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unfortunatly, the old "new ideas for improving sniper rifles" thread kinda died, and its kinda sad because there were some great ideas and I think that its a better if we kept them coming. anyways, im out of ideas for now, but im sure a bunch of other members have ideas... so keep them coming

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Just wondering about this, but what is the difference in a pellet gun and an airsoft gun? A pellet gun shoots about 1000fps and can reach out about 300 yards while an airsoft has half the power but a third of the range. Is it just phyisics or do pellet guns do something better? Or are my numbers wrong?

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Just wondering about this, but what is the difference in a pellet gun and an airsoft gun? A pellet gun shoots about 1000fps and can reach out about 300 yards while an airsoft has half the power but a third of the range. Is it just phyisics or do pellet guns do something better? Or are my numbers wrong?

I do own pellet guns, and they arent meant to be sniper rifle and I doubt they can reach up to 300 yards accurately. however, within their effective range, they are a hell of a lot more accurate than airsoft cuz a majority of them are rifled. however, most of them most of them come under the same limitation as airsoft gun and even real guns. you cant have accuracy, power, and range all in the same time. In airsoft, we generally seek for accuracy and power, but we ten to give off range. same for pellet guns, although there is a lot more power and accuracy within that range. My break barrel thats going supersonic tend to be less accurate than other pneumatically pumped pellet gun going subsonic. so yes, pellet guns do have 2 main advantages. 1. its rifled and doesnt used spherical projectile, and 2, its meant to kill small game animals, so it can be extremely powerful

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So then if rifled barrel and conical projectile work well in pellet guns would they atleast work half as effective in airsoft guns?

No. No. No. Holy :censored2::pain:, no. Do a god damn search, this :censored2: question is asked all the god damn time and it's always some person thinking they have thought of the best damn thing to of ever happened since that Jesus fellow. This :censored2: question gets asked with the same :censored2: answer always told... In fact... I don't think you even need to do a search, but instead can find your answer in some thread still on the first page.

 

Why it doesn't work the same, fill in the rest yourself.

 

Projectile weight difference, same projectile weight difference affecting overall energy difference, pressure required to grab land and grooves. Unsafe > Effectivity

Edited by Wonko The Sane

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So then if rifled barrel and conical projectile work well in pellet guns would they atleast work half as effective in airsoft guns?

 

No. Rifled barrels do nothing for round steel BB's. It's actually a detriment - the rifling causes the propelling gas to escape past the BB.

 

The reason steel BB guns have more range and accuracy for a given distance compared to airsoft is projectile size, weight, and velocity. Velocities and weights that kill animals and can injure and maim humans. Projectile shape is a non-issue. Yes, lead pellets have better accuracy and range than steel BB's due to the rifled barrel imparting a stabilizing spin, but again we are talking about a projectile weight and velocity that is unsafe for airsoft. On the order of 1000+ fps for .5g 4.5mm pellets. That's over 23 joules! For reference, .2g at 450 fps is only 1.87 joules.

 

In addition, the 4.5mm diameter means less drag, so more range and better accuracy at longer ranges.

 

One could experiment with a rifled airsoft barrel and a rubber pellet shaped like lead examples. But all the shape engineering in the world won't change the fact you are shooting a light projectile at only 450 fps max.

 

23 joules vs. less than 2 joules. That's the range and accuracy difference between pellet guns and airsoft.

 

IMHO, work on the gun before worrying about ammo making any difference at all.

 

An aspect of real-steel accuracy that can help has to do with the gun itself. "Floating" the barrel means mounting the action so that only the receiver touches the stock, so any flex in the foregrip has no affect on the bullet trajectory. "Bedding" refers to filling the stock with fiberglass epoxy so the receiver has solid and even support. "Pillar-bedding" means inserting aluminum cylinders in the mounting screw holes flush with the bedding so tightening the screws won't stress the receiver or distort the barrel. "Full bedding" means using the epoxy filler to provide support for the receiver and barrel the whole length of the foregrip. All of these things are an effort to improve consistency - prevent differences from shot to shot that might affect the bullet trajectory.

