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Airsoft as a replacement for Simunitions

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All,

 

I'm looking for the collective hive mind here to help me out.

 

My department recently spent $2,500 on Simunitions. This will get us about 6 months worth of training, and then we're going to need to rebuy. This is for patrol and CID only, doesn't include any of the training that SWAT and the Jail do, as they buy their own stuff.

 

We're looking to either supplement or replace these god-awful expensive sim guns. From what I remember from my early 20's, we want gas guns. At a minimum, we need to purchase the following:

 

(8) Glock pistols. We don't care about trademarks or any of that, just on form and function. Ideally, they will be the same size as a G17/G22, so they fit in our holsters. We need the most reliable possible, with function being identical to the actual pistols.

 

(4) AR-15 style rifles, with carry handle sights and fixed front sight. Again, reliability is the key here. Full auto is unnecessary, and we would prefer a gas gun that cycles a bolt as opposed to an electric.

 

(6) Aggressor weapons. It doesn't matter what these are, figure 4 pistols and 2 rifles. Reliability and function are key. In an ideal world, they would replicate what the bad guys around here would carry, but as I don't think there's a market for airsoft versions of Jennings and HighPoint, whatever will work.

 

Accuracy needs to be on par with our sim guns (meaning accurate out to about a hundred feet or so). These are mainly used for building clearing and building search exercises, as that's 98% of what we do. They need to hit hard enough that we can feel it. Also, they need to be easy enough to fix that our gunsmith can fix it if they have issues.

 

Thanks.

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Guest alberty

I'm sorry to say, but I don't think you can get those factors together--hard hitting and "easy to fix" usually don't go together, although it's not as hard on gas-powered replicas. I say "not as hard" when you compare gas-powered replicas to AEGs (electrics), but there's definitely some learning to do for airsoft-smithing, and care needs to be taken as these are fragile compared to real steel.

 

As for hard hitting, you can get some gas-powered replica rifles to shoot at a muzzle velocity similar to simunition's muzzle velocity, but these are still fairly small and fairly light projectiles (6mm plastic pellets going less than about 500-700 feet per second). Most rifle replicas only shoot around 380-400 feet per second out of the box. Most pistol replicas are around 300-330 feet per second out of box, and most SMGs are anywhere between 300-380 feet per second. Yes, there are some aftermarket upgrades available to increase the muzzle velocity.

 

If you're wearing your armor and vests, I think it will be hard or near-impossible for you to feel the hits unless hit in a less-covered part of the body, and these don't leave clearly-visible marks like simunition or paintballs do. I believe simunition has a higher muzzle velocity and also leaves a visible paint mark. The lower muzzle velocities (without upgrades) and lack of hit indicator is what can add some difficulty to your training, especially in a fast-paced situation like room clearing and breaching in which you need to know right away if you hit a target or not.

 

Range-wise, airsoft replicas will do you shoot far enough in the close quarters training.

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For a pistol, check out the KWA ATP. I quote the following from a review and I will link it as well. You should read the whole thing.

 

As a training pistol I think this gun is as close as we’re going to get to a Glock for a while to come. With the ability to fit holsters built for Glocks, as well as featuring interchangeable grip panels, and have a similar contour to the grip that generation 4 Glocks have, I think this would work well as a training tool.

 

http://infectedairsoft.wordpress.com/reviews/kwa-atp/

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Guest alberty
For a pistol, check out the KWA ATP. I quote the following from a review and I will link it as well. You should read the whole thing.

 

As a training pistol I think this gun is as close as we’re going to get to a Glock for a while to come. With the ability to fit holsters built for Glocks, as well as featuring interchangeable grip panels, and have a similar contour to the grip that generation 4 Glocks have, I think this would work well as a training tool.

 

http://infectedairsoft.wordpress.com/reviews/kwa-atp/

This user brings up a good point about airsoft Glock replicas. The actual Glock company does not seem to approve of Glock replicas and therefore the best brands of Glock replicas in terms of performance and accuracy in reproduction, TM and KSC/KWA, are not easily obtainable from popular US-based airsoft retailers anymore. That's why KWA released the ATP as an alternative, to the Glock 17 and 18 series, which does not violate Glock intellectual property but fits existing airsoft Glock mags and fits Glock-specific holsters and stuff.

 

However, if you look at a few retailers you might still find KSC Glock replicas, and additionally WE has a G17 and G18 replica recently but WE is okay, not usually on the same tier as TM or KSC/KWA for gas pistol quality.

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Responders, please keep in mind that this is a LEO Professional. And all buying will be done almost in a Bulk nature. They will also want the products to be supportable with little to no down time. Please keep recommendations to Brands that you know will hold up to the requirements of LEO training, as well as offering the realism necessary to fit the role.

 

Gas guns can get the job done. As will AEG's. KWA has a Training line of weapons nearing release that will cover your needs adequately. They are 1:1 and also have a Recoil system to add to the realism factor. As a company, they also have great support for their products. As for hitting hard, I am sure you mean, Hard enough to be felt? Most Airsoft guns will be adequate for training purposes.

 

No matter what you decide on, it will be a bargain compared to simunition cost. As mentioned above, there is a little more to buying and using them. They have moderate failure rates, and require experienced Techs to keep them running non stop.

 

KWA America

Spartan Imports

Jag Precision

 

Those are the places I would call for information on supply.

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Contact Airsoft Extreme. I purchased several KWA Glocks, and several Classic Army M4 CQB replicas from them a few years ago for my departmental training.

 

Most stock replica's run between 350 FPS and 400 FPS, which will give you plenty of feel for the closer ranges.

 

PM me and we'll talk shop out of the public eye...

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Guest alberty

Good points everyone. I did not mean to try to discourage the OP from using airsoft as a training tool, but I was trying to inform him or her that there's a difference between using airsoft replicas and using real weapons + simunition in terms of how to use the equipment and maintain them. But yes, airsoft replicas would save you money compared to constantly rebuying simunition.

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