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Brenden17

M16 DMR Plan - JG vs. KWA

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Hey everybody. I'm thinking more and more about creating a DMR build, and the posts that you guys keep putting up with your insane ranges are pushing me even more.

 

Here's what I'm wanting out of this gun:

  • Range: At least 250 feet; will probably be using .36g bbs
  • FPS: Around 500FPS, should be capable with the spring and compression mods
  • RPS: 10-12RPS; will most likely either be using semi-automatic or 3 round bursts

 

With my build list so far, and what I've seen from other members' builds, I feel that those performance numbers should easily be met.

 

 

So, the main reason I created this thread was to get your opinion about something: would it be better for me to get a JG base gun and upgrade the internals, or get a KWA base gun and replace two or three internals?

 

I plan on buying the gun with the internals first, fine tune the shooting performance of the gun, and then worry about externals at a later time.

 

Here are my current build lists for each gun, internally with retail prices from ASGI:

 

JG M16 - $160

 

Range:

- Madbull 509mm 6.01mm Precision Barrel ($45)

- 2GX Bucking ($14)

- Prometheus NEO Chamber ($45); Maybe the Madbull Ultimate Chamber? ($40)

- R-Hop

 

Compression:

- Not quite sure what to do here; don't really know what parts are best for higher-fps set-ups [cylinder head, piston head, air nozzle, cylinder, etc.]; it will probably arun me around $60 or so though

 

Mechanical/Durability:

- JG Blue High Torque Motor ($40); any difference between the red and blue motors? Does the JG M16 already come with this motor?

- SHS 18:1 Gears ($18); I feel that there's not really any need to go high-torque or anything with the gears

- SHS 14 Tooth Piston ($13)

- M140/SP150 Spring (~$15); probably go G&G here

 

Electric:

- Extreme-Fire Panther MOSFET ($95); I already have one, that's the only reason I plan on using it; might save it for a high-speed build and get a simpler, cheaper one for this build

- Lower gauge wiring

- Deans connectors

 

 

 

KWA M16 RIS 2GX - $385

 

Range:

- R-Hop

- KWA barrel/bucking/chamber combination best here? Or would I be better with Prometheus parts? Save the 2GX bucking of course

 

Compression:

- I think everything in the 2GX gearbox should hold up fine here

 

Mechanical/Durability:

- JG High Torque Motor Blue ($40); again, would a JG red motor be better?

- M140/SP150 spring ($15)

 

Electric:

- again, Extreme-Fire Panther MOSFET ($95); I already have one, that's the only reason I plan on using it; might save it for a high-speed build and get a simpler, cheaper one for this build

- Low gauge wiring

- Deans connectors

 

 

From what I've added for the parts listed, the JG M16 will be around $405 total, and the KWA M16 will be around $440 total. I'm kind of leaning towards the JG route at the moment mainly because the KWA gearbox has proprietary parts. I'm not 100% sure yet though, that's why I need your help.

 

As far as externals go, I'm thinking that I'm probably going to go with an SPR-type build. Just in case anyone was wondering.

 

 

 

Thanks to everyone that helps. I appreciate your time.

 

-Brenden

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Forgot to mention - I will be doing an extensive list of DIY mods to ensure the best range, compression, and durability that I can get. Don't think I forgot about those.

Edited by Brenden

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I am with the JG M16. Better internals.

No need for SHS gears. I have my JG stock gears in one of my AEGs running with SP160 and no problem whatsoever.

JG Blue is fine with SP150. Just paired it with 11.1v lipo so as not to stress the motor. But if you want to add more rof then the Red one is what you want.

6.03mm is my choice since there is no significant difference between the two. And it does performs well. IME.

You need hard bucking for high fps. Hope the one you choose is more of like that.

For compression parts, Guarder is one of your option. Most of my high fps builds use Guarder compression parts.

Just do the air seal mods to have good compression.

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If you're going to gut the thing the answer is obvious get the JG or Echo1. Because it's cheaper and your scrapping the internals anywho.

 

If you get a KWA 2GX model there is absolutely NO NEED to upgrade and would probably cost less than getting a JG and upgrading it.

 

 

Just buy a KWA 2GX SR-12 and turn that into your DMR. The most you'd have to do is convert to deans and get a tightbore barrel.

 

 

If you are going to gut something my suggestion would be a cheap chinese clone like a AGM. I <3 A&K & AGMs.

 

-Hans

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Thanks for the quick responses!

 

JG...Jg..yeah jg blue will get you the specs you want.

Okay, great.

