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JonathanEngr

Trying to get a handle on upgrades for a G&G FN F2000

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Well, I guess the best way I can put this is jumping from the frying pan into the fire...!!!!

 

I'm a newbie to airsoft, as-in only participating as a stand-in at scenarios borrowing guns and what-not to play. I LOVE it. As a result, I delved into a "Google and YouTube" the heck out of the web to determine a good gun to buy for myself. I decided on the G&G FN F2000... it seems to have the specs I need for the way I play (short overall length with a long barrel for accuracy, but can lay down some respectable FPS). I know everyone has their likes and dislikes, but overall, any opinions on the gun? I mean, come on. Every single reviewer of the gun talks about how well-made and strong the gearbox is, but these guys are *selling* the gun. Like they're going to say "this gun is a piece of crap--don't buy it!!!" (If you have negative things to say about the gun... be gentle! The gun is supposed to arrive next Tuesday is UPS is to be believed).

 

With that said, enough just wasn't enough. I thought 16 rps was REALLY good until I hit these forums, and 16 rps/1000 rpm is kinda meh... I quickly noticed the association between voltage, current and rps, and thus decided to buy a MOSFET unit so I could run my high © capacity 11.1v LiPo RC batteries in the gun (been doing aircraft RC for years). It seemed to be a relatively simple upgrade, and being new to airsoft it really appealed to me.

 

Well, after watching several videos on breaking down the gearbox on the F2000, I was just stunned. RC aircraft mods can be a complete pain--I mean pull your hair out and kick the dog kind of pain-- and I was amazed at how straight-forward the components of these guns are. Kudos to the guys who invented these things. Thus, I'm starting to get a bit more confidence looking into further upgrades.

 

I'm assuming that a rps of around 500 and fps of around 1000 isn't easily attainable short of a real mini-gun, so I tried to think of what's important to me. The stock fps, which is adjustable, seems to chrono around 350 (low setting) to 400 fps (high setting). I really want to keep this range of fps. Our group battles on an old farm, with target distances ranging from 400 feet (okay--so no one is shooting then), down to peeking around a corner 5 feet from the target. Having been hit in the face at previously said 5 feet, I really want the ability to knock the guys out at a distance before they close in :-)

 

Obviously, the thought of a motor upgrade comes to mind. Holy cow. Google "best airsoft motor upgrade" and there is a plethora of information to sort through. Bad thing is, some of it dates back 5 years, and the motors mentioned are extinct. Some of the motors mentioned aren't capable of high rps with a fps of 400. It would be BAD to replace my stock motor and end up with less rps.

 

I have no idea what spring comes in the F2000 (tried to find it, but haven't had any results), but I would assume what--a 120 or so? Is there a motor out there that will give me a higher rps at this fps? Will the "high strength" gearbox that comes with the gun be able to handle it? If not, any recommendations on a place to buy some adamantium gears...????

 

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, is there some other critical upgrade I'm overlooking for more rps? It seems by the spring and tight-bore barrel that comes with the gun, I'm fairly set up on the fps side.

 

Okay--lastly for real this time. One of the guys on the field is a Umarex dealer, so everyone on the field runs Umarex products. Of this I did not know, so now I'm getting the big "if it's not Umarex, it's a piece-of-crap" diatribe, so there's definitely a part of me wanting to lay a smackdown on those suckers. Several of them are running the G36C Elite rifles (the ones touting 1000 rpm and a 1-year warranty), and I'm flustered. No idea the quality of Umarex guns (or really G&G for that matter), but IMHO what good is the one-year warranty? Are you really going to pay $20 shipping for a $5 part and be without your gun for a month or more?). Anyway, I'm normally a "ha, ha, ha, whatever" kind of guy, but I'm getting psyched up about shutting these guys down :-)

 

So, aside from people saying "you really screwed up buying that piece-o-crap", what can I do to make the FN F2000 become the FN F2000 super-elite version 103.25 "banned in 50 states, 194 countries and 7 continents"? Preferably nothing fatal, but lots and lots of pain would be just fine :-)

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We apologize for me for my bad English.

It is a good thing you are investigating.

 

I do not technician ..

However, I can tell you this:

Unless you want to just do not spill the blood of 400FPS ... stay under you.

 

Because I know, G & G brand is good. In addition, FN2000 of them are great AEG.

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Well, quite an extensive explanation. Quite simply, a RPS upgrade is the easiest to do. If you don't know what I'm talking about, google it

 

1. Reshim and regrease

2.Fix AOE of piston

3.SHS Full steel teeth piston

4.11.1v lipo, c and MAH of your preference.

5.Downgrade your fps to 350 at all times. It'll help your motor do its job

6. Switch to .30 gram BBs.

7. Purchase a MOSFET, I suggest an Extreme Fire one.

 

All the stock G&G internals should be able to handle this. This isn't fool proof though, don't blame me when something fails. Having RC knowledge will help you a lot in this journey.

Have fun

 

p.s. Airsoft lipos are a little different then RC lipos. You don't want 5000mah 40c. Standard Airsoft Lipos are about 2000mah and 25c.

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-Skip the piston, no reason, and steel tooth pistons are not good for guns at relatively high speeds. If something is going to break, I would prefer it be the piston over the gears. The pickup teeth on the piston should be polycarb or nylon/fiber. I really like my Madbull piston, which has 7 steel teeth on the release end of the piston.

 

-MOSFETs are good, and you really need one if you use an 11.1v lipo. Extreme Fire 'fets are overpriced though. You can build your own with active braking for less than $15. I built one for my SCAR and it works beautifully. And if your going to install a MOSFET, just rewire the whole gun with better wire and Deans Ultra Plugs. Its cheap and you'll never have to worry about your wiring again assuming its done well and you don't short your battery.

 

-If you have primarily longer engagement distances, there is no reason to set the velocity at 350 unless your going to a strictly CQB game, run it at 400. I know velocity does not equal range, but with proper hop up and BB's, 400 will outperform 350. A gun at 400 w/.20g will put out .30g at around 340, and like I said, a good hop up and BB's will take advantage of the higher kinetic energy.

 

-There is no such thing as an "airsoft lipo", but jayheuk is correct in saying that, for your setup, you probably don't need a monster lipo.

 

 

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For the G&G G2010 the best upgrade is a mosfet, the stock trigger mech has high resistance and this is what makes the gun fire slowly. Add a MOSFET and you will be shooting in the 20s with an 11.1 lipo. It is a bit trickier to install a FET in a f2000 but not if you are good at soldering.

