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Kemp

New Sniper Help

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Okay, so after deciding to get into airsoft, and being a lover of sniping in everything else, I want to start with a good rifle that I can upgrade and make my own. I've narrowed it down between the JG BAR-10, and the TM VSR-10. I'm leaning towards the VSR, but the price is what's killing me. I've read that the JG is almost the same thing for a much lower price. But, I think the quality and strength of the VSR might be worth the extra money. So once I get the rifle, I want to upgrade it. Reading through many artcles, and other posts, many say it's good to pick one brand (Laylax, Pdi, P*, etc) but I'm looking for the best accuracy and ranges possible, without killing my wallet. I saw the Laylax 170, and was thinking about that, or the 190 (I'm 170+, and fairly strong) with teflon cylinder and maybe the zero trigger. But, I don't know what combinations would work best, and offer the most durability. Any input you might have would be greatly appreciated.

 

-Kemp-

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I am going to have to respectively disagree with woogie man's statement. I would save up and buy a Tm. It can be picked up for around $200 but it I believe is worth it. After completly upgrading my Jg bar 10 to the max I was not impressed. I would say buy the Tm skirmish with it for awhile save up some money over time and then purchase some quality upgrades. Remeber accuracy first then power. I had not very impressive results in my build. But I believe if you, over time, buy upgrades and put them in your Tm it will yield much better results than a jg. Stick to high quality upgrades such as: Polarstar, Edgi, Pdi, and Laylax. don't go for Airsoftgi's upgrade parts they are C-R-A-P.

Polarstar makes the best pistons and spring guides I believe. Edgi has great TBB and upgrade kits. Pdi has great TBB and overall parts but being a little on the pricey side. Laylax has good parts but the only laylax thing in my gun is the spring :). As far as trigger mechs go, 1. M-trigger, 2. Zero trigger, 3. Pdi V-trigger. Please let me know if you have anymore questions. Plus feel free to PM me.

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I am with woogie on his comment. the logic is already there. but VSR users/lovers will be posting here after probably a few minutes and the war between the 2 rifles will once again start thru this thread...

 

 

EDIT: ... see. I was right.

 

 

Edited by S n a k e™

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Is there a big difference in durability of the bar-10 and the vsr? I'm worried I'm gonna break the bar-10 if I get it...

once you upgraded everything, nothing will break. I have a clone rifle and it has held up so far. the logic between getting a clone gun is as follows: if you are upgrading every internal on the TM and the Bar-10, why not go for the cheaper platform? its 100 dollars cheaper, but you will get the same peformance and durability as a TM if both are upgraded. however, remember you should only get the bar-10 if you really want to be a sniper, and you really have to follow through. Viper does have a point. you should buy the TM, skirmish with it, and see if you like the role. But you are going for full out upgraded ASAP, you should by a bar-10.

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I have owned an upgraded Bar10, Bar10 G-Spec, TM VSR-10, and TM G-Spec.

 

I would insist on the TM. Even if you are replacing everything in it, the parts that don't get replaced (Receiver, Hop up Chamber, Outer Barrel, hell even the screws) are of a far better quality than the JG.

 

Ever since JG Bar-10's gained popularity a few years back, right after the first booming batch quality dropped immensely. The first batch that came with the metal barrel end cap were the only ones worth buying over a TM.

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once you upgrade everything in a bar 10/vsr there will be almost no stock parts left anyways. An extra $100+ dollars isn't worth it just for the TM name.

 

Have you done a side by side comparison of BAR-10's vs VSR-10's?

 

Honestly. I want to know, have you ever had an upgraded JG and TM with the same parts sitting in front of you at the same time? Have you even owned a TM? ...or are you just saying the JG is better because it's what the internet says?

 

... My bets the latter.

Edited by Wonko The Sane

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Before buying a sniper rifle, see if you can borrow someone's for a few games.

Admitting that you're new to airsoft, you may not realize that sniping is not all it's hyped up to be.

Most would-be snipers actually prefer being designated marksmen.

 

Why?

- sniper rifles don't really outperform a well upgraded AEG by much.

So don't expect the feel of those long-distance kills. Sniping in airsoft is more about playing the role of recon, and attempting to get a silent kill.

But you will be engaging targets not all that far out of range of a decent AEG.

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I have owned an upgraded Bar10, Bar10 G-Spec, TM VSR-10, and TM G-Spec.

 

I would insist on the TM. Even if you are replacing everything in it, the parts that don't get replaced (Receiver, Hop up Chamber, Outer Barrel, hell even the screws) are of a far better quality than the JG.