 

IMHO, pillar-bedding an airsoft rifle is the way to go. I'm going to try this in the coming months. The stock on my SG R700 is serviceable, but while it's not flimsy it is simply two half-shells bonded together. Quality RS composite stocks typically have an inner aluminum frame for "bedding" purposes. I'm hoping Bondo or something will add a bit of structure and allow me to improve the mag-release.

Edited by 40oz

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So then if rifled barrel and conical projectile work well in pellet guns would they atleast work half as effective in airsoft guns?

in theory, yes. safely? no. like wonko said, pushing a BB to the velocity in which rifling would cause any noticible increase in range will cause way too much damage upon impact. to summarize, if you do manage to make a conical projectile, load it into a gun and fire it, the max effective range would be very small do to the absence of hop up. however, in theory, with in that range, the accuracy will go up. but then, most guns WITH hop up can produce high accuracy within that range so the increase in accuracy is barely noticeable. in a general sense, a conical projectile will be detrimental to the range of an airsoft gun, even with the increased accuracy. the only way I can see for this to be remotely possible is to have an airfoil conical BB, and upon leaving the muzzel, the angle of attack will shift in that lift will be generated by the forward motion of the BB. even this probably wont work as there are way to many variables to take into consideration.

Edited by sniperx2s

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RAP4 uses projectile shaped BBs. and are used as PTWs.

The reason BB's are the way they are is so that the spherical shape spreads out the impact across a wider area, if we were to improve the ballistics of the projectile it would end up being shaped like a bullet and be much more dangerous. Why do you think we went from muzzleloaders shooting essentially big heavy bb's to M24's shooting a highly tuned ballistic projectile for our military members.

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Yes, but they are not dangerous.

As shown...

http://www.rap4.com/store/paintball/rap4-airfin-bag-of-1000

 

They compensated by using a lighter bb. thus less Kinetic Energy, in (1/2)(M)(V^2). However improved air dynamics gives it less wind resistance... granting improved range while maintaining velocity.

 

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What about a indicator on your chest rig or vest that can tell you how many mags, and what they are (Mids, High Caps). That would be pretty cool, and kinda easy if you had technological know how.

 

Or a mosfet type system that can lower your ROF to a efficient setting to conserve battery when your battery is getting low on charge.

Edited by airsoftking95

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What about a indicator on your chest rig or vest that can tell you how many mags, and what they are (Mids, High Caps). That would be pretty cool, and kinda easy if you had technological know how.

 

Or a mosfet type system that can lower your ROF to a efficient setting to conserve battery when your battery is getting low on charge.

I sense we are getting on the topic of AEGs.....

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I sense we are getting on the topic of AEGs.....

My fault, I just realized this was a Sniper rifle thread.

 

Well in this case how about a 3 direction hop-up nub set up that you can adjust with a special type of scope (To compensate for windage, etc.)

 

Since the normal hop up only has backspin, if you incorporate back spin and side spin (With the corresponding sight settings) Then maybe bb's could have a much straighter trajectory in a windy environment as the bb's side spin would counteract the wind. It may be a wild and expensive idea.

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My fault, I just realized this was a Sniper rifle thread.

 

Well in this case how about a 3 direction hop-up nub set up that you can adjust with a special type of scope (To compensate for windage, etc.)

 

Since the normal hop up only has backspin, if you incorporate back spin and side spin (With the corresponding sight settings) Then maybe bb's could have a much straighter trajectory in a windy environment as the bb's side spin would counteract the wind. It may be a wild and expensive idea.

 

 

so.. something like this? where the blue is where the rubber would be in contact with the bb. link to hopup idea

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the only problem I see (actually 2 :D) is cross winds, because if you have right to left wind at your position doesn't mean there isn't left to right wind at your target. Also size, with three adjustable contact areas you'd need three arms and a bigger hop up chamber.

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the only problem I see (actually 2 :D) is cross winds, because if you have right to left wind at your position doesn't mean there isn't left to right wind at your target. Also size, with three adjustable contact areas you'd need three arms and a bigger hop up chamber.

