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Sniper Rifle Advice

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Okay guys, I've been a long time reader of the forum but this is my first real post so if I'm doing anything wrong let me know and I'll correct that as quickly as possible. I'm looking for some advice concerning what I should look for in a good snipers system. I do a lot of milsim stuff, and getting into sniping/dmr is something I have always wanted to do. My first attempt at a sniper rifle though turned out not so great. Back in my newbie days of airsoft I went out and got myself a UTG Super 9 Pro. Let me just say now, it isn't an amazing weapon system. It does okay, and usually I manage to do pretty well with it, but it requires patience and more than a little frustration when you fire multiple times at a target only to have no idea where your rounds are missing because you can't see the black .25 or .3 gram BB's. I understand that airsoft is an imprecise sport- I know quite a bit about real world ballistics, so I don't need a lecture on the inaccuracies of smoothbore airsoft rifles. What I do need, however, if for someone in the community to offer advice as to what I should do next for a sniper system that will give me more reliability in terms of accuracy and round on target. I have the possible option to sell the Super9 to trade up for a better system; my real question is, are either the Echo 1 ASR or the Echo 1 M28 worth trading up for? I don't want to waste my money on another mediocre system- if that is all I will get out of these 2 I will simply wait and save up for a gas m14ebr or something similar. But in terms of relative cheapness, will either of the Echo1 systems be worth the hassle to trade up to?

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The M28 is a newer rifle that I've been hearing about, and I'll be getting it sometime in the near future. I can't say much about it, however, since I haven't handled it or owned it. Apparently, though, it shoots at around 500 FPS (much higher than other stock sniper rifles) and comes with a 6.03mm tight bore barrel.

 

The ASR, on the other hand, is "meh" at best. A friend of mine recently got one and we were able to field it for several hours. The retractable stock was loose when he got it, so the guy at the airsoft field spent a good hour fixing it. Then, in the middle of the game, it came loose again and fell off. To access the screw holding the stock in place, you have to take the whole lower assembly off. The bipod is okay, but it felt flimsy and the hop up is hard to adjust. I spent some time shooting the rifle while under pressure, and I couldn't land any of my shots because the hop up was out of whack.

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The M28 is a newer rifle that I've been hearing about, and I'll be getting it sometime in the near future. I can't say much about it, however, since I haven't handled it or owned it. Apparently, though, it shoots at around 500 FPS (much higher than other stock sniper rifles) and comes with a 6.03mm tight bore barrel.

 

The ASR, on the other hand, is "meh" at best. A friend of mine recently got one and we were able to field it for several hours. The retractable stock was loose when he got it, so the guy at the airsoft field spent a good hour fixing it. Then, in the middle of the game, it came loose again and fell off. To access the screw holding the stock in place, you have to take the whole lower assembly off. The bipod is okay, but it felt flimsy and the hop up is hard to adjust. I spent some time shooting the rifle while under pressure, and I couldn't land any of my shots because the hop up was out of whack.

 

Right I hear that. I didn't know that the m28 came with a 6.03 barrel stock. thats definetly a huge plus if it makes the effect on accuracy that those usually have. let me know if you get a chance to handle the weapon or if you find out more

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Okay guys, I've been a long time reader of the forum but this is my first real post so if I'm doing anything wrong let me know and I'll correct that as quickly as possible. I'm looking for some advice concerning what I should look for in a good snipers system. I do a lot of milsim stuff, and getting into sniping/dmr is something I have always wanted to do. My first attempt at a sniper rifle though turned out not so great. Back in my newbie days of airsoft I went out and got myself a UTG Super 9 Pro. Let me just say now, it isn't an amazing weapon system. It does okay, and usually I manage to do pretty well with it, but it requires patience and more than a little frustration when you fire multiple times at a target only to have no idea where your rounds are missing because you can't see the black .25 or .3 gram BB's. I understand that airsoft is an imprecise sport- I know quite a bit about real world ballistics, so I don't need a lecture on the inaccuracies of smoothbore airsoft rifles. What I do need, however, if for someone in the community to offer advice as to what I should do next for a sniper system that will give me more reliability in terms of accuracy and round on target. I have the possible option to sell the Super9 to trade up for a better system; my real question is, are either the Echo 1 ASR or the Echo 1 M28 worth trading up for? I don't want to waste my money on another mediocre system- if that is all I will get out of these 2 I will simply wait and save up for a gas m14ebr or something similar. But in terms of relative cheapness, will either of the Echo1 systems be worth the hassle to trade up to?

 

If you want to get into the field of sniping, you aren't looking for a good 'gun'. Those don't exist unless you get up into the $800-1000 range like the Cheytac rifles.