 

Ever since JG Bar-10's gained popularity a few years back, right after the first booming batch quality dropped immensely. The first batch that came with the metal barrel end cap were the only ones worth buying over a TM.

YES! You are right the screws and the outer barrel and hopup chamber all these things piss me off so much. Just get the TM trust me!!!

After about a year of having the Bar 10 these parts start to wear out. Also I have noticed a wobbly scope mount after a year of use. It loosend up even after I have tightened it!!! Plus I had the same issued with the bolt handle coming loose every 10 bolt pulls. Save yourself the pain in the :a-censored: buy the TM.

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Thank you all for the replies, I've decided to go for the VSR. Any difference between the real shock, g spec, or pro versions? I know the barrel lengths, but performance wise? And any suggestions for other upgrades?

Sorry for the double post but I needed to answer this question. The real shock is essentially a pro with some weights on the piston. This overall reduces effectiveness and fps. It doesnt even kick that good I hear and is not good. Although it is around the same price as the pro it might be worth picking up if you are in desperate need of some paper weights? Other than that I wouldnt suggest it. G-spec has a 303mm inner barrel and a mock suppresser. Also it has a non-tapered barrel this means the barrels diameter is the same throughout the hole outer barrel. For $100 more I wouldnt spend the money on the G-spec simply because of the inner barrel length. It is too short and will not be quite as good as the Pro Snipers 435mm barrel. Although if you are a silencer guy you may want to buy it and run a tightbore through it. Pro sniper my personal favorite. 435mm inner barrel, just a good solid rifle. Although it has a tapered barrel meaning the diameter decreases slightly over the length of the gun making it only harder to make homemade barrel spacers. Overall go with the Pro it is the best.

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Alright, so I'm thinking the Pro Vsr-10 with some massive upgrades.

- PDI 6.03 TBB

- EdGI SP01 spring... Read about it in Noobies review of M-trig... ORRR Laylax sp 170/190... Still deciding...

- M Trig or Zero trig

- Firefly or nineball bucking...

- I'm stuck on anything else.... I know I need a cylinder, A spring guide, sears, and some other stuff. Any more suggestions? Anything I have that is unnecessary? I've been trying to read up, but some of these parts don't say how they perform unless you use all the same parts ( like all laylax, or all PDI). Once again, thanks for all your input...

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Alright, so I'm thinking the Pro Vsr-10 with some massive upgrades.

- PDI 6.03 TBB

- EdGI SP01 spring... Read about it in Noobies review of M-trig... ORRR Laylax sp 170/190... Still deciding...

- M Trig or Zero trig

- Firefly or nineball bucking...

- I'm stuck on anything else.... I know I need a cylinder, A spring guide, sears, and some other stuff. Any more suggestions? Anything I have that is unnecessary? I've been trying to read up, but some of these parts don't say how they perform unless you use all the same parts ( like all laylax, or all PDI). Once again, thanks for all your input...

 

 

Just buy it and worry about what upgrades you "need" later. FPS is a waste if you can't hit the target.

 

If you upgrade the spring you will want a 90* sear trigger mech and a matching cylinder head. Eventually if not immediately.

 

If you aftermarket the hopup chamber to an AEG-style you will need a new AEG barrel to match, regardless of internal diameter.

 

If you buy the VSR, understand that it comes with what many consider the best bucking and hopup chamber already. That's one reason people buy them.

 

You could just go all out and buy every upgrade possible, but if you do that there is no reason to start with a TM. If you are replacing the cylinder and piston anyway, go with a SG R700, as it is a clone of the Real Shock (Pro Sniper with weights on the piston to throw off your aim realistically :) ). Same tapered outer barrel and longer inner barrel.

 

The main reason people upgrade their rifle is for consistent accuracy and range. People upgrade clones is because they don't have either. The reason to buy a TM is to get both without upgrades. That said, taking apart, cleaning, and reassembling your rifle greatly improves accuracy, and there are plenty of "free mod" threads to improve both range and consistency.

 

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Won't need sears if you go with a zero trigger, or a piston.

Not sure if the m trigger has sears with it, think it does, but it doesn't come with a piston.

 

The point is that with a heavy spring you need a 90* sear or you will just wear your stock sear to a nub. And need a new sear set as the increased wear on all trigger components wears down the pot metal. A 90* sear requires a new trigger mech.

 

And the M-trigger is specifically a 90* trigger mech. For a reason.

 

The VSR Zero Trigger comes with a piston for the 90* sear.

 

V-triggers come with a piston end for the 90* sear.

 

You do the math. I'm not saying you need a 90* sear for every spring but you can't change your 45* sears to 90*, and if you are upgrading trigger mechs, you go 90*.