 

A TON of info can be found here:

G2010 info thread

 

Also if you are looking for an AMAZING sling solution that brings the f2000 up nice and high on the chest look at URBAN-ERT slings, they have a special F2000 sling that makes the f2000 work so nicely, I can even shoot effectively while carrying a flag or "suitcase bomb" in my off hand. It is hands down the BEST sling I have owned, it also has attachments for M4 or other weapons available. URBAN-ERT will replace anything that breaks for life.F2000 sling link

yhst-89887447921587_2197_331885.jpg

 

I love my G2010. It is quick to aim, is quiet, accurate, shoots right at 400fps. I have a newer primary but it is my solid backup and I still play with it often. It has a solid reputation with my club.

 

The gearset should work fine for you but if it ever needs replacing look up siegetek gears. They are 110+ dollars but will NOT break. They are hardened chromoly and built to last. Most good techs swear by them if they have ever tried them.

 

I find that G&G hicaps, ICS hicaps and Lonex flash mags work great with my F2000. Midcaps from G&G work perfectly, for other manufacturers you must shave away some of the top spring holder on the mag, and easy and effective fix that does not prevent their use in other guns.

 

The stock barrel and hop are excellent. When you are ready for even more range and accuracy at the same FPS look up R-hop. The first install is a bit long, but once you get the hang of it, it is not difficult. With a good heavyweight bb(.32-.40) you will be hitting out past 250 feet.

 

Lastly, don't buy into the Umarex hype. Umarex doesnt make any guns, they get other manufacturers to make them. Umarex is just a company that liscences trademarks and forces other companies to pay for the liscence to use the correct trades. The Umarex Elite G36c is actually an ARES product. It has many faults including a mechanical blowback system (useless just get a gas gun if you want blowback). It also utilizes a microswitch for the trigger mech. Microswitches are a poor choice in the airsoft community for anything but a stock gun. In an upgraded gun they can have issues, especially with MOSFETS. They can burn out and it is hard to find a replacement. Most reputable techs would never choose an ARES as an upgrade platform. Star Folder, a mod on this forum has a nicely modified f2000.

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-Skip the piston, no reason, and steel tooth pistons are not good for guns at relatively high speeds. If something is going to break, I would prefer it be the piston over the gears. The pickup teeth on the piston should be polycarb or nylon/fiber. I really like my Madbull piston, which has 7 steel teeth on the release end of the piston.

 

-MOSFETs are good, and you really need one if you use an 11.1v lipo. Extreme Fire 'fets are overpriced though. You can build your own with active braking for less than $15. I built one for my SCAR and it works beautifully. And if your going to install a MOSFET, just rewire the whole gun with better wire and Deans Ultra Plugs. Its cheap and you'll never have to worry about your wiring again assuming its done well and you don't short your battery.

 

-If you have primarily longer engagement distances, there is no reason to set the velocity at 350 unless your going to a strictly CQB game, run it at 400. I know velocity does not equal range, but with proper hop up and BB's, 400 will outperform 350. A gun at 400 w/.20g will put out .30g at around 340, and like I said, a good hop up and BB's will take advantage of the higher kinetic energy.

 

-There is no such thing as an "airsoft lipo", but jayheuk is correct in saying that, for your setup, you probably don't need a monster lipo.

I didn't really mean "airsoft" specific lipos. Its just usually RC cars and airplanes need much more amperage to run, therefore his understanding of lipos would be a little different.

 

Normally I wouldn't recommend making your own MOSFET for a beginner, but it seems that he knows how to tinker. You can give it a shot.

 

 

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Guest greg93

The G&G F2000 is a great gun, don't let anyone fool you that its not. I would agree with previous posts and say that using .28- .30g bbs is you're best option for improved range, and for a better rate of fire I would just get a high torque motor and a good 9.6v battery. For high torque motor get a JG red motor or an shs motor.

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Thanks, everyone! I have to apologize for not posting back earlier... I've had a busy week, and somehow I hads switched this forum to "outline" mode. Thus, I would quickly sign in, scroll down, and it looked like I had no replies. Maybe I'm *not* the guy you want carrying around a hopped-up gun... LOL!

 

All good inputs. I was surprised that a motor upgrade wasn't #1 on everyone's list! Thus, I'm glad I came here and asked before making that leap. I've heard that the stock motor is pretty good, so I'll stickwith it for a bit.

 

I did notice that the MOSFETs on the extreme fire website seemed t be high fo the components used (they actually have a downloadable pdf that shows the scematic diagram). It is a *very* simple setup, and you could undoubtedly build one for $15. However, they build and test them to assure they work properly, and that means a lot to me. If something stopped working on the gun the first thing I'd think was the problem is my homemade MOSFET. It was worth it to me to pay the additional cost (I bought the SW-AB-LONG). If I can get 20 rps out of this gun with the 11.1 lipo and a mosfet, I'll be thrilled!

 

I did note the mention about upgrading the wiring. I watched a lengthy video where they broke the gun apart, and if I recall correctly they had 14-gauge wire throughout the gun. He seemed to make the impression that this was very unusual (in a good way), but if you all feel it would still be good to do I have a spool of 12-gauge wire here that I used for my RC airplanne stuff.

 

Everyone keeps talking about Deans connectors. Wow. They must be that good. Is this something I can pick up at Radio Shack? I may call today to see, and if not I'll hit eBay. I haven't heard of Deans Ultra plugs--I'll check into those, too.

 

Regarding accessories, I'll def check out the slings on Urban-Ert... I know it's hard to find slings for this gun.

 

All-in-all, I appreciate all of the input. The gun is due in next week, as well as the MOSFET, and I'll be sure to post back with any results I gather after I have it up-and-running!

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Deans connectors are the "official" name for T- Connectors.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/u...idProduct=11961

^ I have used these on most of my builds. they work fine. as long as your not an idiot with a soldering iron you wont have any trouble.

ive bought the "Ultra deans" connectors and the T-connectors and there is very little difference.

