and was not made for a faster speed, that doesn't mean it will not work but that it wasn't created for that purpose.

 

I tried switching to a Systema bucking and SCS and that didn't bode so well with the EdGi barrel and kwa hop up. The Systema bucking was being streched and it was hard to keep the hop up from pushing it down and I don't have the time to tweak with it.

 

Case in point: Distance shots you need a good bucking/nub combo relating to your fps and above all, a good bb and barrel. (provided the other parts are giving you good pressure and low vibrations)

 

I will let you know Sunday how my test goes with the 250 feet thing straight shot with 0.30g Bioval/Bioshot and 0.36g Goldenball.

 

There, now you know about the KWA DMR. Now you can just ask someone who owns the other types of DMR's about their range. I understand that many people may have different parts and not all guns will operate the same but you are asking a general question that is hard for people to answer correctly because there are so many variables so its necessary that you have variable answers and choose which one you like the best.

 

P.S. I have gotten kills from afar before but I had to compensate, I have not tried hitting 250 feet straight because I haven't had time to tune the hop up since I am at a university.

 

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Hi,

<AT> Soccer 77: Ok thank you. Great answer.

I am very interested in what you will get at 250ft. Can you test 300ft ,too,please. Maybe you will get 2/10 hits at a man-sized target.

 

So it seems like the KWA SR10 or SR12 is pretty good you have not to upgrade anything expecting the Barrel and a new Bucking Nub Combo right for shooting at about 500-550fps right?

 

The problem is I come from germany and it isnt available there right now.

Does anyone knows when it comes on the market there?

 

 

da killa

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Hi,

<AT> Soccer 77: Ok thank you. Great answer.

I am very interested in what you will get at 250ft. Can you test 300ft ,too,please. Maybe you will get 2/10 hits at a man-sized target.

 

So it seems like the KWA SR10 or SR12 is pretty good you have not to upgrade anything expecting the Barrel and a new Bucking Nub Combo right for shooting at about 500-550fps right?

 

The problem is I come from germany and it isnt available there right now.

Does anyone knows when it comes on the market there?

 

 

da killa

 

KWA SR12 DMR:

-AB Mosfet

-Shimmed Gears

-Low Resistance Wiring

-Deans

-EdGi 6.01mm TBB

-Elite 9.6v 5000mah Battery and a KA 11.1v 1400mah 15c Lipo

-Guarder Sp140

 

-Currently chronoing: 530.7, 531.4, 531.8, 531.4, 530.6

 

I have not done further upgrades as it has not called for it yet, when the motor goes I will put in a torque motor, etc... No reason to waste money if parts work.

 

I have not done any upgrading to the bucking/nub combo but if you want to shoot heavy bb's at a high fps, the 2gx kwa bucking is not the way to go. A Systema bucking and SCS Nub are the way to go (Not the PCS knock off).

 

As I said, if the 2gx cannot provide sufficient hop to my 0.36g at tommorow's test, I will just use the 0.30g. However, I believe that 530fps is a bit much to be using 0.30g at as 450-470ish is 0.30g's optimal performance IMHO. I may downgrade to an SP120 which, coupled with KWA compression and Guarder's running hot should be 440-450fps. This is all depending on tomorrow's results. I pray its not windy.

 

I hope this helps.

 

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Ok,

Thank you Soccer 77, I look forward to hear what you will get.

 

And please keep in mind with wich BBs and BB weight you got wich performance.

 

It is great that you help me so much.

 

 

 

da killa

 

Alright, My results were not good because the 2gx bucking cannot provide sufficient hop to the bb's. My SCS + Systema bucking are coming in this week though and they should work great.

 

-KWA 2gx bucking provides the best hop up for 450 fps or lower.

 

-I borrowed my friends systema + PCS and tried installing it and the bucking kept slipping down but I didn't want to tinker with it since it was not mine.

 

-When my SCS and systema comes in I will cut it smaller and do the dental floss or teflon tape mod to compensate for the lack of kwa 2gx compression

 

The SCS and systema should help me reach 250feet++ since everything else in this AWS works beautifully. I will let you know whenever I get them in.

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I would get a kwa and convert it to a spr because THEY"RE bad @$$

people already said this but you wouldnt need to mess with the hop up since its already nearly perfect, just put in a m140 sprig (it can pull) a nice battery, and maybe a good tbb and your done. oh and a spr mod 0 kit of course:

post-51466-1288562214_thumb.jpg

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