Edited by 40oz

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The point is that with a heavy spring you need a 90* sear or you will just wear your stock sear to a nub. And need a new sear set as the increased wear on all trigger components wears down the pot metal. A 90* sear requires a new trigger mech.

 

And the M-trigger is specifically a 90* trigger mech. For a reason.

 

The VSR Zero Trigger comes with a piston for the 90* sear.

 

V-triggers come with a piston end for the 90* sear.

 

You do the math. I'm not saying you need a 90* sear for every spring but you can't change your 45* sears to 90*, and if you are upgrading trigger mechs, you go 90*.

 

 

I'm sorry I do not know it all, but I was under the assumption trigger mechanisms are different from sears. I know both the z and m trigger are 90 degrees. I was unsure if the m trigger came with sears or not. I do not see where I supported 45 degree sears though.

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The most accurate airsoft gun I've ever owned was a stock Tokyo Marui VSR10. It didn't shoot far, but every single shot was dead on. You get what you pay for, airsoft isn't a magical land where cheap knockoffs come with fairy dust sprinkled all over them.

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So I've decided to get the VSR-10 Pro, but thats about all I've decided so far. It's winter, so I figure this is the best time to get some upgrades. I've read some guides that say PDI has the best TBBs. I would like to get a Laylax SP 170, 190, or an EdGI SP01 spring. I need to know what spring guide works with the parts I'm going to order. If I had a pretty decent budget ( $600 or so) what parts would give me te best results? The whole sears, cylinder, trigger mech thing confuses me.

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I'm sorry I do not know it all, but I was under the assumption trigger mechanisms are different from sears. I know both the z and m trigger are 90 degrees. I was unsure if the m trigger came with sears or not. I do not see where I supported 45 degree sears though.

 

 

Never mind. I don't know what I was responding to :a-confused:

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Bear in mind that the tan-colored Pro-Sniper is actually a real shock.

 

Did you actually purchase one and find it had weights on the piston, or are you just going off of some assumption said on the internet?

 

I bought one when Redwolf first released it. It was the exact same as my old VSR, only it came with a Tan stock and fake .308 round. It is not a real shock....

 

the problem that plagues me with my L96, (different I know, still applicable) is that the spring guide and spring have to be the same brand, because PDI has their 9mm spring, Laylax is 7 mm, etc. they are all different sizes, so watch out for that.

 

That's why springs and spring guides are marked 7mm or 9mm...

 

You do not have to buy the same brand for both. I in fact prefer 9mm Laylax springs in the 150-170 range instead of PDI ~300% springs fitted over any brand spring guide. As long as it has bearings at it's base.

Edited by Wonko The Sane

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Did you actually purchase one and find it had weights on the piston, or are you just going off of some assumption said on the internet?

 

Tokyo Marui VSR-10 Pro-Sniper Version (TAN)

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/tokyo-marui-vsr...ersion-tan.html

 

From the product description:

-- Bolt-Action "Real Shock" Airsoft Sniper Rifle

"REAL SHOCK" Technology make this rifle with "Recoil" Feel during each shot

 

...or this:

 

Tokyo Marui VSR-10 (Tan)

http://www.precisionairsoft.com/Tokyo-Maru...an-p/ssr010.htm

 

From the product description:

Best part about this rifle is the recoil felt when firing the gun. Each shot is accompanied by a satisfying solid jolt and "clunk".

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Tokyo Marui VSR-10 Pro-Sniper Version (TAN)

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/tokyo-marui-vsr...ersion-tan.html

 

From the product description:

-- Bolt-Action "Real Shock" Airsoft Sniper Rifle

"REAL SHOCK" Technology make this rifle with "Recoil" Feel during each shot

 

...or this:

 

Tokyo Marui VSR-10 (Tan)

http://www.precisionairsoft.com/Tokyo-Maru...an-p/ssr010.htm

 

From the product description:

Best part about this rifle is the recoil felt when firing the gun. Each shot is accompanied by a satisfying solid jolt and "clunk".

 

Ah, so then you just think it is real shock from two websites commonly known to mess up product description a lot.

 

I wouldn't ever trust a e hobby asia product description. Especially when they say bolt actions are GBB with V.2 gearboxes in them... like they have before.

 

So again, you base facts off of internet assumptions.

 

The tan VSR's are not real shock. I have owned them and can confirm this.

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Okay, so back to the topic. Upgrades? My list so far is the TM VSR-10 pro black version. Upgrades so far... PDI TBB 6.01 or 6.03 (suggestions? I know the 6.01 would require good quality bb's), Laylax 170/190 spring, or EdGI SP01 spring (rated for about 600 fps, noobie says), and an M trig. Any ideas for sears, a cylinder, spring guides that would fit, or a piston? I think this list is pretty complete, but I might have some extra things. Any more input would be greatly appreciated.