 

also extreme fire's prices are fine for what they have. people always :censored2: about ohh you can make that cheaper blah blah blah. it is more along the lines of quality control and he support that he has. if you can make your own mosfet, good for you. most people don't have that knowledge or skill or the time. also if it breaks you just send it back to gandolf and he fixes it for you or replaces it. so its worth it imo. as for wiring I use 16g wiring, but for your Fn2000 you may be able to get away with 14g idk you would have to see. the G&G stock motor will serve you well as long as you stay under 400fps. it can maybe go a little higher but you will notice a decrease in RPS. also for a motor upgrade. as said before just get a SHS or lonex motor. and if you can find it the JG ones are very good

 

you would have to measure the size but you can find good lipos here

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/_..._nano_tech.html

or here

http://www.hobbypartz.com/gensacelipo.html

 

if you need a charger I recommend this one

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/_...s_GENUINE_.html

I have and use it. it works perfect for what I need

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OK some of these recommendations are archaic, no offense to you guys but motormouth, anachro and campingtomz are the only ones in this thread who gave completely accurate advice.

 

Not trying to flame anyone, just want to set some things straight.

 

1) G&G stock motors blow - the only one I would use is their High Torque, and would prefer almost any ACM neo torque motor to that. G&G stock = crap < G&G Torque = decent < SHS, Matrix magnum etc.. = very nice.

With that said, the stock motor on a decent 11.1v LiPO will easily hit 20rps (albiet with questionable trigger response, especially when dialed up to 400fps). So if you don't mind a little trigger lag, you are correct, you don't need a new motor.

 

For reference, I run an Element High Torque motor w/ (11.1v 3000mAh 25C LiPO) on G&G stock gears &lt;AT&gt; 465fps. RoF = 25rps and trigger response is extremely fast.

High speed motors are pretty powerful these days as well, (same setup with an Element High Speed motor &lt;AT&gt; 350fps = 38rps) but still suffer longer trigger response since they have lower torque and can have trouble accelerating when pulling M120+. For your setup a Torque motor would be ideal, since you could always drop in either a bigger spring for higher FPS, or high speed gears for higher RoF. Torque motors = great trigger response and lots of options/flexibility for changing your setup.

 

2) MOSFET was a good choice, especially from EF. Yes you can make your own for cheaper, but A) you should NEVER make a homemade AB 'FET - that design is dangerous, so just stick with the simple non-AB design. And B) EF is top quality, guaranteed work, and he's the one who put all the years and expense of R&D, engineering and programming into his 'FETs, so his prices are perfectly reasonable.

 

Deans/T-plugs are nice, since tamiyas are not meant to carry the kind of power that today's LiPO's output, and they wear out and become less efficient over time, but the resistance that comes from the stock wiring/trigger contacts is way overstated here - it doesn't make that much of a difference in terms of RoF to upgrade. It is, however, a solid upgrade choice for efficiency and longetivity, and since it's so easy on the F2000 you might as well.

 

3) LiPO batteries - for a given voltage, the bigger the better - always. Higher capacity and discharge rate means less stress on the battery, because it's the motor that drives power consumption, not the battery (I.e., the motor is not being force-fed by the battery - the motor only pulls what it wants, so better to have overhead discharge capability). Always get the largest capacity, highest discharge LiPO that can fit in your gun.

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First of all, can anyone verify this assumption for me. The motor of the gun really has nothing to do with the fps of the bullets, correct? Either the motor can or cannot pull the cylinder back with a certain spring, and a stonger motor might pull it back more times per second, but the velovity of the bullet depends on the spring, air tightness of the chamber, etc.

 

With that said, I *definitely* want to keep a minimum 400 fps with 0.2g bullets. Does anyone know what type of spring comes in the F2000? A 110? 120? I would like to have the ability to put in a stronger spring for higher fps, but care more about keeping my 400 fps and increasing the rof. We don't do a lot of right-on-you CQB (although it happens), so a 400 fps at 30 rps would be *ideal*.

 

My biggest fear with a motor swap is doing it wrong. Does it require cracking open the gearbox? With all of the discussion of needed to shim perfectly, etc., I'm afraid of introducing a catastrophic failure. My second biggest fear--not too far behind my first--is going through a motor swap and it not being any better and perhaps worse. I watched a video of a guy do a motor swap, and went from 15.05 rps to 15.30 rps. Now THAT would stink.

 

From the motors mentioned above, which would give me the highest rof and be most dependable at a velocity of 400 fps?

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the motor wont effect the FPS at all normally the only chance it will effect the FPS is if it cant pull the spring back=P

as for opening your gearbox up. its not all that hard. it takes time patience and a little know how. there are dozens of theads and guides on the forum and youtube. for you to learn from. if you still don't feel up to the challenge you can A) find a local tech or shop to do the work for you, B) find someone on the forum to do it.

both options have their ups and downs . the store will usually charge you more for their services. and finding someone to ship it to can be a hassle just look at the general buy/sell section and look under "problems with age" youll see all the things that can go wrong.

either way do you research on the person or the store before you have someone work on it.

things like shimming and AOE are very helpful in prolonging your guns life and helping with the ROf.

 

there are many members that would do "tech work" but you need to be careful. for ever 5 people that say they can do tech work 4 of them are idiots that think they are special.

 

a motor swap is essentially very simple, although with the fn2000 is seems the motor cage is built into the gearbox so you will have to take it all apart, kinda sucks there.

 

as for a motor upgrade. it all depends on what you get and your gun. a good High speed motor and say 18:1 gears(standard gears) with a m120 should get you to the high 20s to mid 30s.

most neo motors can pull a m120 no problem. for example I had a shs high speed motor pull a m130 with 13:1 short stroked gears at 35 RPS

 

as for motors in your case I would go with a lonex high speed short motor. my reasoning behind this is the lonex is a very sturdy motor and their high speed variants have a good amount of torque.

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also if your looking shs parts and what not I would go here

http://clandestineairsoft.com/index.php?ma...dex&cPath=1

good prices on all sorts of upgrades from motors to other things.

 

also if you would like to reach out and touch someone with you bbs more effectively I would look into a R-hopup. although you would have to do your research and see how high speed guns effect the patch and what not.

Edited by campingtomz

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The motor that comes in the gun is the "long" type, so would a short type work?

 

I've been going back through web pages on the gun, and can't find where I came away with 14-gauge wiring. I'll check when I get the gun, but what is the *smallest* wire you want to use for a LiPo setup? You mentioned you use 16-gauge wire, so I assume the 12-gauge wire I have would be even better since you can zip 100 amps at 12v through a 3-foot long wire versus only 50 amps through a 3-foot long 16 gauge wire at 12v. I assume braided wire is best for flexibility?

