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major9

The adaptive role weapon

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Alright guys, I have finally gotten sick of my AK obsession, and will probably be selling most of them off.

I have begun plans for the adaptive role weapon.

The idea here, is to have one lower, and two upper reciever.

I already have a gearbox on its way (G&G 8mm shell with prommy compression parts, SHS bearings, XYT gears, element HS motor....all for $35 shipped).

Anyways, I need some ideas of how to make this gun truly adaptive.

As far as externals, I have a trade in the works for two M4 barrels, and an MOE hand-guard. I have decided to go with the G&P Magpul metal body, and will have to find another upper later on. The gun will also have a MOE grip, and out-fitted with 12 and 16 awg wiring, XT60 connectors, and an HS5 mosfet.

A few questions I had: Does anyone know of M4's with quick change spring (guides)? If not, does anyone know of a mod that can accomplish that?

Here is a basic parts list so far:

Externals:

G&P Magpul metal body (with an extra upper)

Magpul PTS (black) MOE grip

Magpul MOE stock (black)

 

1st upper:

Madbull PWS Diablo

Will switch the flash-hider with the Gold Noveske Amplifier when I so desire.

Going for a Short/Mid-Length rifle for close-quarters and light-weight load outs.

 

2nd upper:

Madbull JG Rifle Front End Kit with 12in Handguard

King Arms 250mm silencer

RAMBO Bipod (from EHA)

Going for a ridiculously long gun. Something that HAS to be used for long range shots it so huge.

 

Internals:

Well, I already have a few things, so I'll start there.

Gearbox:

G&G GB Shell. Already have, but will probably change to a Modify Torus or SHS CNC'd box when I have some extra money on my hands

SHS 8mm ball-bearings. Again, I already have them, but will change them to Modify 8mm Bushings when I get the chance.

XYT gears. Already have. I plan on switching them out for RiotSC GSBs later on.

3One HT motor. May try out an Element HS motor as-well.

12 Awg wiring in the pistol grip and out the back, 16 awg wiring in the gearbox.

Hunterseeker5 Mosfet

XT60 Connectors

SHS V2 Spring Guide

SHS 15 tooth piston

ARS 3G POM Duo Head set (or something along the lines of that)

SHS Cylinder. Ported for ~450mm barrel length. More on this later.

AJAX STS

SHS M4 Air-Nozzle

SHS Springs. I'm going to buy a full set. From M90 to M190. I will never use more than M170 or so because of motor restraints.

 

Barrel Assembly:

G&P metal hop-up unit (x2)

Flat hop nubs courtesy of Krap101

Prommy 6.03 ~300mm (7in) and 455mm barrel.

KWA 2GX bucking (for CQB build)

Guarder 70degree bucking (for DMRish build)

Both nubs will have dremeled/sanded down nubs.

 

Battery:

I will buy 3. Both will be ran in a battery bag.

Turnigy 7.4v ~4000mAh 45c/90c battery

Turnigy 11.1v ~4000mAh 45c/90c battery

The last one I will probably never use...jsut for kicks: Turnigy 14.8v ~4000mAh 45c/90c battery

 

Mods:

God, to many to count. All the compression mods possible (see Soccer77's thread for a basic list), radiused corners, AOE, Shimmed, Motor height, Glued Bushing, Broke in motor, Soldered motor tabs, Tightened spring guide (god I hate V2 spring guides), Epoxied piston rack in place, Locktite on PH screw, polished cylinder, teflon taped CH, Lube everything nicely, Stretch/heat PH O-ring, shave down tappet plate, Glue air-nozzle, teflon taped bucking, stabilized barrel, etc, etc.

 

Thats the basic idea. The reason for a cylinder to accomodate a 455mm barrel is because, when running the CQB upper (with the noveske amplifier), the more excess air coming out the barrel, the louder the pop....and I like my CQB gun LOUD.

 

Tell me what you guys think. I'm looking for any and all ideas/criticism (not a flame war however), compliments....you get the point. Let me know what you guys think.

 

Thanks,

Major9

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I thought about doing something similar a while ago with an ICS M4 or M16 as the base weapon, and picking up a spare ICS upper and having two different upper gearboxes in addition to the two different upper receivers. The idea was to try to imitate the LWRC SABR in which you just pop the pins and put on the upper that best fits the situation I'd have had; I planned on a a ~300 FPS for closer up and spraying and a maybe ~450 FPS or so upper for semi automatic and longer range shots, both with the appropriate barrels and hop up units etc.