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Okay, so back to the topic. Upgrades? My list so far is the TM VSR-10 pro black version. Upgrades so far... PDI TBB 6.01 or 6.03 (suggestions? I know the 6.01 would require good quality bb's), Laylax 170/190 spring, or EdGI SP01 spring (rated for about 600 fps, noobie says), and an M trig. Any ideas for sears, a cylinder, spring guides that would fit, or a piston? I think this list is pretty complete, but I might have some extra things. Any more input would be greatly appreciated.

 

190 may be a little over kill..

 

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Won't need sears if you go with a zero trigger, or a piston.

Not sure if the m trigger has sears with it, think it does, but it doesn't come with a piston.

The sears are inside the trigger mech and are not a seperate part all trigger mechs come with sears. The m-trig does not come with a piston I will confirm that. I have ordered one.

 

The most accurate airsoft gun I've ever owned was a stock Tokyo Marui VSR10. It didn't shoot far, but every single shot was dead on. You get what you pay for, airsoft isn't a magical land where cheap knockoffs come with fairy dust sprinkled all over them.

Dude I seriousley don't get why you are so negative on these forums. Every post you make amounts to useless crap. Take it elsewhere im really tired of it.

 

Okay, so back to the topic. Upgrades? My list so far is the TM VSR-10 pro black version. Upgrades so far... PDI TBB 6.01 or 6.03 (suggestions? I know the 6.01 would require good quality bb's), Laylax 170/190 spring, or EdGI SP01 spring (rated for about 600 fps, noobie says), and an M trig. Any ideas for sears, a cylinder, spring guides that would fit, or a piston? I think this list is pretty complete, but I might have some extra things. Any more input would be greatly appreciated.

I would get this:

Pdi 6.01 TBB

Laylax 150 ( when you get all the upgrades in the fps will go higher than 500) 600 fps that is illegal for play. The most is 550fps for snipers.

Keep bucking as TM it is good I hear

Noobies M-trigger

Polarstar 90 degree piston

Polarstar stainless steel spring guide for Vsr-10

Polarstar cylinder head

Pdi barrel spacers or Homemade paper ones

 

 

190 may be a little over kill..

Correct a 150 is about good I have found.

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I agree with Youngguns and Viper999. its not all about power bro. especially since you are just starting on the role. im not tring to judge you or anything but I would suggest you field your rifle first with whatever upgrades you can install first and try the role. after which, you can start upgrading from there. might I suggest you follow the Accuracy-Durabilty-Power upgrade path so you don't prematurely break your rifle.

 

just a little correction also on the EdGI spring. SP01 is rated 550fps. SP02 is the one rated for 600fps. I know because I have both.

 

Goodluck and happy huntinG!

 

 

 

Edited by S n a k e™

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I would get this:

Pdi 6.01 TBB

Laylax 150 ( when you get all the upgrades in the fps will go higher than 500) 600 fps that is illegal for play. The most is 550fps for snipers.

Keep bucking as TM it is good I hear

Noobies M-trigger

Polarstar 90 degree piston

Polarstar stainless steel spring guide for Vsr-10

Polarstar cylinder head

Pdi barrel spacers or Homemade paper ones

 

Thank you Viper. Any other ideas? Any other part ideas? Any idea how much all of this would total?

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I agree with Youngguns and Viper999. its not all about power bro. especially since you are just starting on the role. im not tring to judge you or anything but I would suggest you field your rifle first with whatever upgrades you can install first and try the role. after which, you can start upgrading from there. might I suggest you follow the Accuracy-Durabilty-Power upgrade path so you don't prematurely break your rifle.

 

just a little correction also on the EdGI spring. SP01 is rated 550fps. SP02 is the one rated for 600fps. I know because I have both.

 

Goodluck and happy huntinG!

 

 

Thank you Viper. Any other ideas? Any other part ideas? Any idea how much all of this would total?

Yes kemp here is another idea. Just start with disassembling your TM cleaning then relubing, and cleaning your barrel. Make sure to use 100percent silicone oil. Then buy some quality bbs. Then tune your rifle to perfection maybe do some free DIY mods. Then go and field it a few times and try out the role of a sniper. I know you have probably heard this alot but it is true. I upgraded my Bar-10 fully, and then I went and skirmished it and to my suprise I don't really like being a sniper all that much. So for now I am switching to a designated marksman. After you figure if you want to be a sniper or not you can either upgrade your gun or sell it if you don't want to be a sniper and not lose much money. Pm me with any other questions.

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