 

What you do want to look for is a good 'platform'. A basic gun that can take upgrades that will allow you to get good accuracy and range. You do not want to get a gun that only recently came out. That is pretty much monetary suicide unless it is a complete 'clone' of a popular platform.

 

A clone is a direct copy of a more expensive airsoft gun. Usually with less quality parts, so it won't work as well out of the box. However, because it is made the exact same way, you can take any part from the original and put it into the clone. Therefore, it can take any upgrades of the more expensive gun. With sniping, upgrades are everything for a gun. Expect to replace ever single piece in your gun before it becomes effective. However, when it becomes effective, it will become REALLY effective. Fully upgraded sniper rifles can shoot almost 300 feet, a very far range compared to AEGs and GBBs. The problem is choosing the correct platform. The most popular 2 platforms are the MK96 and the VSR-10. Therefore, they will have the most and the best upgrades for them.

 

The Echo 1 ASR says that it "can take MK96 upgrade parts". However, that could mean anything. It could mean only the cylinder is the same, or the barrel, or just the trigger. Unless the manufacturers say "complete clone of..." then I would research into that more.

 

The Echo 1 M28 is a partial clone too. On the front page it says "It has certain parts that are compatible with VSR-10 parts". That means the same thing.

 

You want to find a complete clone of a popular gun. I would suggest looking into the BAR-10 rifle and the UTG L96. Those are very popular rifles that are complete clones of the VSR-10 and MK96.

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If you want to get into the field of sniping, you aren't looking for a good 'gun'. Those don't exist unless you get up into the $800-1000 range like the Cheytac rifles.

 

What you do want to look for is a good 'platform'. A basic gun that can take upgrades that will allow you to get good accuracy and range. You do not want to get a gun that only recently came out. That is pretty much monetary suicide unless it is a complete 'clone' of a popular platform.

 

A clone is a direct copy of a more expensive airsoft gun. Usually with less quality parts, so it won't work as well out of the box. However, because it is made the exact same way, you can take any part from the original and put it into the clone. Therefore, it can take any upgrades of the more expensive gun. With sniping, upgrades are everything for a gun. Expect to replace ever single piece in your gun before it becomes effective. However, when it becomes effective, it will become REALLY effective. Fully upgraded sniper rifles can shoot almost 300 feet, a very far range compared to AEGs and GBBs. The problem is choosing the correct platform. The most popular 2 platforms are the MK96 and the VSR-10. Therefore, they will have the most and the best upgrades for them.

 

The Echo 1 ASR says that it "can take MK96 upgrade parts". However, that could mean anything. It could mean only the cylinder is the same, or the barrel, or just the trigger. Unless the manufacturers say "complete clone of..." then I would research into that more.

 

The Echo 1 M28 is a partial clone too. On the front page it says "It has certain parts that are compatible with VSR-10 parts". That means the same thing.

 

You want to find a complete clone of a popular gun. I would suggest looking into the BAR-10 rifle and the UTG L96. Those are very popular rifles that are complete clones of the VSR-10 and MK96.

 

thanks for what seems like good advice. im hearing that a lot these days from people ive been talking to. now, what is your opinion on gas rifles, specifically like an m14ebr or something of that nature? ive heard some crazy stories about the WE m14 pulling off some sick shots...or is that rumor?

 

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The Echo 1 M28 is a partial clone too. On the front page it says "It has certain parts that are compatible with VSR-10 parts". That means the same thing.

 

You want to find a complete clone of a popular gun. I would suggest looking into the BAR-10 rifle and the UTG L96. Those are very popular rifles that are complete clones of the VSR-10 and MK96.

If my research is correct, the M28 takes VSR barrels, hop up buckings, hop up arms, sears, springs, and spring guides. The main VSR internals that are incompatible with the M28 are the cylinder, trigger, and hop up unit.

 

The BAR-10 is one hell of an upgrade platform, if you can afford the correct upgrades. You would need to replace a majority of the internals to get it up to par.

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thanks for what seems like good advice. im hearing that a lot these days from people ive been talking to. now, what is your opinion on gas rifles, specifically like an m14ebr or something of that nature? ive heard some crazy stories about the WE m14 pulling off some sick shots...or is that rumor?

 

It's not necessarily a 'rumor', but I can't really say if it's 'true'.

 

Gas snipers are technically a different side of sniping all together compared to spring. It has it's pros and cons, and I am not really the person qualified to tell you of them. However, I do know a few things:

 

Gas snipers are a lot harder to upgrade. Therefore, only the expensive $500+ gas snipers are actually worth buying. You can only really buy new barrels and buckings for them.