 

As for motors, what do people use to pull the monstrous 150 springs? Is there a good, high-torque motor that could pull a 150 that can be dropped down to a 120 resulting in excellent rof?

 

Lastly, I've been noticing that the high rof gearsets have less teeth. As such, does this mean they are also more durable since the base of the teeth are wider?

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Guest greg93
The motor that comes in the gun is the "long" type, so would a short type work?

 

I've been going back through web pages on the gun, and can't find where I came away with 14-gauge wiring. I'll check when I get the gun, but what is the *smallest* wire you want to use for a LiPo setup? You mentioned you use 16-gauge wire, so I assume the 12-gauge wire I have would be even better since you can zip 100 amps at 12v through a 3-foot long wire versus only 50 amps through a 3-foot long 16 gauge wire at 12v. I assume braided wire is best for flexibility?

 

As for motors, what do people use to pull the monstrous 150 springs? Is there a good, high-torque motor that could pull a 150 that can be dropped down to a 120 resulting in excellent rof?

 

Lastly, I've been noticing that the high rof gearsets have less teeth. As such, does this mean they are also more durable since the base of the teeth are wider?

No you cannot replace a long type motor with a short one, you'll have to buy the long type. Don't bother with 14 guage wiring, its hard to find, won't fit in your gearbox, and it wont yield a noticeable improvement over 16 guage. I would suggest buying a few feet of copper wiring from your local hardware store and soldering it in yourself if you have the know-how. Also get some t-shape (deans) connectors if you are going to use a lipo, you can find them cheap on clandestineairsoft.com.

Forget the m150 spring, its unnecessary and you wont have a very good rate of fire. Besides, anything over an m120 will limit you to semi-auto only at most fields. Since your gun has an adjustable spring, I would suggest getting an m130 and unscrewing the spring guide and you'll probably be pretty close to 400 fps with a respectable rof.

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Sounds like he doesn't really want an M150, just a motor that has the power to pull one effectively.

 

You definitely want a torque motor, I would recommend JG red, SHS, or Matrix Magnum.

 

The G2000 comes with an M110ish spring. Springs are rated by the fps they produce in a standard gearbox setup with .2g BB's. M stands for Meter, so convert to feet and you've got your fps estimation (e.g. 100m = ~330ft, 120m = ~390ft, etc...). The exceptions are Guarder ("sp" nomenclature instead of "M"), who rate their springs with .25g BB's, and PDI, who work off % of 1J.

 

If you want ~400fps as your base, I would go with a Guarder sp120.

 

You won't quite reach 30rps with that setup, but you'll be close. You could always grab a set of SHS 16:1 gears to give you that little extra speed if you really want it. And to answer your last question, high speed gears are generally more likely to break than high torque gears, because they are subjected to a lot more stress and torque from the motor. That's why it's recommended that you don't exceed an M120 on most 13:1 gear sets. The base of the teeth that bear the greatest load are actually smaller in a high speed gearset.

 

 

As for wiring, you want high strand copper. I prefer teflon coated, but some like the noodly silicone, and PVC also works fine. Gauge depends on how much room you have in the gun, and what's convenient/available to you. Most people go with 16AWG, and going thicker from there is all really diminishing returns, but if you've got some nice 12AWG and it fits, then by all means go for it. Note that you might have trouble fitting 12AWG into your SW-AB-LONG.

Edited by buppus

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Buppus--you hit the nail on the head. I really don't care a bit about running a 150 spring. That's just way too much heat for where we play. Although I like taking people out long-range, there is always the element of very close cqb, and that could really hurt someone. Springs are relatively inexpensive, so I'll likely buy an aftermarket 110 through 130 and do a swap to see what kind of rof and fps I get with each one. I just want a motor that is going to be able to turn easily with any of the springs I put in.

 

Question--does anyone know about changing springs on the F2000? Are aftermarket springs better than stock? I think I read somewhere that you simple remove the fps adjustment screw and voila! The spring comes right out. Also, I've noticed lots of people saying "use a metal spring guide". Does the F2000 come with a metal spring guide?

 

I believe the SW-AB-LONG now comes with wire pre-soldered (or maybe it always did). I don't believe it comes with the screw posts like his computer-sontrolled units, but it's something to consider if I ever think I might go with a computer-controlled mosfet.

 

With the changes mentioned here, the mosfet, stepped-up motor and keeping my stock gears, if I'm hitting 400 fps and mid to upper 20's in rps, will it be a reliable rig?

 

BTW--I ordered a 10-pack of Deans Ultra Connectors... they should be here on Wednesday along with the gun.

Edited by JonathanEngr

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Buppus--you hit the nail on the head. I really don't care a bit about running a 150 spring. That's just way too much heat for where we play. Although I like taking people out long-range, there is always the element of very close cqb, and that could really hurt someone. Springs are relatively inexpensive, so I'll likely buy an aftermarket 110 through 130 and do a swap to see what kind of rof and fps I get with each one. I just want a motor that is going to be able to turn easily with any of the springs I put in.

 

Question--does anyone know about changing springs on the F2000? Are aftermarket springs better than stock? I think I read somewhere that you simple remove the fps adjustment screw and voila! The spring comes right out. Also, I've noticed lots of people saying "use a metal spring guide". Does the F2000 come with a metal spring guide?

 

I believe the SW-AB-LONG now comes with wire pre-soldered (or maybe it always did). I don't believe it comes with the screw posts like his computer-sontrolled units, but it's something to consider if I ever think I might go with a computer-controlled mosfet.

 

With the changes mentioned here, the mosfet, stepped-up motor and keeping my stock gears, if I'm hitting 400 fps and mid to upper 20's in rps, will it be a reliable rig?

 

BTW--I ordered a 10-pack of Deans Ultra Connectors... they should be here on Wednesday along with the gun.

 

In the back, there are two pieces that are threaded into the gearbox, the spring guide and the "adjuster nut". Once you remove both of these, your spring will come out, and makes life a bit easier when disassembling the rest of the gearbox. In addition, you can adjust the pair about 1.5", so you'll be able to adjust your fps around 75 or so, so you probably don't need all three springs.

 

I have a cheetah-2n in mine, and it fits nicely in a little slot under the battery compartment. I shaved off some grooves in the battery compartment, and can barely fit an 11.1v 2200 lipo, although I should have gotten a one that was deeper but shorter.