 

Since you're not going to be doing that though; it'll probably end up much much more complex than what I had in mind. Unfortunately I do not know of any M4's/M16's with a quick change spring system; and I don't know if the upper of an AR-15 would allow it with any space.

 

Sounds awesome though, like all of your ideas. Good luck.

Edited by Kamikaz3

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This build perks my interest...... :)

 

I wish to see how it all comes together.

 

Are the SHS Spring Guides any good? ( I usually stick to King Arms/Systema/G&P)

 

Good call the AJAX STS, it won't let you down :) I really wish I could use one on the G&P SR25, but radiusing will have to do...

 

Hmm an HS5 MOSFET....I figured you would go with the AWS-Stealth Raptor :P I know I am still waiting on mine to come in for my new DMR project!

 

 

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I think it would be better to have the same upper and different lowers. I know it would be more expensive, but the same barrel length could be used for both the long range and cqb. Just switching out the flash hider for a mock silencer will make it super long if you want it to be.

 

But with different lowers you could have one tuned for CQB, and the other tuned for field/DMR work, whichever it may be.

 

This is what I would do at least. I've found the flat hop applicable in all situations, and use it as such.

 

Anyway, JDM_WAAAT has a build similar to this, 2 KWA lowers, and 3 uppers to switch in and out between what he needs to do for the day or wants to do for the day.

 

So what made you hate Aks? was it the V3?

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I thought about doing something similar a while ago with an ICS M4 or M16 as the base weapon, and picking up a spare ICS upper and having two different upper gearboxes in addition to the two different upper receivers. The idea was to try to imitate the LWRC SABR in which you just pop the pins and put on the upper that best fits the situation I'd have had; I planned on a a ~300 FPS for closer up and spraying and a maybe ~450 FPS or so upper for semi automatic and longer range shots, both with the appropriate barrels and hop up units etc.

-snip-

I thought about taking the ICS route as well, but I'm really not a fan of any of their products. To many design flaws and incompatibility parts. The idea behind this gun, Is that I could be shooting 300fps on minute, swap springs, and be shooting 600+fps (NOT that it is needed, and it would NOT be used on people (there, happy namloot?))

 

This build perks my interest...... :)

 

I wish to see how it all comes together.

 

Are the SHS Spring Guides any good? ( I usually stick to King Arms/Systema/G&P)

 

Good call the AJAX STS, it won't let you down :) I really wish I could use one on the G&P SR25, but radiusing will have to do...

 

Hmm an HS5 MOSFET....I figured you would go with the AWS-Stealth Raptor :P I know I am still waiting on mine to come in for my new DMR project!

It will more than likely take till the end of the summer, possibly more...we'll see.

 

I love SHS spring guides. They do there job, and are incredibly strong. They do what spring guides do :)

 

Yes, the idea behind this build is total reliability and flexibility. I need this gun to be ready for anything.

 

I love HS5 mosfets, the strongest out there. No need to "slack off" and just get a replacement trigger unit....:)

 

I think it would be better to have the same upper and different lowers. I know it would be more expensive, but the same barrel length could be used for both the long range and cqb. Just switching out the flash hider for a mock silencer will make it super long if you want it to be.

 

But with different lowers you could have one tuned for CQB, and the other tuned for field/DMR work, whichever it may be.

 

This is what I would do at least. I've found the flat hop applicable in all situations, and use it as such.

 

Anyway, JDM_WAAAT has a build similar to this, 2 KWA lowers, and 3 uppers to switch in and out between what he needs to do for the day or wants to do for the day.

 

So what made you hate Aks? was it the V3?

As unrealistic as that is, I see what your saying. I have had some ideas as to making a quick change spring guide system for the V2....we'll see.

 

I love Flat Hop as well, though you need heavy bbs once you pass 350 fps.

 

KWA...grrr.....No, I actually I have seen his setup, and it is very nice. Almost to much parts....he has enough for 2 1/2 M4s....If I had that many, I would actually build 2 M4s :)

 

As far as AK's go...I still think V3's are the best platform for upgrading I have ever seen. They actual gearbox is incredibly sturdy and easy to work with (though I still like P90's trigger system more). I just got sick of holding them, and staring at them. But, on the bright side, I can sell them to fund this project.

 

Any other comment/suggestions, please let me know guys.

Thanks,

Major9

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^yeah but I mean if you're getting multiple lowers you might as well just build multiple guns. Or at least that's the way I see it. I don't think he's looking to get the absolute best dmr or best cqb gun, but just one lower that does all of the jobs well enough. It's a more elegant method of owning only 1 gun while being able to play multiple situations. I wanted to do this build too but I don't even have time for my current stuff.