Gas snipers need an HPA rig, otherwise they will be much less consistent compared to a spring rifle. However, with an HPA rig they are generally more consistent than a spring. However, they are very difficult to make and impossible to buy. Plus, many fields ban their use due to the ability to set the FPS on your gun a lot higher.

 

However, I've heard they are more quiet (not a problem with a spring if your target is 100+ feet away), and I am assuming the bolt would be a lot easier to pull considering there is no spring. Some probably even have the ability for semi-automatic fire.

 

I personally would never buy a gas sniper, just because I don't like the idea of constantly needing gas (I actually bought an AEP for my sidearm rather than a gas pistol). However, because of the price of them you will be certain you are getting a good rifle.

Edited by Neotyguy40

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If my research is correct, the M28 takes VSR barrels, hop up buckings, hop up arms, sears, springs, and spring guides. The main VSR internals that are incompatible with the M28 are the cylinder, trigger, and hop up unit.

Yes, all the functional parts in the trigger group are VSR compatible.

 

But you missed the piston as another unique non-compatible item.

 

We're hoping that Echo 1 will soon issue a M28 upgrade kit similar to the one they did for the ASR.

 

BTW, apparently the TSD SD97, which is fully UTG L96-compatible, shoots even hotter OTB.

Edited by verisimilitude

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Yes, all the functional parts in the trigger group are VSR compatible.

 

But you missed the piston as another unique non-compatible item.

 

We're hoping that Echo 1 will soon issue a M28 upgrade kit similar to the one they did for the ASR.

 

BTW, apparently the TSD SD97, which is fully UTG L96-compatible, shoots even hotter OTB.

 

ive looked into the TSD since you mentioned it and im liking what I see. the upgrade capability seems very straightforward and like a lot of people have done it so I wouldnt be forging out on my own there. anybody have any experience with the TSD they can offer?

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ive looked into the TSD since you mentioned it and im liking what I see. the upgrade capability seems very straightforward and like a lot of people have done it so I wouldnt be forging out on my own there. anybody have any experience with the TSD they can offer?

 

Bad OTB experience and is a PITA until you upgrade the cylinder. My buddy wanted to get the same gun as I did, but he bought the TSD version. Never have I seen so many slam-fires and stuck springs in a single gun before. Not to mention the magazine kept getting stuck and the stock isn't very comfortable.

 

However, the scope is a mil-dot, the outer-barrel has nothing wrong with it and it is a full VSR-10 clone. If you are looking for a VSR-10 clone and you can't afford the BAR-10, I would say buy it.

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As others have said, you don't buy an accurate and reliable bolt-action airsoft gun. You make one.

 

You start with the basic platform, whether it be a Remington 700 imitator as the VSR-10/Bar-10/M28, or a Type 96/L96/SD97.

 

The cheaper the base gun, the more money you will have to spend to get it accurate and reliable. A BAR-10 is a common start because they are cheap and compatible, but unless you are upgrading everything at once you would be better off spending more money on a higher quality gun like the M28 or VSR-10.

 

You are going to have to disassemble, clean, lube, adjust, and modify the gun to get it to shoot straight before you purchase any upgrades. Unless there is some reason your Super 9 won't take mods, you might as well start there. Take it apart and reassemble it if you haven't yet, making sure every screw is tight and the hop-up is shimmed to remove slop. Do all the free mods first such as barrel spacers, foaming the stock, etc. Then maybe a TM hop-up and barrel, or some other company's combo. A new hop-up bucking. Don't upgrade the spring until you are ready to upgrade the trigger mech. And at that point you will want to replace the piston, and then the cylinder while you are at it. At some point it might be worthwhile to find a nicer stock, maybe buy a used gun that needs work and swap parts around.

 

But you are not going to be able to open a box and start nailing 150' headshots time after time using whatever BB's you have laying around no matter what gun you buy.

 

And honestly, crappy ammo is a larger factor in airsoft inaccuracy than the smooth bore. Accuracy shot to shot is a function of consistency, and you need high quality ammo to get consistent shots. I like G&G .28's, but there are others - do a search. It's pointless to use crap BB's, especially when upgrading the gun.

Edited by 40oz

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As others have said, you don't buy an accurate and reliable bolt-action airsoft gun. You make one.

 

You start with the basic platform, whether it be a Remington 700 imitator as the VSR-10/Bar-10/M28, or a Type 96/L96/SD97.

 

The cheaper the base gun, the more money you will have to spend to get it accurate and reliable. A BAR-10 is a common start because they are cheap and compatible, but unless you are upgrading everything at once you would be better off spending more money on a higher quality gun like the M28 or VSR-10.