 

I'm running around 400fps and 28rps on a jg blue, 11.1v lipo and shs 13:1 gears if memory serves, just to give you an idea, and I think I'm using the stock spring. You should be able to get out to 200ft pretty easily (mine is 10/10 there, although I haven't gotten a chance to go further). Accuracy upgrades on mine are a 6.03 prommy barrel, one of my nubs, #14 o-ring, and a pdi w-hold bucking. I don't know why, but during my testing around Christmas, I got tighter groups from the unmodified pdi, but I'll check again next week.

 

 

 

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Thanks for everyone's patience, but I do have a question about the gear ratios.

 

First of all, can anyone tell me what the F2000 stock gear ratio is? 18:1? 16:1? It seems somewhere that I saw a post saying 16:1. Is the rof linear in proportion to the gear ratio? The reason I'm asking is the following"

 

Say my stock gears are 16:1, and to increase my rof I go to 13:1 gears. Does it follow that my increase in speed (assuming the motor can pull it) would be (16/13), or roughly 123% of the original gears? So if I could get 20 rps with my original gears, I would get (1.23*20), or 24-25 rps? If this is the case, it seems the JG Blue doesn't do a whole lot as far as rps versus the stock motor. I could be totally incorrect, but that's why I'm asking :-)

 

I guess the best way to ask the question would be, "What motor swap, keeping the stock gears, would give me the highest rof while keeping a velocity of 400 fps?". I know there are very high-speed motors, but it seems that many recommend a spring no greater than 100.

 

I have noticed several people (in other posts) talking about checking for cylinder leaks by covering the nozzle and turning the gears. If there is a leak, do you change the piston head? Is there a way to spin the gears without breaking into the gearbox?

 

Lastly, I don't think anyone addressed this from my last post, but I've seen several recommendations that the spring guide be changed to metal in any gun that comes with a plastic one. Is the spring guide in the F2000 metal?

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Thanks for everyone's patience, but I do have a question about the gear ratios.

 

First of all, can anyone tell me what the F2000 stock gear ratio is? 18:1? 16:1? It seems somewhere that I saw a post saying 16:1. Is the rof linear in proportion to the gear ratio? The reason I'm asking is the following"

 

Say my stock gears are 16:1, and to increase my rof I go to 13:1 gears. Does it follow that my increase in speed (assuming the motor can pull it) would be (16/13), or roughly 123% of the original gears? So if I could get 20 rps with my original gears, I would get (1.23*20), or 24-25 rps? If this is the case, it seems the JG Blue doesn't do a whole lot as far as rps versus the stock motor. I could be totally incorrect, but that's why I'm asking :-)

 

I guess the best way to ask the question would be, "What motor swap, keeping the stock gears, would give me the highest rof while keeping a velocity of 400 fps?". I know there are very high-speed motors, but it seems that many recommend a spring no greater than 100.

 

I have noticed several people (in other posts) talking about checking for cylinder leaks by covering the nozzle and turning the gears. If there is a leak, do you change the piston head? Is there a way to spin the gears without breaking into the gearbox?

 

Lastly, I don't think anyone addressed this from my last post, but I've seen several recommendations that the spring guide be changed to metal in any gun that comes with a plastic one. Is the spring guide in the F2000 metal?

 

The reason I have the jg blue is for trigger response not for rof. I would honestly like a rof closer to 20 but it's close enough and I'll use semi most of theed time anyways.

 

The spring guide is all metal and proprietary so you can't upgrade it anyways.

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to answer your motor question. any ACM high speed motor can pull a m120 with out much trouble with G&G gear. that means a SHS lonex etc motor would be perfect for you.

shs high speed http://clandestineairsoft.com/index.php?ma...;products_id=35

for your air seal question. what I do is take out all the cylinder, piston nozzle and cylinder head to test the compression. put ur find over the cylinder head nozzle and push the piston down. the seal will be good if you cant push the piston down or there is a lot of resistance from the compression

if there is a leak it would most likely be the oring on the piston. You can hit your local auto store and get a size #14 oring should be perfect. If the cylinder head is leaking just wrap som Teflon “plumber” tape around it to give a tighter seal.

 

Next I test the nozzle the same way as before. You can use the tampet (or what ever its called) plate to move the nozzle at different settings. The nozzle may have a good seal when its all the way back but at different spots it may leak. If you have a leaky nozzle, look for one with orings in them. Also if you get a new nozzle try to find a new cylinder head as well. Parts work better together if they are from the same manufacture.

To test the air seal the best way is to take the gearbox apart. But I suppose you could wrap you lips around the nozzle and blow it… giggidy….if you get good pressure then the seal is fine. But I don’t think that would be as effective. Although it would be funny to watch.

 

EDIT* looking at pictures of the gearbox (since I don't have my fn2000 yet) I would say they use a M4 nozzle and cylinder head. if im wrong someone please correct me on that.

I would just get these parts for a better airseal

http://clandestineairsoft.com/index.php?ma...;products_id=45

http://clandestineairsoft.com/index.php?ma...;products_id=25

ive used them in a build and the seal they provide was perfect with no leaks. I would get some silcone oil and lube the nozzle up a bit to make it slide faster...don't use any petrolium based products as they have a tendencey to eat away at the rubber oring.

 

As for your question about gear ratio and speed. That’s really hard to figure there are to many factors to give you a solid answer: gear ratio, spring strength, shimming, aoe, motor, battery etc.

You best bet would see what other people have built to compare It to the parts you will have

Edited by campingtomz

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You can get a rough RoF approximation when keeping the same motor and switching gear ratio. The calculation involves simple arithmetic, playing with the fact that gear ratio refers to the number of motor revolutions (the first number) it takes to get one sector gear revolution (the second number).

 

Current Gear Ratio * Current RoF = Motor Revolutions/sec.

 

Motor Revolutions/sec / New Gear Ratio = New RoF

 

For instance, using my Element torque motor on stock G&G gears (technically, the ratio of standard ratio gears is 18.72:1), I get 25rps on a big old 11.1v LiPO. That means my motor is doing 18.72 * 25 = 468 revolutions/second pulling an M130. If I switch to 16:1 gears, I will end up with 468 / 16 = 29.25rps. If I switch to 13:1 gears, it will be more like 468 / 13 = 36 rps.

 

Now, you have to take into account that by reducing the number of motor revolutions it takes to do the same amount of work, it increases the torque load on the motor. So depending on your motor's torque curve and power usage characteristics, you might get a little under the calculated RoF, since it's being calculated on a different point in the motor's torque curve. With any of those recommended torque motors, however, they won't be slowed down much if at all... maybe they would lose 1-3rps if you went with 13:1 gears.