Thats true, I can solve the bigger hop up and three arm issue, Simply make the barrel sway (Not by much but have the barrel move left to right slightly.) Maybe that could counteract windage and still use standard hop up.though you would need a custom outer barrel. and I understand what you mean about wind differences but its better than having no directional compensation. :a-salute:

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Since the normal hop up only has backspin, if you incorporate back spin and side spin (With the corresponding sight settings)

Wouldn't a cheaper way to do this be to just cant your rifle? By doing so, you just effectively added side spin. Also, you then don't need to adjust your hop up settings for every single shot you take because the wind isn't always going to be blowing in the same direction and speed for every shot you take once you adjust those settings. And, unless you have nice accurate adjustments shot to shot, where you know that it's a certain amount of extra side spin applied per amount of wind, it's not going to be useful, nor effective.

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Side-Spin Hop=Worst Idea. Next to the rifled barrel idea. Though I honestly would pay to see Wonko explode again. That was hilarious.

 

But really? See we dial in hopup to counter-act this thing called "gravity" which, unless your airsofting in space. Is pretty consistent through out the earth. Gravity's effect is constant. Wind isn't. It will die down or minute changes in the windspeed will affect how far your BB hops to the side. Yeah. Stupid. How about we all brain storm about actually improving the sport. Sound good? the last thread was ok. But I lol'd when all the extremely dedicated people just let the thread die.

 

See the japs made this thing called the G-Hop

 

Maybe we can argue over whether or no that will work. Instead of asking another rifled/finned/compressed plasma deathray question.

 

 

Edited by sniperelite7

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Side-Spin Hop=Worst Idea. Next to the rifled barrel idea. Though I honestly would pay to see Wonko explode again. That was hilarious.

 

But really? See we dial in hopup to counter-act this thing called "gravity" which, unless your airsofting in space. Is pretty consistent through out the earth. Gravity's effect is constant. Wind isn't. It will die down or minute changes in the windspeed will affect how far your BB hops to the side. Yeah. Stupid. How about we all brain storm about actually improving the sport. Sound good? the last thread was ok. But I lol'd when all the extremely dedicated people just let the thread die.

 

See the japs made this thing called the G-Hop

 

Maybe we can argue over whether or no that will work. Instead of asking another rifled/finned/compressed plasma deathray question.

Could you post something that dosent require me to use yahoo bablefish?

Edited by airsoftking95

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unfortunatly, the old "new ideas for improving sniper rifles" thread kinda died, and its kinda sad because there were some great ideas and I think that its a better if we kept them coming. anyways, im out of ideas for now, but im sure a bunch of other members have ideas... so keep them coming

Ok I have some ideas on sears and remember those are just thoughts that have not turned into plans yet;)

 

1: Once the piston sear wears out wrap electric tape around it as this tape is strong and gives grip(you could also do this before it wears out) I know this wont last forever but it should extend the life until you get new ones or you could just keep putting it on.

 

2: And again about the piston sear you could also use JB Weld maybe??? To build it back up.

 

3:If the trigger sear breaks simply weld it back together I know not everyone has a welder but for those who do this should save money.

 

4:About sun shades for your scope, you can always cut a piece out of a coke bottle and paint it black and tape it or attach it however you like to the scope.

 

Anyway those were just different ideas that I had please give me some input.

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Guys, the concept of the 3 hop-up idea was already made. It is actually a 2 arm system that allows you to put pressure on the left and right side of the bucking nub, which gives it the spin it needs to turn. You know, the L96 and VSR-10 hop-up chambers. No need to create 3 nubs and 3 hop-up arms when you can get the same effect with 2 arms and 1 nub.

 

Granted, it wouldn't be exactly horizontal considering the nub is still on top, but the effects are still there, and it works.

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Ok I have some ideas on sears and remember those are just thoughts that have not turned into plans yet;)

 

1: Once the piston sear wears out wrap electric tape around it as this tape is strong and gives grip(you could also do this before it wears out) I know this wont last forever but it should extend the life until you get new ones or you could just keep putting it on.