 

another suggestion that I thought I would be cool, if you color coded your mags with like red tape and fill those with like .25's instead of .2's so when you switch uppers for outdoor play you'll be able to get some more accuracy.

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another suggestion that I thought I would be cool, if you color coded your mags with like red tape and fill those with like .25's instead of .2's so when you switch uppers for outdoor play you'll be able to get some more accuracy.

Thats actually a great idea. It would be more along the lines of .25s and .3s...I'm not sure.

I'm actually considering the 2 lowers idea....I just feel like I'm building two guns though...

I just need to get that V2 quick change plan worked out, and all will be well.

Hmm...I might try this gearbox...

Let me know what you guys think. I really don't want to make two guns....

Thanks,

Major9

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Well, I think if you just had one with say, an M140, and the other with an M110 or so, you could just get an Element motor, which is both high-speed and torque, and run them both. Keep in mind though, it won't be as effective as a specialized weapon in either field. G&G makes cheap upper receivers for their CM BB for longer and shorter barrels, their only $60 and I think compatible with any AR lower receiver. I still think it would be easier with 2 lower receivers and one upper. You could try to get a G&G Fn2000 or SCAR gearbox, as I think they both have adjustable spring settings, and I'm sure some modifications could be done to make it capable of heavier adjustments, like 350-500fps.

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Well, I am plan on having this gun with one lower and a quick change spring gearbox, either made myself or pre-made and purchased.

Here is the thing:

A 3One HT motor can pull up to an M170 on standard ratio gears. It can also pull from <m150 at over 30 rps on my measly 50amp continous battery. So, All I have to do, is swap the uppers and the spring, and I'm set-up for either CQB or long-range. I don't know WHY anyone would need over 30 rps for CQB, and I can always plug in the good old 14.8v when running high-powered spring.

Thanks for the suggestions.

-Major9

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Well, I've recently been putting my G&P M170 motor to the limit, and have found that I was able to pull a Modify S170 at 20rps on a 2200mah 20c 11.1v, the gun was putting out 4J of power and the motor is still running strong. Depending on where you look, the G&P M170 may be cheaper than the 3One motor. I also want to note to those G&P Pinion gear haters out there, that I'm still using my stock pinion gear.

 

Using the same battery, I clocked 33rp on an M150.

 

I can understand how building two lowers would feel like building two gun. That's fine, your stuff. I am interested in that gearbox though. I've seen them before, but never in a build, I've always been curious as to how well they work and how well they hold up.

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Here's a v2 gearbox with quick change spring.... http://tigertacticalairsoft.com/complete-b...4m16-p-309.html

 

EDIT: I didn't see that you had posted a link for a gearbox with quick change spring already. ^ this one is cheaper though and looks like the same thing :P

 

On another note, couldn't you just use different barrel lengths as well. Keep a full cylinder and use a shorter barrel for cqb, which should lower the fps significantly, then use a longer barrel that matches the cylinder and you could avoid changing springs. Unless you're really wanting huge variances between the cqb and field gun. I was messing around with a kwa recently and put a full cylinder in one of their cqb r guns and the fps reading w/.25's was 280 with a guarder sp110, changed back to the original cylinder and it went up to 360.

Edited by cypher235

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Well, I've recently been putting my G&P M170 motor to the limit, and have found that I was able to pull a Modify S170 at 20rps on a 2200mah 20c 11.1v, the gun was putting out 4J of power and the motor is still running strong. Depending on where you look, the G&P M170 may be cheaper than the 3One motor. I also want to note to those G&P Pinion gear haters out there, that I'm still using my stock pinion gear.

 

Using the same battery, I clocked 33rp on an M150.

 

I can understand how building two lowers would feel like building two gun. That's fine, your stuff. I am interested in that gearbox though. I've seen them before, but never in a build, I've always been curious as to how well they work and how well they hold up.

I have been considering the G&P M170. And, with such a high discharge battery, It will experience very little ROF drop with a heavier spring. I am aiming for about 35 rps no matter what the spring....maybe I'll just wind my own, as I already have a 3One Torque to mess with.

My G&P pinion has lasted longer than my 3One....so keep that in mind.

 

When I get the gearbox, I will let you know how it performs. That being said, I'm almost leaning towards the SHS CNC's box, because I can have an M4 apart pretty dang quick....but not in the field of course.