 

 

I am with the JG M16. Better internals.

No need for SHS gears. I have my JG stock gears in one of my AEGs running with SP160 and no problem whatsoever.

JG Blue is fine with SP150. Just paired it with 11.1v lipo so as not to stress the motor. But if you want to add more rof then the Red one is what you want.

6.03mm is my choice since there is no significant difference between the two. And it does performs well. IME.

You need hard bucking for high fps. Hope the one you choose is more of like that.

For compression parts, Guarder is one of your option. Most of my high fps builds use Guarder compression parts.

Just do the air seal mods to have good compression.

 

I completely forgot that JG gears were some of the strongest gears you can get. My bad.

 

I'm still deciding about whether I want a 6.01mm or 6.03mm barrel. I'm hoping to hear more about other people's experiences.

 

I'm not sure how hard the 2GX bucking is compared to other buckings. I'm sure I'll get some input on that too.

 

Guarder compression parts are the ones that I was leaning towards as well. I've read some great reviews about them tonight. Thanks

 

 

If you're going to gut the thing the answer is obvious get the JG or Echo1. Because it's cheaper and your scrapping the internals anywho.

 

If you get a KWA 2GX model there is absolutely NO NEED to upgrade and would probably cost less than getting a JG and upgrading it.

 

 

Just buy a KWA 2GX SR-12 and turn that into your DMR. The most you'd have to do is convert to deans and get a tightbore barrel.

 

 

If you are going to gut something my suggestion would be a cheap chinese clone like a AGM. I <3 A&K & AGMs.

 

-Hans

 

Thanks for the input.

 

You don't think a JG motor would be better than the KWA?

 

And from what I've added up, the JG route will be cheaper. However, the KWA will have much nicer externals. I was thinking about some A&K guns as well. We'll see.

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Just buy a KWA 2GX SR-12 and turn that into your DMR. The most you'd have to do is convert to deans and get a tightbore barrel.

This is not a DMR. I out shoot these guns every day with tuned stock assault rifles, if you know what you're doing, KWA is nothing speical.

 

JG is the way to go. If you get the M16 enhanced version you may not need to replace the motor, and the bushings should be metal. What I would do is get the gun first, and then examine what's inside.

 

The spring you want will be an SP140, or M150 spring, those will put you right at 500fps.

 

Get a prometheus 6.03 barrel. It's not so much the barrel bore that's important, it's the quality and material of the barrel. When PDI and Prometheus are of the same standard/quality, and they are both stainless steel, the Prometheus wins out because it's half the price of the PDI.

 

Get either the flat hop or R-Hop, both are good, but the R-hop will last longer. Both will easily give you the range you desire.

 

Your bucking is of hard type bucking material, but because it's so thin, it doesn't seal quite like a hard type bucking. It should seal fine with 500fps though, but so should a Madbull Red for that matter.

 

All you need is a new air nozzle for compression. Both Prometheus and SHS make good air nozzles, however the SHS is metal, and imo, isn't as good for the job as a Prometheus air nozzle is, though the prometheus is plastic and more expensive. Both have o-rings and that's the important part. If you need to, get some new o-rings for the air nozzle, SHS again makes some fairly cheap replacements that you can pick up with the nozzle.

 

If the piston is the cream colored piston, then you don't need a new one, it's PLENTY strong enough to last under your load. Just correct the AoE and you will be golden.

 

And your electrical components are a good choice. But, I'll warn you, with that mosfet, wires, and deans, if you use an 11.1v lipo, you'll probably get more than 12rps.... not that that's REALLY a problem, better trigger response and all. If you really want the lesser rps, use a 7.4v lipo.

 

If you do all your tweaks and mods correctly, you will have an amazing rifle.

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Thanks Star folder. That helped me a lot.

 

Last question that hasn't really been answered: any need for a new hop-up chamber? Thanks

 

 

Assuming you stick with the JG full metal your stock hop chamber will be just fine. The KWA suffers from a two piece hop chamber as do the plastic JGs which means the barrel isn't stabilized at the rear. Thats an important reason why its so easy to out shoot KWAs.

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Might I suggest a Dboys m16a4? It has a lot of the good externals that you would want from a DMR (in my opinion). The rail system is nice, the externals are solid and since you gotta scrap most of the internals anyway it might be a good fit.

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Why not just get a polar star drop in box, infinitely more consistent, not all that much more expensive and adjustable fps

 

Cause P* isn't field legal in every fields and it adds lots of weight.

Not to mention that you can get +/-1 fps with AEGs with some mods and tuning.

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