 

2: And again about the piston sear you could also use JB Weld maybe??? To build it back up.

 

3:If the trigger sear breaks simply weld it back together I know not everyone has a welder but for those who do this should save money.

 

4:About sun shades for your scope, you can always cut a piece out of a coke bottle and paint it black and tape it or attach it however you like to the scope.

 

Anyway those were just different ideas that I had please give me some input.

1, 2, and 3, wont work, as the stresses put on the sears are tremendous. Any thing used to rebuild it/repair it will be utterly destroyed. Thats why we use solid pieces of steel to build the sears. Honestly, its pointless talking about trigger components/mech box because we all agree that the trigger is great where it is now. Its simple, it works, its effective. Now the hop up is where we should be most concerned as thats where most of the accuracy is. In my opinion, the hop up on the side is a good idea, but kinda inpracticle. Its overly complicating a simple idea, and in engineering, over complication is just a nice way of saying utter failure. Of course, this is my opinion, and it could be wrong, im all out for you guys to try it out. The best way of making a consistent hop up is to have as little moving parts as possible. when I got my RS SVD, I found that one of the major factors of its consistent shots is the simplicity of its hop up chamber. Its basically a wheel and a rod. The rod moves up and down, adjusting hop up, and the wheel turns moving the rod up and down. Its incredibly simple. And this design is superior to both the VSR and APS2 design as it does not have a arm which rotates. It only moves, up and down providing amazing consistency. If we have hop ups designed like this in our bolt action rifles, I think we will see a noticeable jump in accuracy.

and about number 4, come on, if you have enough money for a fully upgraded sniper rifle, I think you would have enough money to buy a sunshade.

 

As for the idea of rifled barrels, yeah, no, thats not gonna work. Why? because the friction generated between the projectile and grooves will cause it to shatter. Remember our design constraints, around 550 FPS, and plastic projectile because we arent trying to kill anything here. With those constraints, it is pretty much impossible to create a usable projectile. However, this is all speculation, and I encourage people to actually test out these ideas. IF we do want a bullet shaped projectile, we must use the finned projectile idea. This of course, is the most expensive option since every bullet must be CNCed. The question of range will still be unanswered until tested out, right now, this is all speculation. but let me ask you this, would you rather have BB go in a rather straight horizontal line, and have it be inconsistent, or have it arc, and have it consistent? I would chose arc and have it consistent. On my really really old post about dimpled BB's, we started talking about finned BB's, and I think Ben from polarstar commented that at 550 FPS, an arc of about 15 degrees will lob a projectile up to 300 feet, and do it accurately.

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1, 2, and 3, wont work, as the stresses put on the sears are tremendous. Any thing used to rebuild it/repair it will be utterly destroyed. Thats why we use solid pieces of steel to build the sears. Honestly, its pointless talking about trigger components/mech box because we all agree that the trigger is great where it is now. Its simple, it works, its effective. Now the hop up is where we should be most concerned as thats where most of the accuracy is. In my opinion, the hop up on the side is a good idea, but kinda inpracticle. Its overly complicating a simple idea, and in engineering, over complication is just a nice way of saying utter failure. Of course, this is my opinion, and it could be wrong, im all out for you guys to try it out. The best way of making a consistent hop up is to have as little moving parts as possible. when I got my RS SVD, I found that one of the major factors of its consistent shots is the simplicity of its hop up chamber. Its basically a wheel and a rod. The rod moves up and down, adjusting hop up, and the wheel turns moving the rod up and down. Its incredibly simple. And this design is superior to both the VSR and APS2 design as it does not have a arm which rotates. It only moves, up and down providing amazing consistency. If we have hop ups designed like this in our bolt action rifles, I think we will see a noticeable jump in accuracy.

and about number 4, come on, if you have enough money for a fully upgraded sniper rifle, I think you would have enough money to buy a sunshade.