 

Here's a v2 gearbox with quick change spring.... http://tigertacticalairsoft.com/complete-b...4m16-p-309.html

 

EDIT: I didn't see that you had posted a link for a gearbox with quick change spring already. ^ this one is cheaper though and looks like the same thing :P

 

On another note, couldn't you just use different barrel lengths as well. Keep a full cylinder and use a shorter barrel for cqb, which should lower the fps significantly, then use a longer barrel that matches the cylinder and you could avoid changing springs. Unless you're really wanting huge variances between the cqb and field gun. I was messing around with a kwa recently and put a full cylinder in one of their cqb r guns and the fps reading w/.25's was 280 with a guarder sp110, changed back to the original cylinder and it went up to 360.

Yes...thats the same box. I would probably buy that because its cheaper.

I could do something like Bore Up set, with a 300mm barrel and a 600mm....I'm not sure. I'd almost rather just run a regular cylinder. I might have it slightly under-ported (like something to support ~363mm), then when I switch uppers, I will rotate the cylinder so the port is covered....I guess it'll just be one huge experiment.

 

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks,

Major9

 

Edit:

Here is a more finalized parts list (I wrote the other while I was half asleep at 1 in the morning).

 

Externals:

G&P Magpul Metal Body

Magpul MOE Grip

Magpul PRS Stock, except in black

Magpul MOE Stock

 

1st Upper:

Madbull PWS Diablo Front End

Madbull Noveske Amplifier (Gold)

Element Replica Eotech

 

2nd Upper:

Madbull JP Rifle (Long) - Will use the barrel at full length

King Arms Lonnnnnnngggg Silencer

A Real Steel Scope of some sort....not sure which one yet.

 

Internals:

Matrix V2 Quick Change GB

-OR-

ACM CNC'd V2 GB - 8mm?

-OR-

Haynes Box if I can find one

RiotSC GSBs

Modify 8mm Bushings

SHS Piston

G&P M170

-OR-

3One High Torqu

-OR-

Teinly HT motor from t-tiger (?)

ARS Cylinder Head

ARS PH

Prometheus Cylinder (Type 0) - Will explain later.

Guarder Tappet Plate

SHS/ACM Spring Guide

ALL SHS Spring (from M100 - M190)

AJAX STS

As for electorincs, I have been considering on of AWS's drop in 'fets (the stealth I think...?) AND an HS5 Mosfet. It would give me the power handling of the HS5 fet, but avoid trigger lock-ups because of the AWS drop-in. That being said, $55 just for a controller to tell the HS5 mosfet how to work is a little steep....

4MM Bullet Plugs.

 

Barrel Assemblies:

CQB Upper:

CNC's Hop-up Chamber

ARS Hop-up Bucking

Flat Nubs courtesy of Krap101

Falcon Rifled Barrel - Won't use the bucking, and will cut down to fit the Madbull front end.

 

DMR Upper:

CNC's Hop-up Chamber

Guarder 70 degree bucking

Flats Nubs from Krap101

Prommetheus 6.05 509mm Barrel - Might go 6.03 should I so desire

 

What do you guys think of this? I will probably purchase one just to try it out.

 

Mags:

Probably will go with Magpul PTS mags, unless someone knows of better ones. I am going to use E-mags for CQB (lighter bbs), and Shorty P-Mags for the DMR setup (HEAVY bbs...either BB B*stard or Hailstorm).

 

Same batteries as listed in the OP.

 

As you can tell by the list, I am attracted shiny CNC'd stuff.

Let me know what you guys think. This is going to be a sweet (but expensive) build.

 

Edited by major9

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Here's a mod I found while skimming asm forums. Quite interesting but probably not what you'd wanna do and it would still require disassembling the m4 to get to the gearbox.

 

DSCN0117.jpg

 

DSCN0118-1.jpg

 

 

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That quick-spring-change gearbox is cheapest over at khmountain, and it is only $14 to ship it to me ($64.99 total), so it can't be much more for you!

 

That build looks sweet... I'd personally run an ICS gun instead of what you are planning as the two separate receivers would already have the springs and such in them and it would also allow diversity in the piston set-up. But to each his own. I personally love the way my Olympic Arms body looks, especially all Magpul'ed up!

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as my sig image shows, I have an adaptive role weapon. it's awesome...when it works. At least you're smart and try to get as many parts as you can from the same manufacturer.

It looks beautiful. I saw your picture thread a while back about it....

 

Anyways, here is a quick update:

JP Rifle Long Kit + JP upper + King Arms Hop-up + Madbull 509mm barrel is shipping out tomorrow. Granted it cost me my beloved high-speed AK...

Tech work has been picking up for the most part, and cash flow has been excpetionally good. I will be ordering/trading for a lower reciever next. I really don't want to have to get the JP lower because its $200....so does anyone know if G&P lowers can mate with JP uppers? What about madbull lowers?

