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Wowjunkie25

RoF increase? (Slight)

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I am brand new to Airsoft and I only play CQB. My first gun is a JG MK36c, it is the version with the crane stock and the M4 mag well. Everything on it is stock still. However I have played twice and I know what I would like my gun to do differently.

 

I would like a slightly higher RoF. possibly from 14-15 Rps to 18-20 Rps.

 

I was thinking I could acheive this is multiple ways.

 

First: Short Stroking the Piston and Sector gear. (I have done my research on this and it seems fairly straight forward.)

Second: Now that my gun is short stroked (Properly), I have a slightly higher RoF, but now a lower FPS.

SOOOOOO I was going to upgrade my spring. Keeping it within my CQB limits (360 FPS)

Third: I would like to place Deans on my Gun and Battery and Charger. From my research this should upgrade my RoF by about 2 Rps (average).

(Also a more responsive trigger)

 

Last: If my FPS is below 360, I would like to upgrade my stock 6.08 Barrel (247mm) to a 6.04 or 6.03.

 

I need the opinion of an well rounded Airsoft Techy on this. I work on RC Helicopters and RC Cars, but Never on Airsoft Guns.

Do you think these steps would possibly get me the desired outcome?

 

Please no off-topic answers, and thank you all so much for your input!

 

-David

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Well, first off... what is your battery? upgrade to a 9.6v, or even an 11.1v lipo if you do some reinforcements.

 

Second, short stroking... does your piston only have one metal tooth? if so, it would be really tricky and not so reliable to short stroke. invest in a piston with 3, 5, 7, or even full metal teeth and just dremel off the desired amount of teeth from both piston and first portion of sector gear.

 

As for the whole fps issue, if you know your current fps, then short stroking loses about 10fps per tooth, so you can use your current spring, just try to achieve perfect air seal. it is much healthier for the gun if you have perfect air seal with a lower spring, rather than a super-high-power spring with not-so-good air seal. just judge the spring after you get the air seal.

 

Deans is always a good choice, and I do it with all of my guns. just make sure that the female end is on the battery (which you most likely already know from your RC experience).

 

If you are only doing CQB with this gun, then there is no need for a tighter bore barrel, unless your CQB arena has massive hallways/open areas...

 

-Just follow the pinned "budget high speed guide" in Upgrades & Modifications.- it has pretty much everything you will need.

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I have a 9.6 1600 mAh Intellect.

 

Also what do you think about putting on deans first, seeing how the gun shoots. Then short stroke, see how the gun preforms. and finally swiss cheese the piston to possibly get the FPS back up to what it was.

 

Oh and your were correct, my piston only has one metal tooth. What is a good budget brand of Piston that I can purchase with half or full metal teeth? Also is E Hobby Asia a reliable site? Their stuff seems to be pretty cheap, with name brands.

 

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Short stroking and swiss cheesing will not raise your ROF. They are measures to be taken when your ROF is too high, like in the 30's and above. You will see no benifit from doing that.

 

For 360 fps, drop in a M110 spring.

Switch to deans and low resistance wire and see what happens. On a 9.6v, you should be able to achieve close to 20rps.

 

If after doing that, you still don't achieve the 20 rps, then purchase a neo magnet high speed motor such as SHS, Element, etc.

 

There is no need to replace the stock piston. It will hold up fine at 360fps and 20rps. Just make sure you correct Angle of Engagement.

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more like between the trigger contacts and the battery. Google mosfet installation or something like that and there's a video on how to install one. But it depends what kind of mosfet you buy.

 

Nice screen name btw.

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LOVE THE IDEA!!!!

 

Budget friendly and simple! Does the FET go between the trigger and the motor?

 

There are tutorials on this website that explain all there is to know about mosfets and they're not hard to find - I don't want to sound like a dink, your OP is good, but we try to refrain from spoon-feeding information, a little googleing, and forum searching goes a long way here once we know you're willing enough to do some homework on your end first.

 

As per your OP:

 

1: Short stroking to gain RPS is a myth I wish I could kill with fire - it simply allows a higher maximum rate of fire, nothing more. Rate of fire is dependent on Sector Gear rotational speed.