 

 

 

As for compression - you have to get into the gearbox to test it. Check out the pinned thread on internal mods and tweaks and it will tell you everything you need to know. Generally a bit of teflone tape, a lighter and some ingenuity are all you need to seal a GB up pretty good.

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Wow! Thanks for the information. The linearity of the gearbox ratio vs rof (minus losses to motor torque) makes perfect sense. It seems there is a true "ceiling" as to rof and fps with current gears and/or motors... has anyone (that you know of) ever stepped out of the boundaries of airsoft motors and used a mini (hobby) motor for their rig? Although I haven't delved into the aftermarket manuals and specifications, you don't seem to see the motor specs listed from companies that sell them (an rpm/torque curve). There are some seriously awesome hobby motors out there that you can buy with extremely high torque and rpm ranges, but I don't know how they compare to the "airsoft" motors. Obviously the motor size might require some modifications to the housing, but it'd be a cool experiment to try out (not to mention many of these motors can be bought for $2 to $3). Same for gears... the gears in the guns are *so small*, but you could quadruple the strength by doubling the size. There is an amazing array of gears out there for linear actuators that could be utilized for such a setup, but serious mods would be needed. I'm simply amazed that no one has introduced titanium gears. Again, as small as the gears are the price shouldn't be astronomical despite the price of titanium. Wow.. it's got me thinking.... I know that there is a "standard" out there as far as gear sizes, etc., but if someone would strike out and start a trend, can you imagine all gears twice as strong (by increasing size 50%) and only adding one inch to the size of the gearbox? What about depth of the gears? Add 0.125" and do the same? Who knows, I might actually give a crazy rig like this a go one day :-)

 

Okay--so the high-torque G&G motor is "pretty good" from what I've read. It's not cutting-edge, nor is it completely a throw-away item. Correct assumption? The one thing I still can't seem to find, however, is the gear ratio for the F2000. I have Googled the *heck* out of it, watched countless videos, gone to the manufacturer's website (which is mostly broken links), and no luck. From my limited knowledge it seemed that gear ratios went from about 18:1 to 13:1, but nooooooo.... Delving deeper I found "ultra torque" gears that go as low/slow as 40:1. Did they pair a "high torque" 25:1 gearset with the F2000? Would going to an aftermarket 18:1 high-torque set give me a 50% increase in rof (minus motor losses?). I guess I'm looking for a yardstick to compare any mods to.

 

Probably not an easy answer, but what is my current motor's rpm at what load versus x,y, and z aftermarket? Same with gear ratios. Does the F2000 comes with 25:1 gears or 18:1 gears?

 

Lastly, and guys--serious--thanks for your patience with me. Tight bore barrels. The F2000 comes with a 6.04 tight-bore barrel. Is this common for guns to come with a "tight-bore" barrel? If not, what is the "standard bore"? 6.1? 6.2? Also, if I go with a 6.04 tight-bore barrel, what makes it better? I see how accuracy can increase with say, a 6.01 tight-bore barrel, but I also see a problem. Isn't a spin imarted on the bb's to assist in trajectory? It seems if you went tighter the greater the chance of a bb hitting the inside of the barrel and eliminating the spin. Or is spin bad? I can see a backspin increasing loft and distance, etc. OR maybe you want zero spin for a straight, flat trajectory. Too bad a barrel can't be rifled (spiral), but with a light-weight bb that might cause inaccuracy. What is ideal? Zero spin? Backspin? Why is brand a's 6.01 tightbore barrel better than type b's 6.01 tight-bore barrel?

 

Dean's connectors arrived today, gun is due to arrive Wednesday and MOSFET was mailed today.

Edited by JonathanEngr

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barrel questions. they do have rifled barrels, the KM twist I think its called. the reason you don't see them in many barrels is because after a certain FPS it becomes unpractical and kinda useless. the best bore size for most guns is 6.03. a 6.01 is usually coincided to be to tight for full auto guns because the BBs will jam if the barrel is not kept clean. also the bore size becomes ineffective after the 6.03 unless you going for a sniper or DMR. getting a quality barrel with a nice smooth bore would have a greater effect in your accuracy. your hopup buckling and air seal are more important. if you want to shoot for accuracy, then the flat hopup or R-hopup would be more effective then a tigherbore barrel.

 

you want spin with the bb it gives the bb more lift and greater distance. as for the G&G high torque motor. idk what one you are talking about. but I still suggest getting a acm neo one.

ultra torque gears have lost their use in most application with airsoft except in extreme high FPS guns. newer motors can pull m120 springs with standard gears 18:1 ratio.

if your looking for speed getting a higher ratio gears wouldnt help, they would slow your RPS.

Edited by campingtomz

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Motors:

 

There has been talk of using brushless R/C motors, the problem is that they are too wide and require ETC units - this makes them impractical in most AEG's since the grip of the gun usually serves as the motor housing, and because local fields would have difficulty controlling field limits on RoF - since one could just clock in at the field limit and then turn it up later. Some guns like the AUG, P90, M249, etc.. that have a large compartment with extra space might be able to accommodate something like that, but it would really be overkill, and probably wouldn't add to the current capabilities of today's AEG's.

 

The reason is that AEG's are not limited by the capabilities of brushed motors, they are limited by air volume. There comes a certain point where the diminishing returns of heavier and heavier springs on a given volume of air become so miniscule that it's no longer worth it to reach for more power without expanding cylinder volume. Not only that, but we have also reached the material limits of springs - no one has been able to produce a spring more powerful than the MS210 which will fit in a standard gearbox.

 

Gears: your gun has standard 18.72:1 gears.

 

For most commonly used/desired airsoft setups, the current gear design is quite adequate. Most gears are sintered metals, which makes them relatively weak, but most people make up for it by choosing an appropriate ratio combined with the motor/battery characteristics that will get their desired results. For those who want more extreme performance, there are RiotSC's CNC'd chromium molybdenum gears, which will surely not break under any forces that are common to an airsoft gearbox. Lastly, if you make the gears bigger, you have to make the gearbox bigger - that doesn't work for a lot of airsoft guns, which depend on the streamlined dimensions of current gearboxes to maintain realism in the final product. If you made them bigger, it would throw a wrench in a lot of the most popular platforms (armalites, AK's, H&K replicas, etc...) so although you have some good ideas and valuable experience coming out of the R/C world, I think ultimately the costs of a redesign project would vastly outweigh the benefits - replacement gearsets are cheap and widely available, and work just fine for our purposes.