I will the purchase a MOE grip and a stock of some sort (haven't really decided yet). I'm open to suggestions here.

I have a gearbox coming in sometime this week. It is a G&G 8mm + SHS ball bearings + Prommy full cylinder + a few other fun things. I will end up selling it more than likely, but the price was great, so I bought it (did I mention it came with an element motor...?)

I will buy the quick change spring guide from KHmountain. I'll do some stress tests and get back to you guys.

I am not going to buy an airbrake because it does not suit my purposes.

cypher - Yes, that was what I had planned, but I would cut it a bit differently (so you only had to take the upper off).

Thanks guys. Let me know what you think.

-Major9

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because I can have an M4 apart pretty dang quick....but not in the field of course.

 

Why not use different pins to hold the recievers together? If they are just slightly looser than the stock pins, and are connected somehow, then you could build a gun that could switch between an assault rifle and a DMR at will. I am tempted to try this kind of thing out myself. (if I had a two-piece gearbox and the cash to buy an upper reciever. :tongue: )

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Why not use different pins to hold the recievers together? If they are just slightly looser than the stock pins, and are connected somehow, then you could build a gun that could switch between an assault rifle and a DMR at will. I am tempted to try this kind of thing out myself. (if I had a two-piece gearbox and the cash to buy an upper reciever. :tongue: )

Umm....That is basically the idea.

Anyways, I suppose I'll update this plan and say that I have formulated a pretty dang good idea to switch uppers. The CQB will use a ~200mm barrel, and the DMR will use a ~550mm barrel (did I mention how much I the JP rifle stuff?!). I am estimating a 200+ fps difference. The fps will range from 350 fps to 550+ fps. Oh ya, and you don't even have to change the spring. I don't want to reveal just what this system is quite yet (gotta test it first), though crispytechnician knows....and I may run the idea by a few others.

Parts list obtained so far:

JP Front Kit

JP Upper

CA Lower

CA pistol grip

Magpul MOE stock

SHS 15 tooth piston

G&G gearbox shell w/ SHS bushings (selling)

Prommy Cylinder (going to sell)

G&G Cylinder Head (SOLID...but going to sell)

G&G Tappet (selling)

Element HS motor....probably sell, but might keep it.

XYTs....you guessed it, selling...

G&P explosive PH

Azimuth Light weight piston. Weighs less than 7 grams.

Let me know what you guys think. Give me some internal ideas. I may try rewound motors....not sure at this point.

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ah. I thought you were just thinking of changing the receivers out between games. I was thinking of field-swapping the receivers for a multi-purpose role on the field. Of course, that may have been what you were thinking, I just wasn't quite sure.

 

:a-salute:

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This is most interesting. I actually had this going for awhile with an ics set-up. It was absolutely the best thing in the world when it worked, but due to the inconsistency of the ICS parts the set-up was doomed to fail. I had a CQB rifle which utilized a 229mm barrel and was around 350 fps. The second set up used an m4 ris upper with a silencer and a 509mm barrel and ran at 470fps. As I mentioned when it worked it was awesome....

 

I very curious about this seeing as I have 2 rifles built for separate roles, however slimming that to 1 is enticing...

 

Ican see CQB rifle to "VMR" (versatile marksman rifle) but I am skeptical about CQB to DMR and will be pleased to be made into a believer ha ha.

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Got in a JP front end (long), JP Upper, CA body (trashed it however....), Misc. M4 Pistol grip, King Arms hop-up unit, Madbull 509mm barrel, and fitted it with flat-hop. I also got a SHS 15 tooth piston.

I can post pics some-time tomorrow (my internet REALLY sucks), but it is a BEAUTIFUL kit. It looks amazing, and is almost as tall as me (it will be after I get my 250mm silencer :) ).

Next things to be ordered:

Magpul MOE stock (on its way)

Magpul MOE grip

Modify Cylinder set

Guarder SP140 spring

JG M42 motor (the silver magnet one)

Guarder Tappet Plate

 

Later:

RiotSC GSRs (might as well if I'm using the M42)

Madbull metal body

SHS CNC'd V2 Gearbox (the 8mm one)

Magpul (clone) PRS stock

Madbull PWS Diablo front end

Madbull Noveske Amplifier (gold)

Mags and batteries and bbs

 

Let me know what you guys think.

I am aiming for 350 fps when the Diablo upper is on, and 550 fps with the JP upper. I may go up to 400 and 600 just for kicks.

Also, the fps deviation might be more then planned....

-Major9

 

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