 

As for the idea of rifled barrels, yeah, no, thats not gonna work. Why? because the friction generated between the projectile and grooves will cause it to shatter. Remember our design constraints, around 550 FPS, and plastic projectile because we arent trying to kill anything here. With those constraints, it is pretty much impossible to create a usable projectile. However, this is all speculation, and I encourage people to actually test out these ideas. IF we do want a bullet shaped projectile, we must use the finned projectile idea. This of course, is the most expensive option since every bullet must be CNCed. The question of range will still be unanswered until tested out, right now, this is all speculation. but let me ask you this, would you rather have BB go in a rather straight horizontal line, and have it be inconsistent, or have it arc, and have it consistent? I would chose arc and have it consistent. On my really really old post about dimpled BB's, we started talking about finned BB's, and I think Ben from polarstar commented that at 550 FPS, an arc of about 15 degrees will lob a projectile up to 300 feet, and do it accurately.

 

Ok Maybe the tape wont work although I will try it as I have had good results before with it holding up to pressure and I could make some sort of grip. Welding I know about and my Dad knows a lot about welding and so does a lot of my friends who work in that field and believe it or not it will hold up. Not forever but it will last until you get another sear set depending on what welder what kind of welding and if you are good at it or not. And about number 4 not everyone is Bill Gates and spends 100's to 1,000's of dollars on their guns so any way to save money on any kind of part so they have money for other parts I think just might be helpful??? I personally ain't the richest guy on the block but I love improvising with good results most of the time! And as I work in the maintenance department where I live and my family owns most of the tools I have the ability to tinker to my hearts content. I am going to try to find as much cheap and free mods as I can and maybe post them on here.

 

And finned bb's might work although with the fins it could cut someone going at 550 fps and slashing across your face or arms or even worse your juggler vein!!!!

 

 

 

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Because the forces and materials involved are sufficient enough to do that? :P

 

 

Airsoftmechanics has started a new section dedicated to sniping tech. There is a thread on there that proposes two channels cut along the bottom of the inner barrel. allowing the air to more effectively push the BB up against the top of the barrel. Resulting in a a better, and flatter trajectory. That would be doable. Considering its relatively simple in terms of what needs to be done.

Edited by sniperelite7

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One thing I've seen from the paintball side is the introduction of the First Strike round from tiberius arms. I actually have a First Strike T9 and basically its a finned skirt on the back half of the paintball. the skirt will expand when the air pushes on it therefor creating a seal as well as spinning the projectile with the fins slightly canted so in flight it stabilizes the round mid flight. Now the problem of the pointed tip would cause injury, however on this round they maintain the blunt roundness of a bb on the striking side. If this could transfer to airsoft then we could see improved range and trajectory and possibly power (aka fps) due to the better seal with the barrel.

 

This of course comes after the typical improvements on my T9 I'm running a Lapco barrel and HPA with a ported bolt.

 

 

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Because the forces and materials involved are sufficient enough to do that? :P

 

 

Airsoftmechanics has started a new section dedicated to sniping tech. There is a thread on there that proposes two channels cut along the bottom of the inner barrel. allowing the air to more effectively push the BB up against the top of the barrel. Resulting in a a better, and flatter trajectory. That would be doable. Considering its relatively simple in terms of what needs to be done.

would that be somewhat like the LRB's? would be really interested to see results from that barrel.

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I was talking to a friend through PMs today, and when he was telling me what he did to upgrade accuracy, for some reason I got an insane idea.

 

Many people teflon their cylinder heads to get better air compression. Right? Though this teflon jams the gun easily, must be replaced each time you use it, and doesn't provide as much compression as it could. So how about using heatshrink as a replacement? Here is my idea, sorry about the quality. I sketched it up quickly on my iPad, so I couldn't get the lines straight easily:

 

sketch20110313042223.png

 

This would solve the jamming issue, it has no need to be replaced, and provides a 'theoretically' perfect airseal at that part of the gun. I could also see this being used right after the bucking to provide an airseal there too.

 

What do you guys think?

 

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