 

As for your motor's characteristics, there is unfortunately no documentation for that. The best you could do is to search around to see what results other people have gotten when swapping out different spring levels and plot them on a curve according to muzzle energy (J) and RoF on a given battery. Even then you'll run into problems because different batteries, batches of motors, etc.. Better to pick a goal and let us make a recommendation. The G&G torque is a good motor. You might be better off with the JG red in terms of RoF for the same spring level, but its a solid bet, and with that battery you'll be cookin into the mid 20's with your stock gears.

 

 

Barrels: I would recommend you keep your stock barrel. Standard barrel bore is 6.08mm, and has very little to do with accuracy. The tighter you go, the more FPS you'll squeeze out due to minimizing blow-by, but the more spin interference you'll get from the barrel. Ideal spin is perfectly vertical, and uninhibited by contact with anything but the very top of the barrel. Any contact with the side arcs can negatively influence backspin. Ultimately the barrel's contribution to accuracy comes from its quality of bore - not width, and ultimately this is less important, as tomz said, than your hopup setup overall - going for the most consistent hop spin, the longest hop stroke, and a stable barrel. Look into Flat-hop or R-hop for more info.

 

A lot of people around here like 6.03 TBB's, but I think that's due more to the fact that the more popular and proven barrel brands come in 6.03 (prometheus, mad bull). I have used 6.01's, 6.03's, 6.04's and 6.05's, and got equally good results with all of them, and I've even got comparable results with a crappy stock acm brass 6.08 barrel when I stabilized it and installed an R-hop. All other things being equal, I like to stick around 6.05, but it honestly doesn't make that much of a difference. So again, stick with your stock barrel, and think about how you can make your barrel/hopup more consistent rather than thinking in terms of part swapping. It's all about tuning my friend.

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Gun is in, and HOLY COW!!!!!! I only have lipos, and didn't want to fire the gun until I installed the mosfet. Thanks to Terry at extreme fire--installation was surprisingly intuitive and thus easy.

 

Took it outside this morning without pellets, and you could tell this thing was ready to run. I filled the 450 hi-cap clip in and fired bursts, single shots, etc. getting a feel for the gun and emptied the clip. Refilled it, set my stopwatch to see how long it took to empty the clip and let loose. It took 22 seconds give or take a second to drain it dry. That's a fire rate of ***1227*** rounds per minute, or 20.45 rounds per second. Simply awesome... awesome! That was with an 1800 mah 15c Lipo. The higher mah's I have here won't fit, so I ordered two 2650 mah 30c lipos that will be here Monday.

 

Question--every 5 or 6 seconds during the timing scenario I heard something click, pop or whatever... couldn't tell if it was in the gearbox or not. Do you guys think the gears may not be shimmed correctly?

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umm what do you mean click or pop... kinda hard to figure out what that is. is it like a BB jamming?

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Well, since I'm pretty new to this whole thing I have no idea what a bb jamming sounds like. I've tried to pinpoint the sound, but it's near impossible to do. It really doesn't sound like gears, but maybe it is? The noise would be attenuated by the gearbox housing and body of the gun, so maybe the gears are screaming but by the time it makes it to my ears it's quiet.

 

It ONLY does it when I'm doing long stretches of firing. Short bursts or even 1-2 second bursts it never happens. Just when I'm really laying it down on something (5 seconds or more). Is it maybe that the spring tensioner in the clip is getting to slack to pop the bb's up correctly?

 

Once--only once--a little sliver of bb came out when I removed the clip.

 

Also--when I remove the clip, there always seemed to be 2 or 3 bb's in the gun that fall out. Is that normal?

 

BTW--the gray pin that slides out to allow you to remove the barrel assembly was tight when I got the gun--you really had to push it and grab it on the other side and pull it. Now if I turn the gun on its side it just slides out all the way. Did a part pop loose? Or with firing did it bump the barrel back where it's loose now? Definitely don't want my barrel falling off!

Edited by JonathanEngr

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Well, since I'm pretty new to this whole thing I have no idea what a bb jamming sounds like. I've tried to pinpoint the sound, but it's near impossible to do. It really doesn't sound like gears, but maybe it is? The noise would be attenuated by the gearbox housing and body of the gun, so maybe the gears are screaming but by the time it makes it to my ears it's quiet. You May be getting bad feeding due to poor bb quality. What kind of bbs are you using?

 

It ONLY does it when I'm doing long stretches of firing. Short bursts or even 1-2 second bursts it never happens. Just when I'm really laying it down on something (5 seconds or more). Is it maybe that the spring tensioner in the clip is getting to slack to pop the bb's up correctly? One of the things that is necessary to do with the F2000 is to put orings on the barrel in front of the hop up to force the hop chamber against the gearbox. This may be happening because of poor hop-gearbox connection. The other thing that I feel is a good idea is to place a little foam padding on the plastic plate that holds the gearbox in. Because the gearbox is friction fit, a string of full auto shots may cause it to rock back and forth from the hop and cause misfeeding. Simple fix.

 

Once--only once--a little sliver of bb came out when I removed the clip. Again points to possible bb quality issues or geabox-hop connection

 

Also--when I remove the clip, there always seemed to be 2 or 3 bb's in the gun that fall out. Is that normal? Yes, this happens with most guns as these are the bbs that are out of the mag and lined up in the hop up. Some hop up units have an oring that makes these stay in but I would rather have them fall out, this prevents accidental shots when the mag is out.

BTW--the gray pin that slides out to allow you to remove the barrel assembly was tight when I got the gun--you really had to push it and grab it on the other side and pull it. Now if I turn the gun on its side it just slides out all the way. Did a part pop loose? Or with firing did it bump the barrel back where it's loose now? Definitely don't want my barrel falling off! Not Normal, the grey pin should be tight and not fall out unless it is pushed. If the whole assembly is loose this may be contributing to your feed problems. I would find some way to make it more secure like adding a little jb weld on the gray pin.

Also...if you are using a lipo you MUST get a mosfet, especially with the f2000 as the trigger mech will probably be very expensive to replace. If you don't you will lose semi fairly quickly as this is the first trigger trolley part to make contact. This happened with me and I was lucky to catch it early enough that cleaning the contacts was sufficient to fix the problem.