 

You are going to have to disassemble, clean, lube, adjust, and modify the gun to get it to shoot straight before you purchase any upgrades. Unless there is some reason your Super 9 won't take mods, you might as well start there. Take it apart and reassemble it if you haven't yet, making sure every screw is tight and the hop-up is shimmed to remove slop. Do all the free mods first such as barrel spacers, foaming the stock, etc. Then maybe a TM hop-up and barrel, or some other company's combo. A new hop-up bucking. Don't upgrade the spring until you are ready to upgrade the trigger mech. And at that point you will want to replace the piston, and then the cylinder while you are at it. At some point it might be worthwhile to find a nicer stock, maybe buy a used gun that needs work and swap parts around.

 

But you are not going to be able to open a box and start nailing 150' headshots time after time using whatever BB's you have laying around no matter what gun you buy.

 

And honestly, crappy ammo is a larger factor in airsoft inaccuracy than the smooth bore. Accuracy shot to shot is a function of consistency, and you need high quality ammo to get consistent shots. I like G&G .28's, but there are others - do a search. It's pointless to use crap BB's, especially when upgrading the gun.

 

Just adding to what you said:

 

If you really don't want to upgrade your Super 9, but would rather get a different gun to start out with, then it isn't all about getting the cheapest gun possible. For example, a good comfortable stock can cost upwards of $300, but if you bought a gun that already comes with a good stock (for example, the BAR-10), then that would also save a lot of money. You want to try and get a gun with quality parts that you won't replace. Magazine catch, outer-barrel, stock, receiver, bolt handle, etc. are all pieces that don't necessarily improve accuracy or range, but are good to have quality versions of them.

 

But yes, he is definitely right about the ammo. Get some biovals or bioshots. The general consensus seems to be that they have the best quality compared to other BBs like Madbull. I personally never tried them, so don't take my word on it, but everyone who has used them are happy.

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I was looking at the m28 and the ASR, decided to go with the ASR as I had a bunch of aps-2 top notch parts laying around. Everything was a perfect fit. I bedded a 590mm barrel I had from my m99 in hot wax, completely eliminating 100%of interior barrel vibrations. Custom silencer I built for it....Spring guide piston and piston head all FF stuff. Retightened that wobbly azz stock, and now that sniper is a monster. I'll do a shooting accuracy test with it and video, but from already shooting it upgraded it hits the same hole over and over again at 75 ft full clip no bs.

 

The m28 and the ASR both suffer from one main issue when thinking about upgrading the rifle....thats the cylinder, they both have the same garbage press fit bolt handle guide boss(grooved and pressed to hold the bolt handle attatchment piece to the cylinder)

 

That is the main weak point of both rifles, and if you're going to go with a more powerful spring for either rifle, the cylinder should be changed out to something that will not tear like paper after 500 rounds. You will go to shoot it and you'll smack yourself in the face with the bolt because it just ripped off the azz end of the cylinder.

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ive looked into the TSD since you mentioned it and im liking what I see. the upgrade capability seems very straightforward and like a lot of people have done it so I wouldnt be forging out on my own there. anybody have any experience with the TSD they can offer?

 

I have a thread here that kind of highlights the strengths and wekanesses of the TSD SD97:

 

Airsoft forum won't let me post the url, so just take the sapces out, and it will work after a cut and paste into your browser:

 

http://w w w .airsoftforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23793

 

Shooting 600fps with .20's and 435 fps with .43's

 

it is a beast out of the box. Check the thread, as I have videos embedded in it.

 

Did I mention that I love the rifle? Picked it up from Pyramis Air for $169 after using their 10% off coupon in January. My youtube channel also has a number of videos dedicated to the ECHO1 M28. I am currently waiting on one of the new metal magazines so I can review it for my M28 thread that I have at Arnies.

Edited by DRAGON64

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http://www.airsoftforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23793 It took the URL just fine, but it says it doesnt exist. I also put it in a browser address bar and it was a no go.

 

Is this http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/TSD-SD97...amp;hl=TSD+SD97 the link you ment?

Edited by Ronin055

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Yes, all the functional parts in the trigger group are VSR compatible.

 

But you missed the piston as another unique non-compatible item.

 

We're hoping that Echo 1 will soon issue a M28 upgrade kit similar to the one they did for the ASR.

 

BTW, apparently the TSD SD97, which is fully UTG L96-compatible, shoots even hotter OTB.

 

Hi, I'd like to add to this that the internals (springguide and piston) work in the M28,. You have to change both of them though, not just the piston.

This thus means that the VSR parts DO work in a M28. It is up and firing here so yeah, it should work for everyone.

I just upgraded to pdi sears and am now going to order a better piston for it.

 

 

 

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