 

2: If your gun is within field limits now, don't touch the spring, it will be fine.

 

3: Deans + Low resistance wiring is always the first thing I replace on an AEG; the stock wiring is god-awful and as with the myth of short stoking to gain rof, should be purged with fire. Since you know about RC applications, you should know where to pick up nicer 16AWG silicone wiring - highly recommend it as it alone will give you a boost.

 

As for some extras:

1: If you're looking to get a new battery, consider having a battery made out of Elite NiMh cells at cheapbatterypacks.com, or eliteairsoftbatteries.com where they are sold for a semi-decent price. I for one am a fan of the Mosfet + 11.1v LiPo approach, but it does usually require gearbox work to make the gun capable of sustained 11.1v use(ie: over 10k rounds without breaking something)

 

2: Mosfets - Look on the forums, the material you need is everywhere, so it should not be terribly hard to find. Get or build a mosfet if you want to use an 11.1v Battery - that alone even on your stock setup will give you the ROF you need and your gun, if a latest generation, should last plenty long enough on it, and once it breaks, you get the oh-so-fun project of a complete overhaul to insane performance! >:]

 

3: If you go LiPo, get an 11.1v with 20c or higher discharge, a 7.4v will perform between an 8.4v and 9.6v NiMh and won't give you a huge burst in speed, 11.1 however, jumps your rate of fire quite noticeably.

Edited by Jerichow

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Technically it can increase your RoF slightly since it shortens the draw of the piston rack (and therefore releases in less time), but in real-life scenarios the change is normally miniscule, and whether or not it will even be noticeable depends more on the motor's torque curve and power usage characteristics than anything else. The "budget high speed" thread is an interesting case where at very low power levels, his motor benefitted substantially from the slightly-lessened load of a lighter piston with a shorter stroke. This is not a typical result, especially once you move away from pathetic stock batteries and stock motors that have virtually no torque.

 

What's interesting is that if he wanted to compensate for his lost fps with a heavier spring, it's likely that he would have actually lost ground, since the lessened volume of the stroke combined with a relatively equal (perhaps greater) work load from the new spring would be less efficient than leaving things stock - unless perhaps he was working with a shorter barrel... Even so, it's not a good strategy.

 

In general though, Jeri is right - short-stroking just gives protection from pre-engagement, and therefore a higher potential RoF ceiling, and rarely will it actually end up noticeably increasing your ROF.

 

 

Battery is in 99% of cases the first and best upgrade - it is the foundation of all upgrades relating to gearbox performance.

Edited by buppus

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okay, so maybe short stroking isn't the BEST option, but you should still get that perfect air seal. I believe there is a guide on ASF for perfect air seal. If you need better parts, go with SHS. In my mind, they have the best quality for the price. SHS torque motor, possibly 16:1 gears, whatever compression parts you need for the seal, and just judge the spring from that. it should be in the M100/M110 area. You should be able to get all of those parts from Major9labs.com. And swiss cheesing isn't always a bad option either, if you do it right. I believe there is a video somewhere on that. check youtube.

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I run a SHS high speed motor with a m100 Prometheus spring and 9.6v battery wired to deans and get 23 rps. As soon as I get shims and lube I can tune the gear box, and maybe squeeze another 0.5-1 extra rps out of it.

EDIT: Forgot, I don't have a chrono and haven't been to any games recently, but I guess its around 320-340 FPS. As apposed to modifying more heavily on the piston and gears, you could just run a similar upgrade setup. But if you can afford better parts, I would spend the extra money. I personally am not a big fan of grinding things because it is rather irreparable, and I don't have much money to spend. If you have more experience, then go ahead. But I would simply upgrade for now.

Edited by Crysalisx

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I get 24rps with standard ratio gears and an M120 with a KA infinite torque up motor with a 7.4v li-po. With a 9.6v ni-mh it would get around 30rps.

 

I don't see that much point in high speed motors anymore, seems like most eno high torque motors will keep up with a high speed motor anyway.

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