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Thanks! And yes--I bought a mosfet from extreme fire and installed it before firing the first shot.

 

Now... can you explain/do you have a picture of the o-ring on the barrel in front of the hop-up? Not sure if I follow you there. I've seen lots of people rec'd changing the stock o-ring on the piston with a #14 from a car supplier.

 

Good idea on the foam. If I press forward on the barrel assembly a bit the gray pin gets tight again. Definitely losing some tension.

 

Sorry--missed one of your questions... I'm using "Action Army" 0.2g bb's made in Taiwan. "Perfectly spherical 5.95mm diameter plus/minus one one-hundredth of a mm"... as it says on the packet. They LOOK good... no seams, very spherical (as if I could see 0.01 mm), but have no idea on material quality. They shoot *very* straight, though.

Edited by JonathanEngr

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ok drop the .2s for most guns over 350fps the bbs will be inaccurate since they are so light. I personally use G&G .25g bbs for CQB and bio shot .3 and Bioval .4 bbs in more open areas.

another idea instead of foam just use some tape to make a good buffer between the to parts

 

the oring on the barrel if im thinking of this right is to just have a oring that sits before the spring and the hopup chamber to add a better seal

 

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Guest greg93

As far as the r-hop goes, its a great investment and it really eliminates the need for a tightbore. Hunterseeker now has a new r-hop called the z-hop (stands for "easy hop" since he sends you a selection of pre-cut r-hops) its pretty easy to install, but you will need an exacto knife to cut the correct length. Just a word of advice, even on the lowest setting, my .28 bbs were getting a bit overhopped so you may want to consider .30 for your gun. That was in a gun shooting 410 fps (more velocity = faster spin and therefore more "hop" in the bb flight) so I guess if your gun is shooting around 350 then you should be ok with .28bbs.

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Ahhhh... so it really does benefit me to upgrade to heavier pellets. The guys I'm playing with seem knowledgable... some too much so... and I've been told to NEVER use bb's over 0.25 because they drop too much and slows the velocity down terribly. It seemed to me that you wanted heavier bb's the further your shots were, so this makes sense to me. I'm amazed how accurate this gun is at 100 feet right now... would love to reach out 200 feet or so and give someone some lovin' :-)

 

The or-ring now makes perfect sense. So--remove the barrel, place the o-rings and slide it back in. The o-rings press against the hop-up assembly and outer barrel keeping the hop-up pressed against the gear assembly. Sort-of the same thing I'm doing from the back with foam/tape, but also doing it at the hop-up. What size o-rings do you recommend (to fit over the barrel)? Also, if I'm thinking correctly, this will also place more tension on the gray "locking" pin for the barrel assembly.

 

As I shot more today and problem seemed to lessen. However, I did pull out a few chopped bb particles here-and-there. Once again--only after firing on full-auto for 5 or more seconds.

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Ahhhh... so it really does benefit me to upgrade to heavier pellets. The guys I'm playing with seem knowledgable... some too much so... and I've been told to NEVER use bb's over 0.25 because they drop too much and slows the velocity down terribly. It seemed to me that you wanted heavier bb's the further your shots were, so this makes sense to me. I'm amazed how accurate this gun is at 100 feet right now... would love to reach out 200 feet or so and give someone some lovin' :-) Add an authentic Hs5 Rhop (thread on this forum) and use .32 or higher BBs. Show your friends the data on the airsoft trajectory project. (easy to find with google) Heavier bbs will go farther than lighter ones and after about 50-70 feet will actually be moving faster than lighter ones as well. Remember, these weights of BBs were invented in Japan where everyone is restricted to 1J.

 

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Guest greg93
Ahhhh... so it really does benefit me to upgrade to heavier pellets. The guys I'm playing with seem knowledgable... some too much so... and I've been told to NEVER use bb's over 0.25 because they drop too much and slows the velocity down terribly. It seemed to me that you wanted heavier bb's the further your shots were, so this makes sense to me. I'm amazed how accurate this gun is at 100 feet right now... would love to reach out 200 feet or so and give someone some lovin' :-)

Using .30g bbs may result in a slower muzzle velocity, but they keep their kinetic energy (joules) for a longer period of time. Basically, If two identical guns were fired in the same direction, and one was using .20g bbs and the other was using .40g bbs, the .20g bb would come out of the barrel faster, but after about 110 ft the .40 would pass it off, be traveling at a higher velocity, be less resistant to wind, have most of its energy, and would hit harder. Also, remember that an object traveling faster has more air resistance working against it, so it will lose most of its energy quicker. I'm not saying that you should only use .40g bbs, because that gets expensive real quick, but I would suggest some good .30 or .32 if you want to have the upper hand in mid-long range combat.

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Anachro--

 

I'm writing for no other reason than to say I love your quote! For me it's a bit different... I have a daughter nearing the dating age. I just realized how*perfect* airsoft guns can be. A non-lethal, but VERY painful, deterrent!

 

Greg--makes perfect sense to me. I guess I caught the "fps" bug from the guys I have been playing with. In the end, fps, rof and everything else matters little if you're nailing the guys you're aiming at. My big disadvantage is they have been playing this field for years, have lots of experience under their belt, and I'm just a newbie. By bringing the heat I hope to level the playing field a bit, and it sounds like more accurate bb's would be of significant benefit.

 

In short, the guys are being completely immature by calling my gun "junk" for no other reason than I didn't buy it from the dealer who plays with us. Being the infinitely more wise and mature person that I am, I realize that you have to fight fire with fire. Thus, I will be completely immature and try to outdo their experience with superior firepower!!!!!!! :-)

Edited by JonathanEngr

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Just got my G&G F2000 Hunter long barrel (Black) and I love it, it looks totally amazing!!! (I loved the gun ever since I first saw it in Splinter Cell)

 

I also have a Classic Army G36C blowback AEG.

 

Regarding, f2k, I got a firefox 11.1v 1100mAh Lipo with it. I fired like 50 shots with the lipo in it too!

Read a lot about mosfets and trigger burns with high voltage lipos, so I ordered a Gate MERF 3.2 Mosfet + Burst controller and 16WG silver plated copper wiring + deans connectors for it.

 

I'm keeping the gun grounded till my mosfets arrive to prevent further damage to trigger.

 

Btw Can I use dielectric grease on the trigger contacts to prevent arcing till it actually touches the contact? I think it'll work

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